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MysteriousBtrain

MTA vows to scrap all of its old diesel buses by early May

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Just now, Jdog14 said:

 

OR it can be Ulmer last since Flatbush can take in NGs

Either way, the RTS is dying in Brooklyn. Weren't the very 1st RTS brought to Brooklyn?

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2 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Do the remaining RTS buses have to go? Yes. However, IMO, it should be delayed (last bus retired) until the end of the spring pick.

Agreed as this gives the TA time to make the schedule changes for Flatbush and Ulmer Park routes in the event that the buses that are supposed to arrive do not arrive on time

 

10 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

But Ulmer Park has the second highest amount of RTS in Brooklyn after Flatbush, so the argument seems flawed. ENY RTS were decreasing dramatically before the article was posted.

As I will say time and time again, this "journalist" had only one thing on his mind when he wrote the article and that it was to have some politician(s) read it and run with it without checking the accuracy of the story. He achieved his goal as the Borough President held a press conference the next day and the story developed legs. Once it got legs with exception of Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick telling the truth (which was ignored for the most part), it was accepted as fact. Someone above Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick decided to put pressure on the agency to speed up the deadline and again did not bother checking whether the article was correct.

Mr. Byford had the same problem in Toronto with buses that were way past their prime and still on the road, so this is nothing new with one exception as the person there was Ford and here it is Cuomo. I remember reading the Toronto Star on the net (at that time it was free) and how he had to jump hoops just trying to get money for replacement buses. For further information see Transittoronto.com as it is an excellent source of bus histories in Toronto complete with numbers and dates of retirement.

The problem is that there are too many people in all forms of media "masquerading as "journalists" who do not belong in the field. In reality they are "shills" who claim that they are something that they are not (journalists) but persons expressing their opinions and using the title to promote their views. In most cases they have an agenda which is to promote a particular viewpoint and use their position not to give the facts but to have us believe what they are advocating. I would be a lot happier if these shills would admit that they are expressing an opinion and then let us take it from there.

 

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1 hour ago, Jdog14 said:

The kneelers seem to be going bad on these buses (seen so many B46 buses that wouldn't leave cause the kneeler was stuck). It's been real 

That is what will get rid of them even faster.  

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1 minute ago, Interested Rider said:

Agreed as this gives the TA time to make the schedule changes for Flatbush and Ulmer Park routes in the event that the buses that are supposed to arrive do not arrive on time

 

As I will say time and time again, this "journalist" had only one thing on his mind when he wrote the article and that it was to have some politician(s) read it and run with it without checking the accuracy of the story. He achieved his goal as the Borough President held a press conference the next day and the story developed legs. Once it got legs with exception of Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick telling the truth (which was ignored for the most part), it was accepted as fact. Someone above Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick decided to put pressure on the agency to speed up the deadline and again did not bother checking whether the article was correct.

Mr. Byford had the same problem in Toronto with buses that were way past their prime and still on the road, so this is nothing new with one exception as the person there was Ford and here it is Cuomo. I remember reading the Toronto Star on the net (at that time it was free) and how he had to jump hoops just trying to get money for replacement buses. For further information see Transittoronto.com as it is an excellent source of bus histories in Toronto complete with numbers and dates of retirement.

The problem is that there are too many people in all forms of media "masquerading as "journalists" who do not belong in the field. In reality they are "shills" who claim that they are something that they are not (journalists) but persons expressing their opinions and using the title to promote their views. In most cases they have an agenda which is to promote a particular viewpoint and use their position not to give the facts but to have us believe what they are advocating. I would be a lot happier if these shills would admit that they are expressing an opinion and then let us take it from there.

 

Toronto tends to want 18-year lifespans for buses, and they don't get federal dollars from Ottawa. Their O5s were retired at 20, and CNG O5s were actually converted to diesel using powerplants from older buses to allow them to run to 20. I personally believed at the time that the 800 and 900-series C40LFs should have been converted to D40LFs and sent to MTA Bus primarily (so that O7s wouldn't have had to be sent there to retire the last RTS buses there).

