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Via Garibaldi 8

Bronx Redesign Draft Released

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17 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Agreed. Though I'm still very interested in how it will be implemented. That's one ride I would definitely like to experience....with a pillow in tow lmao.
 

I said the exact same thing when I saw it... lol

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A Queens Express Bus rider here....

Regarding the BxM17 - Is it possible that the MTA is looking to ultimately add stops in Queens to the route once the Queens Bus Redesign is under way? Based on the proposed routing, it looks like they could add a stop or two along the Whitestone Expressway. After all, it would be cheaper to have QM 2/20/32 passengers transfer to the BxM17 rather than start a new Wall St route from Bay Terrace.  As for the route itself, it is a long one which would likely get caught up in all sorts of traffic. At a minimum, why wouldn't they send the AM peak trips down the GCP as they already do for the QM 2/30/32? For the PM trips, why don't they use the Super Express routing of the BQE North to Astoria Blvd (I think this is still used for the QM2 and QM20 SX routing)? If needed, the MTA should allow the drivers flexibility to use alternate routes to get to the Throggs Neck Bridge - which is less likely to have heavy north-bound traffic vs the Whitestone Bridge.

Or, the MTA could use other routing for the BxM17 through the Bronx and Manhattan and keep the route out of Queens altogether. I'd be curious to know if the MTA has actually tested the run in a company car or a training bus - that would make some sense.

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Posted (edited)

Here are my thoughts on some of the local bus Bronx Changes (I don't use the buses there since I live in SI but I can tell you some things). I will do the express buses in another post.

Local Buses:

Bx4/Bx4A - Isn't the Bx4A supposed to be a variant of the Bx4 that just takes a different routing? The Bx4A should start and end where the Bx4 does, not be a short turn of if. Even though the combined routes will have a headway of 8 minutes or better from 12 minutes or better, the segment west of Southern Boulevard got its service cut from 12 minutes or better (Bx4 & Bx4A) to 15 minutes or better (Bx4 only).

Bx6 SBS: Guess they wanted to have the SBS sere more residential areas.

Bx8/Bx24: I guess this change to made to straighten up the most meandrous route in the city (after this change I'll guess we'll have to see what they do to the S57 - the soon to be most meandrous route in the city). I'll assume that the Bx24 would run more frequently than it does now to cover the area in Throngs Neck.

Bx10: I'm surprised that they didn't try to straighten the route east of Bailey Ave. Looks a bit meandrous in that area.

Bx11/Bx35/Bx36/Bx40: Like how they straightened the routes. Would make travel times much better.

Bx15/M125: So they decided to split the Bx15 to improve reliability on that route, ok. But I feel like this split could have been done better. The routing of the M125 is fine but the Bx15 should have it's western terminal in Manhattan to make connections to the subway and other Manhattan bus routes, preferably the 125th Street (4)(5)(6) station with the M35 and M102 (Maybe have some Bx15 buses short-turn at The Hub if they are too concerned about reliability). The M125's main issue is the proposed frequencies. The (MTA) says that the M125 would run every 8 minutes or better all day. With the M101 and the M60 SBS covering most of 125th street (The M100 is going to be cut back to Amsterdam/125th), I believe that this Bx15/M125 split would end up having the same fate as the M5/M55 split with the M125 getting the shorter end of the stick and ultimately end up running every 15-20 minutes most of the day. Unless if they take the M101 off of 125th when the Manhattan redesign comes, the M125 would be there just for coverage.

Bx18: They basically turned this route into a Morris Heights circulator, I'm fine with that.

Bx20: I'm surprised that this route didn't get the ax due to its low ridership and duplication of other routes😀

Co-Op City (Bx23/Bx26/Bx28/Bx29/Bx30/Bx38/Q50): What the (MTA) wants to do here is to have the Bx23 become the Co-Op City circulator and have every other route meet the Bx23 at some point in the route. Sounds good on paper but really isn't the best solution. This requires most people in Co-Op city not connecting with the (6) train to transfer. The Bx23 can still be the main route for getting around Co-Op City but there should be some changes. What could be done to improve service is to have the Q50 also serve the loop to give people a direct ride to Queens since Co-Op City is a big ridership generator for the Q50. I also think that the Routing of the Bx23 should be modified to serve the Dyre Avenue line since a lot of Co-Op city riders want to go to the (5) and not the (6) and with the Bx38 being eliminated, that is not an option without a transfer. Below is the map of my proposed Bx23 service. With the Q50 serving Co-Op city as well, The Bx23 would run every 5 minutes during the rush, every 10 minutes other times and every 20 minutes overnight. The Q50 would keep its regular frequency.

