Transit-Oriented Development Discussion Topic

[Union Tpke]

@LanceI cannot start without this hilarious rendering. This is a 1 train to Mount Vernon West. The next and last stop is Mount Vernon West. Stand clear of the closing doors please.

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[LGA Link N Train]

I know I’m late but this is a very interesting topic. 

By any chance, would TOD work within Areas of NYC? Say southeast Queens For example with LIRR Stations south of Jamaica. (St. Albans, Locust Manor, Lareuton, and Rosedale)?

[Union Tpke]

53 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I know I’m late but this is a very interesting topic. 

By any chance, would TOD work within Areas of NYC? Say southeast Queens For example with LIRR Stations south of Jamaica. (St. Albans, Locust Manor, Lareuton, and Rosedale)?

See my map here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eZkhf5AE_6q5m5A5GEzYDE0U09-v-AXY&usp=sharing

Areas right along LIRR corridors should be rezoned. It is ridiculous that there are so many vacant lots, parking lots, and one or two story buildings alongside very busy rail corridors with fast service to the CBD!

[NY1635]

I've heard of Wyandanch Rising before and all the development around the area isn't doing much to improve the community. Most of Wyandanch's problems have less to do with the actual neighborhood, and more to do with the failing school district. 

When are they going to do the Route 110 and Nicholls Road BRT? I've heard about this for years, but nothing ever came out of the plan aside from a study. 

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

See my map here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eZkhf5AE_6q5m5A5GEzYDE0U09-v-AXY&usp=sharing

Areas right along LIRR corridors should be rezoned. It is ridiculous that there are so many vacant lots, parking lots, and one or two story buildings alongside very busy rail corridors with fast service to the CBD!

What the heck is that line to Glen Oaks?

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

What the heck is that line to Glen Oaks?

That is a feeder bus route to the LIRR.

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, it's right across the street & what not, but HTC & LIRR Hempstead feel like they're worlds apart... Always felt it should've been an intermodal facility....

[Union Tpke]

11 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I've heard of Wyandanch Rising before and all the development around the area isn't doing much to improve the community. Most of Wyandanch's problems have less to do with the actual neighborhood, and more to do with the failing school district. 

When are they going to do the Route 110 and Nicholls Road BRT? I've heard about this for years, but nothing ever came out of the plan aside from a study. 

BRT on those corridors is happening:

https://www.nymtc.org/Portals/0/Pdf/Presentations/Brown Bag Meetings/Bus Rapid Transit/Bus Rapid Transit_011619.pdf?ver=2019-01-31-151749-500

[bobtehpanda]

5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

BRT on those corridors is happening:

https://www.nymtc.org/Portals/0/Pdf/Presentations/Brown Bag Meetings/Bus Rapid Transit/Bus Rapid Transit_011619.pdf?ver=2019-01-31-151749-500

It's misguided at best.

Nearly all development faces away from Nicolls Road, and it's because Nicolls is a fake expressway that is incredibly dangerous to cross. Drivers blow by there at 70+ MPH all the time. I wouldn't cross it to get to a bus stop, especially if it's just going to be in the shoulder with a sad little bus shelter offering no actual protection.

Also, what the hell are those presentations? Did they take screenshots of the maps and put it through some crap Instagram filter? They're unreadable.

[bobtehpanda]

7 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

That is a feeder bus route to the LIRR.

Seems unnecessary, especially when they have the express bus.

[P3F]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:54 PM, Union Tpke said:

Areas right along LIRR corridors should be rezoned. It is ridiculous that there are so many vacant lots, parking lots, and one or two story buildings alongside very busy rail corridors with fast service to the CBD!

Parking at commuter rail stations increases railroad usage by allowing easy access to the train by car, rather than paying to take an expensive taxi or having to deal with NICE, for the vast majority of people who don't live within walking distance of a station. Obviously the amount of parking available shouldn't be overdone, but parking lots next to LIRR and MNR stations are not inherently detrimental to the railroads.

It works better at certain stations than others, depending on location and demand. People drive to Hicksville station from many points on the island, to access relatively fast and frequent service. The town of Oyster Bay even maintains a parking lot next to Hicksville station, because a significant amount of Oyster Bay residents would rather drive to Hicksville and take the LIRR there, instead of taking the Oyster Bay branch.

[bobtehpanda]

Part of why the LIRR's P&R fixation is so necessary is because the LIRR put all of its eggs in the Ronkonkoma basket and severely neglected the other lines.
 

If you had electrification and decent headways to Oyster Bay, Patchogue, and Port Jefferson, this likely would not be a major concern.

[ibroketheprinter]

6 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

the LIRR put all of its eggs in the Ronkonkoma basket and severely neglected the other lines

I'd have to object

*cough cough* BABYLON *cough*

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, ibroketheprinter said:

I'd have to object

*cough cough* BABYLON *cough*

Babylon isn't very far out. It's about as far out as Huntington.

[ibroketheprinter]

10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Babylon isn't very far out. It's about as far out as Huntington.

