Routes that should have never moved or stayed

[JeremiahC99]

28 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

It never made sense having the B45 out of ENY and the B65 out of Gleason though, especially when the Crown Heights end is closer to ENY than the western end (Columbia Street first, Fulton Mall later) is to Gleason. That was a wise route transfer. As for the B51, that route, had it stayed, would have belonged best in Manhattan Division (Quill) extended to Battery Park City...the deadhead being up the West Side Highway with a 35 mph speed limit.

Now, as for Grand Avenue, one solution that should be done is to control the bridge with a traffic light, where it remains green each way for 45 seconds apiece with an 8 second red. The problem is that there aren't too many industrial zones where one can place a garage...and the site used to be a graveyard for retired buses.

If MTA Bus and NYCT have their boundaries eliminated completely, Grand Avenue would make a lot more sense as there are a lot of routes that could transition to Grand.

A traffic light at the bridge would be nice (make it a transit signal priority controlled one please), but wouldn't a better option be to replace the bridge with a modern and wider one. From what I see on the map (I've never been to the area due to lack of time and interest), at 47th Street, Grand narrows from one very wide lane in each direction with parking on both sides, to two very narrow lanes on the bridge. During the week, it is typically a bottleneck that slows travel down on the entire corridor. Maybe they can build a new bridge that is the same width as the road on either side of it , and would eliminate the bottleneck caused by the narrowing of the road on either side of the bridge. New modern walkways would also be added as well. The bridge should also have the NYS mandated clearance height of 14 feet.

Also, why did they build a new depot in Maspeth Queens, when all they could've done was rebuild the old Crosstown Depot in Greenpoint to modern standards for bus engineering instead? Its much closer to the Brooklyn routes that serve the area and it would improve the deadhead times of some routes (the B43's north terminal is one block away from the depot).

[aemoreira81]

2 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

A traffic light at the bridge would be nice (make it a transit signal priority controlled one please), but wouldn't a better option be to replace the bridge with a modern and wider one. From what I see on the map (I've never been to the area due to lack of time and interest), at 47th Street, Grand narrows from one very wide lane in each direction with parking on both sides, to two very narrow lanes on the bridge. During the week, it is typically a bottleneck that slows travel down on the entire corridor. Maybe they can build a new bridge that is the same width as the road on either side of it , and would eliminate the bottleneck caused by the narrowing of the road on either side of the bridge. New modern walkways would also be added as well. The bridge should also have the NYS mandated clearance height of 14 feet.

Also, why did they build a new depot in Maspeth Queens, when all they could've done was rebuild the old Crosstown Depot in Greenpoint to modern standards for bus engineering instead? Its much closer to the Brooklyn routes that serve the area and it would improve the deadhead times of some routes (the B43's north terminal is one block away from the depot).

Crosstown as a garage closed around 1981, and the space there isn't nearly as big as the Grand Avenue footprint is.

[JeremiahC99]

28 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

Crosstown as a garage closed around 1981, and the space there isn't nearly as big as the Grand Avenue footprint is.

Even if they built upward (adding another floor) or expanded onto the empty lot to the west of it?

[B35 via Church]

15 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Everytime I look into this thread, I see that most of y'all are Complaining that Grand Avenue is the Source of Unreliability for Most routes on here. (the only ones I'm aware of that come out of that Depot are the Q58, Q59, and B38). Could it be that the location of Grand Avenue Depot was poorly placed?

That's not what's being said....

 

14 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

It never made sense having the B45 out of ENY and the B65 out of Gleason though, especially when the Crown Heights end is closer to ENY than the western end (Columbia Street first, Fulton Mall later) is to Gleason. That was a wise route transfer. As for the B51, that route, had it stayed, would have belonged best in Manhattan Division (Quill) extended to Battery Park City...the deadhead being up the West Side Highway with a 35 mph speed limit.

Now, as for Grand Avenue, one solution that should be done is to control the bridge with a traffic light, where it remains green each way for 45 seconds apiece with an 8 second red. The problem is that there aren't too many industrial zones where one can place a garage...and the site used to be a graveyard for retired buses.

- To have had the B51 extended to BPC for the purpose of running it out of MJQ would be plain old silly....

