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Around the Horn

Bay Ridge area politicians call for split R train

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1 hour ago, bulk88 said:

1968 Plan For Action which involved converting northern half of Pelham line to Div B, Whitlock Avenue going north, to go down NEC to Oak Point yard to SAS, but the 6 train stub that ended at Hunts Point Avenue would deadhead with Div A stock to Westchester Yard every day down the now Div B Pelham express El track.

Those are very different (💩) ideas.

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On 7/1/2019 at 4:22 PM, bulk88 said:

WillyB was built with SIX tracks. Right now it has two tracks.

https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.10694988.1439322907!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.JPG

I've heard of a napkin proposal to rebuild from Marcy to Myrtle to be 4 tracks. J train skips Marcy and Flushing Ave after Myrtle making the J faster for eastern riders. Deinterlining M and J except for going over the bridge (balloon loop).  Lorimer and Hewes are closed/combined/rebuilt into a Union Ave, ADA, transfer to G, 2 island new express stop. Flushing Ave has an express track built over the current express track. Myrtle either has a separate M platforms or Islands. Possibly stacked islands (think Queensboro Plaza). Essex Street is rebuilt to 4 tracks so M and J never have a conflict for a platform. There already is a little bit of balloon loop operations already at Essex Street with how M will wait doors open at Essex taking on additional customers while a J passes infront onto WillyB. MacArthur, 12 street ,19 street BART has something similar. 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rail_Tracks_map_pattern_24A.svg

 

An example of balloon looping or simultaneous loading, but most metros that do that only do it for the merge (3 tracks) not for split direction for cost reasons. Since train separation distance is 10-15 seconds, platform dwell time becomes highest capacity limit, not ATP. ^^^^ track layout allows huge dwell times without affecting TPH.

If all this were to happen, may as well bury the Jamaica Line under Broadway so Bushwick and Bed-Stuy lose an eyesore viaduct.

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18 hours ago, Lex said:

Those are very different (💩) ideas.

But the proposal of Flushing Line converted to Div B with Main Street being destination of either N/W/Q, and leaving Queensboro Plaza to 34 Hudson Yards with Steinway Tubes as Div A, means the IRT Flushing line stub will deadhead to corona yard over Div B tracks.

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3 hours ago, bulk88 said:

But the proposal of Flushing Line converted to Div B with Main Street being destination of either N/W/Q, and leaving Queensboro Plaza to 34 Hudson Yards with Steinway Tubes as Div A, means the IRT Flushing line stub will deadhead to corona yard over Div B tracks.

And that's all they have in common.

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Posted (edited)

Guess what’s back? The 4th Avenue work train convoy!

https://new.mta.info/planned-service-changes/subway

(D), (N) and (R) trains once every 12 minutes starting at 7 PM "until further notice." How soon till the articles about how bad and unreliable the (R) train is start to resurface?

 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Guess what’s back? The 4th Avenue work train convoy!

https://new.mta.info/planned-service-changes/subway

(D), (N) and (R) trains once every 12 minutes starting at 7 PM "until further notice." How soon till the articles about how bad and unreliable the (R) train is start to resurface?

 

I'm sure pretty quick with the request to split the (R) again.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Guess what’s back? The 4th Avenue work train convoy!

https://new.mta.info/planned-service-changes/subway

(D), (N) and (R) trains once every 12 minutes starting at 7 PM "until further notice." How soon till the articles about how bad and unreliable the (R) train is start to resurface?

 

This has been going on for months. But reverse peak travel on the (R) isn't all that strong from 4th, and by the time that garbage service hits Queens, full frequency service would have been garbage too so it makes little difference. 

The supplement for this GO is criminal. IINM there are some gaps close to 20 mins in the (D) nb from Brooklyn (most of which, to be fair, are filled with (D)s running light up Culver to Bway Laff). 

Edited by RR503

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3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

This has been going on for months. But reverse peak travel on the (R) isn't all that strong from 4th, and by the time that garbage service hits Queens, full frequency service would have been garbage too so it makes little difference. 

