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Via Garibaldi 8

Full 14th St Shutdown Cancelled

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2 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I feel that it was going to be like "Carmageddon" in LA when they closed the 405 for a few days and they thought it was going to be a congested nightmare and everything was "normal".

Yup. The first few days as people adjusted to the shuttle buses and alternate routes might have been rough, but as people fanned out across different alternatives, likely it would have just become a less-convenient, albeit new normal commute for the vast majority of (L) riders. 

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44 minutes ago, Enjineer said:

Yup. The first few days as people adjusted to the shuttle buses and alternate routes might have been rough, but as people fanned out across different alternatives, likely it would have just become a less-convenient, albeit new normal commute for the vast majority of (L) riders. 

The way things like this pan out, day one is usually swimmingly smooth. Then day two or three becomes a shitshow because people are like "why did I make alternate plans when day one was all good?"

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Here's what I think:

Of course Cuomo is going to force this plan on the MTA. However, I believe that the battle is far from over. If the cycle between the board and Cuomo keeps up, then I still believe it can be possible for plan 1 to be in place.

Is plan "C" (ironically as a joke and referring to the third released plan) going to stay? Only if the board hides in the shadows. They need to speak up. And others who oppose this plan need to speak up too. You can't do nothing if you hid in the shadows. Then again knowing this state, people will hide and Cuomo will still get his way. 

I hope I at least see the board speak up by next week.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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18 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Here's what I think:

Of course Cuomo is going to force this plan on the MTA. However, I believe that the battle is far from over. If the cycle between the board and Cuomo keeps up, then I still believe it can be possible for plan 1 to be in place.

Is plan "C" (ironically as a joke and referring to the third released plan) going to stay? Only if the board hides in the shadows. They need to speak up. And others who oppose this plan need to speak up too. You can't do nothing if you hid in the shadows. Then again knowing this state, people will hide and Cuomo will still get his way. 

I hope I at least see the board speak up by next week.

Are you kidding. This is a done deal.

January 17, 2019

MTA Update for L Train Riders

As you know the MTA had previously scheduled a complete shutdown of the L train beginning April 27. The disruption of service was to allow reconstruction of the two tubes between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Late last year a design review team of international experts was brought in to review the final plan, and they proposed new construction alternatives and technology which have been used effectively in other countries and industries. The new methods and means include laser light technology to determine structural defects, smart fiber optic sensor technology, and carbon fiber wrapping to reinforce components. Some of these alternatives have not been used by the MTA before and the design integration would be an innovation for the MTA.

The design firm managing the L train project from the beginning has been Parsons Brinckerhoff (now called WSP). WSP has done extensive work studying the new design alternatives and has informed the MTA (and discussed at a public meeting on January 15) that the proposed construction design alternatives are indeed applicable to the L train and can significantly reduce construction time and thus the inconvenience to our riders.

Therefore, the total shutdown of both tunnels and all service scheduled for April 27 will not be necessary. We do anticipate a shutdown of one tube on nights and weekends, however service both ways (between Manhattan and Brooklyn) would be scheduled 24/7.

This project is a major priority for the MTA and reconstruction will be supervised by MTA Capital Construction and overseen by MTA Managing Director Veronique Hakim. The MTA will also hire an independent consultant to oversee safety operations that will report directly to the Board.

The MTA is now working with the various contractors on a new final construction schedule and contracts which delete some elements of the initial construction plan and add the new design alternatives. We do not believe the cost of reconstruction will increase, and given the tremendous benefits to the riding public, reduction in the volume of traffic and savings from the traffic mitigation efforts, it is a clear positive alternative and in the public interest.

We expect the formulation of the final construction schedule and contract completions to take several weeks. The current construction estimate is 15 to 20 months. As soon as we have more definitive information we will provide it to our customers and the public.

 

 

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The thing is, there's a board meeting next week. I highly expect the board to raise hell next week, and they will not go down without a fight over suddenly being booted out of their position of actually, y'know, making decisions. Even if Cuomo's plan ends up being rammed through, the board will not go quietly. 

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@Union Tpke Let me rephrase myself. I expect chaos to happen, but I don't mean that this new plan Cuomo put out could be pushed away in a few weeks. If everyone, including the board, works very hard to fight this plan, then it can be possible to get the original plan back. But it would require a lot of work. Based on what is happening now, plan C is set to go and the original plan will be very hard to get back especially since there probably won't be nearly enough people to overthrow Cuomo overnight.

