MAJOR update on the 42nd Street Shuttle Rebuild for ADA

[4 via Mosholu]

51 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Time to fan the shuttle everyone! I will. My favorite spot in the system will go away and the history of IRT will be whitewashed. That is the MTA for you.

I hope I ride the 42nd Street line before August 16, @Union Tpke. Do you have any days where you're gonna be out fanning the 42nd Street line?

[Union Tpke]

3 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

I hope I ride the 42nd Street line before August 16, @Union Tpke. Do you have any days where you're gonna be out fanning the 42nd Street line?

I am not sure yet.

[LGA Link N Train]

I went out fanning on the 42nd Street huttle. I recorded that opening where you can see the and trains, which you can check you here:

 

 

[Eric B]

Quote

Adding a new, modern turnstile area: This spacious mezzanine will have new LED lighting, glass barriers and new digital screens that provide a large station entrance for Times Square customers

Is that the one in the mid block arcade on the north side of 42nd? It doesn't mention the passageway that is apart of, but instead mentions this new entrance connected with 1 Times Square.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Eric B said:

Is that the one in the mid block arcade on the north side of 42nd? It doesn't mention the passageway that is apart of, but instead mentions this new entrance connected with 1 Times Square.

I believe they're referring to this one in the bottom of this image

and here too

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I went out fanning on the 42nd Street huttle. I recorded that opening where you can see the and trains, which you can check you here:

 

 

Anyone have a video of the shuttle going in or out of service and to the depots at GCT or TSQ?

Always wanted to see the “wrongway” ops on the B-way or Lex tracks

[rbrome]

Why are people so concerned about signals on this line? If it's going to be simplified to basically just two tracks, each with one train going back and forth, with no chance of any trains ever even sharing any track in normal operation, (unless I have the proposal wildly wrong?!)) what exactly is the benefit of CBTC or UWB? I mean this line barely needs any signals at all. It should absolutely be automated, but advanced (read: expensive) signal tech seems completely unnecessary. 

[Calvin]

Just a thought for this project: Is the new segment and assignment refers to two tracks to be a 4 car train and a 6 car on another track? Like the current 3-4-3 setup

[JeremiahC99]

10 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Just a thought for this project: Is the new segment and assignment refers to two tracks to be a 4 car train and a 6 car on another track? Like the current 3-4-3 setup

No. It will be two tracks with 6-car trains on both tracks.

[Deucey]

38 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

No. It will be two tracks with 6-car trains on both tracks.

But only two trains when three could be run easily; four if  were ambitious and not rubbish.

[JeremiahC99]

7 minutes ago, Deucey said:

But only two trains when three could be run easily; four if  were ambitious and not rubbish.

How would three to four train sets run on the new segment when the new line would have only 2 tracks?

[RR503]

15 hours ago, rbrome said:

Why are people so concerned about signals on this line? If it's going to be simplified to basically just two tracks, each with one train going back and forth, with no chance of any trains ever even sharing any track in normal operation, (unless I have the proposal wildly wrong?!)) what exactly is the benefit of CBTC or UWB? I mean this line barely needs any signals at all. It should absolutely be automated, but advanced (read: expensive) signal tech seems completely unnecessary. 

How do you plan to automate a line without a signal system (CBTC) that supports automation?

Automation, though, is never happening. NYCT labor relations are nowhere near where they need to be to allow even small productivity improvements. The situation equally a tragedy of the American labor relations system as it is one of NYCT, but that’s moot. 

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

How would three to four train sets run on the new segment when the new line would have only 2 tracks?

With extreme skill.

(Or you have the consists in motion between stations when the others are platforming.)

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

With extreme skill.

(Or you have the consists in motion between stations when the others are platforming.)

At this point, you are just better off running two 6-car trains operating independently on each of the two tracks. That’s how it was done for the  shuttle during phase 2 of the Myrtle Work, and it can be done here. We could see an increase is trains per hour from this, but I do see the line operating the same service today, but with increased capacity.

[LexAveExp5]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:48 PM, Union Tpke said:

-For the first time, two stations on the same line will be in the same station complex (5 Av and Times Sq on the ); 

lol isn’t the 2/3 at both ends of the Fulton St Transit Hub? You can get off at Park Place, walk through the E WTC terminal, and transfer to the 2/3 at Fulton St

[Eric B]

On 8/2/2019 at 11:52 PM, Around the Horn said:

I believe they're referring to this one in the bottom of this image

and here too

I'm just noticing they haven't mentioned the one on the other side of the shuttle (connecting to the other end of the platform, and shown on the right of the bottom photo), and hope it hasn't been dropped or something.

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, LexAveExp5 said:

lol isn’t the 2/3 at both ends of the Fulton St Transit Hub? You can get off at Park Place, walk through the E WTC terminal, and transfer to the 2/3 at Fulton St

There is no free transfer between WTC/Chambers/Cortlandt and Fulton.

[Union Tpke]

STRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS
9 PM to 6 AM, Mon to Sat until Aug 30
42 Street Shuttle - board all trains at tracks 3 and 4 

During this time, track 1 is closed due to construction.
______________________________

[Calvin]

Q: After August 30th, is the shuttle work on phase 2 or continuation for phase 1?

