MTA Bus Fare Evasion Getting Worse

[JeremiahC99]

From https://www.silive.com/news/2019/06/island-bus-fare-evasion-climbs-to-1-in-4-riders-mta-says-its-costing-city-millions.html:

Quote

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- A quarter of local bus riders citywide aren’t paying their fair share of fares.

From January to March, 25 percent of local MTA bus riders did not pay the fare, up from 18.4 percent over the same stretch in 2018, according to recently released MTA data.

These numbers represent a nearly 36 percent increase in bus fare evasion rate over last year, costing the MTA millions in potential generated revenue.

Subway fare evasion rate grew at a similar rate, while remaining relatively low compared to bus fare evasion.

From January to March, 3.9 percent of subway riders hopped the turnstile, up from 2.8 percent over the same stretch in 2018.

These numbers represent a 38.2 percent increase in subway fare evasion rate over last year.

MTA estimates put the agency on pace to lose approximately $144 million to bus fare evasion and $116 million to subway fare evasion in 2019, totaling $260 million in potential lost revenue.

In 2018, the MTA lost an estimated $225 million in revenue as a result of bus and subway fare evasion, with $128 million coming specifically from buses.

ADDITIONAL ENFORCEMENT

Earlier this month, Gov. Andrew Cuomo reached an agreement with the MTA to add 500 uniformed enforcement officers to New York City’s bus and subway system to combat fare evasion.

“As well as helping public safety overall, they will be reducing fare evasion and protecting MTA workers from assault. So, it achieves many of our goals and I think will make a significant difference and address issues that have been growing for a prolonged period of time,” Cuomo said.

The team of 500 new patrol personnel with include 200 redeployed MTA officers, 200 additional NYPD officers who will be assigned to transit and 100 bridge and tunnel officers who will be transferred to New York City transit.

The new patrol team will focus on 100 fare evasion “hotspots,” 100 targeted locations, 50 subway stations and 50 bus routes.

“I thought this was a long time coming and a step in the right direction. It feels like a very comprehensive program. I know it’s just the start and we’ve got a ways to go, but we discussed in this committee a few months ago the importance of taking action quickly on fare evasion and I feel like the announcement last week did so,” Sarah Feinberg, chair of the MTA bus and transit committee, said Monday.

Feinberg added that she would like to see the MTA post videos of fare evaders online to publicly shame them and deter future evasion.

“I would like to see us capturing this behavior on camera and then posting it publicly,” Feinberg said. “It is important to me because I think when people are publicly embarrassed by this sort of behavior it helps address it.”

 

[Lil 57]

IMO fare evasion should be treated the same way as shoplifting. Not paying the fare is basically stealing from the  and should be delt with accordingly. Just like shoplifting, fare evasion should go on someone's criminal record. If someone knew that if you got caught for fare evasion it'll be much harder to find a good job or even get accepted into a good school, people would be less inclined to do so.

[Uncle Floyd Fan]

Here's one way to reduce bus fare evasion:

In the 80's and 90's, the bus driver simply wouldn't move the bus until are fares were paid. If someone were to sneak into the rear of the bus, the driver would either give the offending 'patron' the option to exit the bus, or the police would be called. While I understand there are safety concerns here, perhaps the drivers could do this if they determine the offending passenger to be non-threatening (I know this is a controversial point, but this is how it was done years ago, and it is how it is done in other American cities to this day).

Here's another (which goes against the grain of most on the forum).....get rid of the SBS and the articulated bus. The moment I saw the multi-door boarding concept appear, I knew it would become an excuse for 'free rides' by some.

Here is a link which speaks about the confusion of SBS and fare evasion - https://www.thelaw.com/law/pro-bono-my-mta-select-bus-service-fare-evasion-case.474/

FWIW, I also realize the fare evasion situation on local buses has gotten worse. I witnessed it on the Q46 on a Friday evening, and on the Q27 on a Saturday evening. In both instances, the driver would've been safe to tell the passengers to pay or otherwise de-board or await the arrival of the police. Hopefully OMNY will make it easier to pay for the rides in the absence of a farecard or coins.

[JeremiahC99]

3 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

In the 80's and 90's, the bus driver simply wouldn't move the bus until are fares were paid. If someone were to sneak into the rear of the bus, the driver would either give the offending 'patron' the option to exit the bus, or the police would be called. While I understand there are safety concerns here, perhaps the drivers could do this if they determine the offending passenger to be non-threatening (I know this is a controversial point, but this is how it was done years ago, and it is how it is done in other American cities to this day).