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1 minute ago, aemoreira81 said:

Toronto tends to want 18-year lifespans for buses, and they don't get federal dollars from Ottawa. Their O5s were retired at 20, and CNG O5s were actually converted to diesel using powerplants from older buses to allow them to run to 20. I personally believed at the time that the 800 and 900-series C40LFs should have been converted to D40LFs and sent to MTA Bus primarily (so that O7s wouldn't have had to be sent there to retire the last RTS buses there).

Not impossible, MTA did it with that one old gen from JFK depot. But it would probably have to be for a smaller fleet b/c it would cost a lot to do it for all the old gens. IMO, if they were to convert Old gens, I would do the ones from MTA Bus. Those 2007s still got a few years left in them. I'd prefer that for a depot like LaGuardia or Baisley Park.

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Posted (edited)

At this point I couldn’t care less. Yeah it’s a somber moment but they are 20 and 21 years old. 

I have one of my own anyway so I’m content. It was a good era. Just means it’s almost time for me to retire. Nothing will ever beat The Master of The Snow.

It will definitely go down in history as the most durable bus ever made. 

Other than the fact that 90% of that article is inaccurate, it is what it is. 

FYI, Hybrids actually break down at a higher rate  than the RTS.... That’s clearly why they are still here.....

If it was up to MTA and the engineering department a small reserve fleet would have been here for a while.  

Edited by East New York
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Just now, East New York said:

At this point I couldn’t care less. Yeah it’s a somber moment but they are 20 and 21 years old. 

I have one of my own anyway so I’m content. It was a good era. Just means it’s almost time for me to retire. Nothing will ever beat The Master of The Snow.

It will definitely go down in history as the most durable bud ever made. 

Other than the fact that 90% of that article is inaccurate, it is what it is. 

FYI, Hybrids actually break down at a higher rate  than the RTS.... That’s clearly why they are still here.....

They were built to last. They are "R32 built". Granted the R32s are here because of a fleet shortage and the premature scrapping of the R44s, but when those R32 trains outlive trains that came after it. That's incredible. The RTS is like the Toyota of buses. Mad reliable and top performers. I think that they'll outlive the D60s and the OLd Gen CNGs.

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7 minutes ago, East New York said:

At this point I couldn’t care less. Yeah it’s a somber moment but they are 20 and 21 years old. 

I have one of my own anyway so I’m content. It was a good era. Just means it’s almost time for me to retire. Nothing will ever beat The Master of The Snow.

It will definitely go down in history as the most durable bud ever made. 

Other than the fact that 90% of that article is inaccurate, it is what it is. 

FYI, Hybrids actually break down at a higher rate  than the RTS.... That’s clearly why they are still here.....

If it was up to MTA and the engineering department a small reserve fleet would have been here for a while.  

Also, you are referring to the Old Gen hybrids or Next Gen Hybrids. (If it's the next gens I blame Gun Hill 🤣)

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24 minutes ago, East New York said:

At this point I couldn’t care less. Yeah it’s a somber moment but they are 20 and 21 years old. 

I have one of my own anyway so I’m content. It was a good era. Just means it’s almost time for me to retire. Nothing will ever beat The Master of The Snow.

It will definitely go down in history as the most durable bud ever made. 

Other than the fact that 90% of that article is inaccurate, it is what it is. 

FYI, Hybrids actually break down at a higher rate  than the RTS.... That’s clearly why they are still here.....

If it was up to MTA and the engineering department a small reserve fleet would have been here for a while.  

Wait. Own RTS?

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24 minutes ago, East New York said:

FYI, Hybrids actually break down at a higher rate  than the RTS.... That’s clearly why they are still here.....

If it was up to MTA and the engineering department a small reserve fleet would have been here for a while.  

