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Bronx Redesign Draft Released


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Can someone pin this topic or rename it to "Bronx Redesign Plan Discussion"? Thanks

To my main point, DOT has stated they're doing "tweaks" to the final design plan but haven't said if it's stop tweaks or route tweaks. I wouldn't be surprised if they went ahead with the draft plan Co-Op city changes hoping no one will notice.

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On 10/1/2021 at 9:31 PM, Mpn4179 said:

It's too late for the Bx5, seeing that the proposed stops for elimination on Story Avenue have already been implemented due to the Better Buses Program.

The stops that were eliminated on Story Avenue was restored. More information on why it was restored will be explained momentarily.

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As per the MTA:

Upcoming Meeting

Bronx Bus Network Redesign Restart Public Meeting 

Virtual Public Meeting Event Information

Tuesday, November 9, 2021

Meeting Begins: 6 p.m.

Registration to speak will open on October 28, 2021 and close on November 9, 2021, at 3 p.m.

This meeting will be held on Zoom and broadcast on the MTA’s YouTube Channel:

Zoom: https://mta.zoom.us/j/84329828595?pwd=WEhUSE9YaGE3ODNISk9sdkxRSnJwZz09

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MTAinfo

 

This public meeting will provide the public with an additional opportunity to comment on the proposed Final Plan. Of note, following the public input process and public hearing, two proposals from the proposed Final Plan have been withdrawn, with the Bx28 and Bx34 no longer proposed for route alignment changes. Each route will remain on the route path they travel today.

 

As to the reason why the stops that were eliminated on Story Avenue was restored:

Proposed changes to the Bx6 SBS route alignment, Bx6 Local schedule, and Bx5 schedule will be implemented in 2023 while the rest of the Bronx Redesign Local Plan will be implemented in Summer 2022. This is to avoid the cost of construction associated with installing on-street fare machines that would be needed for approximately one year. Therefore, bus customers should plan to see the proposed schedule changes outlined below implemented in 2023 when MetroCards are retired and OMNY is fully deployed.

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On 11/1/2021 at 9:42 AM, Mpn4179 said:

As per the MTA:

Upcoming Meeting

Bronx Bus Network Redesign Restart Public Meeting 

Virtual Public Meeting Event Information

Tuesday, November 9, 2021

Meeting Begins: 6 p.m.

Registration to speak will open on October 28, 2021 and close on November 9, 2021, at 3 p.m.

This meeting will be held on Zoom and broadcast on the MTA’s YouTube Channel:

Zoom: https://mta.zoom.us/j/84329828595?pwd=WEhUSE9YaGE3ODNISk9sdkxRSnJwZz09

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MTAinfo

 

This public meeting will provide the public with an additional opportunity to comment on the proposed Final Plan. Of note, following the public input process and public hearing, two proposals from the proposed Final Plan have been withdrawn, with the Bx28 and Bx34 no longer proposed for route alignment changes. Each route will remain on the route path they travel today.

 

As to the reason why the stops that were eliminated on Story Avenue was restored:

Proposed changes to the Bx6 SBS route alignment, Bx6 Local schedule, and Bx5 schedule will be implemented in 2023 while the rest of the Bronx Redesign Local Plan will be implemented in Summer 2022. This is to avoid the cost of construction associated with installing on-street fare machines that would be needed for approximately one year. Therefore, bus customers should plan to see the proposed schedule changes outlined below implemented in 2023 when MetroCards are retired and OMNY is fully deployed.

So thats why they delayed rerouting it. For once, they were smart.

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7 minutes ago, Lex said:

What's so important about the Bx28's current route between Norwood and Bedford Park? Is it the school? If so, the Bx10 and Concourse buses exist.

It’s mainly the two schools, (Dewitt and BHSOS) and the connection to the 4 train between both of them.

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On 11/3/2021 at 11:41 AM, Lex said:

I'll reiterate that the Bx10 and Concourse buses exist.

On 11/3/2021 at 3:50 PM, NBTA said:

Yeah I don’t know why they continue to run the buses down there. I passed a couple today, bucket empty.