This would be a good idea. Also, I do recommend having the driver call them out publicly over the loudspeaker.

3 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Here's another (which goes against the grain of most on the forum).....get rid of the SBS and the articulated bus. The moment I saw the multi-door boarding concept appear, I knew it would become an excuse for 'free rides' by some.

Here is a link which speaks about the confusion of SBS and fare evasion - https://www.thelaw.com/law/pro-bono-my-mta-select-bus-service-fare-evasion-case.474/

Actually, SBS, articulated buses, and multidoor boarding have DECREASED fare evasion. In fact, in this article here (link: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-bus-riders-turnstiles-fare-evasion-mta-data-20190623-hn3rzogawndvzexdp3mgyrply4-story.html) it is mentioned that SBS fare evasion rates are actually 2.6%. The reason for this is because SBS speeds up service by having riders pay off board and board at all doors. With both implemented, the passenger would think "Wow, this service is so fast. Definitely worth $2.75". In my case, as I live near both SBS and local routes that I also take on a routine basis, I would also think "They need to expand this on other routes".

In all actuality, the traditional method of boarding one at a time only promotes fare beating, especially at the busier stops. For example, on the B41 route, at Nostrand Junction, passengers here board the bus one at a time through the front door, even during rush hours. During rush hours, when the bus pulls in, about 20% of the passengers waiting would jolt to the front door, and after waiting for people to exit through the back door, they enter through the back door and not pay the fare. This happens a lot, and it is no wonder why MTA Bus fare evasion is through the roof.

What the MTA needs to do to combat fare evasion is to expand the SBS features, such as all door boarding, to the other routes, in conjunction with OMNY. Getting rid of SBS, articulated buses, and off-board fare payment is a detriment to the bus system and will only promote more fare beating due to the slower service. The Bx12, Bx41, and M15 routes are some of the super busiest routes in the city, and all three have SBS, articulated buses, and all door boarding. Getting rid of all three of those features for the three aforementioned routes, plus others would do nothing but encourage more fare beating due to service being slower. By expanding the all door boarding feature to the other local routes in conjunction with OMNY, coupled with periodic fare inspection, fare evasion on the local routes should drop to 2% due to service being much faster than before.

Plus, all-door boarding and articulated buses works elsewhere in the world, such as in Europe and even in US cities like Seattle and San Francisco, so if it works there, why not NY?

3 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

FWIW, I also realize the fare evasion situation on local buses has gotten worse. I witnessed it on the Q46 on a Friday evening, and on the Q27 on a Saturday evening. In both instances, the driver would've been safe to tell the passengers to pay or otherwise de-board or await the arrival of the police. Hopefully OMNY will make it easier to pay for the rides in the absence of a farecard or coins.

OMNY is going to make it easier to pay not only by allowing for payment with mobile devices and bank cards, but also by installing the tap infrastructure at ALL DOORS OF THE BUS. This alone would speed service tremendously by letting huge crowds at Main Street for example pay for fares at any door, speeding service. After all, if service becomes faster due to all door boarding, it's worth paying $2.75, right?

[Lennyj17]

We need Eagle Team system wide at Fare Beating hotspots... Like at PBP   just this past Saturday 5 people walked through the back doors of the Q50 at PBP headed for Co-Op... Usually drivers would discharge in the Bx5 Slot if nothing is parked there then pick up at the usual Bx23 Q50 stop, however 2 artics were parked in the Bx5 slot so we went right to the Bx23/Q50 1-2-3-4-5 stop and folks walked right through the back without a care, didn't even feel sneaky about it. Bus driver didn't even try to close the back doors, just left them open until he was ready to pull off. 

Its my belief once OMNY is fully conceptualized .... All Door Boarding will be made standard, SBS will probably die and revert back to Limited, or Limited branding will die for SBS branding. No need for both if everything is All-Door-Boarding. This will easier allow Eagle Team to check that fares have been paid, the same instrument used to pay you would tap on the Eagle Teams wand to verify. 

Most fare beaters are afraid of eagle team... Hell you wouldn't even need to do more than park a car or truck marked "Eagle Team" in sight of where most farebeating takes place, and I promise you that will be enough to scare most. 

[Jdog14]

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking eventually TA will have to find other revenue streams to decrease fares (this is probably unlikely but a man can dream). MTA kind of did this to themselves by having bus drivers still move the bus even without fares being collected.