Right, I'm not crazy, this is the part that must have the techs banging their heads against the walls...anybody looks at it and the road call numbers are always worse for the hybrids--even 5-6 years younger--than the RTSes. And the hybrids aren't even doing too much better when it comes to gas mileage. Hardly worth a fight though...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Wait. Own RTS?

Yep. Had a 1980 ex-OCTA GMC reposed, and now I have a 2000 Nova in Damn near mint condition. And she will run circles around any new equipment here now. 😎 I do have a bit of an advantage tho, being a master truck/bus/diesel tech in training, my bus is impeccably maintained. My personal mechanic is also a master mechanic at ENY. 

But I tell you, that damn wheel-chair lift makes us want to pull all our hair out. 🤬  Our knowledge is on the Lift-U brand lifts. MTA retired the RTS brand buses long ago for just that reason. This thing has been the ONLY issue I have ever had with my bus. 

My 1980 had a Lift-U and still works to this day. 

They are the longest lasting and easiest to maintain. You can roadcall an RTS at breakfast and it will be back out pounding the pavement at evening rush. Roadcall something new and we will see it next week.

I can’t lie tho... I would love to have my my own D40LFR or XDE40 Allison one day. 😎

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

Right, I'm not crazy, this is the part that must have the techs banging their heads against the walls...anybody looks at it and the road call numbers are always worse for the hybrids--even 5-6 years younger--than the RTSes. And the hybrids aren't even doing too much better when it comes to gas mileage. Hardly worth a fight though...

Facts! 

In other news, model RTS buses will be on sale at

http://Facebook.com/ModelBusShop

 No one can do a model like me or my Model Bus Alliance Partners. We are also the only people in the world that make true scale TMC and Nova models. Mention code NYCTF20 for an additional discount. 

Sift through the photos and check stuff out guys. Some of my personal fleet is in there as well. 

 

Edited by East New York
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I was just in Sacramento - my pops has terminal cancer, so I’m out there a lot now - and I noticed RT has an almost completely new fleet. All the Orion V’s are gone - including the ones you opened the rear door on by standing on the lowest step.

And I was sad. The buses of my youth were gone.

Same with the RTS. Sacramento never had them, but they were mainstays of the RTD and MTA fleet when I was a kid in LA. Rode them all the time with my father out there.

Cramped rear window seat; shitty wheelchair lifts...but I loved it more than the Flxible New Looks because of that rounded front end.

So I’m sad again that they’re being retired here in NY. Rarely got to ride them unless I got on one when it rarely ran on the M20, but it’s the closest “foamer” thrill I had riding buses here.

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8 hours ago, Q23 via 108 said:

So is it gonna be like this?

ENY 1st, then MJQ, then Jamaica, then Ulmer Park, then finally Flatbush.

Also, how convenient that RTS will retire at Flatbush, and that's the bus on the Depot sticker.

IMO I believe it will be ENY since they are almost done with their current RTS, and Flatbush will be next since the media has brought attention towards the communities that these two depots operates on. Lets be honest here, Flatbush depot is known as the depot that operates on heavy traffic routes such as the B41, B44, and the B46  and carries a lot of passengers that hits main interest points across Brooklyn. These routes should have been first routes to receive new buses style since it carries passengers traffic.  

8 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

 

OR it can be Ulmer last since Flatbush can take in NGs

ENY, Ulmer park and Quill either already or starting to receive  new buses with the Wifi and USB port chargers. Flatbush depot only has 46 - 47 of these new buses on the SBS46 route only and currently have the 2015 XD's which doesn't have any of the new features that the new XD's has such as USB Charger port and updated announcement screen.

The other day I was at Zerega training facility and I mention to one of the Supt I was cool with regarding the article that has brought the public attention towards these communities that currently still using old RTS on routes versus other areas using new buses only, and according to some of the information that was shared with me really is the reason why the MTA quickly made this drastic decision getting rid of the RTS sooner. Pretty much its who runs what depot and what relationship that depot management has with the upper authority that makes decisions where which buses goes to which depots. In other words "Favors aka you my buddy and I'll hook your depot up" type situation. So when the borough President of Brooklyn stated that they were going to investigate whats going inside these bus moves and decision, The transit authority already knew some of the secrets would have spilled and caused another media out break. 