That whole area southwest of Gun Hill Road, east of Bailey Avenue, and west of Jerome-Concourse has always been a paragon of poor planning.  The  :bus_bullet_bx10: roundabout route to Bedford Park Boulevard, and the :bus_bullet_bx1: and :bus_bullet_bx2: duplicating each other makes a person think the routing was just drawn up at random.  If anything, the Bx10 should be serving the (4) at Mosholu, and either the Bx1 or the Bx2 should be heading south down Sedgwick and Reservoir to Bedford Park.

 

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3 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

That whole area southwest of Gun Hill Road, east of Bailey Avenue, and west of Jerome-Concourse has always been a paragon of poor planning.  The  :bus_bullet_bx10: roundabout route to Bedford Park Boulevard, and the :bus_bullet_bx1: and :bus_bullet_bx2: duplicating each other makes a person think the routing was just drawn up at random.  If anything, the Bx10 should be serving the (4) at Mosholu, and either the Bx1 or the Bx2 should be heading south down Sedgwick and Reservoir to Bedford Park.

 

The Bx10 wasn't changed because people that use the route want that connection, so they kept it. That's all it comes down to. Many people want that connection to have access to the hospitals such as Montefiore. We also have a lot of seniors here in Riverdale that are served by people that live east of Broadway. East-West connections are something that was discussed in general and the need to improve them, and it's difficult because of the topography, but the (MTA) promised that they would not sever access to things like hospitals, etc.

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On 11/3/2021 at 9:07 AM, Lex said:

What's so important about the Bx28's current route between Norwood and Bedford Park? Is it the school? If so, the Bx10 and Concourse buses exist.

And the Bx28 is being kept because of the connections. There was a press conference on it and the (MTA) will keep the Bx28 as is as well.

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3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Bx10 wasn't changed because people that use the route want that connection, so they kept it. That's all it comes down to. Many people want that connection to have access to the hospitals such as Montefiore. We also have a lot of seniors here in Riverdale that are served by people that live east of Broadway. East-West connections are something that was discussed in general and the need to improve them, and it's difficult because of the topography, but the (MTA) promised that they would not sever access to things like hospitals, etc.

Except nobody from west of Broadway would be losing access if the Bx10 went to Norwood via Mosholu from Sedgwick- it would actually make the route faster and more direct. 

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33 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Except nobody from west of Broadway would be losing access if the Bx10 went to Norwood via Mosholu from Sedgwick- it would actually make the route faster and more direct. 

Listen, my Assemblyman proposed splitting the Bx10 into two routes because of the complaints about it being unreliable, but ultimately the people that use the route spoke and this is what they want, and they don't want to lose access to anything, including places like Lehman College and Bronx HS of Science. I personally don't use it with any regularity, save maybe once or twice a year if I hop on it a few stops along Henry Hudson Parkway and then get off and walk to Metro-North, but I do realize how slow it is. 

https://www.riverdalepress.com/stories/answer-found-to-bx10-troubles,65613

Personally, I was surprised that basically the line was left untouched, but even the one stop they proposed to eliminate is being kept (2735 Henry Hudson Parkway) and that's because I believe that stop serves a doctor's office. There are always people waiting there, so I'm sure people complained. There are also many elderly people that use the Bx10 and so they are concerned about stop spacing, etc. That's why looking at a bus passing by doesn't tell the whole story.

This press conference mentions crosstown local routes and complaints riders had about proposed changes to some lines. I believe the Bx28 and Bx34 are mentioned. 

 

Hell, even when I attended a meeting a few years ago, there were a section of people there specifically for the Bx34, mainly seniors.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Listen, my Assemblyman proposed splitting the Bx10 into two routes because of the complaints about it being unreliable, but ultimately the people that use the route spoke and this is what they want, and they don't want to lose access to anything, including places like Lehman College and Bronx HS of Science. I personally don't use it with any regularity, save maybe once or twice a year if I hop on it a few stops along Henry Hudson Parkway and then get off and walk to Metro-North, but I do realize how slow it is. 

Personally, I was surprised that basically the line was left untouched, but even the one stop they proposed to eliminate is being kept (2735 Henry Hudson Parkway) and that's because I believe that stop serves a doctor's office. There are always people waiting there, so I'm sure people complained. There are also many elderly people that use the Bx10 and so they are concerned about stop spacing, etc. That's why looking at a bus passing by doesn't tell the whole story.