 

Years ago the bus wouldn't move unless all the fares were paid, but now bus drivers have been pretty much rendered as b*tches who have to sit there and say nothing. 

 

The eagle team also need to change up strategy. In the world of social media word gets out that the eagle team has setup shop in one location and just allows people to board at the next stop. 

[DetSMART45]

12 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Here's one way to reduce bus fare evasion:

In the 80's and 90's, the bus driver simply wouldn't move the bus until are fares were paid. If someone were to sneak into the rear of the bus, the driver would either give the offending 'patron' the option to exit the bus, or the police would be called. While I understand there are safety concerns here, perhaps the drivers could do this if they determine the offending passenger to be non-threatening (I know this is a controversial point, but this is how it was done years ago, and it is how it is done in other American cities to this day).

Here's another (which goes against the grain of most on the forum).....get rid of the SBS and the articulated bus. The moment I saw the multi-door boarding concept appear, I knew it would become an excuse for 'free rides' by some.

Here is a link which speaks about the confusion of SBS and fare evasion - https://www.thelaw.com/law/pro-bono-my-mta-select-bus-service-fare-evasion-case.474/

FWIW, I also realize the fare evasion situation on local buses has gotten worse. I witnessed it on the Q46 on a Friday evening, and on the Q27 on a Saturday evening. In both instances, the driver would've been safe to tell the passengers to pay or otherwise de-board or await the arrival of the police. Hopefully OMNY will make it easier to pay for the rides in the absence of a farecard or coins.

Here in Detroit, you pay or are asked to step-off, on DDOT buses. SMART suburban buses, play the sob-story, operator usually lets you ride -- because the SMART operators don't want to get written-up from a complaint. (There are a few "renegades" that do the firm stance of DDOT operators, though, and could care less about complaints.)

Odd thing is, that DDOT riders would be the first to hound a rear-door farebeater caught by the operator either into paying or getting off if the operator pulled the parking brake and wasn't going to move the bus. Even though bus police calls are treated as a priority now by the Detroit Police Department, it could still be a while before a response. People know this, so you'd think a farebeater really wouldn't care -- but that's where the busload comes into play. Most DDOT riders aren't out just moseying around town, they either have to catch another bus to their job or have something of importance that they expect the bus to get them to. Delay that bus, and the riders get irate.

I'll answer your opinion of SBS/artics in the next post.

[DetSMART45]

11 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

This would be a good idea. Also, I do recommend having the driver call them out publicly over the loudspeaker.

Actually, SBS, articulated buses, and multidoor boarding have DECREASED fare evasion. In fact, in this article here (link: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-bus-riders-turnstiles-fare-evasion-mta-data-20190623-hn3rzogawndvzexdp3mgyrply4-story.html) it is mentioned that SBS fare evasion rates are actually 2.6%. The reason for this is because SBS speeds up service by having riders pay off board and board at all doors. With both implemented, the passenger would think "Wow, this service is so fast. Definitely worth $2.75". In my case, as I live near both SBS and local routes that I also take on a routine basis, I would also think "They need to expand this on other routes".

In all actuality, the traditional method of boarding one at a time only promotes fare beating, especially at the busier stops. For example, on the B41 route, at Nostrand Junction, passengers here board the bus one at a time through the front door, even during rush hours. During rush hours, when the bus pulls in, about 20% of the passengers waiting would jolt to the front door, and after waiting for people to exit through the back door, they enter through the back door and not pay the fare. This happens a lot, and it is no wonder why MTA Bus fare evasion is through the roof.

What the MTA needs to do to combat fare evasion is to expand the SBS features, such as all door boarding, to the other routes, in conjunction with OMNY. Getting rid of SBS, articulated buses, and off-board fare payment is a detriment to the bus system and will only promote more fare beating due to the slower service. The Bx12, Bx41, and M15 routes are some of the super busiest routes in the city, and all three have SBS, articulated buses, and all door boarding. Getting rid of all three of those features for the three aforementioned routes, plus others would do nothing but encourage more fare beating due to service being slower. By expanding the all door boarding feature to the other local routes in conjunction with OMNY, coupled with periodic fare inspection, fare evasion on the local routes should drop to 2% due to service being much faster than before.

Plus, all-door boarding and articulated buses works elsewhere in the world, such as in Europe and even in US cities like Seattle and San Francisco, so if it works there, why not NY?

