Mother Carrying Baby in Stroller Dies After Falling Down Subway Stairs

[N6 Limited 905]

Part of the problem also is that the MTA always needs more than one elevator per station, 2 minimum, at millions of dollars. 

One to the Mezz, One to an Island Platform, two to side platforms.

If shallow, two elevators , one to each platorm

If Elevated they have to build from the ground to the Mezz, then have two up to the side platforms.

Etc, Etc

Have they done studies on how to make installation cheaper? Like One Elevator from the ground, mezz and platform? 

How have other agencies installed Elevators?

[bobtehpanda 4,792]

3 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Part of the problem also is that the MTA always needs more than one elevator per station, 2 minimum, at millions of dollars. 

One to the Mezz, One to an Island Platform, two to side platforms.

If shallow, two elevators , one to each platorm

If Elevated they have to build from the ground to the Mezz, then have two up to the side platforms.

Etc, Etc

Have they done studies on how to make installation cheaper? Like One Elevator from the ground, mezz and platform? 

How have other agencies installed Elevators?

New York historically has relied heavily on cut and cover construction. Particularly in situations where island platforms are the norm, this means that a direct elevator from platform to ground level is not possible, because that elevator would wind up in the middle of the road.

To complicate things further, New York station entrances are on sidewalks next to the curb, which are barely wide enough for the staircases sometimes, let alone elevators with a fare control at ground level.

[R68OnBroadway 352]

For stations on Sea Beach and Brighton, can't they just replace one staircase with an elevator or even a ramp? 

[bobtehpanda 4,792]

49 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

For stations on Sea Beach and Brighton, can't they just replace one staircase with an elevator or even a ramp? 

Not a regular for Sea Beach or Brighton so not going to comment on those particular cases.

Ramps are actually complicated: for a ramp to be ADA accessible, the length of any given slope is limited, because you don't want a runaway wheelchair. Ramps would effectively have to look like the ones at PABT to be accessible, and they take up quite a lot of room, way more so than an elevator.

[Interested Rider 462]

2 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

For stations on Sea Beach and Brighton, can't they just replace one staircase with an elevator or even a ramp? 

The answer is no as the Sea Beach Line has two entrances on 2 different streets with a single staircase at each entrance.  The exceptions are 86th Street and 20th Avenue. These two stations have two staircases from the same entrance.. New Utrecht Avenue has two staircases and I am unsure about an elevator is being installed The distance between the two entrances is approximately 600 feet apart with Fort Hamilton Parkway having a longer distance. To install an elevator at Sea Beach Stations would require an easement as the property line begins almost at the stairway.

The Brighton Line is a can of worms as the express platforms north of Brighton Beach are way too narrow and I offer Kings Highway as an example where an elevator has been installed and the space between the elevator and the platform is about one foot and there are signs not to stand there. Forget Beverly and Cortelyou Roads as the local platforms are extremely narrow. The other local stops are slightly bigger and have been recently rehabilitated. The problem here is the one stairway at many of the stations even though a second stairway was added at Avenue M northbound side. 

Even though I feel that elevators would have been a good idea to have them installed when the stations were rehabilitated, I feel that it is more important that the funds be allocated for the repair of the signal system and the repair and maintenance of the system. I hear the complaints and do not think that I am not sympathetic as going up and down the Brighton line steps has become quite hard for me so I can relate for the need for elevators and ramps. The question becomes at what cost especially now where there is a need for a dedicated source of revenue to be set in stone so that the monies could be allocated for other projects that are considered more important to the system.

 

[N6 Limited 905]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

New York historically has relied heavily on cut and cover construction. Particularly in situations where island platforms are the norm, this means that a direct elevator from platform to ground level is not possible, because that elevator would wind up in the middle of the road.

 

Excuse the lack of clarity, When I made that comment I was referring to elevated stations, like 125th Street on the , instead of 3 elevators maybe 2, with fare control surrounding the elevator at the platform or something. 

Who installs the elevators for the MTA? could they get a bulk discount contract?

