Fast Forward Buses Update/Network Redesign Discussion Thread

[Union Tpke]

15 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The eagle teams should travel to Staten Island and ride some of the buses and bust anyone trying to not pay the fare. Farebeating is rampant especially among the younger population. (IMO I would cut service from areas with high rates of fare evasion or have buses skip that area, forcing them to walk until they start to pay the fare again. Why do areas with little to no farebeating have to suffer from cuts because people from another area don't want to pay their fare? That would teach them a lesson. No fare, no service.)

Before turnstiles were installed at Tompkinsville, people would walk the short distance from there to the Ferry Terminal skipping the a fare. The MTA, until it installed turnstiles, had trains skip Tompkinsville and Stapleton for this reason.

[Lil 57]

7 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Before turnstiles were installed at Tompkinsville, people would walk the short distance from there to the Ferry Terminal skipping the a fare. The MTA, until it installed turnstiles, had trains skip Tompkinsville and Stapleton for this reason.

Why Stapleton, that station was always free? Were they trying to get people to ride the buses there? Also how long was this for? 

Also I found this article from SILive in 2010 and it said that all stations will have fare gates when OMNY or what they say a "smart card" comes out.

https://www.silive.com/news/2010/03/mta_robs_island_of_railway_fre.html

Edited May 22, 2019 by Lil 57

[Union Tpke]

1 minute ago, Lil 57 said:

Why Stapleton, that station was always free? Were they trying to get people to ride the buses there? Also how long was this for? 

It likely had to do with scheduling. Tompkinsville had turnstiles added in 2008.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/27/nyregion/neighborhood-report-staten-island-up-close-forget-free-lunch-they-discovered.html

https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/si-railway-to-close-walking-loophole/?hp

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Anyway, it's akin to suburban areas (generally) having low crime rates, yet some of its inhabitants being the same people coming over exacerbating crime rates in urban areas after a night out or whatever (no matter how slight, or how petty the crime is).....

I'll say it: the drunks on LIRR in Penn every night

[B35 via Church]

28 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I'll say it: the drunks on LIRR in Penn every night

Yeah, they're the biggest culprit as it pertains to NYC, but you get the overall analogy/point.... Farebeating isn't limited to any class or ethnicity.

[Union Tpke]

19 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, they're the biggest culprit as it pertains to NYC, but you get the overall analogy/point.... Farebeating isn't limited to any class or ethnicity.

She has turned out to be a good board member.

[7-express]

Did anyone go to the open house at Flushing Library yesterday?

[NewFlyer 230]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:14 AM, Union Tpke said:

Expect more Eagle Teams. My issue is that they only go to areas with minorities. On the M60 they are always waiting in Harlem, but never in Astoria.

I haven’t seen the Eagle Team people in a long time. Out of all the times I’ve took the M60 I saw them once on 125th and 2nd Ave. At this point it’s been over a year since I’ve seen them on the Q44, and the Q52/Q53. I see people just walk through the back doors without paying all the time. At this point I feel like the people who do just hop on know that their chances of being caught is very slim, because it really is. I thought the eagle team was suppose to have a random daily appearance on buses so people would know that there is a chance someone might check the bus. I guess hiring eagle  team people is too much money for the  though so they rather just lose more money with people just hopping on. 

The one thing I’ll never understand is why can’t the MTA put metorcard machines in areas that are far away from the subway. There has been times where I would have appreciated being able to fill up my card at a supermarket with a machine or a bus stop. The fact that you have to go to the subway is pathetic. Just look a Staten Island, where it’s difficult to even fill your card up. At this point they better hurry up with this new fare system, because honestly it’s several years late like the MTA is when it comes to making improvements. 

[Lawrence St]

12 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I haven’t seen the Eagle Team people in a long time. Out of all the times I’ve took the M60 I saw them once on 125th and 2nd Ave. At this point it’s been over a year since I’ve seen them on the Q44, and the Q52/Q53. I see people just walk through the back doors without paying all the time. At this point I feel like the people who do just hop on know that their chances of being caught is very slim, because it really is. I thought the eagle team was suppose to have a random daily appearance on buses so people would know that there is a chance someone might check the bus. I guess hiring eagle  team people is too much money for the  though so they rather just lose more money with people just hopping on. 

The one thing I’ll never understand is why can’t the MTA put metorcard machines in areas that are far away from the subway. There has been times where I would have appreciated being able to fill up my card at a supermarket with a machine or a bus stop. The fact that you have to go to the subway is pathetic. Just look a Staten Island, where it’s difficult to even fill your card up. At this point they better hurry up with this new fare system, because honestly it’s several years late like the MTA is when it comes to making improvements. 

And this right here is the problem. Once OMNY goes online and so does all door boarding, this issue is going to get worse.

I cant count HOW many times someone on a local bus just goes in through the rear door.

