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Union Tpke

Stuck and Stressed: The Health Costs of Traffic...

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I don't know where to put this. This is why we need to drastically expand mass transit! There is a great section about this in a book I read a year or so ago. I will try to find it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/upshot/stuck-and-stressed-the-health-costs-of-traffic.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

Edited by Lance

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Commuting on Public transit (Well in the NYC Tri state area at least) is stressful as well, IDK how ppl ride the (A) train into BK during the PM Rush everyday and maintain their sanity.

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11 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Commuting on Public transit (Well in the NYC Tri state area at least) is stressful as well, IDK how ppl ride the (A) train into BK during the PM Rush everyday and maintain their sanity.

 

I lost mine and started taking the express bus or J train

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17 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Commuting on Public transit (Well in the NYC Tri state area at least) is stressful as well, IDK how ppl ride the (A) train into BK during the PM Rush everyday and maintain their sanity.

 

17 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

 

I lost mine and started taking the express bus or J train

The crowding is one thing, but when the (A) train just cruises by local stops like it has nowhere to go,  it makes it more frustrating.

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6 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

 

The crowding is one thing, but when the (A) train just cruises by local stops like it has nowhere to go,  it makes it more frustrating.

Between Utica and Broadway Junction S/B is uphill so trains crawl on that stretch.. and there's timers pulling into Broawday Junction to boot.

 

 

Between Canal and Hoyt is the worst S/B during rush hour, so much congestion ☹

 

 

@Jdog14 The (J) is pretty annoying as well due to having to merge with the (M) line and the crawl over the bridge. I've been on many (J) trains where the dispatcher let the (M) line go first at both Essex AND Myrtle..

Edited by trainfan22
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On 1/23/2019 at 1:42 PM, trainfan22 said:

The (J) is pretty annoying as well due to having to merge with the (M) line and the crawl over the bridge. I've been on many (J) trains where the dispatcher let the (M) line go first at both Essex AND Myrtle..

I’m guessing the way the (MTA) sees the (J) compared to the (M). They see the (M) as a line that has more priority..... Not good in my opinion. Don’t even get me started on WillyB though. (J) and (M) trains usually crawl at 20-25 MPH and the fastest they go (based from my experience) was 30 MPH. Something can definitely be done to make trains run at a faster speed over the Williamsburg Bridge while maintaining safety along the Bridge. 

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Speaking of the Willisamsburg Br, what were the details of the crash? Clearly, one can see if there's a train in front of yours?

Edited by N6 Limited

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26 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Speaking of the Willisamsburg Br, what were the details of the crash? Clearly, one can see if there's a train in front of yours?

The short version is that the T/O fell asleep with his controller at full power. When it passed a red signal at 36mph, it was tripped, but a combination of ineffective braking and old signal design caused it to impact its leader. Thus began timertown. 

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1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I’m guessing the way the (MTA) sees the (J) compared to the (M). They see the (M) as a line that has more priority..... Not good in my opinion. Don’t even get me started on WillyB though. (J) and (M) trains usually crawl at 20-25 MPH and the fastest they go (based from my experience) was 30 MPH. Something can definitely be done to make trains run at a faster speed over the Williamsburg Bridge while maintaining safety along the Bridge. 

There are consecutive series of timers for ~50% of the Williamsburg Bridge on the sections where the slope is negative, (m < 0), that effectively limits the capacity that the structure can handle. If the signals read clear except for the last few, (maybe the final 5 signals coming into both Essex Street and Marcy Avenue), I believe there's a good chance safety will be retained, without having to sacrifice speed, freeing up the road for more trains per hour. Timers are one of the most prominent causes behind reduced travelling speed throughout the system. If the MTA is still concerned about the possibility of another train wreck disaster occurring on the Williamsburg Bridge, they should start making intelligent decisions like requiring ALL T/O's to have at least 12 hours of downtime (preferably 16 hours in between shifts) and randomly screening for blood-alcohol content every month. When YOU overwork your employee base and cut their recharging periods short, YOU are responsible for risking the safety of the public. Now, you ought to think that the people who manage one of the most busiest transit systems in North America would have some degree of insight and problem solving ability, but the majority of their decisions go against logic and rational thinking in general.

