Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
Flatbush SBS Duece

Restoring the B41 in Brooklyn

Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Multiple reasons:

  1. Lack of enforcement by the NYPD has allowed dollar vans to fester out of control.
  2. The prevalence of dollar vans (nowadays almost exclusively cutaway vehicles) has taken ridership off of the B41.
  3. Runs get cut as a result of decreased ridership (but the demand is there as shown by the dollar vans).

What I see needing to be done, in no particular order:

  1. Any XE60 buses should be dedicated to Flatbush Depot for the B41 (which would warrant it with stop and go traffic) for increased capacity.
  2. State Trooper/MTA Police crackdown on the dollar vans (since the NYPD won't do so) with a contracted towing company for impounding vehicles.
  3. Bergen Beach service would be designated B40 as a distinct route.
  4. Select Bus Service introduction to the B41 and an Eagle Team/MTA Police/State Trooper enforcement. (On the B82 SBS, some Eagle Team stops have resulted in as many as 12 people being removed from a bus for fare evasion.)
  5. Modifying the schedule for fare evasion as follows (bullet points)
  • First offense: 50 times the base fare (currently that would be $137.50)
  • Second offense: 100 times the base fare (currently that would be $275)
  • Third offense: Class A misdemeanor (Section 165.15 of the NY State Penal Code).
  • Checks due to the person could be intercepted to pay the fines.

As for why I would want police enforcement---oftentimes, farebeaters are people committing other offenses. As for what route should be highlighted next, after the B41...I'd probably say the Bx9 or B15. Notice how the dollar vans have all but disappeared from Utica Avenue since SBS began.

Never has truer words been spoken.

As far as the fare beaters are concerned they know that they can get away with it as some of the District Attorneys especially Cyrus "White Shoes" Vance from Manhattan has said that he will not prosecute fare beaters.  That has to stop as fare beating is a crime. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I hate to put it like this, but the fact that people are doing more farebeating on the B35 via the artics, is infact hurting cab service....

When I used to take the LIRR (to Atlantic Term.) coming home, I would get miffed at having to wait so long for a cab over at E. 18th, and eventually ended up walking either to Flatbush (or Bedford) for a cab, or walking home altogether..... The phenomenon of more people standing curbside longer for a cab along Church definitely exists.... You have some cab drivers now that are absolutely petrified of running past Flatbush av.... Yeah, you got those 2 cops at the subway station (B)(Q), but they spend far more time on their cell phones, talking amongst each other, and/or skirt chasing, that they're too distracted to care.....

This is where merging the TBTA Police with the rest of the MTA Police would also do wonders, creating one force that in addition to patrolling the railroads (SIR, LIRR, and Metro-North/CT Commuter Rail) could also be in plainclothes watching for farebeaters, with another mobile force cracking down on gypsy cab/van operations. TBTA can only patrol the bridges and tunnels, but many of their officers have been made redundant both with open-road tolling and the addition of state trooper patrols..

I have to wonder if there is a case for ATU 1056 to make with respect to the routes out of Jamaica Depot, or for TWU 100 to make about the Q111/3/4.

Edited by aemoreira81
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

What I see needing to be done, in no particular order:

  1. Any XE60 buses should be dedicated to Flatbush Depot for the B41 (which would warrant it with stop and go traffic) for increased capacity.
  2. State Trooper/MTA Police crackdown on the dollar vans (since the NYPD won't do so) with a contracted towing company for impounding vehicles.
  3. Bergen Beach service would be designated B40 as a distinct route.
  4. Select Bus Service introduction to the B41 and an Eagle Team/MTA Police/State Trooper enforcement. (On the B82 SBS, some Eagle Team stops have resulted in as many as 12 people being removed from a bus for fare evasion.)
  5. Modifying the schedule for fare evasion as follows (bullet points)
  • First offense: 50 times the base fare (currently that would be $137.50)
  • Second offense: 100 times the base fare (currently that would be $275)
  • Third offense: Class A misdemeanor (Section 165.15 of the NY State Penal Code).
  • Checks due to the person could be intercepted to pay the fines.

As for why I would want police enforcement---oftentimes, farebeaters are people committing other offenses. As for what route should be highlighted next, after the B41...I'd probably say the Bx9 or B15. Notice how the dollar vans have all but disappeared from Utica Avenue since SBS began.

This would be a good idea. Some of your ideas do tie in to what I have planned for the B41 and other ideas:

Points #1, and 4: In my list of ideas for Brooklyn Routes, I have proposed that the B41 be converted to SBS operations, and the B41 Local/SBS, B46 Local/SBS, and B44 Local/SBS use articulated electric buses (XE60s) for better service. 28 for the B41 Local, and B41 SBS, 32 apiece for the B46 Local, and B46 SBS, and 38 apiece for the B44 Local and B44 SBS. The numbers maybe subject to vary as the capacity has room for 250-265 buses and the depot would need to have around 130 buses for the remaining buses. In addition to depot charger, en-route charger would be installed at Kings Plaza Lane 1 for the B41 and B46, and the Proterra Charger at Williamsburg Plaza would need to replaced with a universal charger that works with both New Flyer, Proterra and other electric buses.

