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Via Garibaldi 8

Full 14th St Shutdown Cancelled

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Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

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Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo plans to announce that the L train subway tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn will not fully shut down in April as planned.CreditCreditHiroko Masuike/The New York Times

By Emma G. Fitzsimmons and Shane Goldmacher

Jan. 3, 2019

[What you need to know to start the day: Get New York Today in your inbox.]

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Thursday that the L train subway tunnel would not fully shut down in April as planned in what would have been one of the biggest transit disruptions in New York City’s recent history.

The L train shutdown was scheduled to begin April 27 and last 15 months, crippling a key piece of the city’s transportation network. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the subway, had said the closing was necessary to repair damage from Hurricane Sandy in 2012, when the tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn was inundated by floodwaters.

Under a new plan unveiled by Mr. Cuomo the work would be done on nights and weekends. He said not fulling closing the L train would be a “phenomenal benefit to the people of New York City.’’

It was not yet clear what alternatives the M.T.A. would choose. The authority, for example, could choose to do the work on nights and weekends.

For months, subway officials have been preparing for the closing and planning alternate routes for commuters to reach Manhattan, which have included a significant expansion of bus service and adding bike lanes. When the shutdown was announced in 2016, the news prompted panic in Brooklyn over what it meant for real estate and local businesses to be choked off from Manhattan.

Last month, Mr. Cuomo, who controls the subway, toured the L train tunnel with engineering experts to see if there was another way to undertake the repair work.

“If there’s a better way of doing it, they tell us there’s a better way of doing it,” Mr. Cuomo said at the time. “If there’s not a better way of doing it, they say that’s the best that it can be done.”

The transit agency initially said the shutdown would be 18 months and later shortened it to 15 months. Subway officials had considered two proposals — a shorter, full closing of the tunnel or a partial three-year shutdown that would have allowed some trains to continue running.

They chose the full closure in an effort to do it quickly and limit the inconvenience for riders.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/l-train-shutdown.html?fbclid=IwAR1RppSzDHjJbP08mtXg5ZTN71eSlCktY5EOO6YpDIMquu19ODz3k_x3kVM

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Another transit decision that will spread many years of pain for those living along the line. They can live with it. This is one of those decisions where other people are not screwed over by their stupidity.

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1 minute ago, CenSin said:

Another transit decision that will spread many years of pain for those living along the line. They can live with it. This is one of those decisions where other people are not screwed over by their stupidity.

The mta went and decided for the full closure of the shutdown because they said it was the most efficient and faster way than what Cuomo wants. This really is just a bad idea. All because Cuomo doesn’t want to hurt those darn hipsters who have to get up an extra 30 minutes for over a year. 

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4 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Another transit decision that will spread many years of pain for those living along the line. They can live with it. This is one of those decisions where other people are not screwed over by their stupidity.

Well, people in an around my area do use the bus to catch the (L) , so this will impact my community as well, unfortunately. After we dealt with the (M) Train shutdown, we would just like for the process to be completed ASAP. I'm going to try and contact my representatives to see what they have to say.

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1 minute ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Well, people in an around my area do use the bus to catch the (L) , so this will impact my community as well, unfortunately. After we dealt with the (M) Train shutdown, we would just like for the process to be completed ASAP. I'm going to try and contact my representatives to see what they have to say.

The problem with the (MTA) is they cannot be trusted to finish projects on-time and on budget. You should definitely contact them and see where they stand on the issue at a minimum.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The problem with the (MTA) is they cannot be trusted to finish projects on-time and on budget. You should definitely contact them and see where they stand on the issue at a minimum.

Yes but here's the thing.

 

1 1/4 of a year to repair the (L) with a bit of overtime vs a governor that throws this away to go with a plan that could take 5-10 years to be fully fixed.

 

By the way anyone realize the plan Cuomo is going with is basically plan 2 but with no split (L) full time?

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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A knee jerk reaction by the "beloved" governor. So he wants to milk this out for years instead of a year and a half??

Who voted for this guy?

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10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The problem with the (MTA) is they cannot be trusted to finish projects on-time and on budget. You should definitely contact them and see where they stand on the issue at a minimum.

That's true (about projects). The 15 month shutdown would have been the faster option, even if it theoretically went over 15 months. 