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35 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

@Union Tpke Let me rephrase myself. I expect chaos to happen, but I don't mean that this new plan Cuomo put out could be pushed away in a few weeks. If everyone, including the board, works very hard to fight this plan, then it can be possible to get the original plan back. But it would require a lot of work. Based on what is happening now, plan C is set to go and the original plan will be very hard to get back especially since there probably won't be nearly enough people to overthrow Cuomo overnight.

It won't go down quietly, but because of the setup of the Board, there is NO WAY for them to stop it. I want them to fight. I want advocates to fight. I want politicians to fight. The truth is that the voters of New York voted to reelect this clown, and we have to deal with his garbage for the next four years.

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As I understand it, the "old" pick with the (L) to/from Bedford only is still in effect. RTO (and by extension TWU) can throw a big wrench in whatever Cuomo wants to do by simply not re-picking.

From what I've seen actual MTA employees don't like this new plan at all.

Edited by Around the Horn
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Quote

The MTA is ramming through Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s controversial plan to avert the L train shutdown, the authority announced Thursday — just two days after the agency’s board bashed the plan during a heated “emergency” meeting Tuesday.

“[T]he total shutdown of both tunnels and all service scheduled for April 27 will not be necessary,” reads a statement issued by the MTA Thursday evening.

An MTA insider said the announcement had Cuomo’s fingerprints all over it.

“Cuomo is saying he knows more about the technology stuff than the technology experts on the MTA board,” the official said. “It’s just a demonstration of who runs the show. This is Cuomo being completely dominant over the MTA.”

The MTA will attempt the legal maneuver by arguing that no board approval is needed because it claims Cuomo’s new plan won’t cost more than the original shut down, even as the embattled authority continues to refuse to provide a price tag.

Good government groups assailed the move.

“The Governor is a wrecking ball, destroying public confidence in both the MTA professional staff and himself,” raged John Kaehny, the executive director of Reinvent Albany. “If the board has a shred of authority, it should be voting on this very major decision.”

The Canarsie tunnel carrying the L train from Brooklyn to Manhattan was scheduled to be closed for 15 months of post-Hurricane Sandy repairs, but Cuomo swooped in on Jan. 3 and announced the authority would instead shutter one tunnel at a time for piecemeal repair.

Then he pumped the brakes the next day and said the MTA board needed to approve the proposal. But the board picked apart the plan Tuesday over concerns the fix wouldn’t last as long as the initial plan — and would expose riders to carcinogenic silica dust.

“We’re starting out marginally less safe,” the MTA source said. “And that’s not a good place to start.”

The news came just hours after Cuomo once again argued on WNYC radio that he should be in charge of the struggling authority — which he already controls.

“Many people are wrong,” he told host Brian Lehrer, when asked about the claims. “We live in a world of tweets, where facts don’t matter.”

Hours later, Cuomo’s MTA announced the end-run around its own board.

The authority and the governor’s office did not respond to a request for comment.

I am honestly disappointed. All that money spent on redoing signalling, contracts, buses, picks, down the drain. And at the cost of passenger safety over time.

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Welp, here's hoping covering concrete in plastic doesn't get someone killed, and that silica dust doesn't cause lung cancer in (L) riders.

 

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8 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Welp, here's hoping covering concrete in plastic doesn't get someone killed, and that silica dust doesn't cause lung cancer in (L) riders.

 

Definitely going to stay off the (L) for the next few years... not getting myself cancer in 60 years because some governor wanted to be a "hero".

I always preferred the less crowded, quieter more scenic (M) anyways...

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Like I said in the other thread, I think it's still possible to reverse the non-shutdown. I personally think there needs to be more to convince me that the Cuomo plan is final. But that is just my opinion.

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I'm not sure why most people on here seems to think there will be massive outcry to stop this plan. Outside of railfans and engineers who care about the nuances of the repairs, most people I talk to are relieved by this new plan and thrilled by it. Cuomo looks like a savior, which is exactly what he wanted. Anyone who goes against that will be vilified by a lot of the riding public  

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8 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I'm not sure why most people on here seems to think there will be massive outcry to stop this plan. Outside of railfans and engineers who care about the nuances of the repairs, most people I talk to are relieved by this new plan and thrilled by it. Cuomo looks like a savior, which is exactly what he wanted. Anyone who goes against that will be vilified by a lot of the riding public  

It's more half-half imo but the problem is more than just "repairing the tunnel faster". The silica dust plays a role in the shutdown and based on Cuomo's plan there is no guarantee that you can clean it up in time and not get New Yorkers who ride the (L) sick. 

Actually, most people (I know) who are fighting the plan now are just worried about the silica dust.