The supplement for this GO is criminal. IINM there are some gaps close to 20 mins in the (D) nb from Brooklyn (most of which, to be fair, are filled with (D)s running light up Culver). 

What were the gaps in (D) service like before the supplement? They had that one (D) starting at Broadway-Lafayette after running light up Culver.

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Quote

WORK TRAIN STAGING
Until further notice, Mon to Fri, 7 PM to 10:15 PM
(R) Trains run approximately every 12 minutes

• From 7 PM until 8 PM, (R) trains departing Forest Hills-71 Av in Queens will run approximately every 12 minutes.
 

You have got to be f**king kidding me...

7 PM out of Forest Hills means a service cut for anyone leaving Lower Manhattan at the tail end of rush hour (AKA the shoulder period; the scheduled 7:06 gets to Cortlandt at 7:56) and those trains are packed enough already...

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This is becoming normal for some Subway lines after PM Rush they are cutting down services, reverse peak slow down, some Supplement lines (3)(5)(B)(W) may stop earlier now or stop running on Weekends, reverse peak cut down. (4) running local in Brooklyn to New Lots Avenue earlier now.

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15 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

You have got to be f**king kidding me...

7 PM out of Forest Hills means a service cut for anyone leaving Lower Manhattan at the tail end of rush hour (AKA the shoulder period; the scheduled 7:06 gets to Cortlandt at 7:56) and those trains are packed enough already...

I want to say that a split (R), with the Brooklyn section terminating somewhere along the Nassau St Line (Essex, Chambers or even Broadway Junction) would come in handy for situations like this. But the Queens/Manhattan section of the (R) would have to terminate at Whitehall, which would then force (W) service to end early.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Those Politicians R Mad Crazy and Corrupted Lobbyist Bureaucratic Scums.

I dunno...I feel like the four politicians mentioned in the OP in this thread are actually taking some real initiative by contacting Andy Byford directly with theirs and their constituents’ concerns about the current (R) service. Whether or not the result measures up to their satisfaction is anyone’s guess, but you can’t say they aren’t at least trying to get something to change.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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3 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Those Politicians R Mad Crazy and Corrupted Lobbyist Bureaucratic Scums.

Three of the politicians that signed this letter are my local representatives and they're anything but.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/19/2019 at 7:14 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But it doesn’t need to be doing triple-duty on three of the subway’s busy trunk lines. Most of the other B-Division local train are local on no more than two trunk lines. Prior to May 1987, so was the (R).

I know this is a late reply and I know you and others might not agree with me on this, but I believe the (R) would still be able to run on time (at most 80 percent, give or take), if it weren’t for the endless Queens Blvd track and signal work (full closure or not, or should I say...just track work in general anywhere along the line's route) and the three merges it makes along its run. The 60th Street tubes (including Lexington Avenue-59th Street and 5th Avenue-59th Street) are also another reason for the (R)’s ever-lasting poor on-time performance, because it is two tracks instead of four tracks. Why was it built that way by the way? Is 60th Street far too narrow for a four-track subway? Because had that happen, the (R) would only merge with the (M) and (W) along its run on weekdays and be all my itself throughout its entire run on weekends; all the while as the (N) would run fully express along the Broadway Line, both weekdays and weekends. Neither the (M) or the (W) run frequently enough to delay the (R) anyway as they are all scheduled at 10 minute headways off-peak. I dunno about rush hours though. It would also allow the (R) to run more frequently on weekends, though they probably won’t since the agency feels it is cheaper to have the (N) local in Manhattan north of Canal Street whenever the (W) is not running and that the (R) is a very long line.

But here in reality, the only way to fix the (R) is to have all Broadway Express trains to and from SAS, and all Broadway Local trains to and from either Astoria or Queens Blvd. I mean, really, how many people use the (R) to connect to the Lexington Avenue Express trains on a daily basis? And isn’t Broadway and 6 Avenue one block away from one another despite the sidewalk distance itself being exceptionally long? The subway’s complexity set up is a big reason for its systemwide delays. With fewer merges, trains would finally be able to run much more frequently than average.

