Full 14th St Shutdown Cancelled

[Lawrence St]

It's official. The  will not be shutting down full time service in April. The option selected was one tube closure's during weekend's and late night's. I think this is a terrible idea. All that money wasted towards writing picks, doing the M14 SBS, extending the (G)...

[RailRunRob]

9 hours ago, YankeesPwnMets said:

This is actually the part that confuses me too. I remember the MTA mentioning that the duct banks had structural integrity issues. I don't understand how this addresses the banks or pump rooms at all

So I'm not crazy. Even speaking with friends in the Civil Engineering field one for the MTA are saying they don't feel the plan is fully flushed. Seems like there just build a wall on top of a wall and filling in the cracks on a basic level. Just Incasing the issues for another 20 years just kicking the can down the road.

[RR503]

22 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

So I'm not crazy. Even speaking with friends in the Civil Engineering field one for the MTA are saying they don't feel the plan is fully flushed. Seems like there just build a wall on top of a wall and filling in the cracks on a basic level. Just Incasing the issues for another 20 years just kicking the can down the road.

Yeah. Some color here:

https://nypost.com/2019/01/04/cuomos-tunnel-experts-have-spent-just-an-hour-evaluating-damage/

Quote

....

The new plan has already come under criticism from MTA insiders and experts, who have blasted the governor for tearing up longstanding plans of the MTA, whose own engineers believe a complete rebuild is needed.

“You’re gonna cover it up, and pretend that it went away,” one MTA official said of Cuomo’s plan.

One former high-ranking MTA official noted that the agency’s original plan was modeled on proven repairs to the R-train’s Montague Tunnel

“It was done ahead of schedule and worked beautifully,” the ex-official said.

Michael Horodniceanu, former president of MTA Capital Construction, said the final project will not have the same lifespan as the previous plan, which was expected to last 100 years.

“It’s going to last for a while, for sure it isn’t going to to be a hundred years,” said Horodniceanu. “It might last 15 years and need to be fixed again.”

 

[CenSin]

Quote

And I said, well the MTA’s doing it and the MTA has these great firms and all the experts and I’m not really an expert and I’m not an engineer, I don’t really know.

And he said, "Well will you look me in the eye and tell me this is the best plan?" I said I’ll look you in the eye and tell you that all the experts say this is best plan, but I don’t know enough to tell you that I believe it.

“Experts… What have they ever been right about? We don’t need no stinkin’ expert opinions!”

[Lawrence St]

So is there no way we the public can force MTA to go back to the 15 month option?

[azspeedbullet]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So is there no way we the public can force MTA to go back to the 15 month option?

impeach cuomo

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, azspeedbullet said:

impeach cuomo

then IMPEACH WE SHALL DO!

[RailRunRob]

10 minutes ago, CenSin said:

“Experts… What have they ever been right about? We don’t need no stinkin’ expert opinions!”

Well, we need experts it's just the measurement of how we deem who gets the title. Raw knowledge vs application and experience is the real mark and there is a major difference.  

[GojiMet86]

https://nypost.com/2019/01/04/mta-officials-are-fuming-over-cuomos-brazen-blindsides/

 

 

Quote

 

MTA officials are fuming over Cuomo’s brazen blindsides

By Carl Campanile, Danielle Furfaro and Nolan Hicks

January 4, 2019 | 10:53pm | Updated

 

 

He’s going off the rails.

A day after nuking the MTA’s ­L-train shutdown plan, Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Friday again blindsided the agency when he proposed scrapping its planned 10-year upgrade of its aging signal system in favor of “Tesla-like technology.”

Cuomo said he’d already been in touch with CEO Elon Musk’s electric-car company about the gadgetry — accusing the MTA, which the governor controls, of being captive to a “transportation industrial complex” run by risk-averse consultants and contractors.

“I called Tesla because it’s outside the box,” Cuomo said during a morning conference call with reporters.

“I don’t believe you need seven, eight, 10 years to put in a new [signal] system . . . at a time where they’re talking about flying cars, and you can get into a car and drive 100 miles on the [Long Island Expressway] and never touch the steering wheel, that there’s not a better technology for subway trains.”

But hours after his proclamation, Cuomo backtracked.

He released a statement saying the MTA will continue with the current plan “until an alternative — such as [ultra-wideband]” is “determined to be viable.”

That plan is called Fast Forward — which New York City Transit chief Andy Byford spent much of the past year promoting. It comes with a $37 billion pricetag and will replace the subway’s failing signals with newer technology over the next decade.

However, Cuomo said he was dazzled by the promise of a signal technology called ultra-wideband radio that he thinks would be better and faster to install.

“It’s not something the vendors in the MTA use,” he sniffed, accusing the agency of being “captive” to its suppliers.

“I understand [Tesla] is not a [typical] subway vendor,” Cuomo added. “So what?!”

The newfangled tech would allow the agency to track where trains are at any given time and increase service — but it has yet to be proven viable in the city’s labyrinthine subway system.

