Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
bulk88

locals going express to last stop

Recommended Posts

On another social media site, I seen large complaints about late trains skipping stops. The L is the only line I've seen in past couple years that uses that tactic. Under Jay Walder era, I remember QBL and 6 doing it every week, but speaking to NYCT ops folks, skipping stops was prohibited as a dispatching tool by management. With all these non-railfan complaints of skipping stops during rush hour, where is skipping stops normal in 2019? Or did I run into a pile of Williamsburg residents who never put down their phones and they were speaking about the L?

 

In 2019, outside of the L skipping stops, the only lateness correction tool I've seen is a conductor shortening dwell well below the scheduled average at dead stations, override the AAS & shout "stand clear", 7-10 sec dwell, not 20 sec.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh it's been happening regularly. I had it happen some weeks ago on an uptown (A) train. We crawled crawled and crawled.  Then at 175th street an inaudible, garbled announcement was made which at least half the car couldn't hear and NOT repeated.  Doors were closed and then BOOM, no stops until 207th street. Myself and several other people were FURIOUS. Of course we had to take the same stupid train back to where we were getting off. All of that made me 20 minutes late!! If they're going to do it, make AUDIBLE announcements.  Worst off is when they say they're going from express to local only to then go back to express when you've gotten off of the train.  Just ridiculous...

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The (N) did this pre-construction days on the Sea Beach. It would delay so much in 4th avenue that it would only stop at 8th avenue then New Utrecht and then Kings Hwy, which is so annoying because everyone and their mom gets off Bay Parkway! But because Kings Hwy is an "express" station it will only stop there. Everyone will get off and you can see the Manhattan bound packed. The (MTA) should really make Bay Parkway the unofficial express stop based on demographics.

Edited by ABOGbrooklyn
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I remember once at DeKalb Ave a few years ago, I waited 45 minutes for an (L) train to stop. At least 2 trains that were in service passed us without stopping.

Edited by Lil 57

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember waiting with a friend at 14th Street to get the (6) to 23rd and with no announcement that thing went express to 42nd. We ended up taking a M103 to our destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh it's been happening regularly. I had it happen some weeks ago on an uptown (A) train. We crawled crawled and crawled.  Then at 175th street an inaudible, garbled announcement was made which at least half the car couldn't hear and NOT repeated.  Doors were closed and then BOOM, no stops until 207th street. Myself and several other people were FURIOUS. Of course we had to take the same stupid train back to where we were getting off. All of that made me 20 minutes late!! If they're going to do it, make AUDIBLE announcements.  Worst off is when they say they're going from express to local only to then go back to express when you've gotten off of the train.  Just ridiculous...

You can attempt to make your announcement as as audible possible, it doesn’t help when these trains are 30+ years old with broken PA’s. I wish your fellow riders would take their frustrations elsewhere, it’s not our fault they’re broken nor do we have any way of finding out unless it’s reported to us (and in this case it would obviously be too late) 

OP skips happen everyday, especially during rush hours. When you have lines like the 1 and 6 which run tight 4 min headway’s it’s imperative that things run smoothly. When people constantly hold doors it delays that train and others behind it. 

The system isn’t perfect by far, but I’m willing to bet that a large percentage of skips during rush hours are caused by passengers.

  • Thanks 1
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jchambers2120 said:

You can attempt to make your announcement as as audible possible, it doesn’t help when these trains are 30+ years old with broken PA’s. I wish your fellow riders would take their frustrations elsewhere, it’s not our fault they’re broken nor do we have any way of finding out unless it’s reported to us (and in this case it would obviously be too late) 

OP skips happen everyday, especially during rush hours. When you have lines like the 1 and 6 which run tight 4 min headway’s it’s imperative that things run smoothly. When people constantly hold doors it delays that train and others behind it. 

The system isn’t perfect by far, but I’m willing to bet that a large percentage of skips during rush hours are caused by passengers.

Oh please with that. I get so sick of employees bullshitting us and telling us that it's OUR fault that the damn system is falling apart!! Put the blame where it belongs!! We have a system that is in disrepair with a signaling system that is a century old!! If the damn trains ran on time people wouldn't be so apt to hold the doors the first place.  I've been riding the subways for over 15 years now, and the system has been allowed to descend into the abyss!! I don't hold the doors and more times than not I don't see people holding the doors. What I DO see is trains holding in the stations and CRAWLING because of "train traffic" even when there are large gaps between trains. That one always gets me.  

There is just a lot of frustration with this system because we are a City that depends on public transportation and the system is FAILING taxpayers overall. The (MTA) is allowed to run with no accountability whatsoever. The buses can run however as can the trains and it's okay.  Meanwhile we have other transit systems as old as ours that are making serious strides.  I run an advocacy group and people are just so fed up with the service. Day after day it's a crap shoot.  