Map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19712vcjpTNgouWudYYO4UgFdWMRb1jK4&usp=sharing

Bx29: Good job they are adding overnight service. It's very dangerous to walk out of City Island because you have to walk along a highway to reach the mainland.

Bx30: Guess the BL-60, 61 and 62 buses are going to be closed-door in the Bronx now.

Bx42: This route went from a variant of the Bx40 to a shuttle route that goes to the (6) train. Wonder how this would work out.

Bx46: I'm surprised that there were zero changes made to this route. Saying that this route has little ridership and is relatively short and runs infrequently, I would think that they would have done something to this route. Oh well! Just another missed opportunity to make service better.

 

  

Edited by Lil 57

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2 hours ago, Elmhurst said:

It's obvious that inexperienced people redesigned this bus network. This makes me wonder how the Queens redesign will look.

A Co-op City-Downtown route could work a lot better than you realize. It's just other co-op city routes that don't work. So no this is not "inexperienced" work. They did a better job than the overhaul of the SIMs, but far from perfect.

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41 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Co-Op City (Bx23/Bx26/Bx28/Bx29/Bx30/Bx38/Q50): What the (MTA) wants to do here is to have the Bx23 become the Co-Op City circulator and have every other route meet the Bx23 at some point in the route. Sounds good on paper but really isn't the best solution. This requires most people in Co-Op city not connecting with the (6) train to transfer. The Bx23 can still be the main route for getting around Co-Op City but there should be some changes. What could be done to improve service is to have the Q50 also serve the loop to give people a direct ride to Queens since Co-Op City is a big ridership generator for the Q50. I also think that the Routing of the Bx23 should be modified to serve the Dyre Avenue line since a lot of Co-Op city riders want to go to the (5) and not the (6) and with the Bx38 being eliminated, that is not an option without a transfer. Below is the map of my proposed Bx23 service. With the Q50 serving Co-Op city as well, The Bx23 would run every 5 minutes during the rush, every 10 minutes other times and every 20 minutes overnight. The Q50 would keep its regular frequency.

I'll be there on the 25th For the Co-Op feedback session. Beside the BXM17 everything designed is the total opposite of what was asked for most folks were pushing for pre-2010 service patterns. Here's what was being handed out from the Co-Op Fastfoward meeting. I feel they're going to tweak some of these plans for sure can't wait to hear the public feedback.

kGqmyWT.jpg

pCqtiUY.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Ok, Here are my thoughts on the express buses for the Bronx Redesign.

Express Buses:

BxM2: I believe that the (MTA) wanted to make this route more "West Side", but with their concept, they eliminated express bus service from Riverdale to important ridership generators like the museums on 5th ave and the hospitals (Lenox Hill & Mount Sinai). The BxM2 is fine the way it is.

BxM4/BxM5: The BxM4 route is one big loss to people along this line. First, they eliminated service along the Concourse because of subway duplication but the people that used the BxM4 over there didn't want to deal with the subway and now being forced to take the subway. Service should still be kept along the Concourse with some peak trips being super express trips that bypass the Concourse. They also cut off-peak service and with the BxM5 not serving Wakefield, Wakefield only has peak service now. The BxM5 should be extended to Wakefield when the BxM4 isn't running at the very least. Not happy with this at all. The BxM5 should be quicker than the BxM11 because it has been moved to a wider street which should increase the speed of the buses.

BxM6/BxM10: I saw this coming, However since the BxM10 runs more frequent on Saturdays than the BxM6, this could be seen as a service increase for Parkchester residents.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            BxM8: Hopefully they increase the City Island trips.