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10 minutes ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

IMO I believe it will be ENY since they are almost done with their current RTS, and Flatbush will be next since the media has brought attention towards the communities that these two depots operates on. Lets be honest here, Flatbush depot is known as the depot that operates on heavy traffic routes such as the B41, B44, and the B46  and carries a lot of passengers that hits main interest points across Brooklyn. These routes should have been first routes to receive new buses style since it carries passengers traffic.  

ENY, Ulmer park and Quill either already or starting to receive  new buses with the Wifi and USB port chargers. Flatbush depot only has 46 - 47 of these new buses on the SBS46 route only and currently have the 2015 XD's which doesn't have any of the new features that the new XD's has such as USB Charger port and updated announcement screen.

The other day I was at Zerega training facility and I mention to one of the Supt I was cool with regarding the article that has brought the public attention towards these communities that currently still using old RTS on routes versus other areas using new buses only, and according to some of the information that was shared with me really is the reason why the MTA quickly made this drastic decision getting rid of the RTS sooner. Pretty much its who runs what depot and what relationship that depot management has with the upper authority that makes decisions where which buses goes to which depots. In other words "Favors aka you my buddy and I'll hook your depot up" type situation. So when the borough President of Brooklyn stated that they were going to investigate whats going inside these bus moves and decision, The transit authority already knew some of the secrets would have spilled and caused another media out break. 

If they find that out and they release it to the public you know crap will hit the fan? The MTA should make the decisions to where things go not someone who’s cool with who. 

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52 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

If they find that out and they release it to the public you know crap will hit the fan? The MTA should make the decisions to where things go not someone who’s cool with who. 

Exactly!  How ironic it was all of sudden they decided to make the change ASAP. The RTS was due to retire by the end of the year, but again sometimes Transit don't always follow their agenda. If it wasn't for the public addressing this concern, it would have been remain the same situation with these depots still using old buses or hand me down buses.

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38 minutes ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

Exactly!  How ironic it was all of sudden they decided to make the change ASAP. The RTS was due to retire by the end of the year, but again sometimes Transit don't always follow their agenda. If it wasn't for the public addressing this concern, it would have been remain the same situation with these depots still using old buses or hand me down buses.

That’s why our transit system is the way it is or as I should say has become. The public aren’t much involved or know what’s going on so the MTA probably got away with doing things for years. Even though the article that sparked this may have been misinformed I think exposure on the buses would help a lot because we see a lot of attention to the trains more so than buses. Hopefully more articles (more factual) will make the MTA do things better. 

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Posted (edited)

Wow, it's time isn't it? :(

New York City is never gonna be the same when these buses retire. The RTS series in general have been serving this city since the 80s. It's witnessed the rapid change the Big Apple underwent at the end of the 20th Century as well as the last 19 years (especially 9/11 and the austerity like measures/fiscal cuts the (MTA) faced as a result of the Great Recession at the end of the 2000s-early 2010s), multiple appearances in alot of movies tv shows set in NYC plus the news reports, served in all 5 boroughs some for long-gone depots, that's how long they've been around. I'm happy to have ridden them in person on routes in Manhattan and see them in action in Brooklyn and Queens. It also feels like the buses are New Yorkers itselves because so many of us have gotten used to it's presence on the streets no matter where in the city we head out to.

I do hope the RTS has some sort of farewell celebration like what was done to the original Routemasters in 2005 when they were retired. 

Edited by TheNewYorkElevated
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3 hours ago, Flatbush SBS Duece said:

 

The other day I was at Zerega training facility and I mention to one of the Supt I was cool with regarding the article that has brought the public attention towards these communities that currently still using old RTS on routes versus other areas using new buses only, and according to some of the information that was shared with me really is the reason why the MTA quickly made this drastic decision getting rid of the RTS sooner. Pretty much its who runs what depot and what relationship that depot management has with the upper authority that makes decisions where which buses goes to which depots. In other words "Favors aka you my buddy and I'll hook your depot up" type situation. So when the borough President of Brooklyn stated that they were going to investigate whats going inside these bus moves and decision, The transit authority already knew some of the secrets would have spilled and caused another media out break. 