This press conference mentions crosstown local routes and complaints riders had about proposed changes to some lines. I believe the Bx28 and Bx34 are mentioned. 

Hell, even when I attended a meeting a few years ago, there were a section of people there specifically for the Bx34, mainly seniors.

Except Dinowitz was proposing increasing the Riverdale-Broadway short turns, not fixing the circuitous Bx1/2/10 routing mess near the reservoir, east of Broadway and west of Jerome Avenue.  Also, his absence at that press conference tells me all I need to know.  Not that 30 minutes of political windbags stroking their own egos makes much difference, in the grand scheme of things.

And what exactly are you trying to say about people not wanting to lose access to the schools? Bronx Science is one block from Mosholu Parkway, Lehman College is two.  The under-30 crowd can easily walk that distance; what would senior citizens have to do with it?

If some people are resisting change solely for resisting change, that's another issue.  What I do know is that as someone who rode the Bx10 every day for over a decade, most regular riders were pissed about the winding, non-direct route to the (4), as well as the delays the poor routing helped create.  I didn't see anyone shouting to keep that route as-is.

 

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1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

And what exactly are you trying to say about people not wanting to lose access to the schools? Bronx Science is one block from Mosholu Parkway, Lehman College is two.  The under-30 crowd can easily walk that distance; what would senior citizens have to do with it?

It's not just seniors. Imagine you lose your route going to school and now instead of waking up at say 6:00 in the morning you now need to wake up at 5 to accommodate the 10-15 min walk to school. It's not about the walk being manageable it's about time management and accessibility.

Remember the Bx10 is the only connection to Riverdale east of Broadway and losing a connection to Lehman College or Montefiore is definitely a big no for Riverdale residents. It's also very difficult to find another terminal east besides the current one at Norwood.

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Personally, I was surprised that basically the line was left untouched, but even the one stop they proposed to eliminate is being kept (2735 Henry Hudson Parkway) and that's because I believe that stop serves a doctor's office. There are always people waiting there, so I'm sure people complained. There are also many elderly people that use the Bx10 and so they are concerned about stop spacing, etc. That's why looking at a bus passing by doesn't tell the whole story.

This press conference mentions crosstown local routes and complaints riders had about proposed changes to some lines. I believe the Bx28 and Bx34 are mentioned. 

I don't know why they didn't do something like this to get rid of all the circuitous business involving the Bx10 and Bx28.

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4 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's not just seniors. Imagine you lose your route going to school and now instead of waking up at say 6:00 in the morning you now need to wake up at 5 to accommodate the 10-15 min walk to school. It's not about the walk being manageable it's about time management and accessibility.

Remember the Bx10 is the only connection to Riverdale east of Broadway and losing a connection to Lehman College or Montefiore is definitely a big no for Riverdale residents. It's also very difficult to find another terminal east besides the current one at Norwood.

A full 60 minutes for 10-15 minutes of walking? That's a bit extreme, no?

Regardless, I actually don't hate the Bx10's route precisely because I believe the connections with Lehman and Montefiore are valuable with respect to Riverdale (the only other route that comes close to that is the Bx9, but that doesn't pan west of Broadway, is somewhat removed from Lehman at Kingsbridge Road, and stays well away from Norwood entirely).

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2 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I don't know why they didn't do something like this to get rid of all the circuitous business involving the Bx10 and Bx28.

unknown.png?width=1245&height=547

A lot of people use the Bedford Park Station stop on the Bx10, especially on the weekends, so removing it, wouldn’t make much sense, especially since some trains start at Bedford. Personally, I see the 28 going down Jerome from Gun Hill, and the Bx10 going via Bedford Park, via Bainbridge, up to Woodlawn Station, to be more useful (still got hospital access, still got college access).

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6 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Except Dinowitz was proposing increasing the Riverdale-Broadway short turns, not fixing the circuitous Bx1/2/10 routing mess near the reservoir, east of Broadway and west of Jerome Avenue.  Also, his absence at that press conference tells me all I need to know.  Not that 30 minutes of political windbags stroking their own egos makes much difference, in the grand scheme of things.

