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Via Garibaldi 8

Law enforcement to crack down on NYC subway assaults, fare evasion: Cuomo

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Law enforcement to crack down on NYC subway assaults, fare evasion: Cuomo

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The additional law enforcement agents will soon be deployed to the subway system to help combat an increase of assaults against transit workers and what the MTA believes to be an increase in fare evasion. Photo Credit: David Handschuh

By Vincent Barone 

vin.barone@amny.com  @vinbarone

Updated June 17, 2019 2:09 PM

Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Monday announced he would be directing 500 additional law enforcement agents to the subway system to combat assaults against transit workers and what the MTA believes to be an increase in fare evasion. Cuomo said he also will explore additional video monitoring.

“There’s no doubt these are major problems, and they have been for a long time,” said Cuomo at a news conference at his midtown office, adding that no goals had yet been established to judge the effort’s success. 

Though crime in the subways, as in the city more generally, is low, Cuomo said the uptick in worker attacks and fare evasion should not be allowed to continue. The MTA will also explore a new design for the fare areas — which include turnstiles and subway emergency gates — that would discourage turnstile jumping or passing through open emergency gates, Cuomo said. The state-controlled transit authority estimates it lost $225 million in potential revenue from fare evasion in 2018. 

Of the 500 new police officers, 200 will be added NYPD officers; 200 will be redeployed MTA police and another 100 will be transferred from the MTA Bridge and Tunnel police force. The force will begin ramping up on Monday, with the added officers focusing on 50 subway stations and another 50 bus routes. Cuomo said there is a correlation between stations and routes where there is a high level of worker assaults and fare evasion.

Public defenders and civil rights activists have winced at the prospect of adding police to the city transit system, after what they charge to be years of discriminatory enforcement against poor and minority commuters.

MTA chairman Pat Foye said the effort was not about increasing fare evasion arrests.  

“This is about deterrence, not arrest,” Foye said. 

Some of the initiative would be funded through $40 million in criminal forfeiture funds from Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance, though the city would have to pay for the additional NYPD staffing, Cuomo said. 

“This partnership means more eyes and ears in stations, and more officers for New Yorkers to turn to when they need help," said de Blasio in a statement. "The additional officers we’re deploying to the subway system will protect riders, prevent fare evasion and respond in emergencies.”

As the MTA wades through a financial crisis amid a ridership decline, the authority in recent months has been drumming up concern around the level of fare evasion on the subways and local bus routes. NYC Transit president Andy Byford in March called for more cops in the transit system after the authority claimed that on average one in five bus riders avoid paying the fare.

But critics are skeptical of the MTA’s figures. Fare evasion is calculated by survey samples of select subway stations and bus routes across all boroughs. Those surveys take place during peak and off-peak commuting hours and are then applied across the system. The authority surveyed 140 bus routes — about 59 percent of all its local routes — but it has not provided details on how many surveys were taken or for how long each survey lasted.

Danny Pearlstein, a spokesman for the nonprofit Riders Alliance, said he believes the debate around fare evasion is a “distraction” from the real issue: poor subway and bus service.

“The fare evasion conversation overall is a red herring. When the governor talks about fare evasion he’s throwing the subway’s problems back on riders,” Pearlstein said. “I don’t think [the MTA] really has the data. Their analysis is pretty thin around why they think there is more fare evasion.”

Cuomo's added enforcement also comes as the MTA negotiates its contract with the Transport Workers Union Local 100, which represents more than 40,000 MTA bus and subway workers. Cuomo, who has a close relationship with the union, described an increasing number of assaults and harassment against the transit workforce, but his office did not immediately provide data on those incidents.

One of the most recent incidents occurred Saturday, at around 3:30 a.m., when a man punched a transit worker in the face in the 145th Street station of the 3 line in Harlem. Police described the incident as an unprovoked attack. The worker was hospitalized and treated for a cut to his face. Cops are still searching for the suspect.

"This is a big victory for Local 100 and for our members," TWU Local 100 president Tony Utano said in a statement. "We want to go to work and do our jobs and go home to our families unharmed. We are sick and tired of the abuse. We are hopeful that these additional officers will not only deter attacks against our members but also result in quick arrests when crimes do take place."

Source: https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-crime-nyc-1.32521139

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If the extra law enforcement presence is about safety, I'm all for it. The presence of PD in certain locations would act to deter crime.

As for reducing fare evasion:

1. IMO, they should get rid of the SBS articulated buses and the pay-before-you-board (honor system?) concept. Let's go back to more drivers driving more buses. It worked well enough on the Q44 for many years. We don't need constant fussing with road and sidewalk construction to implement the SBS system. Is it really a wise idea to narrow roads near a hospital in the name of increasing bus speed (I'm thinking the SBS lanes near NYPQ at Main St and Booth Memorial Ave in Flushing)? Also, this isn't Europe. Let's keep things simple with a farebox in the front, next to the driver.

2. The MTA should acccept cash. The PBL's in Queens did this until 1997, and NYBS and Liberty Lines did this until the MTA takeover. Simply put, make it easier for people to pay, and they would more likely pay, especially if they board with a family of four, but without a valid MetroCard.

3.  Sell paper bus/subway tickets for $3 ($7 for exp buses) in stores. The tickets should be good for one transfer. Key Food and 7-11 would be good places to start. It shouldn't be rocket science. Again, the goal is making it easier for people to pay their carfare.

4. One way or another, the MTA fareboxes should be able to take credit/debit cards. I know OMNY is supposed to head toward that goal.

While these ideas won't stop all fare evasion situations, it will at least decrease the instances of 'non-payment' where the passengers otherwise have a means to pay, but may not have a valid / properly funded MetroCard at hand.

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

TRANSIT

Law enforcement to crack down on NYC subway assaults, fare evasion: Cuomo

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Left: Chief Wiggums

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22 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

1. IMO, they should get rid of the SBS articulated buses and the pay-before-you-board (honor system?) concept. Let's go back to more drivers driving more buses. It worked well enough on the Q44 for many years. We don't need constant fussing with road and sidewalk construction to implement the SBS system. Is it really a wise idea to narrow roads near a hospital in the name of increasing bus speed (I'm thinking the SBS lanes near NYPQ at Main St and Booth Memorial Ave in Flushing)? Also, this isn't Europe. Let's keep things simple with a farebox in the front, next to the driver.

I am totally against getting rid of SBS articulated buses and all door boarding since as a daily rider of the B46 SBS, I can tell you that the route has an extremely high ridership from 6:00 AM to 12:00 Midnight every day, especially between Church Avenue and Fulton Street during the rush. Using the one-door-at-a-time method, loading in a trainload of passengers at Eastern Pkwy on a New Flyer XD40 or Orion VII Hybrid bus (both of which have two doors) is going to take 5 minutes or more, as it is with the local variant now. With all door boarding and SBS ticket kiosks, buses can leave in one or one and a half minutes, as it is with the subway. Are you proposing slowing down riders on the Bx12, M15, B46, and B82 routes all for the purpose of reducing fare evasion, because all this would do is further decrease ridership and/or increases fare evasion due to frustrations about slow bus and train service?

Rather than needlessly slow riders down by eliminating all-door boarding, I would propose putting in more fare inspector teams along the most busier stops. For example, on the B46 SBS,  additional fare inspection teams can be placed at the following locations:

Fulton Street

Eastern Pkwy

Church Avenue

Avenue H 

Kings Plaza

This could possibly reduce some of the fare evasion that is seen on the routes. Furthermore, as the B46 SBS is planning to run 3-door New Flyer XD60 articulated buses by 2019 and 2020 (which should’ve been done long ago), enforcement can be sped up at these stops due to an additional door for another team of two to be at.

The Q44 also has high ridership as well, just like the B46. Because of this high ridership, the one-door boarding system no longer worked, especially in Flushing and Jamaica. This is why they had that route switch to all door boarding and SBS, which truth to be told, actually works. To say that it worked for many years is just false, especially since the Q44 got some NovaBus LFS buses in 2013 to facilitate high ridership (the fleet was eventually changed over to New Flyer XD60s, the same buses used on the Q10)

Long story short, whatever system they use for their buses in London and other cities with all-door boarding and modern fare payment should be bought here to NYC. It can work.

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@JeremiahC99  - I beg to differ, a bit. I agree with the higher passenger volumes, but I don't think it is ideal to have 60 foot vehicles traversing narrow streets. I'm also against the disruption of traffic that is generated by non-stop construction related to the SBS bus lanes (the SBS construction by NYPQ Hosp comes to mind). As far as handling the volume, why not have more buses with more drivers? Do we really need to pay for an EAGLE team to enforce fare payment (we need to pay their salaries - is there a break even point on non-pmt of fares vs enforcing fare pmt with the EAGLEs)? For many years, we had bus drivers and fareboxes, and everything worked well enough.

As for the US vs Europe in regards to multi-door boarding, the Euro services are heavily subsidized, and for whatever reason, people in Europe seem to be more compliant (I've lived in Central Europe for a few months).

I think the only real way to reduce non-pmt of fares is to make it easier for people to pay the fares (ie-accepting bills and credit/debit cards).

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One more point - If the MTA / NYS is going to look to pay personal, I'd rather they pay bus drivers, bus mechanics, and bus builders rather than an enforcement team which not doing any of the above. Bus drivers keep buses in motion; the EAGLEs do not.

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39 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

@JeremiahC99  - I beg to differ, a bit. I agree with the higher passenger volumes, but I don't think it is ideal to have 60 foot vehicles traversing narrow streets. I'm also against the disruption of traffic that is generated by non-stop construction related to the SBS bus lanes (the SBS construction by NYPQ Hosp comes to mind). As far as handling the volume, why not have more buses with more drivers? Do we really need to pay for an EAGLE team to enforce fare payment (we need to pay their salaries - is there a break even point on non-pmt of fares vs enforcing fare pmt with the EAGLEs)? For many years, we had bus drivers and fareboxes, and everything worked well enough.

As for the US vs Europe in regards to multi-door boarding, the Euro services are heavily subsidized, and for whatever reason, people in Europe seem to be more compliant (I've lived in Central Europe for a few months).

I think the only real way to reduce non-pmt of fares is to make it easier for people to pay the fares (ie-accepting bills and credit/debit cards).

Simply having more 40' buses on busy routes would just jam things up even more. With the Bx12, Bx41, M60, and soon, the B46, high ridership and crowding has gone to a point that having more 40' buses roaming already jammed streets is just not enough, and running 60' buses would be better at increasing capacity, especially on the M60. All four routes have been converted to Select Bus Service, with pre-payment and all door boarding speeding buses and attracting customers. More riders=more revenue, which pays the EAGLE Teams. The drivers and farebox system did not work well with high ridership routes.

Also, SBS routes have a lower fare evasion rate compared to local routes. On SBS routes, the fare evasion rate is 2.5%, whereas the local routes is almost 25%. The reason for the big difference is because of the presence of pay-before-you-board, and all door boarding, which has attracted riders to the bus system due to faster service. (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-bus-riders-fare-evasion-data-20190325-jou3airf35f2zivt6uvv4auq64-story.html). One the B41 route, one of the local routes with the 24% fare evasion, passengers board via the traditional method (front door only). Despite this, what I have personally noticed is that when the bus pulls in at Nostrand Junction, when the back door opens up, some passengers walk up to the back door waiting for someone to exit. Once that person exits, the waiting folks then enter through to the back door and not pay. Is it any wonder why routes with the traditional boarding method have higher fare evasion than the SBS routes? Do note that the B41 travels through areas with a similar demographic and population as some of the Bronx SBS routes, such as the Bx6, Bx12, and Bx41.

If we want to bring down that 25% fare evasion rate on these local buses, then the best way to do it is with all-door boarding and an honor system, like with the SBS routes. This should ideally be done in conjunction with OMNY. By introducing all door boarding with local routes, with readers set up at all doors, then more people would pay the fare, buses would speed up, and more fare evasion would go down from 25% to the same level as the SBS fare evasion rate. I would also complement this by introducing more fairer fare options, such as replacing the unfair unlimited weekly and monthly pass with something called fare capping, which is what London has. Fare capping is a system that guarantees that no passenger would pay more than the lowest authorized fare for a given time. It combines the pay-per-ride and unlimited ride all into one option. This video would exlain it all: 

In addition, new service improvements would come along to make the $2.75 fare more worthy. For example, I would suggest high capacity articulated buses running on certain   routes, replacing cramped 40' buses that could be used elsewhere. Example routes could include the B38 and B41 routes in Brooklyn. In addition, some routes that do not warrant articulated buses could get a frequency boost, like what was done with the B17 and B65 routes, which did not warrant artics, but did qualify for better service. Better service from artics, all door boarding=more paying riders=less fare evasion. The increased revenue from less fare evasion and more riders would then go to paying the eagle team, who will be doing the inspections, and adding even more service. All door boarding is a win-win-win from the MTA side and from the passengers side. 

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On 6/17/2019 at 3:24 PM, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

1. IMO, they should get rid of the SBS articulated buses and the pay-before-you-board (honor system?) concept. Let's go back to more drivers driving more buses. It worked well enough on the Q44 for many years. We don't need constant fussing with road and sidewalk construction to implement the SBS system. Is it really a wise idea to narrow roads near a hospital in the name of increasing bus speed (I'm thinking the SBS lanes near NYPQ at Main St and Booth Memorial Ave in Flushing)? Also, this isn't Europe. Let's keep things simple with a farebox in the front, next to the driver.

Tap to pay will eliminate this problem in a handful of years, and even on local buses there are people who just board on the back anyway and don't pay. I ride the B12 all the time and I often see people simply walking by the driver or just getting on in the back. Granted that's just my experience on one line. 

 

Having more cops in stations is just senseless security theater. Sure it may be a good optics thing and draw people back to the subway, and if it does do that good, but it is important to realize that this is just for show. I doubt farebeating will go down as past data has shown that police are ineffective at combating it.

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11 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

Tap to pay will eliminate this problem in a handful of years, and even on local buses there are people who just board on the back anyway and don't pay. I ride the B12 all the time and I often see people simply walking by the driver or just getting on in the back. Granted that's just my experience on one line. 

 

Having more cops in stations is just senseless security theater. Sure it may be a good optics thing and draw people back to the subway, and if it does do that good, but it is important to realize that this is just for show. I doubt farebeating will go down as past data has shown that police are ineffective at combating it.

Ideally, all door boarding should drive down fare evasion as well. With SBS routes, which also have this feature (I also live by two SBS routes, the B46 SBS on Utica Avenue, and B82 SBS travelling across town via Flatlands Avenue and Kings Hwy. In fact, my profile picture here is a B46 SBS bus at Utica Avenue and Avenue K), fare evasion rates drop to 2.5% compared to local routes, which have a whopping 24%. By implementing all door boarding in conjunction with OMNY on all the non-SBS lines, then fare evasion will drop dramatically.

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On 6/17/2019 at 3:24 PM, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

1. IMO, they should get rid of the SBS articulated buses and the pay-before-you-board (honor system?) concept. Let's go back to more drivers driving more buses. It worked well enough on the Q44 for many years.

The Bx12 SBS alone would need a fleet of almost 60 buses and a 90 second headway during rush hour just to make that work, which would take up half the depot that maintains it's buses.

Where are all the displaced buses going to go then?

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@paulrivera - As I see people like their SBS, I guess they're here to stay. What I do NOT like is when the MTA / DOT narrows the roadways and / or sidewalks to create the SBS bus stops. This is overkill. A popular example of this is on 34th St for the M34. The City should nit be taking away valuable curb spare or sidewalk space.

Keep in mind, bus service in NYC existed long before the 60 ft buses arrived in NYC. Isn't that really a ploy to have less bus drivers?

While I can't speak about the Bx12 as I've only been on Pelham Pkwy occasionally - headways of 2 min in rush hour should work with a normal size bus (40-45 ft).

As for the Q44, the standard 40-45 ft buses worked fine for many years. It's the re-tooling of the streets for 'traffic-calming' purposes that cause the buses to run unreliably.

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1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

@paulrivera - As I see people like their SBS, I guess they're here to stay. What I do NOT like is when the MTA / DOT narrows the roadways and / or sidewalks to create the SBS bus stops. This is overkill. A popular example of this is on 34th St for the M34. The City should nit be taking away valuable curb spare or sidewalk space.

Keep in mind, bus service in NYC existed long before the 60 ft buses arrived in NYC. Isn't that really a ploy to have less bus drivers?

While I can't speak about the Bx12 as I've only been on Pelham Pkwy occasionally - headways of 2 min in rush hour should work with a normal size bus (40-45 ft).

As for the Q44, the standard 40-45 ft buses worked fine for many years. It's the re-tooling of the streets for 'traffic-calming' purposes that cause the buses to run unreliably.

When the DOT creates bus lanes, sidewalk space is never widened. Bus lanes are either curbside or offset lanes. 14th Street will feature a wholesale closure of the street from 3rd Avenue to 9th Avenue, with buses and trucks the only vehicles allowed to traverse that stretch of 14th Street. That’s right, 14th Street will become a busway, just like King Street In Toronto. However, sidewalk space is actually created in some cases, such as 161st street, when they created median bus lanes for the Bx6 SBS and local line along with median bus stops.

60 feet articulated buses have a big benefit on both sides of the table. Passengers experience less crowded trips, while the MTA can run less buses and hire less drivers, putting in saved money for better service and amenities. It works in other parts of the nation, so it can work in NYC.

The Bx12 is the second busiest bus line in the entire city, so no damn way that we can carry nearly 15 million riders on only 40’ buses. That would cause many riders to be unable to bird the bus since it would be too crowded, just like the B46 SBS at certain times.

And for the Q44, the route running with 40’ buses was fine, until ridership started to increase dramatically. This is a bus line that runs directly between Queens and The Bronx, two boroughs that have no subway line directly connecting them. Ridership is high because other than the Q50, there is no other option to directly connect Queens and the Bronx. Therefore, due to exploding ridership, just adding more 40’ buses isn’t going to work anymore, so they had articulated buses run the route.

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Mods: Is there a possibility to move this topic to the bus side of the forum. All of the responses I’m reading so far are bus related rather than subway related. 

As for the subway aspect of things: There needs to be more emphasis on creating more Transit Division precincts around the subway system. The current ones we have are too spread out and far. Maybe possible creation of some new precincts could help drive down the invasion. (Easier said than done) However, that could be one solution. 

Hopefully, the new designs that are introduced could drive down invasion. 

Dont want to sound biased. However, I can’t stand someone who buys 300.00 Kayne x Adidas sneakers or Jordans  but can’t pay the subway, bus fare of $2.75. That’s also like not paying your car note on time. If your livelihood depends on a bus or a subway to get you to work and you don’t have the fare than your priorities are not straight.  

 

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55 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

So why they don't put artic buses on SBS B46?

What does this have to do with farebeating #1, and #2 the B46 is scheduled to receive artics in the near future.

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Posted (edited)

I was referring to handle overcrowding which was discussed on this thread about one of the busiest buses and B46 SBS currently only uses 40 ft models, meanwhile B44 SBS uses artics from the same Depot.

19 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What does this have to do with farebeating #1, and #2 the B46 is scheduled to receive artics in the near future.

 

Edited by bwwnyc123

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This is crazy... This article was about fare beating and every other comment is about SBS!! Thread should be locked if we aren't going to discuss the fare beating situation.

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is crazy... This article was about fare beating and every other comment is about SBS!! Thread should be locked if we aren't going to discuss the fare beating situation.

I mean, it's not entirely unrelated...

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is crazy... This article was about fare beating and every other comment is about SBS!! Thread should be locked if we aren't going to discuss the fare beating situation.

Aren’t we, though?

I mean, there’s plenty of fare evasion taking place on the buses too, and we’ve got drivers being attacked merely for asking people to pay their fare. 

Apologies to @JeremiahC99 for going through your post to bold the selected points.

On 6/18/2019 at 3:51 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Simply having more 40' buses on busy routes would just jam things up even more. With the Bx12, Bx41, M60, and soon, the B46, high ridership and crowding has gone to a point that having more 40' buses roaming already jammed streets is just not enough, and running 60' buses would be better at increasing capacity, especially on the M60. All four routes have been converted to Select Bus Service, with pre-payment and all door boarding speeding buses and attracting customers. More riders=more revenue, which pays the EAGLE Teams. The drivers and farebox system did not work well with high ridership routes.

Also, SBS routes have a lower fare evasion rate compared to local routes. On SBS routes, the fare evasion rate is 2.5%, whereas the local routes is almost 25%. The reason for the big difference is because of the presence of pay-before-you-board, and all door boarding, which has attracted riders to the bus system due to faster service. (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-bus-riders-fare-evasion-data-20190325-jou3airf35f2zivt6uvv4auq64-story.html). On the B41 route, one of the local routes with the 24% fare evasion, passengers board via the traditional method (front door only). Despite this, what I have personally noticed is that when the bus pulls in at Nostrand Junction, when the back door opens up, some passengers walk up to the back door waiting for someone to exit. Once that person exits, the waiting folks then enter through to the back door and not pay. Is it any wonder why routes with the traditional boarding method have higher fare evasion than the SBS routes? Do note that the B41 travels through areas with a similar demographic and population as some of the Bronx SBS routes, such as the Bx6, Bx12, and Bx41.

If we want to bring down that 25% fare evasion rate on these local buses, then the best way to do it is with all-door boarding and an honor system, like with the SBS routes. This should ideally be done in conjunction with OMNY. By introducing all door boarding with local routes, with readers set up at all doors, then more people would pay the fare, buses would speed up, and more fare evasion would go down from 25% to the same level as the SBS fare evasion rate. I would also complement this by introducing more fairer fare options, such as replacing the unfair unlimited weekly and monthly pass with something called fare capping, which is what London has. Fare capping is a system that guarantees that no passenger would pay more than the lowest authorized fare for a given time. It combines the pay-per-ride and unlimited ride all into one option. This video would exlain it all: 

...

In addition, new service improvements would come along to make the $2.75 fare more worthy. For example, I would suggest high capacity articulated buses running on certain   routes, replacing cramped 40' buses that could be used elsewhere. Example routes could include the B38 and B41 routes in Brooklyn. In addition, some routes that do not warrant articulated buses could get a frequency boost, like what was done with the B17 and B65 routes, which did not warrant artics, but did qualify for better service. Better service from artics, all door boarding=more paying riders=less fare evasion. The increased revenue from less fare evasion and more riders would then go to paying the eagle team, who will be doing the inspections, and adding even more service. All door boarding is a win-win-win from the MTA side and from the passengers side. 

Not to mention increasing capacity for bus riders and reducing jammed streets by not having to run more 40-foot buses? That ought to make taking transit more attractive too, no?

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 8:21 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Aren’t we, though?

I mean, there’s plenty of fare evasion taking place on the buses too, and we’ve got drivers being attacked merely for asking people to pay their fare. 

Apologies to @JeremiahC99 for going through your post to bold the selected points.

Not to mention increasing capacity for bus riders and reducing jammed streets by not having to run more 40-foot buses? That ought to make taking transit more attractive too, no?

Very true on that.

Also, for everyone here, I did create a topic on the bus thread specifically for MTA Bus Fare Evasion. Link is here if you want to continue the conversation on fare evasion on buses:

Anyway, on subway side of things, I don't know if it is just me, but for some reason, I feel like the ESI stations do encourage fare beating due to the new designs of the barrier (half-height see through barriers instead of the classic full height prison bar-like design. If the MTA knew of the subway fare evasion problem for a long time, then why would they come up with what I believe is something that would only increase fare beating, with the emergency door exit easily accessed from the unpaid area by reaching over the barrier? Would the 500 officers patrolling the system for fare evasion be assigned to the ESI stations to stop this behavior.

Also, with OMNY coming in, I do recommend that there should be some SBS-style fare inspection where an employee would roam around a certain area of the subway platform or train and check if everyone paid their fare. Its simple. For example, one day, there would be a group of fare inspectors on the platform at the Atlantic-Barclays subway station's part time entrance in front of the Barclays Center. Atlantic-Barclays as a whole is one of the busiest stations in the system, along with Times Square, stops along 34th Street, and others. Anyway, with SBS style fare inspection, there would be an inspector standing at the area where the passageways to each line split off. For those who use that entrance a lot or are familiar with that station, you know what I'm talking about. At this location, the inspector, who would carry a special device to check for paid fares, could check each entering person to see if they paid their fare by tapping the device. If it says yes, they are free to proceed. If it says no, then they would be issued a $100 to $115 fine. This is done in systems like in San Francisco, with the Muni Clipper card. Alternatively, they could do what Toronto has and have inspectors ride with those same devices and check the devices on board the trains, and pull people off the train at the next stop if they don't have fare inspection. For more information:

While both systems do work well in SF and Toronto, it can be complicated for New York's OMNY system since unlike SF and Toronto, not only will we have a tap card, but we are also accepting various additional forms of payment, such as credit/debit cards and the Apple Pay method. The physical OMNY cards would pose no problem since the infrastructure for devices to read those type of cards exist, but with credit/debit and Apple Pay, it can be a bit complicated, as Clipper does not allow for credit/debit cards to directly pay the fare. Maybe one day down the road we will have this technology. However, I do feel like this and the 500 officers patrolling the system plan are both great ideas that would work well. 

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35 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Also, with OMNY coming in, I do recommend that there should be some SBS-style fare inspection where an employee would roam around a certain area of the subway platform or train and check if everyone paid their fare.

I disagree with this point. The time to stop fare evasions within the subway system is at the point of entry. There will be too many real world issue that pop up and turn average people into 'criminals' like lost or stolen OMNY cards, stolen phones, etc. Also, who will do this patrol - more EAGLEs? We should go back to the pre-9/11 days where the police patrolled the stations and kept an eye out for fare evaders.

 

As for buses...well, I'll post that on the bus forum.....

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Posted (edited)
On 6/20/2019 at 7:38 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Dont want to sound biased. However, I can’t stand someone who buys 300.00 Kayne x Adidas sneakers or Jordans  but can’t pay the subway, bus fare of $2.75. That’s also like not paying your car note on time. If your livelihood depends on a bus or a subway to get you to work and you don’t have the fare than your priorities are not straight. 

People caught stealing goods and services should have this on their credit records. It’s definitely an indicator of poor financial judgement and people like that are likely to default on their loans.

Not praising the Chinese way of doing things, but we need some wider credit system that covers irresponsible behaviors like these. They deserve to be marginalized in society.

Edited by CenSin

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The key to preventing bus fare evasion is systems like OMNY (so it is easier to pay) and enforcement.

For subways the key is not to add more enforcement but to design turnstiles that are hard to jump. The cost will recoup itself and would be considerably cheaper than the uninterested NYPD standing around all the time.

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On 6/18/2019 at 2:11 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

I am totally against getting rid of SBS articulated buses and all door boarding since as a daily rider of the B46 SBS, I can tell you that the route has an extremely high ridership from 6:00 AM to 12:00 Midnight every day, especially between Church Avenue and Fulton Street during the rush. Using the one-door-at-a-time method, loading in a trainload of passengers at Eastern Pkwy on a New Flyer XD40 or Orion VII Hybrid bus (both of which have two doors) is going to take 5 minutes or more, as it is with the local variant now. With all door boarding and SBS ticket kiosks, buses can leave in one or one and a half minutes, as it is with the subway. Are you proposing slowing down riders on the Bx12, M15, B46, and B82 routes all for the purpose of reducing fare evasion, because all this would do is further decrease ridership and/or increases fare evasion due to frustrations about slow bus and train service?

Rather than needlessly slow riders down by eliminating all-door boarding, I would propose putting in more fare inspector teams along the most busier stops. For example, on the B46 SBS,  additional fare inspection teams can be placed at the following locations:

Fulton Street

Eastern Pkwy

Church Avenue

Avenue H 

Kings Plaza

This could possibly reduce some of the fare evasion that is seen on the routes. Furthermore, as the B46 SBS is planning to run 3-door New Flyer XD60 articulated buses by 2019 and 2020 (which should’ve been done long ago), enforcement can be sped up at these stops due to an additional door for another team of two to be at.

The Q44 also has high ridership as well, just like the B46. Because of this high ridership, the one-door boarding system no longer worked, especially in Flushing and Jamaica. This is why they had that route switch to all door boarding and SBS, which truth to be told, actually works. To say that it worked for many years is just false, especially since the Q44 got some NovaBus LFS buses in 2013 to facilitate high ridership (the fleet was eventually changed over to New Flyer XD60s, the same buses used on the Q10)

Long story short, whatever system they use for their buses in London and other cities with all-door boarding and modern fare payment should be bought here to NYC. It can work.

And it has. And it's been beautiful for every corridor blessed with SBS.

We shouldn't take away conveniences for riders that pay for and deserve them. In fact, we should be expanding on the SBS model because it is the very example of hard work that the MTA is doing with NYC DOT, despite the lack of speed in doing so.

Many rider advocacy groups egg this behavior on, and think that fare evasion is justified because attempts to rein it in are a war on poverty. Bullshit. $228 million is three times the size of upstate transit budgets, and that's no amount to sneeze at. I see it happen often. On July 9th, a Medium story about me will publish four years to the date I was dragged off a bus for calling fare evasion out. It needs to stop, and people need to be arrested. 

When you give them an inch, they take a mile. And that mile has resulted in the senseless assaults in transit personnel. Instead of punishing good subway riders, let's implement full body turnstiles at all problem stations, re-alarm the emergency doors, put rudimentary railing on certain subway platforms (with openings only for the doors, it doesn't need to be AirTrain fancy), and treat disabled riders with the utmost respect.

Rider advocacy groups are anything but. They're just a bunch of contrived breakfast clubs of gentrified snobs. Like our current mayor. Ironically(from a historical context), they're the exact reason the outer boroughs are so underserved. 

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2 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

For subways the key is not to add more enforcement but to design turnstiles that are hard to jump. The cost will recoup itself and would be considerably cheaper than the uninterested NYPD standing around all the time.

Like the 7 inch paddle gates I suggested in the ESI topic?

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