Bay Ridge area politicians call for split R train

[R68OnBroadway]

I still don't understand why they just don't send the  to Astoria on weekends when it isn't being butchered;  riders would love 8 minute frequencies and not being stuck behind a R46- in the grand scheme of things the  should both be going to Astoria full time anyways...

[bwwnyc123]

Weekdays normal service SB going Express in Manhattan could use the merge crossovers south of 57 St-7Av and NB merge to Local tracks instead of in-between 34 St and 42 St. The and could handle 49 St without .

Edited August 4, 2019 by bwwnyc123

[R68OnBroadway]

32 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Weekdays normal service SB going Express in Manhattan could use the merge crossovers south of 57 St-7Av and NB merge to Local tracks instead of in-between 34 St and 42 St. The and could handle 49 St without .

How about no? You've only moved the merge to 57th instead. This obsession people have that the  must run to Astoria is ridiculous...

[bwwnyc123]

21 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

How about no? You've only moved the merge to 57th instead. This obsession people have that the  must run to Astoria is ridiculous...

The N currently does run to Astoria.

[R68OnBroadway]

2 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

The N currently does run to Astoria.

I know it does, but under any plan to make Broadway reliable, you're going to need to send it to 96th and either de-interline 11th or just beef up  service. 

[bwwnyc123]

The merge at 57 St is better than between 34 St and 42 St.

[bwwnyc123]

Right but they don't need two full time routes serving 96 St all times.

[R68OnBroadway]

8 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Right but they don't need two full time routes serving 96 St all times.

I say this proves you don't know what you're talking about...

[bwwnyc123]

and are both full time lines they don't need to serve 96 St all times like overnights one of them has to stop serving 96 St.

[bwwnyc123]

4 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I say this proves you don't know what you're talking about...

 

Just now, bwwnyc123 said:

and are both full time lines they don't need to serve 96 St all times like overnights one of them has to stop serving 96 St.

 

[R68OnBroadway]

14 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

and are both full time lines they don't need to serve 96 St all times like overnights one of them has to stop serving 96 St.

And for what reason? If service levels are too high overnight then just cut the frequencies. No need to confuse people by sending the  somewhere else overnight especially considering the fact that if anything, 2nd would have higher demand overnight than Astoria...

[LGA Link N Train]

19 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

and are both full time lines they don't need to serve 96 St all times like overnights one of them has to stop serving 96 St.

If that’s the case, then truncate one of the routes in Lower Manhattan or Brooklyn for Late Nights. Have the  (Or ) take over Astoria full time, and call it a day. 

The only way I’ll agree with having the  stay at Astoria is if SAS Phase 3 gets built as planned, in which there will be no way to send  trains up 96. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by LaGuardia Link N Tra

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Weekdays normal service SB going Express in Manhattan could use the merge crossovers south of 57 St-7Av and NB merge to Local tracks instead of in-between 34 St and 42 St. The and could handle 49 St without .

I agree that the  and  can serve 49th Street without the . The  no longer terminates at 57 St-7 Av anyway. However, if you still want the  to serve Astoria under your proposal, then the crossover switch from express to local and vice-verse would be better off north of 57 St-7 Av, not south of it.

Generally and realistically speaking, I gotta go with both R68 and LGA with having all Broadway Express trains serve SAS full time and all Broadway Local trains serve Astoria full time. Not Queens Blvd though to be honest. 6 Av and Broadway are only one block away from each other despite the sidewalk distance being exceptionally long anyway so.

[R68OnBroadway]

19 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

If that’s the case, then truncate one of the routes in Lower Manhattan or Brooklyn for Late Nights. Have the  (Or ) take over Astoria full time, and call it a day. 

The only way I’ll agree with having the  stay at Astoria is if SAS Phase 3 gets built as planned, in which there will be no way to send  trains up 96. 

Even if phase 3 is built (which I don’t see happening for another 30 years), it’s better to just keep the  at 96th until the issue of the  arises.

[JeremiahC99]

22 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Generally and realistically speaking, I gotta go with both R68 and LGA with having all Broadway Express trains serve SAS full time and all Broadway Local trains serve Astoria full time. Not Queens Blvd though to be honest. 6 Av and Broadway are only one block away from each other despite the sidewalk distance being exceptionally long anyway so.

I agree as well. If you run both the  and  at 6 minute interval (10 trains per hour), Second Avenue and Broadway Express service would see a train every three minutes, which is a big boon for the Upper East Side, and compete with the , , and . With the  on Astoria at 15 trains per hour, we would see more frequent service on the Astoria, Broadway, and in Brooklyn.

[Lawrence St]

If Phase 3 gets built wouldnt the have a merging delay at 72nd St?

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

If Phase 3 gets built wouldnt the have a merging delay at 72nd St?

Most likely.

Delays at Prospect Park, delays at Canal St, Delays at 34-57th St, then at 2 Av.

TBH, for how brief it is, Broadway Express seems pretty useless and unnecessary.

[JeremiahC99]

8 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Most likely.

Delays at Prospect Park, delays at Canal St, Delays at 34-57th St, then at 2 Av.

TBH, for how brief it is, Broadway Express seems pretty useless and unnecessary.