BxM17: Sounds good on paper but there would need a lot of bus lanes for people to not be sitting in traffic for 2+ hours. The trip can be up to 2 hours in bad traffic and saying that to get From Co-Op city to South Ferry via the BxM7 and the (R) train is just over an hour and a half, this might not look as appealing if there are no Bus/HOV lanes added on the non-stop portion.

BxM18: A few more stops could be added to attract ridership. On the west side, I would add stops at 42nd Street, 51st Street and 57th Street (Since the BxM18 stops on those streets now and west-side Midtown could get some riders from this.) What the BxM18 does better now is that it stops at the WFC which used to be exclusive to the SI express buses. However, there is no free transfer from the QM and BxM midtown Buses to Downtown with this routing. BxM18 riders also have to sit through Inwood.

Edited by Lil 57

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10 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

BxM18: A few more stops could be added to attract ridership. On the west side, I would add stops at 42nd Street, 51st Street and 57th Street (Since the BxM18 stops on those streets now and west-side Midtown could get some riders from this.) What the BxM18 does better now is that it stops at the WFC which used to be exclusive to the SI express buses. However, there is no free transfer from the QM and BxM midtown Buses to Downtown with this routing.

I think the BxM2 should keep its current routing while the BxM18 would make stops along the West Side from W 110 to W 34. Or just create a new route entirely if they really want a nonstop bus going to Downtown.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

They also cut off-peak service and with the BxM5 not serving Wakefield, Wakefield only has peak service now. The BxM5 should be extended to Wakefield when the BxM4 isn't running at the very least. Not happy with this at all. The BxM5 should be quicker than the BxM11 because it has been moved to a wider street which should increase the speed of the buses

The BXM5 serves Wakefield just not the extreme Northern end. Just 238th and 241st cut on the Wakefield side.

Edited by RailRunRob

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15 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

BxM18: This is a bad idea; Hudson Yards isn't a growth market like they think it is

the proposed BxM18 via the west side will bypass Hudson yards. no stops in that area. it would only pick up below chambers street only 

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Just now, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the proposed BxM18 via the west side will bypass Hudson yards. no stops in that area. it would only pick up below chambers street only 

It's listed in the description of stops added/removed. The map is wrong.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the proposed BxM18 via the west side will bypass Hudson yards. no stops in that area. it would only pick up below chambers street only 

"Service would be rerouted to operate via Inwood to the Henry Hudson Parkway, then to Riverside Drive to serve Hudson Yards and Downtown. The proposed routing change will provide Riverdale and Inwood customers with new direct service to Hudson Yards"

Edited by Bay Ridge Express

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1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

A Co-op City-Downtown route could work a lot better than you realize. It's just other co-op city routes that don't work. So no this is not "inexperienced" work. They did a better job than the overhaul of the SIMs, but far from perfect.

Unless the grand tour of Queens is proposed than we got issues. 

2 ways to avoid the grand tour of Queens. 

1) 278 to Triboro. Triboro to 2nd Avenue Exp to 86th or 57th. Right on 86th or 57th to 5th Avenue. (Possible Corresponding stop on 23rd) than FDR DRIVE- DOWNTOWN with proposed stops. 

2 95 to Riverside Drive to follow BxM18 proposed pattern to Downtown via West Side nonstops until WFC than Battery Park &, So. Ferry Sta.. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Unless the grand tour of Queens is proposed than we got issues. 

2 ways to avoid the grand tour of Queens. 

1) 278 to Triboro. Triboro to 2nd Avenue Exp to 86th or 57th. Right on 86th or 57th to 5th Avenue. (Possible Corresponding stop on 23rd) than FDR DRIVE- DOWNTOWN with proposed stops. 

2 95 to Riverside Drive to follow BxM18 proposed pattern to Downtown via West Side nonstops until WFC than Battery Park &, So. Ferry Sta.. 

It seems the proposed route would be the fastest for Bus. True traffic is crazy sometimes on the LIE but im sure it's better than the local roads. How long does it take the current BXM18 to travel uptown?

eg4S5BB.png

Edited by RailRunRob

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22 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

From I understand the Bx15 LTD would basically be the Bx55 to Fordham Plaza.

E 166 St is also being altered; the stop is eliminated for LTD service.

