Wallyhorse Posted January 6, 2019 Share #151 Posted January 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Interested Rider said: So the emperor speaks and all of his subordinates must bow down and do what he says even though the plan has flaws! In my readings here and in print, I find that not only are people skeptical and rightfully so to the timing of this proposal coming just when the shutdown is almost at the countdown to begin the work. it is not based on reality but on what is good for the emperor, not for the riding public. I join with my fellow posters who feel that the 15 month shutdown was the best possible solution as the work gets done without interruption. By doing it nights and weekends, of course, it will take longer as you do not have the continuity of a full closure. I am of the opinion that after all the hearings and meetings that this was the best possible solution. Since the emperor does not ride the subway except for photo-ops, he could not recall the other tunnels that were damaged by Sandy and the delays that incurred after a weekend or night shutdown. According to the emperor, past events like the delays are considered irrelevant as it did not impact upon him or his political friends. What bothers me is that Emperor Cuomo has decided that the work of the MTA Board and of the many dedicated and hard working employees who did their best to come up with the best possible option to have the work done within a reasonable time frame is not important. People like to complain about why government workers do not work (as I had heard when I was working for the state), let them take a look at what Cuomo did to destroy the morale of the employees. This is what happens when the power of the position goes to a person's head as everything is about me. To many, it's his DONORS who would not fund his running for President (if he does run) unless he did this as noted elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted January 6, 2019 Share #152 Posted January 6, 2019 Now it looks like after stating that his plan does not need approval, Cuomo decides to make it necessary for the mta board to vote on his plan. And this is part of the reason why I say wait a few days/weeks to see if the L shutdown will change or not: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2019/01/04/l-train-shutdown-cuomo-latest-?cid=facebook_Spectrum_News_NY1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted January 6, 2019 Share #153 Posted January 6, 2019 The best transit journalist out there, Aaron Gordon got to speak to Byford. All of you should check out signal problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted January 6, 2019 Share #154 Posted January 6, 2019 7 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: Now it looks like after stating that his plan does not need approval, Cuomo decides to make it necessary for the mta board to vote on his plan. And this is part of the reason why I say wait a few days/weeks to see if the L shutdown will change or not: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2019/01/04/l-train-shutdown-cuomo-latest-?cid=facebook_Spectrum_News_NY1 Feeling more and more like a three ring circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted January 6, 2019 Share #155 Posted January 6, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 12:19 PM, RailRunRob said: Well, we need experts it's just the measurement of how we deem who gets the title. Raw knowledge vs application and experience is the real mark and there is a major difference. It seems that leaving out the “/s” has cost my reputation dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted January 6, 2019 Share #156 Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, CenSin said: It seems that leaving out the “/s” has cost my reputation dearly. Just adding my two cents to the convo no worries. No reputation loss at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted January 7, 2019 Share #157 Posted January 7, 2019 18 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: Now it looks like after stating that his plan does not need approval, Cuomo decides to make it necessary for the mta board to vote on his plan. And this is part of the reason why I say wait a few days/weeks to see if the L shutdown will change or not: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2019/01/04/l-train-shutdown-cuomo-latest-?cid=facebook_Spectrum_News_NY1 All I can say is, hopefully the shutdown gets back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted January 7, 2019 Share #158 Posted January 7, 2019 Another article to share: https://abc7ny.com/in-limbo-many-want-answers-from-mta-after-l-train-shutdown-averted/5026099/ WILLIAMSBURG, Brooklyn (WABC) -- Thousands of people are in limbo days after Governor Cuomo announced a plan to avert the L train shutdown. Some people moved out of their apartments, and some apartment owners offered lower rents to get them to stay. Now, elected leaders want answers from the MTA. "How did we find out by surprise - how did we find out by surprise?" said Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams. It is not just the lack of communication - some are concerned with whether the new repair plan for the tunnel is safe. In City Council, there will be hearings, and Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney says she would like answers as well. "We need more information - safety is our number one concern," Maloney said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted January 8, 2019 Share #159 Posted January 8, 2019 Byford finally responds to Cuomo's plan This can either come out good or make the system a failure beyond words: https://nypost.com/2019/01/07/transit-boss-if-cuomos-l-train-plan-backfires-im-on-the-hook/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted January 8, 2019 Share #160 Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: Byford finally responds to Cuomo's plan This can either come out good or make the system a failure beyond words: https://nypost.com/2019/01/07/transit-boss-if-cuomos-l-train-plan-backfires-im-on-the-hook/ Dunno why he's taking responsibility for something he didn't introduce nor was apprised of by a boss that didn't talk to him at first nor endorse his plan at first. But unfortunately I'm the guy who throws superiors under the