Cuomo also noted that the MTA board will still have to approve the L-train fix that he made sound like a foregone conclusion on Thursday — when he waved off the long-planned shutdown of the line’s crumbling tunnel for his own scheme to perform a speedy patch-up job after-hours.

When asked Thursday if the board would need to sign off on the revised plan, Cuomo said no — before being corrected by its acting chairman.

The board members themselves only heard about Cuomo’s new L-train scheme that day.

“The board was not told. The board was not involved, there was a flurry of emails about this yesterday,” said MTA board member Andrew Albert.

“Will anyone want to do a contract with the MTA anymore if it can just be abrogated like this?”

Experts and officials were fuming at the governor for throwing his own agency’s plan under the bus again Friday, saying he is being irresponsible by announcing these ideas to the public instead of working through and testing them with MTA engineers.

“If this works, terrific, but this is not a way to work in collaboration with people who spend a tremendous amount of time trying to operate a system,” former MTA board member Allen Cappelli told The Post.

“The governor has the most say about [the MTA] — that he would choose to not engage with this project and at the 11th hour try to upstage and try to become a hero is not a good way to govern.”

The MTA has good reason to be wary of rushing head-first into untested technology, said a former high-ranking agency official.

“The engineers at the MTA can have tunnel vision, but they are cautious for a reason: Plenty of big ideas blow up. If it blows up at the MTA, hundreds of thousands of people will suffer,” said the ex-official.

“People at the MTA use caution on big new ideas because they’ve seen big new ideas fail in the past . . . [Cuomo], of course, does not have to accept the recommendations of the smart people doing this their entire career.”

Cuomo’s rogue actions are also a kick in the teeth to Byford — who was recruited in late 2017 while the subway system was melting down — said one good-government expert.

“Byford is one of the top transit experts in the world and he’s expressed skepticism because it hasn’t worked anywhere in the world,” said John Kaehny of Reinvent Albany.

“The agency is supposed to be run by transit professionals who rely on other transit professionals. For the governor to order the MTA to research this speculative technology puts a lie to idea that the MTA is independent or that the MTA board can even perform its legal duties.”

The Post repeatedly reached out to Byford for comment, but the MTA and the governor’s office refused to make him available.

Additional reporting by Ruth Brown

 

 

[Lawrence St]

43 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

https://nypost.com/2019/01/04/mta-officials-are-fuming-over-cuomos-brazen-blindsides/

 

 

 

So then why the hell did they go along with his plan about the shutdown!?!

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just stumbled upon how PATH is dealing with the necessary shutdown of the WTC tubes:

http://www.panynj.gov/alerts-advisories/advisories-path-weekend-closures.html

Summary: weekend service between Exchange Pl and WTC is discontinued from now until December 2020.

And yet Master Cuomo thinks that this "new" method would take 4-9 months less than PATH's repairs.....

[Deucey]

So here's an interesting take (thread):

 

[RailRunRob]

6 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So here's an interesting take (thread):

 

The issue with this is you have Engineers with credentials on both sides supporting both views. How do you move forward and formulate an opinion? What do you base that on? Knowledge or experience? Both ? 

[Interested Rider]

So the emperor speaks and all of his subordinates must bow down and do what he says even though the plan has flaws!

In my readings here and in print, I find that not only are people skeptical and rightfully so  to the timing of this proposal coming just when the shutdown is almost at the countdown to begin the work. it is not based on reality but on what is good for the emperor, not for the riding public. I  join with my fellow posters who feel that the 15 month shutdown was the best possible solution as the work gets done without interruption. By doing it nights and weekends, of course, it will take longer as you do not have the continuity of a full closure. I am of the opinion that after all the hearings and meetings that this was the best possible solution. Since the emperor does not ride the subway except for photo-ops, he could not recall the other tunnels that were damaged by Sandy and the delays that incurred after a weekend or night shutdown. According to the emperor,  past events like the delays are considered irrelevant as it did not impact upon him or his political friends.

What bothers me is that Emperor Cuomo has decided that the work of the MTA Board and of the many dedicated and hard working employees who did their best to come up with the best possible option to have the work done within a reasonable time frame is not important. People like to complain about why government workers do not work (as I had heard when I was working for the state), let them take a look at what Cuomo did to destroy the morale of the employees. This is what happens when the power of the position goes to a person's head as everything is about me. 

 

 

 

[Brillant93]

I maybe jinxing it but Cuomo might even try and prevent the subway forward plan but using tech that hasn't been proven yet. 

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

42 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I maybe jinxing it but Cuomo might even try and prevent the subway forward plan but using tech that hasn't been proven yet. 

That plan involves getting more trains and accessibility into the system, as well as redesigning existing bus networks IIRC. Cuomo could delay the plan to death or really harm its production. But I’m not sure if he has any technology that could replace it. He’d be harming the personal interests of riders and Byford for seemingly no reason or benefit on his part. Fast Forward is widely supported as well so it wouldnt look good for him if he shut it down. My opinion though, who knows?