So why was the Bx55 discontinued in the first place if they were going to bring it back now?

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On the M100 proposal (included since the link does), that route should be kept to at least 125 Street/St. Nicholas Avenue, as it has no subway connection on its southern end as proposed.

I'm surprised that the Bx46 wasn't made a branch of the Bx6. A way to pay for that might be to have the Bx6 Local not go to Manhattan when the SBS is running and terminate it at Yankee Stadium. Then: Bx6A - via 161/163 and Hunts Point Avenue, and Bx6B - via 161/163 and Longwood.

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3 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Bx15/M125: So they decided to split the Bx15 to improve reliability on that route, ok. But I feel like this split could have been done better. The routing of the M125 is fine but the Bx15 should have it's western terminal in Manhattan to make connections to the subway and other Manhattan bus routes, preferably the 125th Street (4)(5)(6) station with the M35 and M102 (Maybe have some Bx15 buses short-turn at The Hub if they are too concerned about reliability). The M125's main issue is the proposed frequencies. The (MTA) says that the M125 would run every 8 minutes or better all day. With the M101 and the M60 SBS covering most of 125th street (The M100 is going to be cut back to Amsterdam/125th), I believe that this Bx15/M125 split would end up having the same fate as the M5/M55 split with the M125 getting the shorter end of the stick and ultimately end up running every 15-20 minutes most of the day. Unless if they take the M101 off of 125th when the Manhattan redesign comes, the M125 would be there just for coverage.

I just have this feeling when it comes to the Manhattan redesign and the Lexington Avenue routes, the 101 will be shorted to either 96 or Hunter College, the 103 becomes the limited, and the 102 doesn't change.  

But there's no real direct path for the 101 to get front Amsterdam to Lex/3rd without using 125th. So the 125 and the 101 have to be the local to the 60. 

As for the Bx15 going to Lex, it will still suffer from the Triboro.  So I can understand why they would leave it in the Bronx.  But true Bus Lane enforcement of 125th is needed and the 60 should have been one of the routes that have cameras to issue tickets as well. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Whoops 😲 then I'd be detouring on Northern to gcp 

I don't think supervision would like that lol

I used to see X1's on 4th Avenue sometimes but I haven't seen any since the SIM changes. I think they really cracked down on ops taking unauthorized detours.

Edited by Around the Horn

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5 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

A Queens Express Bus rider here....

Regarding the BxM17 - Is it possible that the MTA is looking to ultimately add stops in Queens to the route once the Queens Bus Redesign is under way? Based on the proposed routing, it looks like they could add a stop or two along the Whitestone Expressway. After all, it would be cheaper to have QM 2/20/32 passengers transfer to the BxM17 rather than start a new Wall St route from Bay Terrace.  As for the route itself, it is a long one which would likely get caught up in all sorts of traffic. At a minimum, why wouldn't they send the AM peak trips down the GCP as they already do for the QM 2/30/32? For the PM trips, why don't they use the Super Express routing of the BQE North to Astoria Blvd (I think this is still used for the QM2 and QM20 SX routing)? If needed, the MTA should allow the drivers flexibility to use alternate routes to get to the Throggs Neck Bridge - which is less likely to have heavy north-bound traffic vs the Whitestone Bridge.

Or, the MTA could use other routing for the BxM17 through the Bronx and Manhattan and keep the route out of Queens altogether. I'd be curious to know if the MTA has actually tested the run in a company car or a training bus - that would make some sense.

Or maybe the BxM17 via Fresh Meadows to kill off the QM1 and QM5 once and for all?

20 riders from the Bronx and 20 from Queens per bus along with HOV lanes on whatever highways it needs to take (sorry, I don't know Queens too well) and the runs will print money. stirthepot.gif

And for the Queens redesign it would be relabeled QBxM1C!duck.gif

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Posted (edited)

Let me finish the rest of my commentary, then I'll comment on anything else I see fit....

