MTA to Redesign Queens Bus Network, Asks for Public Input

[Lil 57]

Quote

MTA to Redesign Queens Bus Network, Asks for Public Input

Every bus route throughout Queens will be analyzed as part of the overhaul. (Department of Transportation)

April 16, 2019 By Laura Hanrahan

The Queens bus network is about to get an extensive redesign, the MTA announced on Monday.

During a presentation to the Queens Borough Cabinet, the transit authority outlined its year-long plan to overhaul the network, with intentions to alter unnecessary or indirect bus routes and adjust spacing between stops.

The MTA is calling for a “blank slate” approach to the revamp of Queens’ 107 bus lines, which service upwards of 714,000 riders every weekday.

With ridership decreasing citywide and bus speeds slowing down due to congestion, every bus routes on the current network—largely designed based on the preceding trolley network—will be analyzed and adjusted to accommodate current and future travel patterns.

According to the MTA, average bus speeds in the heavily bus-dependent borough currently average 8.9 miles per hour.

“The Queens bus network has not substantially changed in decades and the people of Queens deserve better,” said MTA President Andy Byford. “It’s imperative that New York City Transit do its part to keep up with the rapid and changing nature of growth in one of the city’s most bus-dependent boroughs. Bus network modernization is absolutely critical to the continued success of Queens and I look forward to being a part of it.”

The transit authority hopes that the new design will be able to provide higher frequency, high capacity bus service throughout the borough’s major corridors. 

Public feedback will be collected and incorporated into the future route design changes. The MTA will collect suggestions via an online form, and through a series of open houses, which will begin next month.

The MTA plans to have a first draft of the redesign done by November of this year, and will release the final plan in April 2020.

Source: https://foresthillspost.com/mta-to-redesign-queens-bus-network-asks-for-public-input

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah Queens does deserve better, but ultimately the goal of these redesigns is to cut costs and "engage" the public so that the  can say "see, we gave people what they wanted". 

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, just be prepared for longer, straighter routes with less bus stops and inadequate frequencies....

[Orion6025]

https://new.mta.info/queensbusredesign

 

here's a link someone messaged to me about the redesign. It's not really substantive but maybe someone will find it to be useful.

[NY1635]

I'm more worried that buses might get kicked out of Jamaica Center and Archer Avenue due to the sheer amount of development going on between 168th and Sutphin. 

I'm uncertain about what will become of the Q46 going to LIJ, Q5/85 going to Green Acres, and the Q113/Q114 going thru Nassau to travel between the mainland and the Rockaways. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

48 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, just be prepared for longer, straighter routes with less bus stops and inadequate frequencies....

Exactly...

[MysteriousBtrain]

50 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I'm more worried that buses might get kicked out of Jamaica Center and Archer Avenue due to the sheer amount of development going on between 168th and Sutphin. 

I'm uncertain about what will become of the Q46 going to LIJ, Q5/85 going to Green Acres, and the Q113/Q114 going thru Nassau to travel between the mainland and the Rockaways. 

Jamaica Center is too big a bus terminal to lose that much service. At the very least only some may move.

I also doubt the Q5/85 and Q113/114 would be touched like that either.

[LGA Link N Train]

 claims to be looking at every bus route but what most of them really need is less bunching and “Bus Zones” on each stop. (In addition to a majority being rerouted to be faster/more direct.)

By the way; Bus Zones are a term that I made up to represent what would look like a bus lane, but it’s only on the Bus Stop. It’s similar to how a parking zone would work.

And since we’re on the topic of a Queens Bus Redesign; I’ll post my document/map on this thread too (both are still a Work In progress): 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bgZvRvkYdMhcMTbtcePbyqwYp9KfRrMgsB-McrdfdM

Queens Bus Network Redesign: 
https://goo.gl/maps/oojQyXCHrTG2

 

[Lil 57]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah Queens does deserve better, but ultimately the goal of these redesigns is to cut costs and "engage" the public so that the  can say "see, we gave people what they wanted". 

The whole"less flavors but more frequency" concept is stupid because it cuts service from other areas forcing people to overcrowd on other routes. I already picture the QM1/31 buses going and having the QM5/35 buses serve Fresh Meadows full-time which would piss off QM5/35 riders because they'll have to take a longer route during the rush.

