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Deucey

SI officials: What the L y'all gonna do with those buses?

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32 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Funny how S.I politics get involved, and now the Nova LFS order is delayed...

New Flyer should take over this nova order fiasco. Meanwhile the LFSA artic order is moving right along. Gun Hill is about 90% finish and MJQ is commencing 

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1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Funny how S.I politics get involved, and now the Nova LFS order is delayed...

A short story:

SI: We need new buses, we don't have any of the new Cuomo buses!

(MTA): Wait a few weeks, we'll get them to you. 

SI: NO! We want them now!

(MTA): Wait.

SI: NO! NOW!

(MTA): Since you're acting like a baby, we're not giving you new buses anytime soon! Have fun with those NG's that break down all the time.

SI: We should've seceded.

Edited by Lil 57
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On 2/4/2019 at 6:11 PM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

You know...I always heard about Staten Island having a lot of pull when it comes to receiving buses. I wonder if this could possibly shift the order of LFS going to the Bronx. Maybe give Castleton 90 LFS along with YUKs 77 LFS, and call it the day. Send the Orions to the Bronx. 

Castleton does need them... 

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8 hours ago, Closingracer said:

Castleton does need them... 

If you wanna be technical...Yukon doesn't NEED them anyways...they have perfectly servicing Orion VII NGs, but they're leaving the island for fleet uniformity. I was wondering why not just give Castleton 90 so the Orion VII 3Gs can leave and the island can be all Novas. 

But the questioned was already answered so no need to bring it back up. 

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11 hours ago, Closingracer said:

Castleton does need them... 

 

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

If you wanna be technical...Yukon doesn't NEED them anyways...they have perfectly servicing Orion VII NGs, but they're leaving the island for fleet uniformity. I was wondering why not just give Castleton 90 so the Orion VII 3Gs can leave and the island can be all Novas. 

But the questioned was already answered so no need to bring it back up. 

I personally  believe that Castleton and Charleston should get a small batch of the new LFS so they can displace all the LFS buses they took from Yukon back to its rightfully place, improve reliability and have every corner of the distant Isle can enjoy the beauties and benefits of some new factory fresh and cuomoized buses. The forgotten borough shall be forgotten no more.

The new assignments would now go like this:

8120-8173, 10 new LFS (64) Charleston 

8174-8241, 10 new LFS (78) Castleton 

8242-8317, 57 new LFS (133) Yukon (36 Buses allocated for S79+)

This would again improve reliability and bring us closer to implementing the new scheme to every corner of the city. Who wouldn’t like new buses?

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3 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

If you wanna be technical...Yukon doesn't NEED them anyways...they have perfectly servicing Orion VII NGs, but they're leaving the island for fleet uniformity. I was wondering why not just give Castleton 90 so the Orion VII 3Gs can leave and the island can be all Novas. 

But the question was already answered so no need to bring it back up. 

Those NG's on SI run into a lot of problems. NG's, let alone any hybrid bus, aren't made to be run of long suburban roads like in SI. They are meant to be used on stop and go routes in a city environment. Not too far back in the Fleet & Depots thread, there was a post about Yukon's NGs having issues in Manhattan. 

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9 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Those NG's on SI run into a lot of problems. NG's, let alone any hybrid bus, aren't made to be run of long suburban roads like in SI. They are meant to be used on stop and go routes in a city environment. Not too far back in the Fleet & Depots thread, there was a post about Yukon's NGs having issues in Manhattan. 

and Brooklyn. 

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23 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Those NG's on SI run into a lot of problems. NG's, let alone any hybrid bus, aren't made to be run of long suburban roads like in SI. They are meant to be used on stop and go routes in a city environment. Not too far back in the Fleet & Depots thread, there was a post about Yukon's NGs having issues in Manhattan. 

Does make me wonder why they don’t run CNG buses on SI, since even CNG Orion Vs and VIIs were meant for these higher speed routes.

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31 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I personally  believe that Castleton and Charleston should get a small batch of the new LFS so they can displace all the LFS buses they took from Yukon back to its rightfully place

I swear you have some ocd on 40 ft 2015-16 units being sequential or something.

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11 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Does make me wonder why they don’t run CNG buses on SI, since even CNG Orion Vs and VIIs were meant for these higher speed routes.

I don't think that SI depots have the right equipment for CNG. 

The (MTA) should have converted a lot of NG's to diesel and have them assigned to SI depots. (like 3563)

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1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

I don't think that SI depots have the right equipment for CNG. 

They don't, hence why none run there.

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

The (MTA) should have converted a lot of NG's to diesel and have them assigned to SI depots. (like 3563)

It's not worth the expense.

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2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

so they can displace all the LFS buses they took from Yukon back to its rightfully place

They are in their right place: at Department of Buses. Buses are not property of their respective depots.