  • Thumbs Up 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bulk88 said:

On another social media site, I seen large complaints about late trains skipping stops. The L is the only line I've seen in past couple years that uses that tactic. Under Jay Walder era, I remember QBL and 6 doing it every week, but speaking to NYCT ops folks, skipping stops was prohibited as a dispatching tool by management. With all these non-railfan complaints of skipping stops during rush hour, where is skipping stops normal in 2019? Or did I run into a pile of Williamsburg residents who never put down their phones and they were speaking about the L?

 

In 2019, outside of the L skipping stops, the only lateness correction tool I've seen is a conductor shortening dwell well below the scheduled average at dead stations, override the AAS & shout "stand clear", 7-10 sec dwell, not 20 sec.

Happens on the (R) whenever there are major delays during rush hour, although it doesn't seem to be very effective, given that the trains don't actually go that fast... Mainly what it does is reduce crowding.

 

4 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

The (N) did this pre-construction days on the Sea Beach. It would delay so much in 4th avenue that it would only stop at 8th avenue then New Utrecht and then Kings Hwy, which is so annoying because everyone and their mom gets off Bay Parkway! But because Kings Hwy is an "express" station it will only stop there. Everyone will get off and you can see the Manhattan bound packed. The (MTA) should really make Bay Parkway the unofficial express stop based on demographics.

it already kind of IS the "unofficial" express stop given that (N) s stop at 8 and Bay Pkwy in both directions due to the construction, but keeping that change would be great.

 

48 minutes ago, Jchambers2120 said:

You can attempt to make your announcement as as audible possible, it doesn’t help when these trains are 30+ years old with broken PA’s. I wish your fellow riders would take their frustrations elsewhere, it’s not our fault they’re broken nor do we have any way of finding out unless it’s reported to us (and in this case it would obviously be too late) 

OP skips happen everyday, especially during rush hours. When you have lines like the 1 and 6 which run tight 4 min headway’s it’s imperative that things run smoothly. When people constantly hold doors it delays that train and others behind it. 

The system isn’t perfect by far, but I’m willing to bet that a large percentage of skips during rush hours are caused by passengers.

It makes me wonder what the point of PA check is. Operators are clearly still going to run the service, whether the PA is working or not so that they won't have to delay trains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jchambers2120 said:

You can attempt to make your announcement as as audible possible, it doesn’t help when these trains are 30+ years old with broken PA’s. I wish your fellow riders would take their frustrations elsewhere, it’s not our fault they’re broken nor do we have any way of finding out unless it’s reported to us (and in this case it would obviously be too late) 

OP skips happen everyday, especially during rush hours. When you have lines like the 1 and 6 which run tight 4 min headway’s it’s imperative that things run smoothly. When people constantly hold doors it delays that train and others behind it. 

The system isn’t perfect by far, but I’m willing to bet that a large percentage of skips during rush hours are caused by passengers.

Neither passengers nor operators are at fault in crowding-driven skips. It's the managerial ranks, who've fostered such a culture of fear in RTO that everything is done glacially. Pair that with insufficient service on most lines, and you have a situation that creates delay. 

The (F) is skipworld in Brooklyn; most rushes see 6 (F)s express Jay-Church. They really need to learn how to short turn again, or at least how to select the best places for skips (one interesting idea that a friend of mine suggested is doing skips in the reverse-peak direction to reduce rider impact). 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't hold the doors and more times than not I don't see people holding the doors. What I DO see is trains holding in the stations and CRAWLING because of "train traffic" even when there are large gaps between trains. That one always gets me.  

Haha, so true. And that's what boils riders even more.

On one trip, the C/O made an announcement about holding doors delaying trains. The doors close, we crawl out of the station and come to a stop. <_< Yeah, it's the door holding...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

 

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

Neither passengers nor operators are at fault in crowding-driven skips. It's the managerial ranks, who've fostered such a culture of fear in RTO that everything is done glacially. Pair that with insufficient service on most lines, and you have a situation that creates delay. 

The (F) is skipworld in Brooklyn; most rushes see 6 (F)s express Jay-Church. They really need to learn how to short turn again, or at least how to select the best places for skips (one interesting idea that a friend of mine suggested is doing skips in the reverse-peak direction to reduce rider impact). 

Also notorious for skips are the (N) / (W) after 7:30PM in Astoria. All stops past Queensboro Plaza skipped (and now with Astoria Blvd closed), especially since the (N) has to trek up the local track in Brooklyn after 7PM. This is spacing out that (N) train from its leading (N) train, and made even worse when the preceding train was an R160 and the first 4 Av Local train is an R68. The skips should be done in the reverse-peak direction regardless of subway route to reduce rider impact. There is essentially no time savings when trains in the peak direction are forced express due to lateness because announcements have to be made and ~50-65% of riders must exit the train, crowd the platform, and wait for the next train, increasing dwell times. Not to mention increased switching maneuvers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Also notorious for skips are the (N) / (W) after 7:30PM in Astoria. All stops past Queensboro Plaza skipped (and now with Astoria Blvd closed), especially since the (N) has to trek up the local track in Brooklyn after 7PM. This is spacing out that (N) train from its leading (N) train, and made even worse when the preceding train was an R160 and the first 4 Av Local train is an R68. The skips should be done in the reverse-peak direction regardless of subway route to reduce rider impact. There is essentially no time savings when trains in the peak direction are forced express due to lateness because announcements have to be made and ~50-65% of riders must exit the train, crowd the platform, and wait for the next train, increasing dwell times. Not to mention increased switching maneuvers.