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39 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

There are consecutive series of timers for ~50% of the Williamsburg Bridge on the sections where the slope is negative, (m < 0), that effectively limits the capacity that the structure can handle. If the signals read clear except for the last few, (maybe the final 5 signals coming into both Essex Street and Marcy Avenue), I believe there's a good chance safety will be retained, without having to sacrifice speed, freeing up the road for more trains per hour. Timers are one of the most prominent causes behind reduced travelling speed throughout the system. If the MTA is still concerned about the possibility of another train wreck disaster occurring on the Williamsburg Bridge, they should start making intelligent decisions like requiring ALL T/O's to have at least 12 hours of downtime (preferably 16 hours in between shifts) and randomly screening for blood-alcohol content every month. When YOU overwork your employee base and cut their recharging periods short, YOU are responsible for risking the safety of the public. Now, you ought to think that the people who manage one of the most busiest transit systems in North America would have some degree of insight and problem solving ability, but the majority of their decisions go against logic and rational thinking in general.

The capacity limit on the WillyB isn’t actually so much the timers on the main span as it is the entrance to the stations on either side. Marcy EB and Essex WB are both 10mph curves, meaning that to extract full cap from them with any sort of dwell time, you’re really gonna need trains following each other at less than platform distance. That isn’t the case now — trains hold back from the platform until their leaders are well clear of the sta as per the signal system. So basically, we need STs. 

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1 hour ago, RR503 said:

The capacity limit on the WillyB isn’t actually so much the timers on the main span as it is the entrance to the stations on either side. Marcy EB and Essex WB are both 10mph curves, meaning that to extract full cap from them with any sort of dwell time, you’re really gonna need trains following each other at less than platform distance. That isn’t the case now — trains hold back from the platform until their leaders are well clear of the sta as per the signal system. So basically, we need STs. 

I understand your preference for having station time signals in attempt to have trains follow each other as closely as possible, but the timers on the Williamsburg Bridge already create a buffer zone to maintain a certain distance between trains. Installing ST's along the WB will most likely mirror what we already have in place. After all, ST's are actually a derivative of timers anyway. The choke points are the tight curves upon entrance of Essex Street and Marcy Avenue, but quickly reaching those areas is also a big part of the issue, which won't be solved by having trains stroll at 25 MPH under station time control. There exists a relationship between distance travelled, rate (speed) and time elapsed. We want trains to cover distances as quickly as possible, so they clear the choke points as quickly as possible. ST's are more appropriate for keeping trains a close distance under optimal conditions, e.g., no sharp curves or steep grades within their control length, which is not the case near Essex/Marcy.

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21 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I understand your preference for having station time signals in attempt to have trains follow each other as closely as possible, but the timers on the Williamsburg Bridge already create a buffer zone to maintain a certain distance between trains. Installing ST's along the WB will most likely mirror what we already have in place. After all, ST's are actually a derivative of timers anyway. The choke points are the tight curves upon entrance of Essex Street and Marcy Avenue, but quickly reaching those areas is also a big part of the issue, which won't be solved by having trains stroll at 25 MPH under station time control. There exists a relationship between distance travelled, rate (speed) and time elapsed. We want trains to cover distances as quickly as possible, so they clear the choke points as quickly as possible. ST's are more appropriate for keeping trains a close distance under optimal conditions, e.g., no sharp curves or steep grades within their control length, which is not the case near Essex/Marcy.

No contest on timers being bad for runtime.

You have to be careful when talking about timers and capacity though. If you're retrofitting a GT20 onto a control lines designed for 40mph operation, you're losing capacity. The WillyB's signals are spaced for 20mph running, though, meaning that while slow, the main span timers themselves should not be causing a capacity loss (generally, interstation areas aren't determinate of capacity -- station areas are).

Where the capacity is being lost is in having trains sit (we'll use e/b as our case study) at the homeball coming off the bridge until the leading train is basically clear of the platform. That would be fine if the entering track was straight, but it, well, isn't, it's 10mph. The only way to maintain capacity under those sorts of speed conditions is to have your following train close on the leader as much as possible, so that dead time forced by the slow running is kept to a minimum. This means STing closer to the platform, and then entering platform limits even before the leader is clear.  

Edited by RR503
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