OMNY is going to make it easier to pay not only by allowing for payment with mobile devices and bank cards, but also by installing the tap infrastructure at ALL DOORS OF THE BUS. This alone would speed service tremendously by letting huge crowds at Main Street for example pay for fares at any door, speeding service. After all, if service becomes faster due to all door boarding, it's worth paying $2.75, right?

So much to tackle *sigh*:

First off, I don't believe for a SECOND that farebeating on SBS buses is only 2.6%. Just go by some of the previous posts on here where Eagle Team shows up, people empty the bus like cockroaches scattering when the light is switched on, and in the one experience posted here, NYPD was set up on the back door so people were nabbed even though they were thinking they'd escape. If Eagle Teams were consistently on the SBS buses, different story -- but since they're not, there really is no reliable way of tabulating fare payment on SBS buses.

As to the off-board payment affecting service, only to a small extent. Most of the dwell time is due to the clunky, antiquated Metrocard itself. Besides, if the average bus speed across the city is only 8 mph, it ain't the customers getting on and paying that is the root cause (outside of the slow farebox due to Metrocard).

All-door boarding with OMNY could be good -- except you already have a culture where 25% already don't pay. In Europe, there are stiff, enforced penalties if you don't touch-in -- not the case in NYC now, and not just regarding transit. The Manhattan DA doesn't even want to go after farebeaters now, so you think with OMNY anything's gonna change? The only places OMNY will decrease farebeating is on MNR/LIRR. On buses, unless there's a strong enforcement operation in place (should be uniformed/undercover at first, then almost all undercover after), it's not going to get any better.

Your theory about front-door boarding and the B41 example arises out of the culture that's deemed farebeating as acceptable. "There's a line, the bus is already slow, I'm not gonna pay." Here's a nice example to the contrary that plays out in Downtown Detroit every weekday on three key DDOT routes, my example is from the highest-volume route, 4--Woodward prior to it returning to its current (original) routing:

8:45am end of Peak, leave south terminal, and loop through Downtown (approx. 3 stops), 6 of us on bus. Pull up to stop outside of the Rosa Parks Transit Center (Michigan Av/Cass Av near-side). Mob of people waiting, but could be also waiting for the 16--Dexter. Nope. Seems everyone wants the Woodward. After close to 4 minutes, all seats taken (by actual asses, not someone hogging a seat with their bags), plus around 10 standees. We tool over to Woodward Av, bell rings, two off, four on. Take off again, bell rings, two off. Get to first real transfer point (MackAv/MLK Blvd), four off, eight on. Three more stops, one or two off at each, but nobody on. Next Transfer point (Warren Av) with Wayne State University (my stop, finally), 12 others off with me, six waiting.

Guess what -- not ONE attempted rear-door boarding -- even where we completely loaded-up at. And, bus operator was only 2 minutes down from schedule time at Warren. And this was a Gillig 40-footer.

Just have to keep adding things relevant: Woodward service runs every 10 minutes, previous bus leaving the terminal as I was on my way to it was an XD60. My operator left on-time, just like the artic operator. We were going north, out of Downtown -- and this was at the end of Peak -- when things should be quieting down. (And I was hoping for that, and didn't expect a sardine can.)

Edited June 25, 2019 by DetSMART45

[Uncle Floyd Fan]

20 hours ago, Lennyj17 said:

Its my belief once OMNY is fully conceptualized .... All Door Boarding will be made standard, SBS will probably die and revert back to Limited, or Limited branding will die for SBS branding. No need for both if everything is All-Door-Boarding. This will easier allow Eagle Team to check that fares have been paid, the same instrument used to pay you would tap on the Eagle Teams wand to verify. 

While I'm indifferent to the branding (SBS vs Limited), I have concerns about the EAGLE's searching people's phones for proof of payment. What if someone's smartphone dies enroute under the OMNY system....would the passenger get a fine when the EAGLE's 'swoop in'? Even with the railroads, if someone's phone should die, the passenger would simply pay a cash fare to the conductor as opposed to a $100 fine. The thing is, we need to tread carefully on how we use the technology and how the MTA goes about enforcing fare payment. It is for this reason (among others I've mentioned) that I'm against the multi-door boarding / pay before you board systems. For many years, NY was unique in having a system in place where payments were made at point of entry in the subway and on board the buses. It is hard to break old habits for some.

 

11 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

First off, I don't believe for a SECOND that farebeating on SBS buses is only 2.6%.

I second that sentiment. There are many who haven't paid who simply might not have been caught, yet.