Bx28: Don't agree with the changes on either end of the route.... Always thought that if there is one route that should serve all sections of Co-op, then pan out westward to serve more of the Bronx, IMO, it should be the Bx28.... It's the main reason why I never cared for the creation of the (current) Bx38.... Also, way I see it, only thing that should be terminating inside the mall is the Bx12/SBS - not the (current) Bx29, not the (current) Bx38, & not the proposed Bx28.... I was never high on running the Bx5 past PBP anyway, regardless if it's only on the weekend....

As for service south/west of Mosholu, this'll be the unpopular opinion, but I do not see the point in having it utilize Bedford Park Blvd & I would completely take the route off Jerome.... After having served 205th (D), I would retain the current routing up until BPB/Paul - where it would stop dead (terminate).... The Bx28 to Fordham is inefficient; I'd bid farewell to it, in an attempt to take some of the strain off the route, instead of bastardizing the thing in Co-op....

Bx29: I'll miss it going to Co-op, but if it means frontloading a crapton of service on the Bx23, then unfortunately, I have to agree with no longer having the Bx29 act as a supplement past PBP......

Not trying to be funny, but if we're talking about adding a hawk to a service going back & forth b/w City Island & PBP, then the (proposed) Bx24 from Locust Point may as well stop dead at PBP & have this (proposed) Bx29 run over to HMC from PBP full time (incl. overnights) instead.... In other words, have the Bx29 run from City Island to HMC....

Bx30: Pelham Pkwy/WPR is a bad full time terminal.... Dreiser loop only (in Co-Op), to then backdoor its way out of Co-op, is a stub.... I don't see too many people that would want to be bothered with a route like this [current riders north of Gun Hill, especially] or [anyone south of Gun Hill along/around Boston].... The thing needs a major ridership gen' & I don't see Pelham Pkwy (2) being it for a route like this.... The diversion to Gun Hill (2) works for current Bx30 riders (also, note how many ppl xfer for the Bx41 SBS after coming off Bx28's & Bx30's).....

IDRC for wanting to fill that (MTA) service gap along Boston rd... AFAIC, Bee Line can have Boston b/w Gun Hill & Pelham Pkwy.

Bx32: No routing changes, but I Lol'd at this.... The Bx32 is nice & straight & direct, but.... let's remove 25% of the route's stops..... IMO, speed isn't near as much a problem, as much as overall usage is on the route.... It has a similar problem the B7 does here in East Flatbush; it's surrounded to the east & west by 2 higher frequency routes that better caters to the people's needs, on top of it....

If this proposal comes to fruition, expect significant cuts... You're going to have current riders considering taking that extra minute or two to walk to Webster or GC (on top of people that already do), over having to additionally walk to the next nearest stop along the route, whose primary stop{s} would no longer exist.....

Bx33: No routing changes, but removing the Fred. Douglass stop is insignificant, negligible, and downright petty.... Most people I notice on the WB Bx33 disembark at that stop - so much so that you can have it pass for being the actual last "official" WB stop..... Those that need the subway (or, have to take that hike up those steps to get to CCNY & points west), the b/o would/could still drop ppl. off at St. Nich' as a courtesy & what not.....

Bx34: Conceptually, I want to agree with the shift along Webster, but I get the feeling that ridership would noticeably (but not drastically) decrease because of it..... I get the sense that people use the thing at Valentine/Fordham to actually avoid the chaos around Webster/Fordham - and I can't say I blame them... Of course, the drawback is getting stymied along the way (points south of BPB) whenever there's some double parked vehicle, or school bus, or garbage truck or something.... Not fun at all.

Bx35: I should have done this commentary all in one shot (I still disagree with sending Bx11's to Parkchester, but at least part of that pocket of the Bx11 b/w Southern Blvd. & the Sheridan would be retained).... I honestly hate the fact that this route is even being touched, to be honest (as I'd argue that it's the most efficient route in the entire borough).... So to sum it up, this is neutral to me...

Bx36: Saw something like this (routing-wise) coming..... It's obviously more direct than the current route is, but there's still a significant demand for the Bx36 on 180th; I wouldn't just wash my hands with that..... If a 180th st branch of the route were to be proposed, I'd be more on par with this proposal.... Not that it's a bad one, but I can't be fully 100% on board with it....

Bx38: No qualms whatsoever - as long as current resources go towards more Bx28 service.... Pre-2010 Bx28 should've never been broken up to begin with....