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34 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Definitely going to stay off the (L) for the next few years... not getting myself cancer in 60 years because some governor wanted to be a "hero".

I always preferred the less crowded, quieter more scenic (M) anyways...

Me too. Or the old ferry when I worked in Greendesk on Kent.

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Welp, here's hoping covering concrete in plastic doesn't get someone killed, and that silica dust doesn't cause lung cancer in (L) riders.

It’s sad that politics and personal interests (in this scenario) get in the way over guaranteeing public safety. I feel there should be a balance in both or else the world (especially in NY) won’t proceed without some trouble. Under the chance that the project to avert the (L) shutdown turns out to be a failure, the future generations will take the blame hard, and Cuomo will be way out of harms reach.

Edited by NoHacksJustKhaks
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The board will be fuming next week. I personally can't wait.

Of course when this tunnel inevitably fails, the ghoul who signed on this will have long skipped town. God forbid someone gets killed, Cuomo, Ferrer, the WSP people and the Judlau people should all be tried for manslaughter.

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20 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

It’s sad that politics and personal interests (in this scenario) get in the way over guaranteeing public safety. I feel there should be a balance in both or else the world (especially in NY) won’t proceed without some trouble. Under the chance that the project to avert the (L) shutdown turns out to be a failure, the future generations will take the blame hard, and Cuomo will be way out of harms reach.

It comes down to this:

good_-_cheap_-_fast7.jpg

This is why I'm all about spending the time and money to do it right - fast and cheap always turns out badly. And it costs more in the long-run.

But politicians are always looking for that last option instead of the first two. And it never works out, so another pol has to use a band-aid where a tourniquet is needed.

And it's bipartisan. Had Pataki and Giuliani and Bloomberg spent money on ACTUALLY fixing the system before the city grew again, we wouldn't have this problem.

And if Spitzer didn't get caught with those escorts, no Cuomo (by way of Paterson), and maybe there'd be a governor who gave two shots about the OTHER economic engine that keeps Red Staters employed and social security checks from bouncing - making sure we can get to work doing the mundane in Midtown with relative ease.

Alas, poor Yorick.

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9 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

God forbid someone gets killed, Cuomo, Ferrer, the WSP people and the Judlau people should all be tried for manslaughter.

We can't go after Cuomo - executive privilege.

But since he "doesn't control the (MTA), it means Executive Privilege shouldn't apply, so maybe we can get Ferrer if/when it happens.

They got Sheldon Silver for less...

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What I just posted on 2AvSagas' comments:

"Mr Byford and the entirety of the non-Cuomo board (and Cuomo appointees with consciences) should resign in protest; DeBlasio should not appoint replacements, and et cetera.
But we know that backbone and conscience are in short supply when it comes to New York politics."

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2019/01/18/cuomos-end-run-around-mta-board-complete-as-l-train-shutdown-is-officially-canceled/

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11 minutes ago, Deucey said:

What I just posted on 2AvSagas' comments:

"Mr Byford and the entirety of the non-Cuomo board (and Cuomo appointees with consciences) should resign in protest; DeBlasio should not appoint replacements, and et cetera.
But we know that backbone and conscience are in short supply when it comes to New York politics."

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2019/01/18/cuomos-end-run-around-mta-board-complete-as-l-train-shutdown-is-officially-canceled/

We can all guess who wrote the post below you...:ph34r:

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4 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

We can all guess who wrote the post below you...:ph34r:

It's like he cut and pasted.

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5 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

We can all guess who wrote the post below you...:ph34r:

 

Or the other 20 million comments on Sagas' other L-train posts.

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2 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

We can all guess who wrote the post below you...:ph34r:

Yeah, that was me:

Guilty as charged!!😄
 

1 hour ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

It’s sad that politics and personal interests (in this scenario) get in the way over guaranteeing public safety. I feel there should be a balance in both or else the world (especially in NY) won’t proceed without some trouble. Under the chance that the project to avert the (L) shutdown turns out to be a failure, the future generations will take the blame hard, and Cuomo will be way out of harms reach.


I suspect we will soon be hearing Cuomo is running for President.

And if that does indeed happen, I suspect we also will find out at some point Cuomo had fears that if the (L) was still shut down when the New York primary happened, he'd lose just enough votes in NYC to cost him his home state with the same possible in New Jersey, Connecticut to a lesser extent and also to a lesser extent Pennsylvania (while small, it's sometimes the smallest thing that proves to be the difference).  

Also still think his donors demanded it be done because of fears their employees would be dealing with bloated commutes, especially those who drive and can't or refuse to use public transit because of ripple effects of other traffic from other areas causing work backups. 

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