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Via Garibaldi 8

BREAKING NEWS: MTA won’t raise base subway fare, will eliminate MetroCard bonus: report

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21 hours ago, Deucey said:

Definitely getting to the point where even the convenience of not having to budget swipes by getting unlimited is outweighing the cost of paying $2.75 every time - especially since I'm not taking two buses and a train daily.

But for the life of me I can't figure out where all this fare revenue is going, nor why they're not pricing fares to break even.

The money is going to pay off interest in debt because the City and State are unwilling to pay for Capital Plans as they historically have.

This is mostly Cuomo (Sr's) fault. And Guiliani's.

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On 2/27/2019 at 5:27 PM, bobtehpanda said:

They should really cap the break-even point for the monthly at 40 rides. (4 weeks of 2 trips 5 days a week.)

I've been thinking for a while that with OMNY, fare capping should be introduced. Unlimiteds have hit a level where it's not much of a savings anymore.

I like the ideas of free rides after the 40th tap or capping the daily fare at like 7 bucks or something. Surpass that limit and you ride free the rest of the day.

That could encourage more ridership too.

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8 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

I've been thinking for a while that with OMNY, fare capping should be introduced. Unlimiteds have hit a level where it's not much of a savings anymore.

I like the ideas of free rides after the 40th tap or capping the daily fare at like 7 bucks or something. Surpass that limit and you ride free the rest of the day.

That could encourage more ridership too.

I feel that they might try to weasel their way out of daily caps because of "swipers/tappers"

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4 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I feel that they might try to weasel their way out of daily caps because of "swipers/tappers"

A problem since unlike other metros, NYC doesn't make you tap out, since the system uses flat fares.

One potential solution would be to make it impossible to tap the daily cap card at a station twice in a row in one day. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Caelestor said:

A problem since unlike other metros, NYC doesn't make you tap out, since the system uses flat fares.

One potential solution would be to make it impossible to tap the daily cap card at a station twice in a row in one day. 

There aren't many that do in my experience. I've only done it on BART, Airtrain and WMATA. But excluding Airtrain, those systems that do tend to get decent local and/or state subsidy or reimbursement, so that would have to be factored in if distance-based fares are a "no."

But aside from the real beggars, a "pay 40 fares and ride unlimited" scheme could reduce begging since now folks would be incentivized to use their own money to ride.

What you'd have to worry about is pooling - occasional riders using the same OMNY to get unlimited quickly.

Edited by Deucey
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Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2019 at 7:29 PM, Deucey said:

What you'd have to worry about is pooling - occasional riders using the same OMNY to get unlimited quickly.

This is actually a perfectly valid use of ten-trips on the LIRR.

There was a proposal a few years back where they proposed making the 30-day unlimited just a $99 90-ride ticket instead; IIRC the number of people who use more than 90 rides in 30 days is extremely small. But then people got all up in their feelings about "but unlimited".

Edited by bobtehpanda

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On 3/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, bobtehpanda said:

This is actually a perfectly valid use of ten-trips on the LIRR.

There was a proposal a few years back where they proposed making the 30-day unlimited just a $99 90-ride ticket instead; IIRC the number of people who use more than 90 rides in 30 days is extremely small. But then people got all up in their feelings about "but unlimited".

Listen, there is a certain freedom that comes with not having to worry about the fare for a month.

I can't blame people for not wanting to give it up.

*Stares jealously at the €72 30-Day all zones Navigo pass*

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4 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

Listen, there is a certain freedom that comes with not having to worry about the fare for a month.

I can't blame people for not wanting to give it up.

*Stares jealously at the €72 30-Day all zones Navigo pass*

I’ll say..... It helps when I work one of my days off.

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4 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Listen, there is a certain freedom that comes with not having to worry about the fare for a month.

I can't blame people for not wanting to give it up.