Edited August 5, 2019 by Calvin

[Union Tpke]

I have the Times Square Station Complex Reconstruction Conceptual Design Proposal from March 10, 1993, which includes a different plan for the shuttle, which I will upload later.

[JeremiahC99]

23 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

The links are being earmarked as we speak.  My best info suggests they will be from the R-142A fleet currently assigned to .  Eventually.

Its no secret that the R-142's or really ANY unitized NTT equipment is quite adaptable in terms of desired train length, so while it would be no big deal to make up a six-car set as opposed to a five, it would be necessary to remove four 5-car links from the revenue pool to do so.  That would yield the three extra "B" cars to do so, but of necessity leave 2 excess "A" cars for use as spares.  As long as the cars' electrical connections face the right way at each end, the car numbering sequence is secondary.  If you might remember, NYCT tried some 11-car R-160 trains on the and several years ago and they basically worked quite well, but were limited operationally by off-route platform lengths.

 

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:27 PM, m2fwannabe said:

Been a while, I see!

Heads up for R-62A fleet changes after the August 16 start of Grand Central Shuttle reconstruction.

Possibility of more R-62A's heading to the , or maybe to work service.  Maybe secondary moves involving the ?  Maybe even the ??

The plan is to have future service provided by two 6-car links (R-188?  From ?) with operational CBTC.

In any case it all starts in 13 days when Track 1 is "retired" (temporarily).

 

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 3:45 PM, m2fwannabe said:

So the word is, the LIV R-62A fleet gets reduced to about 15 in favor of an enlarged contingent at WES.  Sounds like 5 or 6 cars will be moving on to the .

When construction is far enough along to introduce 6-car trains, the plan is to modify three sets of existing  R-142A's from 5's to 6's.

Later equipment replacement may grow out of the developing R-262 contract.

I moved this here since this is about the 42nd Street Shuttle Fleet, not the R188 fleet.

Anyway, I do feel that if we see need 15 cars for the new operations, then what I could see is 5 three car R62As linked together. 4 3-car sets could be attached together for two 6-car trains, with that 5th Set sitting at Livonia Yard for inspections.

Honestly, I was expecting to see operations similar to the shuttle service they had running when service was cut between Myrtle-Broadway and Myrtle-Wyckoff. Here, two-6 car trains were used for the shuttle service, while the other two sets were kept in the Fresh Pond Yard for a spare factor. For the 42nd Street Shuttle, what they should do is to take 24 cars and unitize them into 6-car sets, with three cars having seats removed. At this point, two of those 6-car trains would be utilized at a time, while the other two sit in the yard for inspections. The units will be swapped every few weeks.

Also, aren't the R262s coming in 6-car sets fresh from the factory for the 42nd Street shuttle service?

And also, if the R62As get displaced from the shuttle for automation, where would they head to? The ?, the ?

[Calvin]

10 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I moved this here since this is about the 42nd Street Shuttle Fleet, not the R188 fleet.

Anyway, I do feel that if we see need 15 cars for the new operations, then what I could see is 5 three car R62As linked together. 4 3-car sets could be attached together for two 6-car trains, with that 5th Set sitting at Livonia Yard for inspections.

Honestly, I was expecting to see operations similar to the shuttle service they had running when service was cut between Myrtle-Broadway and Myrtle-Wyckoff. Here, two-6 car trains were used for the shuttle service, while the other two sets were kept in the Fresh Pond Yard for a spare factor. For the 42nd Street Shuttle, what they should do is to take 24 cars and unitize them into 6-car sets, with three cars having seats removed. At this point, two of those 6-car trains would be utilized at a time, while the other two sit in the yard for inspections. The units will be swapped every few weeks.

Also, aren't the R262s coming in 6-car sets fresh from the factory for the 42nd Street shuttle service?

And also, if the R62As get displaced from the shuttle for automation, where would they head to? The ?, the ?

The  train. If they move 5 out of the 20 cars they have, they'll have 45 trains total for now. 

 

By August 16th, the units may just be one 3 car and 4 car trains in two tracks with the other 3 and 4 at the yard, giving 14 total with a spare that could be in refuse. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Calvin

[Union Tpke]

I have added more to the Wikipedia article on the Shuttle about the conveyor-belt plan of the 1950s, and about a plan from 1949. It is crazy how much history there is for a two-station line.

[JeremiahC99]

10 minutes ago, Calvin said:

The  train. If they move 5 out of the 20 cars they have, they'll have 45 trains total for now. 

 

By August 16th, the units may just be one 3 car and 4 car trains in two tracks with the other 3 and 4 at the yard, giving 14 total with a spare that could be in refuse. 

I was talking about when the automation and 6-car operation is in full swing in 2022. If the plan for modification of three  R142A 5-car sets into 6-car units goes forward, then where would the remaining R62As go? The  as well? Also, would the 15 R142As from the  be replaced or will they do fine with 15 fewer cars?

[Calvin]

18 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was talking about when the automation and 6-car operation is in full swing in 2022. If the plan for modification of three  R142A 5-car sets into 6-car units goes forward, then where would the remaining R62As go? The  as well? Also, would the 15 R142As from the  be replaced or will they do fine with 15 fewer cars?

Prob what you mentioned, the  . As for the  , they'll do fine, no shortage there.