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And this right here is the problem. Once OMNY goes online and so does all door boarding, this issue is going to get worse.

I cant count HOW many times someone on a local bus just goes in through the rear door.

Wait until the system fully goes online before you say anything. Fare evasion us going down slightly now but is still a big issue systemwide.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

.....Fare evasion is going down slightly now but is still a big issue systemwide.

I wouldn't know it.....

[MysteriousBtrain]

39 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I wouldn't know it.....

I will say that more cops are appearing in Bronx stations to catch fare evaders and it was (somewhat) a success. However, the system still gets beat a lot even with cops around. 

[Around the Horn]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And this right here is the problem. Once OMNY goes online and so does all door boarding, this issue is going to get worse.

I cant count HOW many times someone on a local bus just goes in through the rear door.

However it will be easier to catch people with OMNY.

The way it works is the Eagle Team wirelessly downloads a list of the cards that have touched in from that bus's readers when they board and if a person's card doesn't match the list, they didn't pay.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:28 AM, Union Tpke said:

Before turnstiles were installed at Tompkinsville, people would walk the short distance from there to the Ferry Terminal skipping the a fare. The MTA, until it installed turnstiles, had trains skip Tompkinsville and Stapleton for this reason.

That's partially true. There was a time (before 2005-2006 I believe) where there was no official local/express pattern and all trains skipped some random stops. But there was always at least 1 train per hour during rush hour (peak direction) stopping at Tompkinsville. Off-peak every single train served Tompkinsville.

Around 2005-2006 they rationalized the pattern and had locals and expresses during rush hour but only half the locals stopped at Tompkinsville/Stapleton (so they received service every 30 minutes peak direction and of course every 30 off-peak)

Then when they added turnstiles (I believe in 2007. I could be wrong). All local trains stopped.

On 5/22/2019 at 8:34 AM, Lil 57 said:

Why Stapleton, that station was always free? Were they trying to get people to ride the buses there? Also how long was this for? 

Also I found this article from SILive in 2010 and it said that all stations will have fare gates when OMNY or what they say a "smart card" comes out.

https://www.silive.com/news/2010/03/mta_robs_island_of_railway_fre.html

I think it was more time-savings related. Most people in Stapleton take the local bus which is more frequent and closer to the core areas of Stapleton so they didn't see the need for all the local SIR trains to stop.

That being said it's a 20 minute walk from Stapleton to St George...not bad if you're not in a hurry.

Edited May 24, 2019 by checkmatechamp13

[JeremiahC99]

5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

However it will be easier to catch people with OMNY.

The way it works is the Eagle Team wirelessly downloads a list of the cards that have touched in from that bus's readers when they board and if a person's card doesn't match the list, they didn't pay.

So it should be like what San Francisco has with MUNI?

[B35 via Church]

On 5/24/2019 at 12:09 PM, MysteriousBtrain said:

I will say that more cops are appearing in Bronx stations to catch fare evaders and it was (somewhat) a success.

However, the system still gets beat a lot even with cops around. 

I've noticed a bit of an increase in police presence in some of the subway stations here in Brooklyn too (since when did they have cops patrolling Church av ... maybe that was a one time thing, IDK).... Your last statement there though, is my problem with said police presence; they're only deterring the farebeating but so much & dare I say it, NYPD nowadays are too S-A-W-F-T............. Saaaaawwwwwwwwwfffffffffttttttt!

On a couple of occasions, there's been farebeaters at Church av & the two cops that's usually standing there don't even wince.... IDK if they're there to patrol the subway station or to try to nab dollar cab drivers or what, but they're doing a piss-poor job at doing both.... If they're not on their cell phones, they're busy skirt chasing...

Worthless.

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I've noticed a bit of an increase in police presence in some of the subway stations here in Brooklyn too (since when did they have cops patrolling Church av ... maybe that was a one time thing, IDK).... Your last statement there though, is my problem with said police presence; they're only deterring the farebeating but so much & dare I say it, NYPD nowadays are too S-A-W-F-T............. Saaaaawwwwwwwwwfffffffffttttttt!

On a couple of occasions, there's been farebeaters at Church av & the two cops that's usually standing there don't even wince.... IDK if they're there to patrol the subway station or to try to nab dollar cab drivers or what, but they're doing a piss-poor job at doing both.... If they're not on their cell phones, they're busy skirt chasing...

Worthless.

.... However they complain about a bigger paycheck. (And I’ll leave it at that) 

[Bay Ridge Express]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I've noticed a bit of an increase in police presence in some of the subway stations here in Brooklyn too (since when did they have cops patrolling Church av ... maybe that was a one time thing, IDK).... Your last statement there though, is my problem with said police presence; they're only deterring the farebeating but so much & dare I say it, NYPD nowadays are too S-A-W-F-T............. Saaaaawwwwwwwwwfffffffffttttttt!