12 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

Odd thing is, that DDOT riders would be the first to hound a rear-door farebeater caught by the operator either into paying or getting off if the operator pulled the parking brake and wasn't going to move the bus.

Perhaps the mindset of New Yorkers would need to change back to one where it is shameful not to pay the fare (whatever the mode of transit).....maybe a bit of peer shaming (when deemed safe - it's a judgement call) would work, like in this classic PSA (Credit to trainluvr for posting this old PSA) - 

 

[Uncle Floyd Fan]

One more point on the topic of bus fare evasion regarding the SBS routes....If the EAGLE's should board and a passenger either doesn't have a working phone or OMNY pass (in the future), or lost their receipt, or simply didn't pay the fare, instead of a $100 fine, why not charge the passenger $5 on the spot - cash or credit. This way, we get the criminal element out of the way, and treat the (non)payment issues the way they would be treated on the LIRR or MNRR if a passenger doesn't have a ticket. 

[DetSMART45]

1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

While I'm indifferent to the branding (SBS vs Limited), I have concerns about the EAGLE's searching people's phones for proof of payment. What if someone's smartphone dies enroute under the OMNY system....would the passenger get a fine when the EAGLE's 'swoop in'? Even with the railroads, if someone's phone should die, the passenger would simply pay a cash fare to the conductor as opposed to a $100 fine. The thing is, we need to tread carefully on how we use the technology and how the MTA goes about enforcing fare payment. It is for this reason (among others I've mentioned) that I'm against the multi-door boarding / pay before you board systems. For many years, NY was unique in having a system in place where payments were made at point of entry in the subway and on board the buses. It is hard to break old habits for some.

Nahhh...treat it just like someone who's got a driver's license. Don't have it and get stopped? Automatic ticket. Busted brake light and get stopped? Automatic ticket. Except, you have to PROVE to the court you have your license/fixed your brake light in order to get out of paying fines.

Problem is, unless you have the strict law that says you MUST show picture ID (and it AIN'T that hard to get one, since even if you're "poor" and want Social Security disability/any social services "benefits" you HAVE to have one anyways -- FED rules) and farebeating gets followed up on through the NYC courts (reporting to the State system) it's not going to mean a hill of beans. Look at the "collections" from the MTA TAB currently -- they all scratch their heads and wonder why they're not getting money (that's owed to them) in their monthly Committee reports -- but NEVER point fingers at King DuhBlahhzio or anyone else (including Mario the Pious Part Deux) with their "forgiveness" programs: the true ENABLERS of the problems that the MTA deals with. Lump all the "Prosecutors" under the King's dictats, and whether it's cutting into the back door of a bus, silently or outright telling a bus operator to "Go f**k yourself", hopping a turnstile, or "sneaking in" (hilarious to think it happens in plain sight and nobody -- including MTA peeps wanting a paycheck/NYPD pocket pool players--think it's a big deal BUT IT'S NOT EVEN REALLY SNEAKING) via a gate/exit -- EVERYBODY'S GOT A VALID EXCUSE TO BYPASS FARE CONTROL. (Just like Nicole Gelinas pointed out in the Post with "exemptions" from the Congestion Pricing that could be applied to practically anyone -- so what does it matter in the end?)

You need a mighty big shovel to dig out of this hole, except that King Duhblahhzio et al will always cover what you've dug out with that much more. Until you give up. (And move away, like so many articles have documented.) Those that stay will truly pay the price, in more ways than one.

/steps off soapbox

Edited June 26, 2019 by DetSMART45

[Uncle Floyd Fan]

@DetSMART45 - We all have a soapbox. It's called the NYCTF.

I agree that the days of the free rides need to end. However, as a society, we need to strike a balance in collecting the fares vs creating criminality out of a less than perfect fare collection system (esp. with the SBS). In the case of a car having a faulty auto part, the car can be fixed and the ticket effectively voided. How does one prove a faulty phone?

After all, this post is about bus fare evasion and ways to stop it. As I proposed above, why not simply charge $5 cash or credit if one can't produce a receipt (paper or virtual). If $5 doesn't work, make it $10. The bottom line should be to collect the fare. Now, if the passenger can't produce the on-the-spot payment, then a fine from a cop or EAGLE member (or the discretion of either) should prevail.

Side note related to your 'soapbox' statement - We're having a race here in Queens to pick the next District Attorney. Within the last few days, this race has gotten national attention. Let's see how the next Queens DA handles fare evasion cases (some candidates are more liberal/progressive-minded, one other is more law-and-order minded)....stay tuned. 

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

The thing is, we need to tread carefully on how we use the technology and how the MTA goes about enforcing fare payment. It is for this reason (among others I've mentioned) that I'm against the multi-door boarding / pay before you board systems. For many years, NY was unique in having a system in place where payments were made at point of entry in the subway and on board the buses. It is hard to break old habits for some.

The technology for this should be there by the time that OMNY is fully rolled out, but still. It's no reason to not go through with all-door fare payment and boarding, a system that does work in other cities with similar densities, population, and crime rates.

13 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

First off, I don't believe for a SECOND that farebeating on SBS buses is only 2.6%. Just go by some of the previous posts on here where Eagle Team shows up, people empty the bus like cockroaches scattering when the light is switched on, and in the one experience posted here, NYPD was set up on the back door so people were nabbed even though they were thinking they'd escape. If Eagle Teams were consistently on the SBS buses, different story -- but since they're not, there really is no reliable way of tabulating fare payment on SBS buses.

1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

I second that sentiment. There are many who haven't paid who simply might not have been caught, yet.

Even if that were the case, and the people who did not pay were eventually caught, the SBS fare evasion rare would most likely jump from 2.6% to somewhere around 3.9%, not some carzy number like 25% or 75%. To claim that SBS fare evasion is worse than the local bus fare evasion rates is just Ludacris. On my local SBS route, the B46 SBS, whenever I rode the line during the AM rush to/from college (I am currently off from school until August), I have noticed that everyone uses the machines to pay their fare before boarding the bus, and it happens at every stop going northbound, and keep in mind that the route does travel through some of the dangerous areas of the borough. Last the fare inspectors came in, everyone did show a valid receipt to the fare inspectors, and nobody got pulled off the bus. Compare that to the B41 during the PM, where large crowds of people went through the back door and not pay while the small crowd that remained at the front door paid their fare, and this is a route that required payment only at the front door. Even on a recent trip on the B41, despite the one door boarding in place, one person had the audacity to walk past the driver and proceed to the back of the bus, then cause a scene when the driver called him out for not paying (the bus was held up while this was happening, angering other passengers and myself). There is a day and night difference between the two routes. 

13 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

As to the off-board payment affecting service, only to a small extent. Most of the dwell time is due to the clunky, antiquated Metrocard itself. Besides, if the average bus speed across the city is only 8 mph, it ain't the customers getting on and paying that is the root cause (outside of the slow farebox due to Metrocard).

Not to mention high crowds at certain stops. On routes such as the Bx12, M15, and B46, which are the three busiest bus routes in the city, at many stops, there are a lot of people waiting at the bus stop. On the B46 SBS for example, at Eastern Pkwy at night, there is a trainload of pone door boarding option, eople waiting to board the SB B46 SBS to take them home. Under the one door boarding option, loading that many people onto a single 40' or 60' bus would be very time consuming, even taking up to 5 minutes. With all door boarding, dwell time goes down to one minute, thus allowing for the bus to get going quickly and move faster.

14 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

Your theory about front-door boarding and the B41 example arises out of the culture that's deemed farebeating as acceptable. "There's a line, the bus is already slow, I'm not gonna pay."

From previous reports about fare evasion, it was revealed that New Yorkers, unlike Detroit residents, are more emboldened to jump fares because they feel that its not worth it to pay $2.75 for poor service (delayed trains, slow buses). That's the problem. More so on the subway side than the bus side, but still.

All in all, what is needed to combat fare evasion, alongside extra enforcement, is to make the buses better by speeding them up. Expansion of the SBS features, such as all-door boarding, bus lanes, and others, should dissuade people from evading the fare. Ideally, there should be eagle teams at the stops too by having a marked cars for them that can identify the fare inspectors. The marked cars should also be a detriment for them as well. 

43 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

As I proposed above, why not simply charge $5 cash or credit if one can't produce a receipt (paper or virtual). If $5 doesn't work, make it $10. The bottom line should be to collect the fare. Now, if the passenger can't produce the on-the-spot payment, then a fine from a cop or EAGLE member (or the discretion of either) should prevail.

This should also be a part of OMNY as well. However, if the passenger doesn't want to pay that surcharge, then they should be pulled off at the next stop.

Either way, any option to reduce fare evasion would be better than simply getting rid of SBS, articulated buses, and all door boarding. Its 2019. Its time to catch up with the rest of the normal world.

[Jdog14]

47 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

, there should be eagle teams at the stops too by having a marked cars for them that can identify the fare inspectors. The marked cars should also be a detriment for them as well. 