*Stares jealously at the €72 30-Day all zones Navigo pass*

Visiting a place is different from living somewhere and PAYING TAXES.  The fares in Europe are low because they pay a ton in taxes to subsidize them.  Of course it also helps that most of these countries are small to begin with and have things like oil to off-set any other high costs, so they can do things like offer low fares or free transportation.  Norway has all sorts of things for its citizens.  It has oil and highly educated workforce... Fewer people on welfare that are working and paying into system as opposed to taking from it allows you to spend more money on things like transportation.  

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Listen, there is a certain freedom that comes with not having to worry about the fare for a month.

I can't blame people for not wanting to give it up.

*Stares jealously at the €72 30-Day all zones Navigo pass*

90 rides would require you to ride 3 times a day, or 4 times a weekday.

Other than some savvy PrimeNow deliverers I don't see who'd use more, and quite frankly I don't think the limited use cases are worthy of the privilege.

Edited by bobtehpanda

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 12:22 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Visiting a place is different from living somewhere and PAYING TAXES.  The fares in Europe are low because they pay a ton in taxes to subsidize them.  Of course it also helps that most of these countries are small to begin with and have things like oil to off-set any other high costs, so they can do things like offer low fares or free transportation.  Norway has all sorts of things for its citizens.  It has oil and highly educated workforce... Fewer people on welfare that are working and paying into system as opposed to taking from it allows you to spend more money on things like transportation.  

Oh my god, how could I POSSIBLY not have known that? Geez, you never fail to get on my nerves.

I have friends in multiple EU countries. When I wanna research shit like this, I talk to them personally. I don't need you.

This doesn't discount anything I said since it's very possible to have lower fares. Literally all the sensible and sustainable (and more importantly, elastic) funding sources, outside of CP, have not been mentioned by our Maoh up in Albany.

Edited by LTA1992

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 2:54 PM, bobtehpanda said:

90 rides would require you to ride 3 times a day, or 4 times a weekday.

Other than some savvy PrimeNow deliverers I don't see who'd use more, and quite frankly I don't think the limited use cases are worthy of the privilege.

Another one stating the obvious. Do you also point out the sun in the sky as well?

And more than one person can use a card. People are definitely getting their money's worth. When I don't need to worry about the fare, I travel way more. I'm confident it's the same for most who have unlimiteds. To get their money's worth.

If people aren't getting their money's worth in their normal travels, I doubt they'd buy one. Especially if you're around my age. We're too broke to waste money on something we KNOW isn't worth the price.

Edited by LTA1992
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Oh my god, how could I POSSIBLY not have known that? Geez, you never fail to get on my nerves.

I have friends in multiple EU countries. When I wanna research shit like this, I talk to them personally. I don't need you.

This doesn't discount anything I said since it's very possible to have lower fares. Literally all the sensible and sustainable (and more importantly, elastic) funding sources, outside of CP, have not been mentioned by our Maoh up in Albany.

Well why the hell are you bringing it up for then? It’s a moot point to go on incessantly about the fare structure there knowing why they are low in the first place. Ever since you’ve been there, you’ve gone on non-stop about how low their fares are. Enough taxes are paid to make them low, and quite frankly, enough taxes are paid here as well. To be brunt, stop acting like things are so grandiose there, because their **** stinks just the same. The difference is I don’t need to *ask someone*. I lived there and know the deal. Plenty of problems in the EU as well. When you enact all sorts of taxes, they eventually catch up to you. Just ask France about that...

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, bobtehpanda said:

This is actually a perfectly valid use of ten-trips on the LIRR.

There was a proposal a few years back where they proposed making the 30-day unlimited just a $99 90-ride ticket instead; IIRC the number of people who use more than 90 rides in 30 days is extremely small. But then people got all up in their feelings about "but unlimited".

In Manhat I've swiped in on unlimited to avoid rain or cold or pedestrian crossings without ever boarding a train. 7/8 Penn station and GCT/Shuttle Platform/7 platform and TS/PABT are good complexes that can be used to avoid rain.

Edited by bulk88
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Why don't we implement a tap out system? Baltimore MTA, and MARTA requires you to tap out despite it being flat fare. All we have to do is update the turnstiles and that will make things more efficient and reduce fare beating. 