[RR503]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

The whole"less flavors but more frequency" concept is stupid because it cuts service from other areas forcing people to overcrowd on other routes. I already picture the QM1/31 buses going and having the QM5/35 buses serve Fresh Meadows full-time which would piss off QM5/35 riders because they'll have to take a longer route during the rush.

And yet in every city that it’s been done, ridership has been up, bucking the national trend. 

There are a lot of places that these redesigns can go wrong, and at times they are indeed Trojan horses for cuts. But the basic idea — that high frequency corridor routes attract more riders than bi-hourly routes that maximize coverage — has been borne out time and again in cities across the globe. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RR503 said:

And yet in every city that it’s been done, ridership has been up, bucking the national trend. 

There are a lot of places that these redesigns can go wrong, and at times they are indeed Trojan horses for cuts. But the basic idea — that high frequency corridor routes attract more riders than bi-hourly routes that maximize coverage — has been borne out time and again in cities across the globe. 

High frequency is fine, but you'd better be able to meet that metric, otherwise it quickly becomes a mess. The  put the cart before the horse.  Not enough bus lanes to keep buses coming. They're still working on that but that should've been obvious in the first place.

[RR503]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

High frequency is fine, but you'd better be able to meet that metric, otherwise it quickly becomes a mess. The  put the cart before the horse.  Not enough bus lanes to keep buses coming. They're still working on that but that should've been obvious in the first place.

True, but this becomes easier too; fewer corridors means you can focus your bus lane/bus lane enforcement on smaller areas and beget more benefit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RR503 said:

True, but this becomes easier too; fewer corridors means you can focus your bus lane/bus lane enforcement on smaller areas and beget more benefit.

That should be the idea, but this NYC isn't like most other places...

[Lil 57]

16 minutes ago, RR503 said:

And yet in every city that it’s been done, ridership has been up, bucking the national trend. 

There are a lot of places that these redesigns can go wrong, and at times they are indeed Trojan horses for cuts. But the basic idea — that high frequency corridor routes attract more riders than bi-hourly routes that maximize coverage — has been borne out time and again in cities across the globe. 

 

16 minutes ago, RR503 said:

And yet in every city that it’s been done, ridership has been up, bucking the national trend. 

There are a lot of places that these redesigns can go wrong, and at times they are indeed Trojan horses for cuts. But the basic idea — that high frequency corridor routes attract more riders than bi-hourly routes that maximize coverage — has been borne out time and again in cities across the globe. 

Yes, I agree with more frequency corrodiors but I strongly dissagree about what they did to Hylan. Taking two routes that run every 6-10 mins and making one route that runs every 3-5 minutes wasn't the right option. People rather have a route that runs every 10 minutes and the trip takes one hour than a route that runs every 5 and the trip takes 30 mins longer.

[RR503]

48 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That should be the idea, but this NYC isn't like most other places...

Be careful when thinking like that. NYC isn’t special beyond our incompetence in these matters. If we wanted to concentrate enforcement, we could, but we don’t. 

 

[Lex]

48 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Be careful when thinking like that. NYC isn’t special beyond our incompetence in these matters. If we wanted to concentrate enforcement, we could, but we don’t. 

 

I think that's what he was implying, especially if we take his advocacy group into consideration.

[N6 Limited]

Should Brooklyn and Queens be done simultaneously and treated as one since they're connected?

2 hours ago, RR503 said:

And yet in every city that it’s been done, ridership has been up, bucking the national trend. 

There are a lot of places that these redesigns can go wrong, and at times they are indeed Trojan horses for cuts. But the basic idea — that high frequency corridor routes attract more riders than bi-hourly routes that maximize coverage — has been borne out time and again in cities across the globe. 

This is part of the reason the N6 is the busiest route in Nassau County, Frequent Service, and lots of trip generators, lot of intra-county trips. 

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

High frequency is fine, but you'd better be able to meet that metric, otherwise it quickly becomes a mess. The  put the cart before the horse.  Not enough bus lanes to keep buses coming. They're still working on that but that should've been obvious in the first place.