East New York, Ulmer Park usually get their way most of the time and slowly as of late Flatbush is apart of that category when it comes to RTS. 

Now that the media has shed light of this I wonder how the (MTA) depot politics will stand with each division. Now East New York and Ulmer Park will have to hop on the NG wagon plus Ulmer hasn’t operated hybrids before (correct me on this) this would be practice until they get XDE40’s. 

I know every division can’t look like Manhattan. However, Brooklyn Division buses travel on very popular streets and intersections and we need to treated as such to be like the Manhattan and Bronx Divisions. 

I remember years ago newer buses would start with the Manhattan Division than to Brooklyn but ever since the DHF60’s and other models arrived starting in the late 90’s the focus has been with the Bronx Division. However, thank god the best bus mechanics come out of East New York and it’s stellar Central Maintenance Facility and can’t forget Zerega CMF. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Again, some of you forget we have a handful of buses being delivered over the next few weeks. Right now ENY has less than 15 RTS in service and as FP gets more new XD40s, OGs will go to ENY and kill off the buses there. It also looks like a few 7600's and 7700's will go to ENY from JA and kill off the RTS at ENY too. And if the MTA is serious about killing the RTS, the NGs at QV can go to FB and when JA finishes getting XD40s they can easily jump to UP for the next batch.

Manhattan and Queens are not priority under this new plan so Quill and Jamaica can quietly continue to run RTS until later in April.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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14 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Again, some of you forget we have a handful of buses being delivered over the next few weeks. Right now ENY has less than 15 RTS in service and as FP gets more new XD40s, OGs will go to ENY and kill off the buses there. It also looks like a few 7600's and 7700's will go to ENY from JA and kill off the RTS at ENY too. And if the MTA is serious about killing the RTS, the NGs at QV can go to FB and when JA finishes getting XD40s they can easily jump to UP for the next batch.

Manhattan and Queens are not priority under this new plan so Quill and Jamaica can quietly continue to run RTS until later in April.

Right now most of the deliveries is centered for Jamaica. Fresh Pond, Grand Avenue, Ulmer Park and East NY are all due for buses and at this rate the XD40 order could finish early. 

I agree with you in regards of all that is being explained. However, when you have NG’s going to Queens Village and they are receiving deliveries of the LFSA’s shouldn’t the NG’s head to Brooklyn direct from Jamaica (just asking for a friend). I tell you the Department of Buses do things very weird. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Right now most of the deliveries is centered for Jamaica. Fresh Pond, Grand Avenue, Ulmer Park and East NY are all due for buses and at this rate the XD40 order could finish early. 

I agree with you in regards of all that is being explained. However, when you have NG’s going to Queens Village and they are receiving deliveries of the LFSA’s shouldn’t the NG’s head to Brooklyn direct from Jamaica (just asking for a friend). I tell you the Department of Buses do things very weird. 

Right now it's anyone's game. I only mentioned QV's NGs because that's currently the most logical explanation for the rushed retirement of RTS. Nothing is concrete as always. However, since you mentioned JA's NGs, I could also see some 8400's going to JA and sending the few NGs there to FB as well.

I'd also like to bring up that since GA has more XD40s coming as well, NGs and/or older XD40s there could go to FB as well.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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1 minute ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Right now it's anyone's game. I only mentioned QV's NGs because that's currently the most logical explanation for the rushed retirement of RTS. Nothing is concrete as always. However, since you mentioned JA's NGs, I could also see some 8400's going to JA and sending the few NGs there to FB as well.

That is correct. I looked at Jamaica’s NG roster and Queens Village’s roster. Neither depot has the 48 replacements needed for RTS switch to NG’s.  If you also take from Stengel than that’s the 48 and some spares needed for FB if they really want to do a rush job! 