I am sick and tired of seeing people hop while I pay full price. I'm starting to think that we need to tap in/out AND have police checking to see if you tap in randomly (if not a $110 fine)

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16 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Why don't we implement a tap out system? Baltimore MTA, and MARTA requires you to tap out despite it being flat fare. All we have to do is update the turnstiles and that will make things more efficient and reduce fare beating. 

I am sick and tired of seeing people hop while I pay full price. I'm starting to think that we need to tap in/out AND have police checking to see if you tap in randomly (if not a $110 fine)

MTA Planning wont be able to fudge O/D/trunk line load level statistics anymore with tap out. 1 time Reduced Fare was reduced to a metrocard from a GO "bus" transfer. I've seen metros in europe with tap in+gates, but must keep fare media, even if paper QR "tokens" to the end of the ride. Making NYers do that without tapout will be hard.  St George used to have 2 way turnstyles in 2000s, now its just 50/50 directional split turnstyles without a "ratchet" effect, I guess they didn't want to keep parts on hand for the unique 2 mag readers on each turnstyle that used to be at St George. Also booths would have to issue 1 time use fare cards for comped rides, no buzzed in anymore, if onboard checks+tapout.

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The MTA could just buy new turnstiles instead of frankensteining their current ones for the three fare media now. The current turnstiles have so many issues (no ADA version, easy to jump, easy to duck under) that quite frankly we should toss em out.

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3 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

The MTA could just buy new turnstiles instead of frankensteining their current ones for the three fare media now. The current turnstiles have so many issues (no ADA version, easy to jump, easy to duck under) that quite frankly we should toss em out.

That's too cost prohibitive...  468 stations with all of the numerous turnstiles... That would be a nightmare to deal with cost wise... Material, manual labor. construction... Forget it....

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5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

468 stations with all of the numerous turnstiles...

*472 stations, The 2nd Ave Subway added more stations.

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Just now, Lil 57 said:

*472 stations, The 2nd Ave Subway added more stations.

Right... Forgot about those... Even worse then...

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26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's too cost prohibitive...  468 stations with all of the numerous turnstiles... That would be a nightmare to deal with cost wise... Material, manual labor. construction... Forget it....

They just mentioned reviewing all the fare area setups to reduce fare evasion anyways. Other cash-strapped agencies have done the same thing before.

Only in New York do we succumb to some weird fantasy where all our problems are sO MuCh mOrE dIFfIcUlT. Instead we tolerate the loud-ass emergency door alarms any time someone with luggage wants to get in, and people jumping and ducking turnstiles.

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9 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

They just mentioned reviewing all the fare area setups to reduce fare evasion anyways. Other cash-strapped agencies have done the same thing before.

Only in New York do we succumb to some weird fantasy where all our problems are sO MuCh mOrE dIFfIcUlT. Instead we tolerate the loud-ass emergency door alarms any time someone with luggage wants to get in, and people jumping and ducking turnstiles.

Well I'm all for them finding ways to enforce the fare, but I think there are other ways to do this without busting the budget.  Let them do this later on when they aren't as strapped for cash.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's too cost prohibitive...  468 stations with all of the numerous turnstiles... That would be a nightmare to deal with cost wise... Material, manual labor. construction... Forget it....

They’re gonna have to do it anyway - like they did when they switched from horizontal to the current vertical turnstiles.

Even MARTA in Atlanta bit the bullet and switched to HETs: https://images.app.goo.gl/3qjYxRzNXthbNpAp8

Edited by Deucey

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Deucey said:

They’re gonna have to do it anyway - like they did when they switched from horizontal to the current vertical turnstiles.

Even MARTA in Atlanta bit the bullet and switched to HETs: https://images.app.goo.gl/3qjYxRzNXthbNpAp8

Sure, but it doesn't make sense to spend money when you don't have a secure funding source... They waste enough money as it is.  Focus on the service first. This is not paramount.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sure, but it doesn't make sense to spend money when you don't have a secure funding source... They waste enough money as it is.  Focus on the service first. This is not paramount.

Yeah, but you also don't want to get into "penny wise, pound foolish" territory, like when they painted over dirty tiles.

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