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Lawrence St

OMNY Implementation/Metro-Card Retirement Discussion Thread

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On 4/22/2019 at 6:11 PM, TheNewYorkElevated said:

They're working now? Cool, I'll try it out whenever I pass through there. 

BTW, are there any plans for the general public to get their hands on an OMNY card if they don't have a phone or debit/credit card? 

They are not yet enabled for the general public.

At the end of May, they will be enabled so that anyone can use their own NFC-enabled phone (Apple Pay or Google Pay) or contactless debit/credit card. Full fare, though; no passes nor discounts. This is basically just a trial phase of the trickiest part of the technology. 

Only in late 2020, once the readers are system-wide, will they roll out OMNY cards for the public. Until then, MetroCard remains the primary fare product. 

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MTA mentioned that all transfer will be honored on OMNY enabled services 

I wonder how that works? 

Tap in at Grand Central and tap again at St George? And won’t get double charged?

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It will probably have a time limit, just like the Metrocard.

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On 4/29/2019 at 1:04 PM, Mtatransit said:

MTA mentioned that all transfer will be honored on OMNY enabled services 

I wonder how that works? 

Tap in at Grand Central and tap again at St George? And won’t get double charged?

Probably something on the backend, like in London, where all the transactions are batched together at night and a single amount for all your fares is charged. 

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33 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Probably something on the backend, like in London, where all the transactions are batched together at night and a single amount for all your fares is charged. 

That explains the cap...

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Posted (edited)

After rereading the concept of operations doc from 2011 (which is still relevant today), here is how the OMNY system would work.

It would be account based. Each card or phone tapped on a reader would create an "account" on the server upon first tap, and people can choose to create their own account to register one device. 

Fares are calculated on a fare server.

For payment cards without a "product" (passes, money in an account) associated, the fare server would aggregate all the taps every night, calculate the appropriate fare (including transfers, stepups, etc), and then charge the credit or debit card. This will happen for the first phase at the end of the month. 

For payment or OMNY cards associated to an account that has one or more associated products, the fare calculation is done in real time. This will come later. 

If anyone is interested I can post a link to the PDF. It is quite interesting and shows some real forward thinking. 

Edited by RestrictOnTheHanger

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I am now thinking that how does mta deal with those stolen/lost credit cards since they cant verify who used them. 

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10 hours ago, whz1995 said:

I am now thinking that how does mta deal with those stolen/lost credit cards since they cant verify who used them. 

Try to sync up the transaction time with CCTV footage if I were to guess

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15 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

After rereading the concept of operations doc from 2011 (which is still relevant today), here is how the OMNY system would work.

It would be account based. Each card or phone tapped on a reader would create an "account" on the server upon first tap, and people can choose to create their own account to register one device. 

Fares are calculated on a fare server.

For payment cards without a "product" (passes, money in an account) associated, the fare server would aggregate all the taps every night, calculate the appropriate fare (including transfers, stepups, etc), and then charge the credit or debit card. This will happen for the first phase at the end of the month. 

For payment or OMNY cards associated to an account that has one or more associated products, the fare calculation is done in real time. This will come later. 

If anyone is interested I can post a link to the PDF. It is quite interesting and shows some real forward thinking. 

I'd love to see that PDF

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3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I'd love to see that PDF

Here it is.

This was publicly available some time ago to drum up interest from potential vendors. It is between 7 and 10 years old but has not aged much. 

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Chase is jumping on the OMNY bandwagon and advertising their contactless cards in the Shuttle passage in Grand Central

60448344_682658408834296_257280167506870

60141015_682658432167627_593430790860177

60778058_682658458834291_622174317463784

the website is TapToRideNYC.com and you find this rendering on that page:

60319619_315404082687756_482756039480338

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That's interesting. I had a contactless chase card years ago, and they quietly replaced them with regular cards. (Now they're chip and signature cards)

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Looks like this will be the design for the OMNY card...

omny-card-mockup.jpg

I was hoping for some kind of skyline image to go with the OMNY logo but I like it and it's pretty sharp.

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27 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Looks like this will be the design for the OMNY card...

omny-card-mockup.jpg

I was hoping for some kind of skyline image to go with the OMNY logo but I like it and it's pretty sharp.

To me it looks stupid.

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Posted (edited)

It is perhaps simply unfortunate timing that NYC ended up with the clumsy mag stripe that has been the foundation of MetroCard for so many years.

Just one year later after it was deployed, a chip was launched that would go on to rule the transit world. The MIFARE chip was developed in Austria by Mikron in the early 1990s, and quickly snapped up by Dutch electronics stalwart Philips.

Today MIFARE is used by 750 cities, and there have been spin offs too. Transport for London (TfL) launched their MIFARE based Oyster card in 2003.

Ten years later it was becoming clear that contactless bank card payments were the future, rather than transit cards. TfL decided to do it in house. For a relatively low development cost of ~$15m (the sort of money the MTA loses down the side of the couch every week, some might argue) the authority designed their own system. There was no “changeover” for riders - it was backwards compatible, the upgraded readers working for old and new.

Accepting bank cards soon opened up new other payment methods - phones. First Apple Pay, then Android. No special app to download, just tap whatever - from an old school standalone transit card (Oyster), to the smartwatch. It all just worked (for Europeans at least... some US bank cards can still be tricky)

Meanwhile, in NYC, the last 25 years of turnstile refusals, 20 minute sin-bins and the like might have never happened, if only the MTA had found that world beating chip and been a bold forerunner.

It’s good to know, though, that the years of MetroCard are nearly at an end. Roll on the full roll out. I’m looking forward to giving it a test ride.

Edited by paolo999

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13 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Looks like this will be the design for the OMNY card...

omny-card-mockup.jpg

I was hoping for some kind of skyline image to go with the OMNY logo but I like it and it's pretty sharp.

Thumbs up too... the extended lines are a strong transit nod. Also - and not in a bad way - it reminds me a little of the SF muni logo.

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On 5/17/2019 at 6:20 PM, Around the Horn said:

Looks like this will be the design for the OMNY card...

omny-card-mockup.jpg

I was hoping for some kind of skyline image to go with the OMNY logo but I like it and it's pretty sharp.

I cannot be the only one who realizes the genius in the design? What is the one thing we see all over the system, white-on-black, that people use for wayfinding?

The signage.

Ningen. THIS is exaxtly how you start building a brand and identity.

Small details like that.

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7 minutes ago, Enjineer said:

Saw this on the M11!

 8qzMkVT.jpg

Which bus #?

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49 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Which bus #?

I think that was a former Ukon bus.

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59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I think that was a former Ukon bus.

That's what someone said. They said likely was 42XX, and I saw a photo of mine had 53, so likely 4253 (if that's an Orion VII NG) 

It wouldn't surprise me if they promise OMNY limited to Staten and the Lexington Line from GCT to Barclays for the very beginning launch, but it quickly expands to other buses and subway regions

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4 hours ago, Enjineer said:

That's what someone said. They said likely was 42XX, and I saw a photo of mine had 53, so likely 4253 (if that's an Orion VII NG)

4253 is at Manhattanville so that checks out.

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