bus when they're being stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted January 8, 2019 Share #161 Posted January 8, 2019 Probably because he knows he'll be the face of this if it falls apart. Unless this idea fails fairly early while it's still in the news cycle, people will forget that Cuomo made the change in the first place and lay blame on the person in charge of the (sub-)agency, which unfortunately is Byford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italianstallion Posted January 8, 2019 Share #162 Posted January 8, 2019 16 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: Byford finally responds to Cuomo's plan This can either come out good or make the system a failure beyond words: https://nypost.com/2019/01/07/transit-boss-if-cuomos-l-train-plan-backfires-im-on-the-hook/ At least he's performing some due diligence to check up on the plan's viability before recommending it to the Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted January 8, 2019 Share #163 Posted January 8, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 8:59 PM, P3F said: All I can say is, hopefully the shutdown gets back on track. Things could get quite interesting if the board does indeed decide to go against Cuomo’s wishes and vote for the full shutdown as planned. 11 hours ago, Deucey said: Dunno why he's taking responsibility for something he didn't introduce nor was apprised of by a boss that didn't talk to him at first nor endorse his plan at first. But unfortunately I'm the guy who throws superiors under the bus when they're being stupid. He seems to be taking it better than I expected him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted January 8, 2019 Share #164 Posted January 8, 2019 Byford is now recommending an independent assessment. I don't think he's completely sold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted January 9, 2019 Share #165 Posted January 9, 2019 @Lancecan we merge all the 14th St topics into one thread again? kinda hard to keep track with all these threads lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted January 9, 2019 Share #166 Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, RR503 said: Byford is now recommending an independent assessment. I don't think he's completely sold... Good. I always like people who don't blindly follow. Hopefully contracts haven't been cancelled yet just in case this assessment shows it's a half-assed job that punts the actual repairs needed down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 9, 2019 Share #167 Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Deucey said: Good. I always like people who don't blindly follow. Hopefully contracts haven't been cancelled yet just in case this assessment shows it's a half-assed job that punts the actual repairs needed down the road. Cuomo might demand the board go along with HIS plan anyway and threaten to retaliate if they fail to go along. He likely knows if a full-fledged shutdown is going on during the 2020 Presidential primaries he has no chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted January 9, 2019 Share #168 Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said: Cuomo might demand the board go along with HIS plan anyway and threaten to retaliate if they fail to go along. He likely knows if a full-fledged shutdown is going on during the 2020 Presidential primaries he has no chance of winning. Andy C has no chance of winning. Let's be real. But on even more real, the last thing he'll want is to die on that hill - forcing a quick vetted and substandard plan that the learned folks looking at this for more than an hour say "No" to because it'll be a bandage on a hemorrhage that needs surgery. I'd even go so far to suggest this outside expert thing Byford called for is Andy C's attempt to walk this "hero" moment back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 9, 2019 Share #169 Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said: Cuomo might demand the board go along with HIS plan anyway and threaten to retaliate if they fail to go along. He likely knows if a full-fledged shutdown is going on during the 2020 Presidential primaries he has no chance of winning. You think Sally from Iowa gives two hoots about stranded hipsters? Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted January 9, 2019 Share #170 Posted January 9, 2019 Big OpEd in the Times! https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/opinion/l-train-subway-cuomo.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Contributors Cuomo’s Risky L Train Fix We don’t know enough to know whether it’s safe. By Carmen Bianco Mr. Bianco was the president of New York City Transit from 2013 to 2015. Jan. 8, 2019 A Canarsie-bound L train at the Broadway Junction stop in Brooklyn. Riders have been dreading the shutdown of the L train tunnel under the East River for repairs.CreditCreditJohn Taggart for The New York Times In 2012, Superstorm Sandy infiltrated the Canarsie Tunnel, which carries the L train under the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Seven million gallons of corrosive saltwater damaged the tube structure, the tracks and ties, and signal and other electrical equipment. The repairs needed on the tunnel are extensive, and the engineering plans to make it more resilient in future storms are complex and took considerable time to develop. The solution identified by the engineers and consultants of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, who have expertise with both subways and under-river tunnels, was designed to evaluate the integrity of the tunnel and produce a permanent fix. That project, involving shutting down the tunnel for 15 months, was supposed to begin in April. Last week, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced that he was recommending an alternate plan of action for the Canarsie Tunnel. That plan calls for hanging cables from straps on the tunnel walls instead of embedding them in the benchwall itself, and using a fiberglass polymer to repair the wall, among other recommendations. The plan suggests the tunnel could be fixed without shutting down service. As the former president of New York City Transit — a part of the M.T.A. responsible for the city’s buses and subways — and someone who witnessed firsthand the level of destruction and its