3 minutes ago, go25 said:

A knee jerk reaction by the "beloved" governor. So he wants to milk this out for years instead of a year and a half??

Who voted for this guy?

Good question. Not me.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Yes but here's the thing.

 

1 1/4 of a year to repair the (L) with a bit of overtime vs a governor that throws this away to go with a plan that could take 5-10 years to be fully fixed.

 

By the way anyone realize the plan Cuomo is going with is basically plan 2 but with no split (L) full time?

We don't know how long this will take until the work starts. I worked on the insurance side of things, and I can tell you right now that with all of the contractors involved, any little thing can hold up a project, and given what "surprises" tend to hide behind walls once you start opening them up, that 1 1/4 year timeline can easily change. A few change orders and before you know it suddenly, you've added months or years and added costs to the project.  This from someone who has visited various work sites and saw the problems first hand. The goal of such a project is always to have a minimal impact on the parties affected, and if this provides that then it should be looked at. I'm involved in a lot of these meetings for work. The people that aren't impacted and don't have to live with this can say oh the full shutdown should happen. They have no idea how their quality of life suffers.  Transportation is often overlooked, but it often times means that people MOVE away when they have to endure longer commutes and often costlier ones. Either you lose time with your family or lose time making money but you lose somewhere.

Hell I've had projects delayed because a contractor didn't have the proper insurance. Subcontractors don't like spending money on insurance so they will try all sorts of shady things to "comply" without fully complying.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

The mta went and decided for the full closure of the shutdown because they said it was the most efficient and faster way than what Cuomo wants. This really is just a bad idea. All because Cuomo doesn’t want to hurt those darn hipsters who have to get up an extra 30 minutes for over a year. 

I agree. Why did he wait until now to stop the shutdown? A real wise guy would have been on top of the tunnel project SINCE 2016. The fact that he waited 2 years is just horrendous!!!!!

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7 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I agree. Why did he wait until now to stop the shutdown? A real wise guy would have been on top of the tunnel project SINCE 2016. The fact that he waited 2 years is just horrendous!!!!!

Lots of reasons... Things happen. Part of it I suspect may be so that he looks good... 

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Lots of reasons... Things happen. Part of it I suspect may be so that he looks good... 

If he wanted to look good, then he would've been involved in the project since the beginning, not intervening at the last minute. That is what a real wise governor would do. 

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Posted (edited)

“It represents a huge win for our transit system and our customers and for that we can all be thankful,” said Acting MTA Commissioner Fernando Ferrer. The entire process may take as long as 20 months, without any service closing expected."

-Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-03/new-york-city-s-l-train-won-t-shut-down-during-work-cuomo-says

If it actually can be done in 20 months or less (which is obviously a huge if), then the plan wouldn't be thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat bad. It seems that the plan involves a different kind of engineering work rather than demolishing the entire duct bank like the original 15/36 month plan would've entailed, so I think we should all hold judgement until we learn more.

Though it sounds like Cuomo jumped shipped without even bothering to figure out the full details of the plan...

Edited by YankeesPwnMets
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

If he wanted to look good, then he would've been involved in the project since the beginning, not intervening at the last minute. That is what a real wise governor would do. 

He's been in the background.  I think his decision to step in now was due to this becoming messier by the day.  Avoiding a full shutdown takes some pressure off of the (MTA) .  Several groups have been trying to stop this with lawsuits and the works needs to be done.  Having the (MTA) tied up with lawsuits that could last for years and having this project delayed further is just bad PR, and ultimately if the work can be done without a full shutdown and not ongoing then this is the way that it should be done to provide some level of service.  Win win for all parties involved.

Don't get me wrong. Some of this is definitely political posturing. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He's been in the background.  I think his decision to step in now was due to this becoming messier by the day.  Avoiding a full shutdown takes some pressure off of the (MTA) .  Several groups have been trying to stop this with lawsuits and the works needs to be done.  Having the (MTA) tied up with lawsuits that could last for years and having this project delayed further is just bad PR, and ultimately if the work can be done without a full shutdown and not ongoing then this is the way that it should be done to provide some level of service.  Win win for all parties involved.

 

5 minutes ago, YankeesPwnMets said:

“It represents a huge win for our transit system and our customers and for that we can all be thankful,” said Acting MTA Commissioner Fernando Ferrer. The entire process may take as long as 20 months, without any service closing expected."

-Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-03/new-york-city-s-l-train-won-t-shut-down-during-work-cuomo-says

If it actually can be done in 20 months or less (which is obviously a huge if), then the plan wouldn't be thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat bad. It seems that the plan involves a different kind of engineering work rather than demolishing the entire duct bank like the original 15/36 month plan would've entailed, so I think we should all hold judgement until we learn more.

I just hope that they can make the deadline, perhaps do it even quicker, like in Montague (R). That's the million dollar question.

I wonder what they will do with the extra shuttle buses and the extra (G)(7)(J) / (Z) and (M) train service now?

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Just now, JeremiahC99 said:

 

I just hope that they can make the deadline, perhaps do it even quicker, like in Montague (R). That's the million dollar question.

I wonder what they will do with the extra shuttle buses and the extra (G)(7)(J) / (Z) and (M) train service now?

It's not as if a shutdown isn't happening. Just a scaled back one. They may still run that service to further appease (L) train riders. 

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Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's not as if a shutdown isn't happening. Just a scaled back one. They may still run that service to further appease (L) train riders. 

And what about the shuttle buses? Will they still run, especially since I saw 14th Street already painted with bus lanes when walking by last month?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And what about the shuttle buses? Will they still run, especially since I saw 14th Street already painted with bus lanes when walking by last month?

Why wouldn't they?  Everyone is going ape sh*t over nothing. The option being chosen was ALWAYS an option from the beginning.  It was this versus a FULL SHUTDOWN. They will still be shutting down one tunnel at a time to do the work, so it's just a partial shutdown versus a full shutdown. You still need shuttle buses and additional service.  They may also do both tunnels during nights and weekends, which would still be a full shutdown, just not 24/7. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Why wouldn't they?  Everyone is going ape sh*t over nothing. The option being chosen was ALWAYS an option from the beginning.  It was this versus a FULL SHUTDOWN. They will still be shutting down one tunnel at a time to do the work, so it's just a partial shutdown versus a full shutdown. You still need shuttle buses and additional service.  

Okay. Better close 14th Street as well. Manhattan could use some actually faster crosstown 14th Street bus service. And I hope this busway sticks around FOREVER!!!

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Just now, JeremiahC99 said:

Okay. Better close 14th Street as well. Manhattan could use some actually faster crosstown 14th Street bus service. And I hope this busway sticks around FOREVER!!!

lol SBS on the M14 will likely stick around. It would make sense for the (MTA) 's bottom line. Cheaper for them to run that and get new buses out of it and other goodies via federal funding.

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol SBS on the M14 will likely stick around. It would make sense for the (MTA) 's bottom line. Cheaper for them to run that and get new buses out of it and other goodies via federal funding.

Would it also make sense for the city to also put in HOV 3+ restrictions over the Williamsburg Bridge, so that traffic can speed up? That way we can encourage carpooling and the use of public transportation (whenever that gets fixed).

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1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Would it also make sense for the city to also put in HOV 3+ restrictions over the Williamsburg Bridge, so that traffic can speed up? That way we can encourage carpooling and the use of public transportation (whenever that gets fixed).

I believe that may be the plan, in addition to bus only lanes.

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Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I believe that may be the plan, in addition to bus only lanes.

It better stay forever as well, and I hope in the future, there would be similar restrictions over the other East River crossings, to relive the congestion and make the transportation better for New Yorker and visitors. We can't miss this opportunity to try something that can radically change the future of transportation in the greatest city in the world.

 

1 minute ago, BreeddekalbL said:

im heated he only did this to please the crying pissing and moaning in williamsburg!

Also to try to please voters for a 2020 Presidential bid, which I believe may not go well with NYC.

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So many unanswered questions - When will the new plan start? Does a new EIS - or amendment - have to be done? That would gum up the works. How do you cancel existing contracts? I predict massive lawsuits from the contractors. What about the ferry operators who stood to benefit? Will the 14th St. bus lanes still be modified? Will the improvements to stations and other infrastructure in anticipation of the shutdown be completed anyway? Will the G still get full-length trains? Doubtful, IMO. And most importantly, how can they know, after 2 weeks, that any of this is feasible? What happens if, in a month or so, the contractors advise them that none of this is doable, or if it is, at an unacceptable cost? 
 

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