Bx40: Well, with regards to the proposed Bx36, if we're going to do away w/ the Bx40/42 being "the" East Tremont route{s}, we may as well sever service accordingly.... They attempt to do that with the proposed Bx42, but running Bx40's via 180th b/w River Park Towers & Throgs Neck, I can't side with.... I would simply have the Bx40 maintaining the current route b/w River Park Towers & Westchester Sq. - and again, have the Bx36 equally split (frequency-wise) between running via E. 180th (b/w Boston & Webster, like the current routing) & via E. Tremont (like, as proposed)....

Bx42: That routing along Balcom is not possible; it dead ends mid-block b/w Sampson & Miles.... Aside from that, I wouldn't bother with a Westchester Sq. - Throgs Neck route anyway.... May as well run it out to W. Farms Sq. (2)(5).... Down in Throgs Neck, service would either terminate at [Harding/Emerson] & [SUNY Maritime] - with most the service dedicated to the former....

Q50: The very reason this route was created was to break up the old QBx1..... Being frugal with Bx23 service, a compromise for those in Co-op IMO was to have the Q50, LTD service, run up to Co-op.... What I never liked about it, is that it doesn't serve Dreiser.... The demand for the Q50 from Queens, is not to have it run up to Co-op.... I don't have a problem whatsoever with ending this at PBP....

side note: As they involve Co-op City, my problem with these proposals isn't that they're aiming to quell the amt. of supplementary routes b/w PBP & Co-op - it's that they're FURTHER going on with the de-interlining of the Bx26/28/30 in ALL of Co-op (by having each of 'em serve separate sections/portions of Co-op)....

M100: I find it funny that the M100 is chosen to be bastardized in a truncation to Amsterdam/125th, over having the long-winded M101 broken up.... I would much more rather have more M100 service running b/w East Harlem & Inwood, over having more BPH running from frickin East Village all the way to Washington Heights - LTD or not..... There is less of a need for the latter over the former.... This will go ways to forcing people into taking M101's..... Totally disagree with this proposal....

M125: See Bx15 commentary.... Don't agree the Bx15 should be broken up....

Edited by B35 via Church

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7 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

It seems the proposed route would be the fastest for Bus. True traffic is crazy sometimes on the LIE but im sure it's better than the local roads. How long does it take the current BXM18 to travel uptown?

eg4S5BB.png

 

Buses aren't allowed on the FDR Drive north of 20th Street. You'll need to refigure that route using 2nd Avenue.

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

M100: I find it funny that the M100 is chosen to be bastardized in a truncation to Amsterdam/125th, over having the long-winded M101 broken up.

well hopefully whenever the Manhattan redesign comes about, it will be split.

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Ok after reviewing the proposal, here are my thoughts:

 

Bx6SBS:

l like the idea of having it operate as a Story SBS but after riding the Bx6SBS during rush hour, a lot of people utilize it in Hunts Pt. Maybe create a seperate SBS branch (Bx6A/B SBS) or a new route all together. 

Bx15/Bx15LTD:

This one is tricky. I agree the reason why the route suffers from being late all the time is because of 125th St, but I dont think it should be split. Instead of having the Bx15 LTD end at Fordham Plz, it should end at 125th St & Lexington.

Bx46:

They left this alone!?!

M125:

Ok, being the southern portion of the Bx15, I would do it like this:

Fordham Plaza to Ft George-193rd St via 125th St, replacing the M101 north of 125th St while the M101 becomes a LTD only route between 6th St and 125th St, terminating where the M103 does now.

BxM17:

The concept is good on paper just not in the real world...that bus is going to get delayed so much. If bus lanes were implemented it *might* work.

 

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1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Buses aren't allowed on the FDR Drive north of 20th Street. You'll need to refigure that route using 2nd Avenue.

The point of this is it shows the fastest routes from A to B. The only one of the 3 options that a bus could use is the BXM17 routing FDR, LIE,Van Wyke via Whitestone. So it's one of the fastest routes from Lower Manhattan and Co-Op period car or bus. I'm familiar with the all the parkway, Drive restrictions. 

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