Point #3: For the Bergen Beach bus service, I proposed that the Bergen Beach branch would be renamed the B91, keeping in tradition of having the split portion of the route carrying the same first or second digit of the route it was once part of (i.e, M10/M20, B61/B62). Tying into points 1 and 4, the B91 would have Select Bus Service installed with stops consolidated to speed service, with the SBS stopping at Utica Avenue, Ralph Avenue, and 71st Street. SBS service would operate from 5:00 AM to 1:00 AM, while local service would be rationalized. The B91 Local service span would be from 5:00 AM to 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM to 8:00 PM, Monday-Friday, and from 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM, every day. In its place, a rerouted B9 would provide Avenue N local service from 5:00 AM to 1:00 AM. This would provide much better service and reduce confusion on where some of the buses go. The resources saved by not running B41 service to Bergen Beach when ridership is super light (weekends), would be freed up to boost B41 service to/from Kings Plaza, especially during busy shopping days. Note that the B91 local and SBS would also have articulated buses like the B41 local and SBS

Point #2: New bus and HOV lanes, in addition to the existing Flatbush bus lanes, would be installed on the corridor as follows:

  • North of Grand Army Plaza: HOV 3+ offset lanes.
  • Grand Army Plaza to Empire Blvd: No bus treatment.
  • Empire Blvd to Farragut Road: Curbside Bus lanes at select locations (bus stops).
  • Farragut Road to Avenue I: Offset Bus lanes.
  • Avenue I to Utica Avenue: No treatment, but some street treatments for Left-turn lanes.
  • Utica Avenue to Avenue U: Median Bus lanes (new bus boarding islands would be built where necessary.

The bus lanes would be enforced from 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM (up from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM), and can occur 7 days a week. Towing trucks and both stationary cameras and cameras on the bus would help with enforcement.

Point #5: no comment, but I do like the idea for the fines.

Another plan I had for the B41 isn't limited to the B41, but affects multiple routes. Downtown Brooklyn is at the very north end of the corridor. Since there is congestion at the central portion of the corridor, by the time buses reaches Downtown, the buses are already late. To rectify this, a new bus terminal would by built 3 short blocks away from the Livingston and Fulton Corridors. Aside from the B41, these two corridors are served by other routes: B25, B26, B38, B38 LTD, B45, B52, B67, B103 LTD. Congestion either in Downtown or at the outer ends of these routes can affect on time performance. Using Ashland Place/Lafayette Avenue as a conceptual location for the new bus terminal, these aforementioned routes, the B41, and the B37 would all terminate at this new terminal. A new bus shuttle, designated as the B88 Downtown Link, would replace current bus service on both Fulton Street and Livingston Street and operate to the Fulton Ferry terminal of the B25, with the north end of the B67 served by another route. This would be beneficial for the B41 as the route would avoid congestion in Downtown Brooklyn, and when the buses are caught in traffic in the central portion of Flatbush, having that bus terminal would allow buses to turn around sooner instead of going all the way to Cadman Plaza to finish their trip, before turning around and heading south again. Before anyone asks questions about the terminal. I know there would be a required transfer between the B41 (and the other affected routes) and the Downtown Link, but the transfer is only going to add at most 5 minutes for passengers taking the bus to Downtown, but since the route would be more frequent with the route not serving downtown, the transfer time would not be an issue.

This isn't the first time a bus terminal and shuttle for Downtown was announced. Back in 2010-11, the DOT did a study of the Downtown Brooklyn area, and found out that too many bus routes serving Downtown Brooklyn contributes to the unreliability of these routes. Therefore, one of the recommendations was a Downtown Brooklyn Bus Terminal to serve these overlapping routes, with a single bus shuttle (my proposed B88 Downtown Link) providing Livingston Street and Fulton Mall service (westbound on Fulton, eastbound on Livingston). The DOT claimed that this is an attractive option for making bus service more efficient, in which they are correct. Read the entire report here: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dbstc_final_report.pdf. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little ignorant on Brooklyn van situation. Are the vans actually illegal and outlawed? Or are they just legal but bordering on dangerous?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

I'm a little ignorant on Brooklyn van situation. Are the vans actually illegal and outlawed? Or are they just legal but bordering on dangerous?

They are only illegal if they pick up off the street without any pre arrangement. They are legal if people subscribe to the service by arranging for trips beforehand. You can guess which category most vans fall in to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2019 at 10:35 PM, BrooklynBus said:

They are only illegal if they pick up off the street without any pre arrangement. They are legal if people subscribe to the service by arranging for trips beforehand. You can guess which category most vans fall in to.

The dollar vans in NYC act more of an unofficial bus service than a ride hauling service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.