Edited by Jemorie
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Let's check in on the (R) train shall we:

67464060_1106052606253061_87569230149577

I'm so tired of this piss poor service everyday... Thank god my train was coming in right as I came down the steps.

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32 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Let's check in on the (R) train shall we:

67464060_1106052606253061_87569230149577

I'm so tired of this piss poor service everyday... Thank god my train was coming in right as I came down the steps.

It's the same deal on the (A) train for me. Similar to the (R), if something goes wrong on one part of the line (like the south channel bridge is open, or a delay happens on a merge), the whole lines delayed. Very annoying indeed

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Posted (edited)

@Jemorie I’m glad you replied. It’s not a late reply. You have plenty of valid points in your reply. No doubt the (R) would run better with fewer merges and reverse branching. An Astoria (R) would be just that. I also agree that not having the (N) switch from express to local at 34th (and Prince on weekends...oh yes, there are merging delays there on weekends!) would allow not just the (R), but all Broadway Line service to run more reliably and frequently. But that would require the (MTA) to, well, run the system a little less on the cheap than they do now. 

As for QBL, even before the CBTC prep work started, that line had problems. Between the very high ridership, the piss poor terminal ops at Continental, only one (narrow-platform) express station between 71st and Queens Plaza, the long (F), (M) and (R) routes, and of course, the multiple merges that take place at Continental, 36th and Queens Plaza, it’s amazing when you go one full day with nothing going all wrong on that line. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Let's check in on the (R) train shall we:

67464060_1106052606253061_87569230149577

I'm so tired of this piss poor service everyday... Thank god my train was coming in right as I came down the steps.

The fact (MTA) knows this happens and is literally like “The hell you want us to do about it?” speaks volumes.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Let's check in on the (R) train shall we:

67464060_1106052606253061_87569230149577

I'm so tired of this piss poor service everyday... Thank god my train was coming in right as I came down the steps.

I want an (R) line review, like what was done with the (L), (F) , (G) , and the (A)(C). I hope Congressman Rose, State Senator Gounardes and others push for it. This garbage has gone on for too long.

This is why a review was not done in response to a request by Councilmember Gentile

Quote

Chairman Prendergast has committed to undertake full line reviews of all subway lines in the system. Since 2009, NYCT has completed reviews of the F, L, G and recently the A and C lines. Since all of the reviews conducted thus far have focused on the subway’s lettered lines (like the R), NYCT plans to select one or more lines on the numbered lines as the next line(s) to review. A review of the R has not yet been scheduled because if we were to conduct a line review of the R now, it would be obsolete almost immediately, because the opening of the Second Avenue Subway will significantly change overall service on the Broadway Line. The opening of Second Avenue Subway will affect how many people ride the R and how the R operates, so it would be premature for us to conduct an R line review on the cusp of such a change.

SAS is done. Now is the time to do the review.

Edited by Union Tpke

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Posted (edited)

Fully agreed. They’re out of excuses now. And they better not try to use CBTC installation as an excuse, because 4th Ave isn’t scheduled to get CBTC for a long time.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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17 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Let's check in on the (R) train shall we:

67464060_1106052606253061_87569230149577

I'm so tired of this piss poor service everyday... Thank god my train was coming in right as I came down the steps.

Exactly why i would have (W) trains serve Astoria-95 st all times except late nights....Subway is becoming teriible in terms of waiting times in certain parts of the city...Im gettin tired of hearing there's not enough this and that to make service better than this....300 dollars a ride for this....

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Posted (edited)

So (R) riders have to wait at least every 30min for a train to show that is unbelievable. And then on Weekends they always have trains sharing the same tracks which make it worse. Instead they should consider cutting one of them or do a short turn.

Edited by bwwnyc123

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