I mean it was all obvious to actual passengers. Bus lanes and Bus Priority, riders have been saying this for years.  

MTA: "We're going to introduce 'Bus Rapid transit' to NYC, we're going to allow pre-payment and intermittent bus lanes, this will really shorten your trips!"

Riders: "But what about bus lane blockages, and the bus getting stopped every block or 2 because of traffic signals?"

MTA: *Blank stare*

 

From the presentation to the Queens board:

Quote

Queens local bus ridership has declined 2.5% between 2016 and 2017

• Queens express bus ridership is down 1% between 2016 and 2017

• Bus speeds continue to decline – 3% slower since 2015 at 8.9 mph

Is it a coincidence that Vision Zero started in 2014?

[Lex]

14 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

This is part of the reason the N6 is the busiest route in Nassau County, Frequent Service, and lots of trip generators, lot of intra-county trips.

This is important. Without this in mind, it won't matter how many trips you throw at a route, as it'll just be a waste of money. You would instead be better off focusing on coverage, and with the way Queens is right now, some areas will need more of a focus on that than on frequency of certain routes.

(Something else to keep in mind is that even on the best of routes/lines, there's a point where trying to add more service fails to bring more benefit.)

[DetSMART45]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

True, but this becomes easier too; fewer corridors means you can focus your bus lane/bus lane enforcement on smaller areas and beget more benefit.

Forget to consider that "extra layer" of bureaucracy, called the NYCDOT? You can redesign the routes all you want, but it means absolutely nothing at the end of all the money/time if the idiotic DOT fights all of your "progress".

They STILL haven't made ALL MTA stops part of the "lollipop" scheme after all of these YEARS.

And then there's those useless countdown timers that "benefit" Express Bus customers so well .....

THEN there's this elephant in the room: The MTA is gonna try to simultaneously do the Bronx "revisions" while getting into the HUGE task of Queens at the same/concurrent time?

Hello, Staten Island Express Bus fiasco Part Two. 

[RR503]

9 minutes ago, Lex said:

This is important. Without this in mind, it won't matter how many trips you throw at a route, as it'll just be a waste of money. You would instead be better off focusing on coverage, and with the way Queens is right now, some areas will need more of a focus on that than on frequency of certain routes.

(Something else to keep in mind is that even on the best of routes/lines, there's a point where trying to add more service fails to bring more benefit.)

I agree that there’s a point beyond which frequency doesn’t matter, but the Queens network today is way too coverage-focused. Consolidating the revenue miles spent on low frequency routes onto high frequency, high ridership potential corridors will increase efficiency, to say nothing of ridership and ease of use.  

5 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

Forget to consider that "extra layer" of bureaucracy, called the NYCDOT? You can redesign the routes all you want, but it means absolutely nothing at the end of all the money/time if the idiotic DOT fights all of your "progress".

They STILL haven't made ALL MTA stops part of the "lollipop" scheme after all of these YEARS.

And then there's those useless countdown timers that "benefit" Express Bus customers so well .....

And somehow the principles of resource consolidation don’t apply to DOT...? 

[DetSMART45]

Just now, RR503 said:

And somehow the principles of resource consolidation don’t apply to DOT...? 

OK, name some of those such "success stories" and I'll actually take that retort as serious.

Some things never change around here .............

[Lex]

12 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

They STILL haven't made ALL MTA stops part of the "lollipop" scheme after all of these YEARS.

That may have something to do with federal regulations on parking signs.

[DetSMART45]

Just now, Lex said:

That may have something to do with federal regulations on parking signs.

So for all these YEARS, those signs have been non-compliant (in Manhattan, in the Bronx, etc.) and they still give the finger to the Feds by not changing them. OhhhhKAY.

[Bay Ridge Express]

A route from Forest Park to Flushing would be nice, and I believe @LaGuardia Link N Tra proposed something similar (from the Q23 terminal). Even if it doesn't save that much time (you never know), it still is better than taking 2-3 buses other long-winded routes you may think of.

[Lex]

6 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

So for all these YEARS, those signs have been non-compliant (in Manhattan, in the Bronx, etc.) and they still give the finger to the Feds by not changing them. OhhhhKAY.

Hey, I never said it made sense, nor did I try to imply such.