Wherever DOB decides a bus should go is immaterial...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I personally believe that Castleton and Charleston should get a small batch of the new LFS so they can displace all the LFS buses they took from Yukon back to its rightfully place

i don't know why anyone hasn't actually taken the time to engage letalone explain this, but for one, personal belief has no part to play in why buses are swapped, letalone remain in sequential, delivered order (which is a literal joke these days, see the xd40/60 orders of late) the D.O.B. actually swaps buses based on MILEAGE (and to a lesser degree, maintenance records) THIS is why buses will (for the most part) NEVER remain in sequential order. certain depots have high(er) mileage than others, and depending on the depot's run/trip output is what determines what buses stay where and for how long. other departments in this city/state do mileage swaps with their vehicles for the same purpose (MTA) does, and has done, since time & memorial. in closing, there's no such thing as "rightful" (or rightfully) place, for these buses... in exception of the Flatbush 42xx series NG's. Flatbush is their rightful place. anyway, hopefully this will put a lid on this incessant OCD bs about buses being in numerical order... it's tiresome, time consuming and pointless tbh. 

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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6 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i don't know why anyone hasn't actually taken the time to engage let alone explain this, but for one, personal belief has no part to play in why buses are swapped, letalone remain in sequential, delivered order (which is a literal joke these days, see the xd40/60 orders of late) the D.O.B. actually swaps buses based on MILEAGE (and to a lesser degree, maintenance records) THIS is why buses will (for the most part) NEVER remain in sequential order. certain depots have high(er) mileage than others, and depending on the depot's run/trip output is what determines what buses stay where and for how long. other departments in this city/state do mileage swaps with their vehicles for the same purpose (MTA) does, and has done, since time & memorial. in closing, there's no such thing as "rightful" (or rightfully) place, for these buses... in exception of the Flatbush 42xx series NG's. Flatbush is their rightful place. anyway, hopefully this will put a lid on this incessant OCD bs about buses being in numerical order... it's tiresome, time consuming and pointless tbh. 

Another example I’d like to point out is Kingsbridge 43xx buses.  Simultaneously in the same situation as the Flatbush 42xx buses. However, those Kingsbridge buses are finally being moved to Manhattan and Brooklyn slowly. They have so much mileage in the Bronx that it is about time for those buses to venture outside The Bronx. 

However, in due time those NG’s will be out of The Bronx. 

Excellent points: @EastFlatbushLarry

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10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I don't think that SI depots have the right equipment for CNG. 

The (MTA) should have converted a lot of NG's to diesel and have them assigned to SI depots. (like 3563)

Nah, they should just be running straight diesels on SI and be done with it.

 

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11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I swear you have some ocd on 40 ft 2015-16 units being sequential or something.

That is somewhat true. This does extend to the XD40s from 2014-15 units, and the 2016-17 XD60s, and to some extent, the newest buses.

Recently, when I did some calculations for the XDE40 order from the Fleet & Depots thread, I did not take to account fleet numbers because those are moot. All I needed were the original quantities for the 2014-15 models, projected assignments for the 2018-19 models, and I was set.

26 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

Nah, they should just be running straight diesels on SI and be done with it.

 

That’s the plan for Staten Island. 77 LFS buses to Yukon would displace the 2009-10 Orion VII Hybrids to Fresh Pond and Manhattanville. From there, they will be all diesel, until some XE60s do test runs on the distant isle to see how they fair in all types of conditions. I was also told that the next wave of buses for them would be electric.

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38 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

That is somewhat true. This does extend to the XD40s from 2014-15 units, and the 2016-17 XD60s, and to some extent, the newest buses.

Recently, when I did some calculations for the XDE40 order from the Fleet & Depots thread, I did not take to account fleet numbers because those are moot. All I needed were the original quantities for the 2014-15 models, projected assignments for the 2018-19 models, and I was set.

That’s the plan for Staten Island. 77 LFS buses to Yukon would displace the 2009-10 Orion VII Hybrids to Fresh Pond and Manhattanville. From there, they will be all diesel, until some XE60s do test runs on the distant isle to see how they fair in all types of conditions. I was also told that the next wave of buses for them would be electric.

My main point was that straight diesels should have already been in place on SI, and not hybrids.

Makes me laugh how all of you put so much stock into the hybrids, CNGs, and now, the electrics. The purchase order DDOT inked with New Flyer had XDE40s tagging out at an additional $167,000 per bus, and those were not ordered. In fact, the last time the "let's pay more taxes for regional transportation" crowd flew that flag up the pole (nobody saluted), both SMART and DDOT let it be known they were NOT going to be buying hybrids in the near future (and had it so noted in the regional transit plans) because of lack of savings overall for extra amounts spent, as well as maintenance problems.

In the times that I've attempted to find "real numbers" that back the use of hybrids and CNGs over straight diesels -- and I've gone to what should be "THE" source for such information: ALTOONA -- nothing really sticks out to show a superior advantage. In that regard, as the MTA touted in their "Farewell, RTS" press release, they have all these "clean" buses running around -- and are proud that they're so eco-conscious -- yet they produce NO numbers showing how the hybrids/CNGs have cost them less to operate over the years of spending extra money not to just purchase them, but to continue to support them on the road.