Distance is not the issue

 

Babylon gets a train in each direction every 30 minutes during off peak hours, no other line gets that

Babylon is completely elevated. No other line gets that

Babylon is getting a lot of it's stations overhauled. Not a single Far Rock/Long Beach Branch station has been so much as touched

 

I could go on, but I won't.

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, ibroketheprinter said:

Distance is not the issue

 

Babylon gets a train in each direction every 30 minutes during off peak hours, no other line gets that

Babylon is completely elevated. No other line gets that

Babylon is getting a lot of it's stations overhauled. Not a single Far Rock/Long Beach Branch station has been so much as touched

 

I could go on, but I won't.

Distance is the issue, because why take a train from Stony Brook or Patchogue when you can drive to Ronkonkoma and get into the city an hour quicker? It's also why Ronkonkoma has those massive parking garages.

Main Line is getting grade separated as part of Third Track, and we also just spent a billion dollars on Ronkonkoma Second Track. Aside from East Side Access, every major capital project for the last 40 years has been for Ronkonkoma service. How bout that Mid-Suffolk Yard to lock in today's inefficient operating patterns, instead of building out electrification and yard at Port Jeff?

The notion that Far Rock or Long Beach is ever going to get as much love as a bigger line like Babylon or Ronkonkoma is silly. What's ridership look like?

Edited April 20, 2019 by bobtehpanda

[Union Tpke]

Great presentation on TOD at today's Board Meeting. While working with local governments is nice, the state has to be able to override local zoning near transit. We can't keep sprawling further.

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Edited May 20, 2019 by Union Tpke

[RR503]

The key element missing in all this TOD talk is robust (>= every 30 mins) off peak service. Alas, I don't see that coming anytime soon. 

[Union Tpke]

15 minutes ago, RR503 said:

The key element missing in all this TOD talk is robust (>= every 30 mins) off peak service. Alas, I don't see that coming anytime soon. 

And that is something the MTA does control. This is why we need to reduce staffing on trains!

[B35 via Church]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 5:59 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I know I’m late but this is a very interesting topic. 

By any chance, would TOD work within Areas of NYC? Say southeast Queens For example with LIRR Stations south of Jamaica. (St. Albans, Locust Manor, Lareuton, and Rosedale)?

If you ask me, I'd say it already has....

Apparently, this guy also agrees - How New York got it right

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

If you ask me, I'd say it already has....

Apparently, this guy also agrees - How New York got it right

Nothing is called "TOD" in New York because that's the default development mode here. No one would blink at a bunch of apartments without parking going up next to a train station, not like Wyandanch or Ronkonkoma acting like it's the second coming of Jesus.

If you want an intentional TOD, we literally spent billions of dollars building up Hudson Yards around a one-stop subway extension. (And hoodwinked all the developers at 42nd and 10th as well.)

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Nothing is called "TOD" in New York because that's the default development mode here. No one would blink at a bunch of apartments without parking going up next to a train station, not like Wyandanch or Ronkonkoma acting like it's the second coming of Jesus.

If you want an intentional TOD, we literally spent billions of dollars building up Hudson Yards around a one-stop subway extension. (And hoodwinked all the developers at 42nd and 10th as well.)

In terms of development, the application of new urbanist principles out in the suburbs is a blatant attempt at urbanizing them..... Nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing that will end up rising in Wyandanch, is crime.

Edited May 23, 2019 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

In terms of development, the application of new urbanist principles out in the suburbs is a blatant attempt at urbanizing them..... Nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing that will end up rising in Wyandanch, is crime.

Once you need to actually replace infrastructure, single family homes don't pay the bills.

It's why Nassau is simultaneously one of the most wealthy counties in the country and under fiscal control of the state.

[LGA Link N Train]

@Union Tpke

I was looking over your Transit Oriented Development map and I noticed a few new things like new overpasses for an LIRR Station on Queens Blvd and Whatnot. I was wondering on what your opinion is about a Commuter Rail Station Located near the Corner of Broadway and Northern Boulevard? There is a Store near that area that has been Shutdown for a while and would make a great space for new development. In addition, that area could have a bus to take Potential Amtrak and MNRR Customers to LGA, which in turn would decongest Jackson Heights a little bit. Also, apologies for bumping this thread. 

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

@Union Tpke

I was looking over your Transit Oriented Development map and I noticed a few new things like new overpasses for an LIRR Station on Queens Blvd and Whatnot. I was wondering on what your opinion is about a Commuter Rail Station Located near the Corner of Broadway and Northern Boulevard? There is a Store near that area that has been Shutdown for a while and would make a great space for new development. In addition, that area could have a bus to take Potential Amtrak and MNRR Customers to LGA, which in turn would decongest Jackson Heights a little bit. Also, apologies for bumping this thread. 

I was suggesting the creation of a new neighborhood in the triangle between the NYCRR, the PW and the Main Line, and by upzoning surrounding areas on Queens Boulevard. The curve would be too sharp for a stop there, and adding so many stops on the Hell Gate Line would mess scheduling up. See Alon Levy's posts on Pedestrian Observations. Adding stops at Pelham Parkway and Astoria are pushing it.