I thought that local track (N) fixed on 4th Ave? Except for 36-59th

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the (C) downtown when do they skips from Hoyt Schmerhorn do they switch to local or keep on express?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Abba said:

On the (C) downtown when do they skips from Hoyt Schmerhorn do they switch to local or keep on express?

i was on a (C) last week Thursday Euclid-bound. at hoyt, it was announced that express stops will be made to the last stop, utilizing the express track. i honestly don't know if that's a normal practice on the (C)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think it is . At least from what I’ve experienced. I would imagine though if There  was an issue on the (A) they would cross it over and do it on the local.

Edited by Abba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i was on a (C) last week Thursday Euclid-bound. at hoyt, it was announced that express stops will be made to the last stop, utilizing the express track. i honestly don't know if that's a normal practice on the (C)

That is normal practice as The next (A) will make local stops to Broadway Jct or to Euclid Av. This actually happens a lot. I don’t work on the (A) and (C) so I Can’t tell you exactly why it happens so much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Deucey said:

Happens on (1) to South Ferry daily - even in the two-track section.

I second this. When I used to live on 157 Street, the south ferry bound (1) 7 times out of 10 would skip stops along the route. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The (1) also very frequently skips going north from 96th Street or 103rd Street, especially during the evening rush. Trains will skip directly from 96th Street or 103rd Street to 137th Street to 145th Street. They used to typically use 96th Street, but I think they use 103rd Street more now because 96th Street is really crowded even without trains skipping. The good thing is that there is usually a train directly behind, but occasionally even that skips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, W4ST said:

The (1) also very frequently skips going north from 96th Street or 103rd Street, especially during the evening rush. Trains will skip directly from 96th Street or 103rd Street to 137th Street to 145th Street. They used to typically use 96th Street, but I think they use 103rd Street more now because 96th Street is really crowded even without trains skipping. The good thing is that there is usually a train directly behind, but occasionally even that skips.

In a way, (1) service justifies doing Skip-Stop, but on the ops mindset that @RR503 brings up regularly, skipping stations due to delays would indicate that the problem is less crowding and more so (MTA) not adequately scheduling service.

If trains are always running express from Chambers to South Ferry, or 96 to 145, then it means they're arriving AFTER demand increases, and an appropriate scheduling change or operations adjustment is required.

But given that (MTA) ops operate as if we should bend to their will versus adjusting to meet the current population's transport trends, I doubt that'll ever happen.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Deucey said:

In a way, (1) service justifies doing Skip-Stop, but on the ops mindset that @RR503 brings up regularly, skipping stations due to delays would indicate that the problem is less crowding and more so (MTA) not adequately scheduling service.

If trains are always running express from Chambers to South Ferry, or 96 to 145, then it means they're arriving AFTER demand increases, and an appropriate scheduling change or operations adjustment is required.

 But given that (MTA) ops operate as if we should bend to their will versus adjusting to meet the current population's transport trends, I doubt that'll ever happen.

On the (1) especially, they also just need to get *good* at running the damn trains. That line has relatively few timers, no complex merges, and decent-ish terminals. The big x-factor is how well can you manage acceleration/braking/dwell time across the route's 38 (closely spaced) stations at high-ish frequencies, as if you've got someone who's underperforming during the rush, you'll quickly get folks stacked up behind and you'll lose it. 

Edited by RR503

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happens a lot on the (4) which always works to my advantage. Because of the constant door holding and crowd conditions along Lexington, the (4) and (5) get so bunched closely together the (4) becomes easily late by close to 20 minutes which then makes it run express in the Bronx.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the (7) routinely skips stops, usually its all the express stations plus 74 St, 33rd st and all station east of Qnsboro.

The reason why riders crowd and hold train doors in my experience is because there was a gap in service and no one seems to want to wait for the next train. Can't really blame them for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Happens a lot on the (4) which always works to my advantage. Because of the constant door holding and crowd conditions along Lexington, the (4) and (5) get so bunched closely together the (4) becomes easily late by close to 20 minutes which then makes it run express in the Bronx.

For those on here who keep the sabbath this happend once and was the difference for me making it on time! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will happen occasionally happen on the (M) and (R) on QBL. Most of the time express on the local from Queens Plaza to Roosevelt Ave then all stops to Forest Hills. 

Once in a while theyll go Roosevelt Ave-Woodhaven Blvd-Forest Hills, or even a complete express run on the express track (talking about skips only, not reroutes)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.