- Trying to control traffic on the Grand st. bridge with a traffic light would be just as ineffective as the old practice of having a traffic cop (on both ends of the bridge) directing/"controlling" traffic, many moons ago.... The fact of the matter is that commuter traffic on that bridge has skyrocketed over the course of decades, right along with more industrial vehicles transporting freight across it as well.... Regardless of making things easier for the Q59 & other buses that use it to DH to/from Grand st depot, a new (wider) bridge needs to be built.... Period.

 

17 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

If MTA Bus and NYCT have their boundaries eliminated completely, Grand Avenue would make a lot more sense as there are a lot of routes that could transition to Grand.

Yes, Queens routes.... Agreed.

13 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Also, why did they build a new depot in Maspeth Queens, when all they could've done was rebuild the old Crosstown Depot in Greenpoint to modern standards for bus engineering instead? Its much closer to the Brooklyn routes that serve the area and it would improve the deadhead times of some routes (the B43's north terminal is one block away from the depot).

There's been plans in the works to revitalize Greenpoint before Grand av. depot was constructed... Thing of it is, the immediate focus in north Brooklyn around that time was (of course) Williamsburg..... Now you're going to start hearing more & more about Greenpoint in next couple years... It's going to be Brooklyn's version of Hunters Point South (Center blvd. area)... These developers....are...not...playing.

You may not be privy to it, but there's a whole entire project called Greenpoint Landing that pretty much does away with any re-opening of the old Crosstown depot.... IINM, they already finished constructing 2 of those towers in Greenpoint along Commercial av.... Coupled with the Box street Park project, you can definitely say arrivederci, sayonara,  adios, see you at the crossroads to any hopes of re-opening the old Crosstown Depot.

[LGA Link N Train]

25 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

That's not what's being said....

- Trying to control traffic on the Grand st. bridge with a traffic light would be just as ineffective as the old practice of having a traffic cop (on both ends of the bridge) directing/"controlling" traffic, many moons ago.... The fact of the matter is that commuter traffic on that bridge has skyrocketed over the course of decades, right along with more industrial vehicles transporting freight across it as well.... Regardless of making things easier for the Q59 & other buses that use it to DH to/from Grand st depot, a new (wider) bridge needs to be built.... Period.

Welp, looks like I misinterpreted what was being said. 

I do have to agree with you on the part of the Bridge at Gand Avenue. I’ve ridden the Q59 on an Occasional Basis, and boy that Bridges looks like it’s unable to handle the traffic that it does today. If anything, I think that area between Queens and Brooklyn should get a few infrastructure upgrades while remaining Industrial! 

[aemoreira81]

That Grand Street (Avenue) Bridge was built in 1901/2. There are hardly any bridges that old on non-arterials (that aren't suspension bridges). The Vernon Avenue Bridge (that connected Vernon Avenue, now Boulevard, with Manhattan Avenue, is long gone, as is the former Meeker Avenue Bridge and its original Koscuiszko Bridge replacement. That bridge is almost 120 years old. Why has no money been budgeted toward a replacement?

In the interim, would it be a bad idea to make Grand Avenue a one-way street west-bound through the area? I would say westbound from 47 to Metro.

 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

That Grand Street (Avenue) Bridge was built in 1901/2. There are hardly any bridges that old on non-arterials (that aren't suspension bridges). The Vernon Avenue Bridge (that connected Vernon Avenue, now Boulevard, with Manhattan Avenue, is long gone, as is the former Meeker Avenue Bridge and its original Koscuiszko Bridge replacement. That bridge is almost 120 years old. Why has no money been budgeted toward a replacement?

In the interim, would it be a bad idea to make Grand Avenue a one-way street west-bound through the area? I would say westbound from 47 to Metro.

Funds actually were allocated towards a replacement - except it eventually went towards the new Kosciuszko Bridge....

As for your suggestion... While it's not the worst idea in the world, I wouldn't have all traffic over the bridge to that of being one way.... I would however, restrict (or otherwise have) commercial vehicles traveling EB doing the whole Met > Flushing > Rust bit until/whenever they get around to building a new bridge.... Basically, any EB traffic going over the bridge would be cars (and motorcycles) only.....