As for ENY and Ulmer Park. East New York is pretty squared away with FP’s OG’s. Ulmer Park is the problem (unless there is a solution to that which is both out of our paygrades

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5 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

East New York, Ulmer Park usually get their way most of the time and slowly as of late Flatbush is apart of that category when it comes to RTS. 

Now that the media has shed light of this I wonder how the (MTA) depot politics will stand with each division. Now East New York and Ulmer Park will have to hop on the NG wagon plus Ulmer hasn’t operated hybrids before (correct me on this) this would be practice until they get XDE40’s. 

I know every division can’t look like Manhattan. However, Brooklyn Division buses travel on very popular streets and intersections and we need to treated as such to be like the Manhattan and Bronx Divisions. 

I remember years ago newer buses would start with the Manhattan Division than to Brooklyn but ever since the DHF60’s and other models arrived starting in the late 90’s the focus has been with the Bronx Division. However, thank god the best bus mechanics come out of East New York and it’s stellar Central Maintenance Facility and can’t forget Zerega CMF. 

 

What is your obsession with NG’s going to Ulmer Park bro??? It’s NOT happening. Period. Lol

Why would they “practice” on a bus they are never going to have? 

What exactly are they practicing here?

When they get XDE40’s they won’t even need to fully train on them, just qualify. If we end up ordering allison units there won’t me much training needed at all except in maintenance. Yet the Allison hybrid is the only hybrid system built similar to a transmission to keep things familiar. 

The mechanics however do have to train extensively. 

EN doesn’t not need or want them either. We have plenty of new buses coming in to displace others.

77 NG’s off the Island soon as well so don’t forget those. 

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17 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

Agreed as this gives the TA time to make the schedule changes for Flatbush and Ulmer Park routes in the event that the buses that are supposed to arrive do not arrive on time

 

As I will say time and time again, this "journalist" had only one thing on his mind when he wrote the article and that it was to have some politician(s) read it and run with it without checking the accuracy of the story. He achieved his goal as the Borough President held a press conference the next day and the story developed legs. Once it got legs with exception of Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick telling the truth (which was ignored for the most part), it was accepted as fact. Someone above Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick decided to put pressure on the agency to speed up the deadline and again did not bother checking whether the article was correct.

There is no reason for the buses not to arrive on time. Production is solid, all the buses are approved. 

As far as management, at this point the buses up for retirement anyway there’s no need to argue to paint or have anyone fact check.

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7 hours ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

Wow, it's time isn't it? :(

New York City is never gonna be the same when these buses retire. The RTS series in general have been serving this city since the 80s. It's witnessed the rapid change the Big Apple underwent at the end of the 20th Century as well as the last 19 years (especially 9/11 and the austerity like measures/fiscal cuts the (MTA) faced as a result of the Great Recession at the end of the 2000s-early 2010s), multiple appearances in alot of movies tv shows set in NYC plus the news reports, served in all 5 boroughs some for long-gone depots, that's how long they've been around. I'm happy to have ridden them in person on routes in Manhattan and see them in action in Brooklyn and Queens. It also feels like the buses are New Yorkers itselves because so many of us have gotten used to it's presence on the streets no matter where in the city we head out to.

I do hope the RTS has some sort of farewell celebration like what was done to the original Routemasters in 2005 when they were retired. 

I feel the same way as well, as I grew up seeing these buses as well. Living in Brooklyn since 2002, when I was two year old, I have always seen or rode on one of these buses when walking around the neighborhood, which has underwent changes as I grew up. Now that I am 19 years old, I am always going to remember these buses as my childhood fleet. In fact, I have a video of my ride last night on bus 4958 on the B41 LTD along Avenue N to the East 54th Street stop, two blocks from the same place I have lived in since I was two. This was uploaded on my YouTube Channel, which I have decided to reactivate after two long years of inactivity.

 

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