On a couple of occasions, there's been farebeaters at Church av & the two cops that's usually standing there don't even wince.... IDK if they're there to patrol the subway station or to try to nab dollar cab drivers or what, but they're doing a piss-poor job at doing both.... If they're not on their cell phones, they're busy skirt chasing...

Worthless.

At Bay Parkway  they literally just stand at the Avenue O entrance and basically pretend not to notice whenever some kid goes under.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

.... However they complain about a bigger paycheck. (And I’ll leave it at that) 

The epitome of the American way - Demand more money while doing less work; and end up getting it too.

There's retirement villages down in Florida full of old people living cushy due to it....

1 hour ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

At Bay Parkway  they literally just stand at the Avenue O entrance and basically pretend not to notice whenever some kid goes under.

I believe it.....

What's never told, is that they don't want to be there (patrolling subway stations) in the first place.

[DetSMART45]

On 5/24/2019 at 6:45 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

So it should be like what San Francisco has with MUNI?

If you're talking about the enforcement side (proof of payment), almost all of the "touch" cards offer that. But with how squishy the DuhBlaahz monarchy is, good luck at having OMNY do serious business on the whole farebeating issue.

Oyster on TfL is what OMNY should be modeled after, where you touch-in and touch-out, and fare is automatically calculated, with a daily maximum even if you "forget" to touch-out.

When it comes to farebeating, the Brits don't play. Check out this page and pull up the PDF of the Farebeating FAQs while you're there. (Remember: In Britain, you're guilty until proven innocent ... essentially.)

[Union Tpke]

Church Ave, Flatbush Ave to Ocean Pkwy, BK
DOT is proposing transit, traffic, and loading improvements along Church Ave, including curbside bus lanes and side street meters west of E 16th St and updates to meters and loading zones east of E 16th St. This will provide faster, more reliable bus service for 45,000 daily riders on the B35, B103, BM3 and BM4 buses while improving traffic flow, reducing double-parking, and better facilitating local businesses’ loading and delivery needs.
Church Ave Transit Improvements – presented to Brooklyn Community Board 14 Transportation Committee in May 2019 (pdf)

[Brillant93]

38 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Church Ave, Flatbush Ave to Ocean Pkwy, BK
DOT is proposing transit, traffic, and loading improvements along Church Ave, including curbside bus lanes and side street meters west of E 16th St and updates to meters and loading zones east of E 16th St. This will provide faster, more reliable bus service for 45,000 daily riders on the B35, B103, BM3 and BM4 buses while improving traffic flow, reducing double-parking, and better facilitating local businesses’ loading and delivery needs.
Church Ave Transit Improvements – presented to Brooklyn Community Board 14 Transportation Committee in May 2019 (pdf)

Why not just start an SBS study? I mean this is obviously an SBS presentation lol. 

[Union Tpke]

32 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Why not just start an SBS study? I mean this is obviously an SBS presentation lol. 

I don't think they are doing SBS anymore. I have heard that the branding will go by the wayside with OMNY coming it, eliminating the need for the costly fare machines.

[P3F]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

Church Ave, Flatbush Ave to Ocean Pkwy, BK
DOT is proposing transit, traffic, and loading improvements along Church Ave, including curbside bus lanes and side street meters west of E 16th St and updates to meters and loading zones east of E 16th St. This will provide faster, more reliable bus service for 45,000 daily riders on the B35, B103, BM3 and BM4 buses while improving traffic flow, reducing double-parking, and better facilitating local businesses’ loading and delivery needs.
Church Ave Transit Improvements – presented to Brooklyn Community Board 14 Transportation Committee in May 2019 (pdf)

East of East 16th Street: makes sense.

East 16th Street to Coney Island Av: I'm not the biggest fan of this plan, but if the community wants the bus lanes, I'd respect that. If they don't, they should speak up against them as was done on Kings Highway.

Coney Island Av to Ocean Pkwy: The bus lanes are undoubtedly needed here due to the large amount of buses on this stretch, unless services are rerouted.

Also, I believe the B103 should be considered for a reroute in the area, as its route doesn't seem to be the most logical one.

Edited June 4, 2019 by P3F

[LTA1992]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:12 AM, Lil 57 said:

The eagle teams should travel to Staten Island and ride some of the buses and bust anyone trying to not pay the fare. Farebeating is rampant especially among the younger population. (IMO I would cut service from areas with high rates of fare evasion or have buses skip that area, forcing them to walk until they start to pay the fare again. Why do areas with little to no farebeating have to suffer from cuts because people from another area don't want to pay their fare? That would teach them a lesson. No fare, no service.)

Automated Passenger Counting combined with OMNY tap counts and GPS information will allow the MTA to pinpoint exactly where fare evasion hotspots are and send Eagle teams to them.

So we might just get that 

Edited June 4, 2019 by LTA1992