[Future ENY OP]

On 2/16/2019 at 8:01 PM, aemoreira81 said:

It never made sense having the B45 out of ENY and the B65 out of Gleason though, especially when the Crown Heights end is closer to ENY than the western end (Columbia Street first, Fulton Mall later) is to Gleason. That was a wise route transfer.

As for the B51, that route, had it stayed, would have belonged best in Manhattan Division (Quill) extended to Battery Park City...the deadhead being up the West Side Highway with a 35 mph speed limit.

 

As for the B51: The logical sense to have it is at Gleason. Why Quill? (I’m confused). 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

As for the B51: The logical sense to have it is at Gleason. Why Quill? (I’m confused). 

......

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:01 PM, aemoreira81 said:

...the deadhead being up the West Side Highway with a 35 mph speed limit.

(the back end of) MJQ is along the West Side Hwy.

[Future ENY OP]

52 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

......

(the back end of) MJQ is along the West Side Hwy.

..... dead on arrival. Like seriously. A deadhead from Battery Park City to Brooklyn via the Westside.. Downtown Manhattan needs another garage. All this MJQ deadheading is getting out of hand.  

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

..... dead on arrival. Like seriously. A deadhead from Battery Park City to Brooklyn via the Westside.. Downtown Manhattan needs another garage. All this MJQ deadheading is getting out of hand.  

I still find it asinine though to want to extend a route for the purpose of it running out of another depot....

It's like saying the B69 should run up to Williamsburg so that it can run out of Grand.... Or, to have one of the SI-Brooklyn local routes run up to 59th st. subway so that it can run out of JG....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I still find it asinine though to want to extend a route for the purpose of it running out of another depot....

It's like saying the B69 should run up to Williamsburg so that it can run out of Grand.... Or, to have one of the SI-Brooklyn local routes run up to 59th st. subway so that it can run out of JG....

Hmm, that sounds rather familiar.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:58 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Downtown Manhattan needs another garage. All this MJQ deadheading is getting out of hand.  

agreed. regardless of the reasoning (which i am fully aware of) I've been of a belief that the 2 biggest "mistakes" MaBSTOA has made was closing both Walnut & Hudson Pier Depots. the bronx shouldn't have west farms deadheading runs everywhere and ditto for Quill in Manhattan, as you pointed out.

[Just New York]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:58 PM, Future ENY OP said:

..... dead on arrival. Like seriously. A deadhead from Battery Park City to Brooklyn via the Westside.. Downtown Manhattan needs another garage. All this MJQ deadheading is getting out of hand.  

They could have bought some of the old factory around Hudson to replace it. MJQ does it's best but lower Manhattan is a nightmare Mainly getting to LES.

[JFK Depot]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:28 PM, EastFlatbushLarry said:

agreed. regardless of the reasoning (which i am fully aware of) I've been of a belief that the 2 biggest "mistakes" MaBSTOA has made was closing both Walnut & Hudson Pier Depots. the bronx shouldn't have west farms deadheading runs everywhere and ditto for Quill in Manhattan, as you pointed out.

Big Big Mistakes for closing Walnut and Hudson and let me add this one to the list as well.. Amsterdam  

Hudson will help BIG with lower Manhattan... Walnut with the South Bronx... and Amsterdam with Upper Manhattan 

Amsterdam and Hudson would help streamline Manhattan basically and Walnut would do the same for the Bronx 

 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

1 hour ago, JFK Depot said:

Big Big Mistakes for closing Walnut and Hudson and let me add this one to the list as well.. Amsterdam  

Hudson will help BIG with lower Manhattan... Walnut with the South Bronx... and Amsterdam with Upper Manhattan 

Amsterdam and Hudson would help streamline Manhattan basically and Walnut would do the same for the Bronx 

 

the Amsterdam theory i can subscribe to as well. in it's heyday, they found a way to run several lines out of that building. I felt it could potentially serve a purpose at minimum for the 104 & the 11, yet in all honesty, I'm not as opposed to the museum buses being housed there as others may be. i feel as if 146 (Clara Hale) is under utilized (for reasons I'm aware of) and THAT is where some of the uptown troubles stem from. people may or may not remember what ran out of Hale prior to the rebuild. the bx33 for example (which has no business being at WF, by the way) 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Turn the Spring Creek Depot back a Brooklyn Depot which should be obvious.

[I Run Trains]

The Bx32 Should Be Back at KB!