 

 

The only "detriment" will be boardin at that stop. People will just goto the next stop and not pay. Lets not act like social media doesn't add to this.  As a matter fact just recently I seen a post on facebook that warned SBS B46 riders that they were posted at Eastern Parkway and Utica. 

[JeremiahC99]

14 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

 

The only "detriment" will be boardin at that stop. People will just goto the next stop and not pay. Lets not act like social media doesn't add to this.  As a matter fact just recently I seen a post on facebook that warned SBS B46 riders that they were posted at Eastern Parkway and Utica. 

I’m well aware that Social Media does add to this problem. In fact, they had something like that in Toronto in March 2018, a few months after Andy Byford left Toronto for New York, where a social media group revealed locations of fare inspectors on Facebook. And as a picture is worth a thousand words:

Still, there are ways to decrease fare evasion without taking away the conveniences of SBS that riders deserve.

Edited June 26, 2019 by JeremiahC99

[NewFlyer 230]

The way I see things, the MTA knew there were tons of issues with the bus & subway systems and they allowed them to get worst. All this news press and complaints online and now the MTA is finally doing something.

I just don’t get why they can’t do what they need to do from the start. Like for example today there was an almost 50 minute gap in Q54 service heading to Jamaica about 2 hours ago at around 8:30pm. The Q54 has had reliability issues for years and nothing has been done to fix it.  
Last week, I was waiting at Kissena Blvd & Jewel Ave for a bus to Jamaica. I had just missed 2 Q25’s and a Q34 that were bunched together. The next Q25 to Jamaica was to arrive 36 minutes later according to bus time and a Q34 was scheduled to arrive 16 minutes later. On Main Street and Jewel Ave the Q44 and Q20A/B towards Jamaica each had a 20+ minute wait. This all took place at about 2pm on a Friday and at that time those routes combined on their respective streets are suppose to run frequently. However once again, the MTA does nothing to correct the reliability issues. It makes no sense that one has to wait 20+ minutes for a bus on a corridor that has multiple routes running on it. So I can definitely see the attitudes that cause farebeating. People probably say screw the MTA, and resort to using Uber’s and or farebeat.

There shouldn’t have been a need to crackdown heavy on fare evasion if they were doing that already and regularly. I see tons of people boarding select buses without paying. Where’s the eagle team though? They are mostly nowhere to be found. It’s been a while since I’ve personally seen them and I use select routes often too. I haven’t seen the eagle team since last Oct/Nov on the M60 at 125th & 2nd Ave. Before that time it probably must have been sometime in 2017 when the Q52/Q53 were just converted to Select bus routes. Then you have the people who ask the driver on Local/LTD routes and 99% of the time the drivers let them on. So of course people notice the leniency on the MTA’s part so of course they wouldn’t stress over filling up a metrocard. I would have police and or eagle team people riding buses and when they see people who board without paying, they should take them off the bus. 

 

 

 

[JeremiahC99]

2 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I would have police and or eagle team people riding buses and when they see people who board without paying, they should take them off the bus. 


Agreed. In fact, they should do this on both local, limited, Select Bus (in addition to the station Eagle Teams), and express routes. Basically every single route in the city.

[DetSMART45]

9 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The way I see things, the MTA knew there were tons of issues with the bus & subway systems and they allowed them to get worst. All this news press and complaints online and now the MTA is finally doing something.

I just don’t get why they can’t do what they need to do from the start. Like for example today there was an almost 50 minute gap in Q54 service heading to Jamaica about 2 hours ago at around 8:30pm. The Q54 has had reliability issues for years and nothing has been done to fix it.  
Last week, I was waiting at Kissena Blvd & Jewel Ave for a bus to Jamaica. I had just missed 2 Q25’s and a Q34 that were bunched together. The next Q25 to Jamaica was to arrive 36 minutes later according to bus time and a Q34 was scheduled to arrive 16 minutes later. On Main Street and Jewel Ave the Q44 and Q20A/B towards Jamaica each had a 20+ minute wait. This all took place at about 2pm on a Friday and at that time those routes combined on their respective streets are suppose to run frequently. However once again, the MTA does nothing to correct the reliability issues. It makes no sense that one has to wait 20+ minutes for a bus on a corridor that has multiple routes running on it. So I can definitely see the attitudes that cause farebeating. People probably say screw the MTA, and resort to using Uber’s and or farebeat.