[N6 Limited 905]

On 1/30/2019 at 11:28 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

I questioned your technique specifically and why it makes no sense logically. It ties back into the main point I, and many others have mentioned. Yes, this was a tiny incident technically and yes we do see and feel drama over it. But I don't see how this event doesn't evidence the consequences of bad practices by the agency. Elevators definitely would have made this event less likely to happen, if at all. The parent probably didn't even know your specific trick could be used to get down, not everyone will. And if she did, it clearly isn't foolproof, again during bad weather, etc. I see no reason to shrug off an incident like this when people clearly can be put in danger very easily when given no good option at many stations, it's the ignorance the agency has had for years addressing this problem by shrugging off clear flaws in station design through these accidents. 

It's very logical, perhaps this is the disconnect that we're having in this thread . This is not the MTA's, fault, this could've happened if Elevators were installed, in fact, how many times has this happened in NYC mass transit history? With Billions or trillions of rides accumulated? This is not to say that more elevators don't need to be installed, but appoint blame appropriately. 

This is like the Southern State Parkway, someone crashes into an overpass, and everyone blames the roadway saying that it's "dangerous!". The highway has been there since the 1930s, over a billion trips have been made on the roadway, it's called miscalulated driving. 

OR when we had the epidemic of wrong way driving on Long Island highways. The roads have been there since at least the 1920/30s, we don't "need more 'wrong way' signs" or  spiked strips on exit ramps, we need(ed) to find out why all these drunk people were popping up like zombies.

In a transit related example, Spyuten Dyvel, the train overturned because it was going too fast.  Keep in mind, the line has been there since the 1800s, They find out the Engineer fell asleep and obviously the logical thing to do is add a speed restriction sign?  

Edited February 1 by N6 Limited
Transit related example

[NoHacksJustKhaks 294]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

In a transit related example, Spyuten Dyvel, the train overturned because it was going too fast.  Keep in mind, the line has been there since the 1800s, They find out the Engineer fell asleep and obviously the logical thing to do is add a speed restriction sign?  

2

The nitty gritty is that the speed restriction signs are a false sense of hope that the  is usually pressured to install in wake of an accident, who do they benefit? Nobody usually (at least in most situations). Elevators, on the other hand, are different in that their installation almost always correlates with benefit, even if one incident caused it to be installed. Do you think this mother would slip, fall and cause death on an elevator? Picture that for a second, you'd have to try to make that happen, it's hard. The point to make is that these incidents, on there own, aren't that significant, and some overreact way too much, saying this must be done tomorrow, and I agree with them to an extent; however, blame must be appointed to the fact that an entire demographic of subway riders are still being denied easy access to the system, this number isn't small or sporadic, unlike your examples. The frustration of how disabled commuters are stuck between a rock and a hard place is exactly why the  should take more action to prevent these blemishes. Do you think they would just install or consider these elevators if there was no consequence shown both short or long term? Ignoring stuff like this is a reason to let it go on, even if it's figuratively a splinter. The goal (at least what I think) is to not look at this from the perspective of today, where the MTA technically shouldn't be blamed for one single incident that happened many years ago in a sea of safety, but to take it as a small wakeup call for riders who simply can't put up with corruption that's been continuing onwards now for years. And I'd consider that appointing blame appropriately.

Enough ramble, I don't seem to understand the logistics behind your point if you'd care to go further...

Edited February 1 by NoHacksJustKhaks

[BM5 via Woodhaven 4,400]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

It's very logical, perhaps this is the disconnect that we're having in this thread . This is not the MTA's, fault, this could've happened if Elevators were installed, in fact, how many times has this happened in NYC mass transit history? With Billions or trillions of rides accumulated? This is not to say that more elevators don't need to be installed, but appoint blame appropriately. 

 

Sure, the episode (whatever it was) could have happened with an elevator,  but if the woman really had some sort of health conditions, that event is capable of triggering such reaction. Health conditions (such as heart conditions) makes situations like this even more risky. IDK what she may have had, but it is certainly possible. 

I mean, she didn't have any problem with the stroller before going down the stairs, so something has to give.

Edited February 1 by BM5 via Woodhaven