impact on subway infrastructure as a result of Superstorm Sandy, I am concerned that the decision to change course on the Canarsie Tunnel project is premature and uninformed. This new plan has not been fully evaluated in terms of costs, available M.T.A. resources and, most important, safety. Nor am I aware that the technology recommended to repair the benchwall has ever been used in an under-river environment. As president of New York City Transit, I would have found this new course of action completely unacceptable. It is totally understandable that for those living in the communities affected, this news is wildly popular, as it will allow for trains to run through the tunnel during construction. However, since transit engineers were not consulted as part of this new plan, the lack of in-depth knowledge of what’s at stake leaves me concerned for the future safety and reliability of this under-river tunnel. The decision to reconstruct the tunnel after the storm was not made lightly. Transit leadership and the M.T.A. board knew the effects on the community would be extraordinarily difficult. We looked at every possibility before deciding to shut down the entire tube. We modeled numerous operation and construction scenarios short of a total shutdown, but all had significant safety and operational concerns and fell well short of a long-term fix. Believe me, transit decision makers would have seized on a viable solution that would have accomplished the task and still allowed for adequate and safe train service — but that solution did not materialize. While a total shutdown is painful to the community and businesses alike, the pain was measured in months rather than years, and safety and the long-term viability of the tunnel were at the center of that decision. While I respect the knowledge of the team the governor brought together to give this a fresh look, the proposed plan falls far short in so many ways, especially regarding safety. How can this decision be made without a hazard assessment? A list of important questions to be reviewed needs to include the following: What are the risks to employees and customers should a fire occur or if a train needs to be evacuated? What impact will the new plan have on maintenance in the years ahead? Does it even meet industry standards for the United States? Without a hazard assessment, we cannot answer those critical questions. Keep in mind this is a subterranean environment well below the East River. Even in the best conditions, under-river tubes present some of the greatest operational and engineering challenges to transit leaders. In confined spaces like these, in a tube that is nearly a mile long, ventilation is complicated, and emergency egress is more difficult, with passengers and employees having to travel longer distances to safety in a compromised environment. The space is also narrow, making it difficult for employees to work. There is no room for error when it comes to the lives of our customers and employees, and every decision needs to be carefully evaluated. While many details about the new plan have not been made public, on its surface, this new approach appears to be a Band-Aid that does not fundamentally address the long-term structural needs of the tube. The result? We’ll be right back here in the same situation in 10 to 20 years, when customers will have to endure additional service disruptions and taxpayers will have to foot the bill for work that should have been done now. I believe this decision illustrates politics colliding with sound leadership and management. In several years those associated with this decision will be gone and transit leadership and the community will be living with this decision for decades. This is a decision we could live to regret. Carmen Bianco was the president of New York City Transit from 2013 to 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted January 9, 2019 Share #171 Posted January 9, 2019 When is the MTA board supposed to decide on this? I have this feeling it may be reveresed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted January 9, 2019 Share #172 Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Abba said: When is the MTA board supposed to decide on this? I have this feeling it may be reveresed. It has to be. Do a job correctly the first time, dont just go in and do a patch job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted January 9, 2019 Share #173 Posted January 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Wallyhorse said: Cuomo might demand the board go along with HIS plan anyway and threaten to retaliate if they fail to go along. He likely knows if a full-fledged shutdown is going on during the 2020 Presidential primaries he has no chance of winning. He already did when he did the surprise pop up with the plan he revealed. The question is if the board will accept this. You're paying attention to the government shutdown yes? Just because you lead something and can "demand" whatever you want (let it be a wall or a sh!tty subway plan) dosen't mean you get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 9, 2019 Share #174 Posted January 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Union Tpke said: Big OpEd in the Times! https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/opinion/l-train-subway-cuomo.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Contributors Cuomo’s Risky L Train Fix Was just going to post this myself. This is a big deal. Finally somebody who Cuomo can't fire (see: Byford) actually has the guts to speak out with the obvious truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 9, 2019 Share #175 Posted January 9, 2019 10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: You think Sally from Iowa gives two hoots about stranded hipsters? Gimme a break. Again, Iowa doesn't matter. This is specifically New York, New Jersey and Connecticut and to a lesser extent Pennsylvania. Those are the states where people know Cuomo and either are directly affected or know people who are going to be affected by this. If the shutdown occurred as planned, it likely is still going when the primaries in those states are taking place. THAT is what matters to Cuomo if he is running for President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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