There shouldn’t have been a need to crackdown heavy on fare evasion if they were doing that already and regularly. I see tons of people boarding select buses without paying. Where’s the eagle team though? They are mostly nowhere to be found. It’s been a while since I’ve personally seen them and I use select routes often too. I haven’t seen the eagle team since last Oct/Nov on the M60 at 125th & 2nd Ave. Before that time it probably must have been sometime in 2017 when the Q52/Q53 were just converted to Select bus routes. Then you have the people who ask the driver on Local/LTD routes and 99% of the time the drivers let them on. So of course people notice the leniency on the MTA’s part so of course they wouldn’t stress over filling up a metrocard. I would have police and or eagle team people riding buses and when they see people who board without paying, they should take them off the bus. 

Thanks for echoing my thoughts -- the MTA caused its current situation, and basically has done nothing to rectify the damage they've caused. But let's not forget to place blame with the DOT, their partner in crime. Maybe some should also go on the King's out of control Parking Placard program, taking away spaces from residents/potential payers.

I really think the bunching problems can be directly attributable to the DOT, especially in Queens. Both the MTA and DOT have known about the problem areas (MTA routes haven't changed in years along the major corridors/transfer areas), and yet for all of the "experts" on payroll at DOT, nothing can be done? And I am NOT sold on their "solution" of just slapping down bus lanes, purely because they seem to think everything's going to be fine since everyone will operate on the "honor system" and let buses only use the lanes -- so no enforcement monies are put into those plans. Plus, when ticket prices are put out, they get watered-down. IIRC the 14th Street "experiment" was supposed to have a $150 violation, but now it's $50 (which, if converted to outside-NYC dollars, is around a twenty) -- who's really going to bat an eye at that when "justifying" it to themselves at the time of deciding to flaunt the law?

The MTA is almost in an impossible situation all around.

[B35 via Church]

Get back to me when the charade of giving a shit about curbing farebeating is over & their persistent perennial laissez-faire attitude of farebeating progresses to that of further promoting more (and at higher rates of) fare increases.....

I'm not buying this concern for a second, and I'm of the belief that they're not being honest with these stats, either......

Noooowwwww all of a sudden, farebeating is this problem that has to be immediately addressed... All jokes aside, nobody's that f***ing absent-minded....

 

[NewFlyer 230]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Get back to me when the charade of giving a shit about curbing farebeating is over & their persistent perennial laissez-faire attitude of farebeating progresses to that of further promoting more (and at higher rates of) fare increases.....

I'm not buying this concern for a second, and I'm of the belief that they're not being honest with these stats, either......

Noooowwwww all of a sudden, farebeating is this problem that has to be immediately addressed... All jokes aside, nobody's that f***ing absent-minded....

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if this whole movement to crackdown on farebeating last no longer than 6 months. Then police and eagle team will make less of an appearance until everything returns back to the way it is now. 

[Lennyj17]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:51 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I just don’t get why they can’t do what they need to do from the start. Like for example today there was an almost 50 minute gap in Q54 service heading to Jamaica about 2 hours ago at around 8:30pm. The Q54 has had reliability issues for years and nothing has been done to fix it.  
Last week, I was waiting at Kissena Blvd & Jewel Ave for a bus to Jamaica. I had just missed 2 Q25’s and a Q34 that were bunched together. The next Q25 to Jamaica was to arrive 36 minutes later according to bus time and a Q34 was scheduled to arrive 16 minutes later. On Main Street and Jewel Ave the Q44 and Q20A/B towards Jamaica each had a 20+ minute wait. This all took place at about 2pm on a Friday and at that time those routes combined on their respective streets are suppose to run frequently. However once again, the MTA does nothing to correct the reliability issues. It makes no sense that one has to wait 20+ minutes for a bus on a corridor that has multiple routes running on it. So I can definitely see the attitudes that cause farebeating. People probably say screw the MTA, and resort to using Uber’s and or farebeat.

OT: I agree the 5/Mad Av routes in the city are notoriously bad too. Just today this afternoon (2pm) .... just missed an M1 as I was crossing 5 Av from the east... 35 min gap... Not a single MTA Local bus down 5 Av... .Endless SIM, BxM and BMs.... 6 local buses (M1/2/3/4/5/55) run down 5 Av and not sight of one in 35 mins. After 35 mins M1/2/5 and 55 all right in a bunch. M3 passes my M1 around 14th Street so it wasn't too far behind at 42nd.  

Edited June 27, 2019 by Lennyj17