And what exactly are you trying to say about people not wanting to lose access to the schools? Bronx Science is one block from Mosholu Parkway, Lehman College is two.  The under-30 crowd can easily walk that distance; what would senior citizens have to do with it?

If some people are resisting change solely for resisting change, that's another issue.  What I do know is that as someone who rode the Bx10 every day for over a decade, most regular riders were pissed about the winding, non-direct route to the (4), as well as the delays the poor routing helped create.  I didn't see anyone shouting to keep that route as-is.

 

Why are you arguing with me for? I know what Dinowitz said, and that was an attempt to appease riders that connect to the (1) train, as they make up a chunk of riders on the line. You asked why changes weren't made and I explained. As I said, they want to keep their connections, and I gave you examples. It obviously doesn't matter how far the walk is because they are keeping every single stop on the route, even the one or two stops they originally proposed to eliminate. At the end of the day, the people that use the route spoke at the meetings, and this is what they want. All I did was explain what the (MTA) said at meetings I attended as to their reasoning on keeping certain connections. If you had such an issue with the proposal, you should've attended the meetings to see what people had to say, as I did, or provided feedback, and people complaining on the bus is not the same thing as attending the meetings and providing feedback.

There were two meetings I went to... One at Christ Church and another one at In-Tech. At the In-Tech meeting, one of the (MTA) folks involved with the redesign said very clearly that they would work to keep certain connections to things like hospitals, etc. Why would Dinowitz need to be at that press conference I posted a link to? He attended the meeting at In-Tech and held an emergency Town Hall Meeting in Riverdale for express bus service because that is what constituents were yelling most about. Yes, the Bx10 is slow, but there is not much that can be done if people want to keep their connections and stops. As I said, the Bx28 and Bx34 are two other routes that are not being changed, so people that use the route spoke, the (MTA) took the feedback and that is that. I will say that the people that spoke were very vocal. In some cases, there were petitions circulated to keep routes as is, and that included contacting elected officials, so there you have it.

This is what is stated for the Bx10:

"The Bx10 routing will not change. The route connects to several important destinations and transfer points.

Key connecting routes include: Bx1, Bx7, Bx9, Bx26, Bx28, and Bx30."

https://new.mta.info/bronxbusredesign/routes/bx10

Those important destinations are things that I mentioned, even if you believe they could simply walk to them with a more direct route.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I don't know why they didn't do something like this to get rid of all the circuitous business involving the Bx10 and Bx28.

unknown.png?width=1245&height=547

If we're being completely honest, the redesign would never fix everything. Jessica Cignarella was the lead person on the Bronx Redesign and she noted to me in a meeting that 70% of the routes would remain as is and 30% would have changes, and that was before they had any real feedback, so obviously their vision for the Bronx was to make some tweaks, not start from scratch like they supposedly want to do with Queens. One thing that has come up a lot either from events I've attended or articles I have read is how difficult it is to travel "crosstown" because of the topography and how the streets are laid out, so even if you severed the Lehman College and Bronx High School connections as @Lex wants, there is still some meandering.

Using the Bx28 as an example, here's what they said:

"Originally, the Final Plan called for streamlining of the Bx28, making it more direct by avoiding circuitous segments along Mosholu Parkway and Paul Avenue. However, strong community opposition demonstrated that the current alignment is valuable and most preferred by existing Bx28 bus customers, especially along the western portion of the route.

After field visits from agency staff members and hearing from members of the community during our February 2020 public hearing, it was agreed that Bx28 would no longer change and remain as-is. The proposed frequency improvements outlined below are still planned for the Bx28."

https://new.mta.info/bronxbusredesign/routes/bx28

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Bx10 wasn't changed because people that use the route want that connection, so they kept it. That's all it comes down to. Many people want that connection to have access to the hospitals such as Montefiore. 

 

Which is why the route looks like an electrocardiogram. 

 

I would have suggested streamlining with a slight extension for better connectivity:  Current path into Sedgwick, then right Goulden, left Bedford Park, left Jerome, right Van Cortlandt Av East, left Bainbridge, right Gun Hill, to White Plains Rd.

 

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