[Deucey]

6 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

That plan involves getting more trains and accessibility into the system, as well as redesigning existing bus networks IIRC. Cuomo could delay the plan to death or really harm its production. But I’m not sure if he has any technology that could replace it. He’d be harming the personal interests of riders and Byford for seemingly no reason or benefit on his part. My opinion though, who knows?

All to look "decisive" to the cornhuskers before the presidential caucuses.

[RailRunRob]

57 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I maybe jinxing it but Cuomo might even try and prevent the subway forward plan but using tech that hasn't been proven yet. 

Your not Jinxing at all. We go from 40-50 years to upgrade signaling system-wide. Then comes the Genius challenge that 40-50 years is reduced to 10 years UWB etc. Now Cuomo feels that's not even good enough and in comes the calls to Telsa and Elon. It's looking like he might tamper with Byford's plan. This comes on the heels of Byford bring in a CTBC expert from London. One of the systems remind you that pioneered the rack system they were now using that both men worked for before coming to NY. (Shrugs) But what do I know?

[Deucey]

Just now, RailRunRob said:

Your not Jinxing at all. We go from 40-50 years to upgrade signaling system-wide. Then comes the Genius challenge that 40-50 years in reduced to 10 years UWB ect.. Now Cuomo feels that not even good enough and in comes the calls to Telsa and Elon. It's looking like he might tamper with Byford's plan. This comes on the heels of Byford bring in a CTBC expert from London. One the system remind you that pioneered the rack system they were now using that both men worked for. (Shrugs) What do I know?

Band-Aids instead of surgery.

But we voted for this prat instead of actually having a candidate with a plan.

 

[RailRunRob]

3 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Band-Aids instead of surgery.

But we voted for this prat instead of actually having a candidate with a plan.

 

Indeed.

[RR503]

6 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

https://nypost.com/2019/01/04/mta-officials-are-fuming-over-cuomos-brazen-blindsides/

I find it so entertaining to watch middle age men fawn over Elon Musk. Tesla boy so clearly is incompetent; he is the archetype of the hype-fueled Silicon Valley CEO. It's depressing that people are actually falling for his tricks. 

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

So here's an interesting take (thread):

 

I saw this earlier. I think what needs to be pointed out, though (and some on twitter did) is that what was presented was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a plan. There was no analysis, no detail, no precedent -- nothing. It was a fantasy; the beginning of a research project, not the basis for tunnel reconstruction. I think his point about skepticism is valid, but I think he makes his own counterargument -- skepticism shouldn't take the form of a unilaterally imposed plan, but instead, well, questions, and discussion among people who actually have worked in/know about the system. If this works out, amazing, but just as the previous unilateral plan should have drawn skepticism earlier in the game, this should too. 

I also think that people need to stop seeing this as just about moving the cables. It's not. It's moving the cables, doing some palliative care on the benchwall, and (seemingly) ignoring issues with the tunnel lining, etc. Those latter portions of the plan are, I believe, the areas that draw question.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

So the emperor speaks and all of his subordinates must bow down and do what he says even though the plan has flaws!

In my readings here and in print, I find that not only are people skeptical and rightfully so  to the timing of this proposal coming just when the shutdown is almost at the countdown to begin the work. it is not based on reality but on what is good for the emperor, not for the riding public. I  join with my fellow posters who feel that the 15 month shutdown was the best possible solution as the work gets done without interruption. By doing it nights and weekends, of course, it will take longer as you do not have the continuity of a full closure. I am of the opinion that after all the hearings and meetings that this was the best possible solution. Since the emperor does not ride the subway except for photo-ops, he could not recall the other tunnels that were damaged by Sandy and the delays that incurred after a weekend or night shutdown. According to the emperor,  past events like the delays are considered irrelevant as it did not impact upon him or his political friends.

What bothers me is that Emperor Cuomo has decided that the work of the MTA Board and of the many dedicated and hard working employees who did their best to come up with the best possible option to have the work done within a reasonable time frame is not important. People like to complain about why government workers do not work (as I had heard when I was working for the state), let them take a look at what Cuomo did to destroy the morale of the employees. This is what happens when the power of the position goes to a person's head as everything is about me. 

From what I've read elsewhere, it's more likely in the eyes of many his DONORS who demanded Cuomo do this.  As I noted in the Fix & Fortify thread:

4 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Some of those donors probably would never want to have to deal with the "unwashed masses."  These types would likely fear their safety among such, especially if they sense the "unwashed masses" realize such are rich.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

8 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

The Post repeatedly reached out to Byford for comment, but the MTA and the governor’s office refused to make him available.

 

That to me, says enough.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:53 PM, Deucey said:

Terminating those contracts will cost - and with a perennially broke agency about to steal more of our money in 60 days....

 

It's common knowledge that the 2010 "bailout" law requires fare and toll increases every two years. 

[Deucey]

23 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

It's common knowledge that the 2010 "bailout" law requires fare and toll increases every two years. 

It's also common knowledge that there's gold and wheat in China.

And that "common knowledge" has about as much to do with an agency that's cash-strapped having to pay termination fees for cancelled contracts as your "common knowledge."