Now the fascination with electrics. If you're not on the "European Plan" with electric rates (peak/non-peak usage billing), you're all gonna be to pay for the added burden to your grid once those electric buses become more common. Those $2.75 rides are going to be much higher, AND you'll be paying more at home to support your rides around town.

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12 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

My main point was that straight diesels should have already been in place on SI, and not hybrids.

Makes me laugh how all of you put so much stock into the hybrids, CNGs, and now, the electrics. The purchase order DDOT inked with New Flyer had XDE40s tagging out at an additional $167,000 per bus, and those were not ordered. In fact, the last time the "let's pay more taxes for regional transportation" crowd flew that flag up the pole (nobody saluted), both SMART and DDOT let it be known they were NOT going to be buying hybrids in the near future (and had it so noted in the regional transit plans) because of lack of savings overall for extra amounts spent, as well as maintenance problems.

In the times that I've attempted to find "real numbers" that back the use of hybrids and CNGs over straight diesels -- and I've gone to what should be "THE" source for such information: ALTOONA -- nothing really sticks out to show a superior advantage. In that regard, as the MTA touted in their "Farewell, RTS" press release, they have all these "clean" buses running around -- and are proud that they're so eco-conscious -- yet they produce NO numbers showing how the hybrids/CNGs have cost them less to operate over the years of spending extra money not to just purchase them, but to continue to support them on the road.

Now the fascination with electrics. If you're not on the "European Plan" with electric rates (peak/non-peak usage billing), you're all gonna be to pay for the added burden to your grid once those electric buses become more common. Those $2.75 rides are going to be much higher, AND you'll be paying more at home to support your rides around town.

Being a (former) Left Coaster, CNGs and Hybrids were crap with their slushboxes hard-shifting into 3rd fear, but they were purchased because the all-knowing academics that make up the California Air Resources Board mandated them.

That they did make an impact on bus-created CO2 was nice, but it being California, those new transit riders were replaced by more drivers.

However, given that SI always smells like diesel for reasons in addition to the stink from Elizabeth, NJ, and the petrochemical infrastructure and (former) GM plant in Linden, NJ, clean air buses that could actually use the clean air drivetrain could make a difference in stopping the 460k of us stuck there getting that lung cancer.  (Given My father just died two weeks ago from Stage IV, I’m a bit conscious of it now.)

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On 2/4/2019 at 7:05 AM, B35 via Church said:

Oh, here we go with the Staten Island is the forgotten borough bit again.....

For those of you who have been around transit long enough to see that politics do play a part: When we had Giuliani as the mayor, he made sure that Staten Island was priority number one and 3 1/2 years later (1996-1999), Staten Island (YU & CA at that time) received: 240 MCI coaches and 210 Orion V 6000 series buses on top of 70 Orion V buses they received since 1995. And all their RTS buses went elsewhere in the city with the 9000 series to JA & UP, the 48xx to Brooklyn, then gone. That’s just a prime example that today’s SI politicians wanna cry about why SI doesn’t get new buses like they used do

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6 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

For those of you who have been around transit long enough to see that politics do play a part: When we had Giuliani as the mayor, he made sure that Staten Island was priority number one and 3 1/2 years later (1996-1999), Staten Island (YU & CA at that time) received: 240 MCI coaches and 210 Orion V 6000 series buses on top of 70 Orion V buses they received since 1995. And all their RTS buses went elsewhere in the city with the 9000 series to JA & UP, the 48xx to Brooklyn, then gone. That’s just a prime example that today’s SI politicians wanna cry about why SI doesn’t get new buses like they used do

Transit and politics go hand in hand on Staten Island and I am talking for about over 50 years. I have posted here sometime ago the saga of Borough President Robert Connor and his refusal to grant the MTA more than one year on express bus routes as he wanted to unload his ex-wife (a Pouch who owned Pouch Terminal). Then there was  late Senator John Marchi who put into law 15% of all bus purchases must be sent to Staten Island, it did not help. I remember when they sent new buses to Staten Island and the right side mirror went crash as it went through the Bridge toll booth. 

It seems that nothing has changed on SI.

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31 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

Transit and politics go hand in hand on Staten Island and I am talking for about over 50 years. I have posted here sometime ago the saga of Borough President Robert Connor and his refusal to grant the MTA more than one year on express bus routes as he wanted to unload his ex-wife (a Pouch who owned Pouch Terminal). Then there was  late Senator John Marchi who put into law 15% of all bus purchases must be sent to Staten Island, it did not help. I remember when they sent new buses to Staten Island and the right side mirror went crash as it went through the Bridge toll booth. 

It seems that nothing has changed on SI.

To me there's something called replacing old buses, changing fleets for milage purposes, and just being greedy. 

 

60% of the time it's just Staten Island being greedy. With the exception of the first coach units being "tested" in SI and retiring the Orion Vs and aging MCIs there, there is technically no real reason for SI to always have new buses.

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