A Broadway Express In Second Avenue allows for direct access between the Upper East Side and West Midtown, which sure beats taking the  to 59th Street and transferring there. From here, the Broadway Express trains would go into Brooklyn via the Manhattan Bridge. Since the  and  travel via Lower Manhattan, Broadway express allows for faster service into West Midtown and into Brooklyn. In fact, there was one person in an MTA Video who said their trip from Upper East Side to BAM at Barclays Center was much quicker with the new line. For more information:

If they has the  to Astoria at 15 trains per hour and the  and  both on Second Avenue at 10 trains per hour, then we will really see when more frequent and reliable service.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Most likely.

Delays at Prospect Park, delays at Canal St, Delays at 34-57th St, then at 2 Av.

TBH, for how brief it is, Broadway Express seems pretty useless and unnecessary.

The first thing you have to understand about express runs is that they're designed for crowd control not speed. So yeah its "brief" but it allows for the to handle most Midtown <--> Brooklyn passengers over the bridge which creates room on the for Lower Manhattan <--> Brooklyn passengers via the tunnel

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

A Broadway Express In Second Avenue allows for direct access between the Upper East Side and West Midtown, which sure beats taking the  to 59th Street and transferring there. From here, the Broadway Express trains would go into Brooklyn via the Manhattan Bridge. Since the  and  travel via Lower Manhattan, Broadway express allows for faster service into West Midtown and into Brooklyn. In fact, there was one person in an MTA Video who said their trip from Upper East Side to BAM at Barclays Center was much quicker with the new line. For more information:

If they has the  to Astoria at 15 trains per hour and the  and  both on Second Avenue at 10 trains per hour, then we will really see when more frequent and reliable service.

or the  could be cut off from Brooklyn and run only from 71 Av to Whitehall St and the  extended to Bay Ridge. This way, Queens Boulevard keeps their  designation, Astoria keeps their  designation, and Bay Ridge gets a more frequent service. We also end up doing away with 90-minute route run times, which increase the likelihood for delays.

Frequency

 - 10TPH - route run time 64 minutes

 - 10 TPH - route run time 66 minutes

 - 7 TPH (due to terminal constraints at Whitehall St and lower demand for Queens Blvd/Broadway service, but still a demand nonetheless, and a requirement due to inability to reroute Queens Boulevard locals to another Manhattan- trunk line (route run time - 52 minutes)

 -16TPH (with maybe 14TPH to Bay Ridge and remaining trains short-turn at 59 St-Brooklyn or Canal St) (route run time - 70 minutes)

Edited August 5, 2019 by darkstar8983

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I would be in favor of truncating the  at Whitehall (perhaps using the  or another letter for the designation).

[LGA Link N Train]

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

or the  could be cut off from Brooklyn and run only from 71 Av to Whitehall St and the  extended to Bay Ridge. This way, Queens Boulevard keeps their  designation, Astoria keeps their  designation, and Bay Ridge gets a more frequent service. We also end up doing away with 90-minute route run times, which increase the likelihood for delays.

Frequency

 - 10TPH - route run time 64 minutes

 - 10 TPH - route run time 66 minutes

 - 7 TPH (due to terminal constraints at Whitehall St and lower demand for Queens Blvd/Broadway service, but still a demand nonetheless, and a requirement due to inability to reroute Queens Boulevard locals to another Manhattan- trunk line (route run time - 52 minutes)

 -16TPH (with maybe 14TPH to Bay Ridge and remaining trains short-turn at 59 St-Brooklyn or Canal St) (route run time - 70 minutes)

This is a good plan. But if I were you, I’d switch the  and  designations. 

[darkstar8983]

8 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

This is a good plan. But if I were you, I’d switch the  and  designations. 

That would probably confuse more people than the previously mentioned idea

Its pretty much either confuse all of Queens or just confuse Bay Ridge

[Wallyhorse]

11 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

or the  could be cut off from Brooklyn and run only from 71 Av to Whitehall St and the  extended to Bay Ridge. This way, Queens Boulevard keeps their  designation, Astoria keeps their  designation, and Bay Ridge gets a more frequent service. We also end up doing away with 90-minute route run times, which increase the likelihood for delays.

Frequency

 - 10TPH - route run time 64 minutes

 - 10 TPH - route run time 66 minutes

 - 7 TPH (due to terminal constraints at Whitehall St and lower demand for Queens Blvd/Broadway service, but still a demand nonetheless, and a requirement due to inability to reroute Queens Boulevard locals to another Manhattan- trunk line (route run time - 52 minutes)

 -16TPH (with maybe 14TPH to Bay Ridge and remaining trains short-turn at 59 St-Brooklyn or Canal St) (route run time - 70 minutes)

There are a considerable number of old timers who would never accept the having a southern terminal OTHER than 95th-Bay Ridge (something I was reminded of when I was putting together some of my ideas in the past).  Keeping that in mind:

and  would both run as has been suggested to 96th and 2nd.

runs 95th-Bay Ridge to Essex full time with scheduled in-service yard runs that end and begin at Broadway Junction that are in the schedule.  Late nights and weekends could be extended to Metropolitan Avenue to replace the if the is not permanently extended after the shutdown ends.

becomes the full-time Broadway local, running to either 9th Avenue or Bay Parkway (alternating trains, late nights operating from 9th Avenue) to Astoria.  

The can be beefed up to become a full-time service to 71st-Continental if the  is taken off Broadway.  

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

That would probably confuse more people than the previously mentioned idea

Its pretty much either confuse all of Queens or just confuse Bay Ridge

That’s sort of what the  did with the current  service. They confused “all of Queens,” instead of just Middle Village and Ridgewood. Otherwise, we’d still have a  train (going to/from Metropolitan) and no  train today.

Edited August 5, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue