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Via Garibaldi 8

DOT Proposes Bus Lanes for Bx7, Bx9 and Bx20 Buses, Infuriating Some

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Bus lane proposal gets cool reception

Posted June 16, 2019

20190612-102705-BusLane-6.jpg

A Bx9 travels south along Broadway, part of a corridor that could get significantly more crowded if the city’s transportation department installs bus lanes between West 225th and West 230th streets.

JULIUS CONSTANTINE MOTAL

By JOSEPH KONIG & HEATHER SMITH

 

First it was bicycle lanes sandwiching Broadway along Van Cortlandt Park. Now, if the city’s transportation department gets its way, it could be bus lanes just a mile or so south in Marble Hill.

DOT officials are floating a proposal to add daytime bus lane restrictions between West 225th and West 230th streets, vexing Community Board 8’s executive committee, still weary from the bike lane debacle of a year ago.

Dan Padernacht, chair of the CB8’s traffic and transportation committee, received a call from DOT officials last month requesting time to present the plan during his June committee meeting.

“DOT wants to come in two weeks,” Padernacht said. “I don’t think we should put them on the agenda because I don’t think we can handle that much notice in getting the word out.”

The transportation department wants to limit a northbound and southbound lane on Broadway to buses only from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Padernacht said. Doing so could eliminate parking and snarl traffic heading over the Broadway Bridge to and from Manhattan. DOT wants to meet with CB8’s traffic and transportation committee as soon as possible, Padernacht added, to ensure the change gets done before the end of the year.

“That’s insane,” CB8 chair Rosemary Ginty said.

Adding bus lanes could create tremendous implications — and unintended consequences — that could reach far beyond the immediate area.

“It drives me crazy with DOT,” Ginty said. “It drives me crazy that when you say, ‘Why are you doing it? Give me the justification,’ you don’t get an answer.”

CB8 member David Gellman wondered aloud if the transportation department’s plan was to address congestion on and just south of Broadway Bridge.

“Because that is always a mess,” he said. “That may be what they’re trying to address, but they’re not telling us that.”

“I think this might make that worse,” Padernacht said. “I think this is their bigger issue of getting people out of cars, restricting traffic, getting people on mass transit.”

“This might mess up our only access to the closest hospital, too,” added Lisa Daub, CB8’s secretary. “So it’s a serious issue.”

Bus lanes are a common remedy for lagging and unreliable bus service. A 2018 study by the city comptroller’s office found that despite efficiency upgrades like bus lanes, problems persisted in select bus service routes like the Bx12. Where bus lanes existed, they weren’t designed to “repel general traffic and are too often under-enforced,” according to the study.

As a result, unauthorized vehicles often use bus lanes to pass, stand, pull into and out of parking spots, and to drop off passengers.

“Ideally, a single ticket (or the fear of receiving one) will make drivers more conscientious and alert, preventing any future infractions,” the study stated.

But almost 12,000 unique vehicles received five or more tickets for bus lane violations in the 18 months before the study was published.

“In my personal opinion from what I’ve seen outside of the district, I think adding bus lanes makes traffic worse,” Padernacht later told The Riverdale Press. “I don’t necessarily know that the savings in time is worth the congestion of traffic and delay to any response times that might occur for emergency services.”

Board members were perturbed by how fast transportation officials had hoped to push a presentation through, Padernacht said. Two weeks was not enough time to explain the issue’s importance to all members of the community, and the traffic and transportation chair would rather ask DOT to make its presentation in the fall instead, after CB8’s summer recess.

DOT officials did not return requests for comment.

Because transportation officials gave few details in their initial conversation about the plan, it’s unclear where each lane would be, or if it means losing parking spots.

“We don’t have any detailed drawings,” Padernacht said. “We have no renderings or presentations. I only have those bare-bones concepts.”

The 1 train line runs parallel to Broadway’s southbound lanes. Partitions of its elevated track separate the outermost southbound lane, which makes placing bus lanes tricky.

“On that side you’re talking about one bus lane and one travel lane because nobody travels on the inside (lane) because it’s not safe to drive through there,” Padernacht said. “People use that to pull in and out of parking spots.”

Until DOT addresses big questions about potential traffic, congestion and bottlenecking resulting from installing bus lanes on that stretch of Broadway, CB8 is disinclined from backing the project, Padernacht said.

Source: https://riverdalepress.com/stories/bus-lane-proposal-gets-cool-reception,69195?fbclid=IwAR3-VUFjFJsroCk_nPvEdfUh5aFy_kXpRuiwiq5ePP3UlD9ddhbh9BgEcTM

 

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People need to realize, NYC is a public transit city. If you own a car and insist of driving around in it, you'll going to be in some traffic. I'll rather please the people that are saving the environment by being in a bus that people that want to drive alone.

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36 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Bus lane proposal gets cool reception

Posted June 16, 2019

20190612-102705-BusLane-6.jpg

A Bx9 travels south along Broadway, part of a corridor that could get significantly more crowded if the city’s transportation department installs bus lanes between West 225th and West 230th streets.

JULIUS CONSTANTINE MOTAL

By JOSEPH KONIG & HEATHER SMITH

 

First it was bicycle lanes sandwiching Broadway along Van Cortlandt Park. Now, if the city’s transportation department gets its way, it could be bus lanes just a mile or so south in Marble Hill.

DOT officials are floating a proposal to add daytime bus lane restrictions between West 225th and West 230th streets, vexing Community Board 8’s executive committee, still weary from the bike lane debacle of a year ago.

Dan Padernacht, chair of the CB8’s traffic and transportation committee, received a call from DOT officials last month requesting time to present the plan during his June committee meeting.

“DOT wants to come in two weeks,” Padernacht said. “I don’t think we should put them on the agenda because I don’t think we can handle that much notice in getting the word out.”

The transportation department wants to limit a northbound and southbound lane on Broadway to buses only from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Padernacht said. Doing so could eliminate parking and snarl traffic heading over the Broadway Bridge to and from Manhattan. DOT wants to meet with CB8’s traffic and transportation committee as soon as possible, Padernacht added, to ensure the change gets done before the end of the year.

“That’s insane,” CB8 chair Rosemary Ginty said.

Adding bus lanes could create tremendous implications — and unintended consequences — that could reach far beyond the immediate area.

“It drives me crazy with DOT,” Ginty said. “It drives me crazy that when you say, ‘Why are you doing it? Give me the justification,’ you don’t get an answer.”

CB8 member David Gellman wondered aloud if the transportation department’s plan was to address congestion on and just south of Broadway Bridge.

“Because that is always a mess,” he said. “That may be what they’re trying to address, but they’re not telling us that.”

“I think this might make that worse,” Padernacht said. “I think this is their bigger issue of getting people out of cars, restricting traffic, getting people on mass transit.”

“This might mess up our only access to the closest hospital, too,” added Lisa Daub, CB8’s secretary. “So it’s a serious issue.”

Bus lanes are a common remedy for lagging and unreliable bus service. A 2018 study by the city comptroller’s office found that despite efficiency upgrades like bus lanes, problems persisted in select bus service routes like the Bx12. Where bus lanes existed, they weren’t designed to “repel general traffic and are too often under-enforced,” according to the study.

As a result, unauthorized vehicles often use bus lanes to pass, stand, pull into and out of parking spots, and to drop off passengers.

“Ideally, a single ticket (or the fear of receiving one) will make drivers more conscientious and alert, preventing any future infractions,” the study stated.

But almost 12,000 unique vehicles received five or more tickets for bus lane violations in the 18 months before the study was published.

“In my personal opinion from what I’ve seen outside of the district, I think adding bus lanes makes traffic worse,” Padernacht later told The Riverdale Press. “I don’t necessarily know that the savings in time is worth the congestion of traffic and delay to any response times that might occur for emergency services.”

Board members were perturbed by how fast transportation officials had hoped to push a presentation through, Padernacht said. Two weeks was not enough time to explain the issue’s importance to all members of the community, and the traffic and transportation chair would rather ask DOT to make its presentation in the fall instead, after CB8’s summer recess.

DOT officials did not return requests for comment.

Because transportation officials gave few details in their initial conversation about the plan, it’s unclear where each lane would be, or if it means losing parking spots.

“We don’t have any detailed drawings,” Padernacht said. “We have no renderings or presentations. I only have those bare-bones concepts.”

The 1 train line runs parallel to Broadway’s southbound lanes. Partitions of its elevated track separate the outermost southbound lane, which makes placing bus lanes tricky.

“On that side you’re talking about one bus lane and one travel lane because nobody travels on the inside (lane) because it’s not safe to drive through there,” Padernacht said. “People use that to pull in and out of parking spots.”

Until DOT addresses big questions about potential traffic, congestion and bottlenecking resulting from installing bus lanes on that stretch of Broadway, CB8 is disinclined from backing the project, Padernacht said.

Source: https://riverdalepress.com/stories/bus-lane-proposal-gets-cool-reception,69195?fbclid=IwAR3-VUFjFJsroCk_nPvEdfUh5aFy_kXpRuiwiq5ePP3UlD9ddhbh9BgEcTM

 

OH THANK GOD!!!!

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29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

OH THANK GOD!!!!

Figured you'd have something to say. Is that BxM3 bus stop up yet at 262nd and Broadway?

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Quite frankly I never get the emergency services canard; the ambulance and police and FD can all use the bus lanes if they want.

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This corridor isn't even one of their cited 24 in the "Better Buses" plan that was hatched to bolster DuhBlahzio's 2019 speech promises. Sounds like some people over at DOT are out to "prove themselves", and taking advantage of the opportunity the MTA Bronx bus overhaul plan has provided. (Mainly the bully-pulpit.)

Notice the DOT doesn't answer any questions about how their wondrous Bus Lanes don't perform as advertised due to NO enforcement? And with this idea, has the DOT provided CB8 their own research of how the diverted traffic will not impact other surrounding streets? Of course not. (Just like anywhere else they've made these "improvements" around the city.)

But this has got to be from someone using the "Better Buses" program and the bus redesign as a springboard/justification.

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2 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

This corridor isn't even one of their cited 24 in the "Better Buses" plan that was hatched to bolster DuhBlahzio's 2019 speech promises. Sounds like some people over at DOT are out to "prove themselves", and taking advantage of the opportunity the MTA Bronx bus overhaul plan has provided. (Mainly the bully-pulpit.)

Notice the DOT doesn't answer any questions about how their wondrous Bus Lanes don't perform as advertised due to NO enforcement? And with this idea, has the DOT provided CB8 their own research of how the diverted traffic will not impact other surrounding streets? Of course not. (Just like anywhere else they've made these "improvements" around the city.)

But this has got to be from someone using the "Better Buses" program and the bus redesign as a springboard/justification.

I spoke with a few DOT reps about this briefly up in Pelham Bay the other night. I understand CB8's concerns.  First off if this is not done correctly, traffic in that area will be a nightmare. Second, they have done this with very little notice and time for discussion. It's like they came up with it at the last minute, and then BOOM, here it is.

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If the bus lanes lead to increased traffic than perhaps the drivers should try taking the bus or subway? There's also the Henry Hudson Parkway Bridge.

For the buses to improve in NYC, trips are going to have to get worse for drivers in private vehicles. There is just not enough space for both. Prioritize the buses.

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12 hours ago, Guest0821 said:

If the bus lanes lead to increased traffic than perhaps the drivers should try taking the bus or subway? There's also the Henry Hudson Parkway Bridge.

For the buses to improve in NYC, trips are going to have to get worse for drivers in private vehicles. There is just not enough space for both. Prioritize the buses.

Prioritize the buses and IMPROVE connections. That's how you get people to take public transit. Instead the (MTA) focuses on cost cutting...

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On 6/18/2019 at 2:29 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Bus lane proposal gets cool reception

Posted June 16, 2019

20190612-102705-BusLane-6.jpg

A Bx9 travels south along Broadway, part of a corridor that could get significantly more crowded if the city’s transportation department installs bus lanes between West 225th and West 230th streets.

JULIUS CONSTANTINE MOTAL

By JOSEPH KONIG & HEATHER SMITH

 

First it was bicycle lanes sandwiching Broadway along Van Cortlandt Park. Now, if the city’s transportation department gets its way, it could be bus lanes just a mile or so south in Marble Hill.

DOT officials are floating a proposal to add daytime bus lane restrictions between West 225th and West 230th streets, vexing Community Board 8’s executive committee, still weary from the bike lane debacle of a year ago.

Dan Padernacht, chair of the CB8’s traffic and transportation committee, received a call from DOT officials last month requesting time to present the plan during his June committee meeting.

“DOT wants to come in two weeks,” Padernacht said. “I don’t think we should put them on the agenda because I don’t think we can handle that much notice in getting the word out.”

The transportation department wants to limit a northbound and southbound lane on Broadway to buses only from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Padernacht said. Doing so could eliminate parking and snarl traffic heading over the Broadway Bridge to and from Manhattan. DOT wants to meet with CB8’s traffic and transportation committee as soon as possible, Padernacht added, to ensure the change gets done before the end of the year.

“That’s insane,” CB8 chair Rosemary Ginty said.

Adding bus lanes could create tremendous implications — and unintended consequences — that could reach far beyond the immediate area.

“It drives me crazy with DOT,” Ginty said. “It drives me crazy that when you say, ‘Why are you doing it? Give me the justification,’ you don’t get an answer.”

CB8 member David Gellman wondered aloud if the transportation department’s plan was to address congestion on and just south of Broadway Bridge.

“Because that is always a mess,” he said. “That may be what they’re trying to address, but they’re not telling us that.”

“I think this might make that worse,” Padernacht said. “I think this is their bigger issue of getting people out of cars, restricting traffic, getting people on mass transit.”

“This might mess up our only access to the closest hospital, too,” added Lisa Daub, CB8’s secretary. “So it’s a serious issue.”

Bus lanes are a common remedy for lagging and unreliable bus service. A 2018 study by the city comptroller’s office found that despite efficiency upgrades like bus lanes, problems persisted in select bus service routes like the Bx12. Where bus lanes existed, they weren’t designed to “repel general traffic and are too often under-enforced,” according to the study.

As a result, unauthorized vehicles often use bus lanes to pass, stand, pull into and out of parking spots, and to drop off passengers.

“Ideally, a single ticket (or the fear of receiving one) will make drivers more conscientious and alert, preventing any future infractions,” the study stated.

But almost 12,000 unique vehicles received five or more tickets for bus lane violations in the 18 months before the study was published.

“In my personal opinion from what I’ve seen outside of the district, I think adding bus lanes makes traffic worse,” Padernacht later told The Riverdale Press. “I don’t necessarily know that the savings in time is worth the congestion of traffic and delay to any response times that might occur for emergency services.”

Board members were perturbed by how fast transportation officials had hoped to push a presentation through, Padernacht said. Two weeks was not enough time to explain the issue’s importance to all members of the community, and the traffic and transportation chair would rather ask DOT to make its presentation in the fall instead, after CB8’s summer recess.

DOT officials did not return requests for comment.

Because transportation officials gave few details in their initial conversation about the plan, it’s unclear where each lane would be, or if it means losing parking spots.

“We don’t have any detailed drawings,” Padernacht said. “We have no renderings or presentations. I only have those bare-bones concepts.”

The 1 train line runs parallel to Broadway’s southbound lanes. Partitions of its elevated track separate the outermost southbound lane, which makes placing bus lanes tricky.

“On that side you’re talking about one bus lane and one travel lane because nobody travels on the inside (lane) because it’s not safe to drive through there,” Padernacht said. “People use that to pull in and out of parking spots.”

Until DOT addresses big questions about potential traffic, congestion and bottlenecking resulting from installing bus lanes on that stretch of Broadway, CB8 is disinclined from backing the project, Padernacht said.

Source: https://riverdalepress.com/stories/bus-lane-proposal-gets-cool-reception,69195?fbclid=IwAR3-VUFjFJsroCk_nPvEdfUh5aFy_kXpRuiwiq5ePP3UlD9ddhbh9BgEcTM

 

Say isn’t so...........

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19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Say what isn't so?

Their complaints about vehicular trafficking when it comes to overcrowding roads. Broadway (US-9) for example: why would they wanna change the pattern around even if buses should get their priorities on the sides. It makes it better for them to pass smoothly on Bway (US-9) to make their trips on time

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5 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

Their complaints about vehicular trafficking when it comes to overcrowding roads. Broadway (US-9) for example: why would they wanna change the pattern around even if buses should get their priorities on the sides. It makes it better for them to pass smoothly on Bway (US-9) to make their trips on time

Vehicular trafficking? lol Anyway, that traffic has to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear.

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On 8/30/2019 at 6:59 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Vehicular trafficking? lol Anyway, that traffic has to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear.

Doesn’t 231st St have access to MDX?

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I honestly don't see the need for a bus lane on that short a stretch of street. It would worsen the traffic jam coming off of the Broadway Bridge.

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2 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

I honestly don't see the need for a bus lane on that short a stretch of street. It would worsen the traffic jam coming off of the Broadway Bridge.

You're not there enough to see the congestion. Something needs to be done. I'm just not sure this goes far enough in addressing what happens with the traffic in the overall area.

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On 8/31/2019 at 6:27 PM, FLX9304 said:

Doesn’t 231st St have access to MDX?

I don't know why, but I couldn't respond to this post from my iPad, so here goes... My response was that the Major Deegan is irrelevant. There are traffic back-ups along 230th as well, so the question is where does the traffic go if they implement this? There is no question that something needs to be done to help the buses move along that corridor, but I don't see any other traffic mitigation plans in place for the overall area.

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19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't know why, but I couldn't respond to this post from my iPad, so here goes... My response was that the Major Deegan is irrelevant. There are traffic back-ups along 230th as well, so the question is where does the traffic go if they implement this? There is no question that something needs to be done to help the buses move along that corridor, but I don't see any other traffic mitigation plans in place for the overall area.

And why can't the parking spaces along the Broadway Elevated from 242nd St to 225th St be prohibited during rush hours and have the bus lanes be installed on the outer lanes. There are plenty of parking lots along Broadway.

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3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And why can't the parking spaces along the Broadway Elevated from 242nd St to 225th St be prohibited during rush hours and have the bus lanes be installed on the outer lanes. There are plenty of parking lots along Broadway.

Too much parking would be lost #1, and #2 the merchants along that corridor would complain to no end at the community board meetings about lost business. The DOT has to work with various stakeholders, which doesn't just include bus riders. It includes drivers, merchants and anyone else impacted by the changes. Ultimately these groups all pay taxes, and taking out all of the public parking would be extreme and would negatively impact a number of businesses. The parking lots are private, not public, and people pay to park there. Not only that, but they are only there for the people patronizing the businesses located in that particular parking lot.

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On 8/30/2019 at 6:59 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Vehicular trafficking? lol Anyway, that traffic has to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear.

Traffic does "just disappear." That's the whole concept of induced demand. As others have said upthread, you either have to prioritize buses or admit that you're not going to. We have a limited amount of road space in this city, and for better or for worse cars are a wildly inefficient way of using it. 

On 9/4/2019 at 10:10 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Too much parking would be lost #1, and #2 the merchants along that corridor would complain to no end at the community board meetings about lost business. The DOT has to work with various stakeholders, which doesn't just include bus riders. It includes drivers, merchants and anyone else impacted by the changes. Ultimately these groups all pay taxes, and taking out all of the public parking would be extreme and would negatively impact a number of businesses. The parking lots are private, not public, and people pay to park there. Not only that, but they are only there for the people patronizing the businesses located in that particular parking lot.

I would want to see numbers on this. Similar arguments have been made about other corridors in the city (ex: Church Ave) and have been debunked. 

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4 hours ago, RR503 said:

Traffic does "just disappear." That's the whole concept of induced demand. As others have said upthread, you either have to prioritize buses or admit that you're not going to. We have a limited amount of road space in this city, and for better or for worse cars are a wildly inefficient way of using it. 

I would want to see numbers on this. Similar arguments have been made about other corridors in the city (ex: Church Ave) and have been debunked. 

No, traffic doesn't just disappear. There are tons of cabs, delivery trucks and the like serving the businesses along that corridor... I think that's just being gullible. That area needs a comprehensive traffic mitigation plan. If you told me that the City was moving to further restrict the number of licenses for the TLC, then I'd say that would help, along with more truck loading areas. I haven't heard of anything else aside from bus only lanes. Those bus only lanes would only be for a small segment of Broadway.

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6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No, traffic doesn't just disappear. There are tons of cabs, delivery trucks and the like serving the businesses along that corridor... I think that's just being gullible. That area needs a comprehensive traffic mitigation plan. If you told me that the City was moving to further restrict the number of licenses for the TLC, then I'd say that would help, along with more truck loading areas. I haven't heard of anything else aside from bus only lanes. Those bus only lanes would only be for a small segment of Broadway.

Again, I'd want to see numbers. Delivery trucks do not respond to induced demand in the same way TLC/private cars do, but they're generally only a fraction of total traffic. I also would love to see the city do a more comprehensive (and dare I say more restrictive) plan for these corridors, but I think it's necessary to point out that pretty much all extant evidence points towards bus lanes being totally okay from a traffic management perspective.

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3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Again, I'd want to see numbers. Delivery trucks do not respond to induced demand in the same way TLC/private cars do, but they're generally only a fraction of total traffic. I also would love to see the city do a more comprehensive (and dare I say more restrictive) plan for these corridors, but I think it's necessary to point out that pretty much all extant evidence points towards bus lanes being totally okay from a traffic management perspective.

What numbers would you like to see?  The real issue, and why congestion has become such an acute problem in general across the City, is because of the explosion of for-hire vehicles and delivery service. The DOT has noted that our streets are now flooded with hundreds of thousands of for-hire vehicles. Meanwhile, they allowed the situation spiral out of control before trying to address it. Just throwing in some bus lanes is not enough.  There needs to be a more comprehensive plan in place to keep traffic flowing to the extent possible. How about looking at how traffic lights are synced and using Transit Signal Priority to keep buses moving along in that corridor? Many people use the cabs along Broadway. Where will those cars go, and how will they impact congestion overall?  Something else that I discussed with the DOT at the second meeting I had with the (MTA) down at 2 Broadway was the truck study that they had undertaken.  Unfortunately, neither rep (there were two of them there) could provide information on what that study revealed, but one of them did note that they continue to try to encourage deliveries to happen overnight to the extent possible, or outside of peak travel periods, keeping in mind costs associated with such arrangements to the merchants.  That said, even the truck loading areas have been crawling along at a snail's pace from an implementation standpoint, so all of these things should be looked at for this particular stretch.

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10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What numbers would you like to see?  The real issue, and why congestion has become such an acute problem in general across the City, is because of the explosion of for-hire vehicles and delivery service. The DOT has noted that our streets are now flooded with hundreds of thousands of for-hire vehicles. Meanwhile, they allowed the situation spiral out of control before trying to address it. Just throwing in some bus lanes is not enough.  There needs to be a more comprehensive plan in place to keep traffic flowing to the extent possible. How about looking at how traffic lights are synced and using Transit Signal Priority to keep buses moving along in that corridor? Many people use the cabs along Broadway. Where will those cars go, and how will they impact congestion overall?  Something else that I discussed with the DOT at the second meeting I had with the (MTA) down at 2 Broadway was the truck study that they had undertaken.  Unfortunately, neither rep (there were two of them there) could provide information on what that study revealed, but one of them did note that they continue to try to encourage deliveries to happen overnight to the extent possible, or outside of peak travel periods, keeping in mind costs associated with such arrangements to the merchants.  That said, even the truck loading areas have been crawling along at a snail's pace from an implementation standpoint, so all of these things should be looked at for this particular stretch.

This is the issue with our transportation policies in this city. On the one hand, people want things known to be beneficial (like loading zones, bike lanes, bus lanes) to be studied to death before they are implemented — if they ever are. But then people turn around and yell about congestion and sclerotic management policies. Of course nothing is getting done—our community engagement institutions won’t allow it. If we want to make any progress in transportation in this city—let alone stave off environmental catastrophe—we at some point have to accept that local conditions may be somewhat variable, but that best practices are best practices for a reason and we’re better off following them than not. 

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