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Union Tpke

Artics to the Q12, B38, Bx35 and other schedule changes

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1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Well don't light rail vehicles have a bigger capacity than buses? If the Q12 currently operates every 4 minutes, and the light rail will operate at the same frequency, then capacity on the corridor would be increased by 300% (for the most part)

And for the light rail, I was thinking of not having the light rail line run on Sanford Avenue. Instead, this light rail would operate along Northern Blvd all the way to the Main Street station, while the Q13 and Q28 would be rerouted from Northern Blvd to serve the narrow Sanford Avenue via 162nd Street. In addition, all routes would converge at a new bus terminal built at the Main Street station, which would reduce curb conflicts in such a congested area (to please business owners, some of then would also relocate to the new terminal as well). This bus terminal can be built with to without a light rail route on Northern Blvd. Either way, a Flushing Bus Terminal would help reduce congestion on the streets since the sidewalk and street space will be less congested with transferring passengers.

However, I do feel that any light rail to Queens (or anywhere in NYC) is just a pipe dream, given the circumstances of traffic in Flushing. If we can reduce traffic in Flushing with a new bus terminal, then I feel that we can have a light rail go from Flushing to the outer areas.

It wouldn't be possible to construct a light-rail line on Northern Boulevard without, well, getting rid of Northern Boulevard (Extending the (7) isn't happening either).The closest alternative to that would be the Port Washington Branch of the LIRR, but most of it's stations are inconveniently located for Q12 passengers to rely on the line. While there's theoretically less capacity running artics on the Q12 than say, a light-rail line along Northern, the latter isn't an option.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

Not to mention that Grand Avenue is getting 2012-13 XD60s for their operation on the B38. However, I do somewhat expect to see a few of them go to Casey Stengel Depot for the Q12 service with the rest to East NY for B15 service next year when they have artic operations ready.

And as for the Q12, at this porin, do you all think that the line should just be converted to light rail operations? Could increase capacity even more and, bring some transit service to the underserved borough.

On the Q12, I'd actually extend it right down to where the last stop is at the front door to Stengel, with a relay inside the depot.

As for light rail, the problem is that (east of the Grand Central), Northern Boulevard is one of the last "fast streets" in NYC (speed limit of 30, 40 through Alley Pond)...you can't reasonably have light rail there.

Edited by aemoreira81

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

I’m surprise nobody asked for some routes to use articulated buses during the Bronx redesign. That could’ve been really useful.

And considering that, I wonder how the articulated buses will handle the Bx35 lines new route on West Farms Road, Jennings Street, and Bryant Avenue, not to mention the sheer amount of riders switching from the Bx11 or the Bx35? Did they take this into account?

And fr the Bx28, you are right that the route should be considered first. However, given that the Bx38 will be eliminated, the Bx30 will be rerouted off Gun Hill Road, the planned service frequency increase to every 8 minutes on the Bx28 should be more than enough for Gun Hill Road riders (current service on Gun Hill Road is every 10 minutes with both lines). That is until Co-op City residents shuts part of it down since they don’t like it.

Well of course Bronx would get more articulated routes and Bx35 so far is getting them not Bx11, plus they could interline.

Bx28 need artics because it's more demanding then Bx30 and it would be the only route on Gun Hill Rd and until it reaches Co-op City. Also to help the Subway riders.

Edited by bwwnyc123

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3 minutes ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Well of course Bronx would get more articulated routes and Bx35 so far is getting them not Bx11, plus they could interline.

I was talking about people asking for additional routes going Articulated aside from the Bx35 during the open houses. I looked right through the draft plan, and not one plan said “let’s convert this route to Articulated operations”. Not to mention that they never operated a route on Bryant Avenue, so I wonder how they’ll handle Jennings Street, West Farms Road, sand Bryant Avenue.

2 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Does anyone know the expect attolments for these buses that are going artic? 

Not at the moment, but the B38 is definitely going to operate with 2012-13 XD60s coming from the Bronx (4710, 4711, 4713, 4718, and 4754 are all over at Grand Avenue). I could also see some of those units also go to Casey Stengel for the Q12. The Bx35 will also be pooled with the other West Farms artics.

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

On the Q12, I'd actually extend it right down to where the last stop is at the front door to Stengel, with a relay inside the depot.

As for light rail, the problem is that (east of the Grand Central), Northern Boulevard is one of the last "fast streets" in NYC (speed limit of 30, 40 through Alley Pond)...you can't reasonably have light rail there.

 

2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

It wouldn't be possible to construct a light-rail line on Northern Boulevard without, well, getting rid of Northern Boulevard (Extending the (7) isn't happening either).The closest alternative to that would be the Port Washington Branch of the LIRR, but most of it's stations are inconveniently located for Q12 passengers to rely on the line. While there's theoretically less capacity running artics on the Q12 than say, a light-rail line along Northern, the latter isn't an option.

Well in these cases, I think the next best option for the Q12 is straight up conversion into a Select Bus Service BRT route. This would preserve vehicular traffic in Northern Blvd, while catering to increased ridership. I would suggest that all Q12 trips be an SBS, while the Q13 would serve local stops. Stops east of Bell Blvd would be consolidated to speed service. Either that or split the Q12 into local or SBS routes.

I’m also thinking of a variant of the Q12 that makes all stops until Bell Blvd and makes no stops until the subway. I call this service the “Super Rapid” route. “Super Rapid” takes SBS to another level by combining features of local, limited/SBS, and express services into one type of service that is both fast and convenient. Under this plan, this service would make all stops to a certain point, then non-stop to the Subway. The Q12 would be great for this since Bayside and Little Neck have no subway service. Under the “Super Rapid” concept, the Q12 Super Rapid will make all stops in Little Neck and Bayside until Bell Blvd it another point on the line. After Bell Blvd, service would run non-stop to Flushing-Main Street via Northern Blvd. This would speed service for subway riders living in Little Neck and Bayside.

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33 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

1.) Well in these cases, I think the next best option for the Q12 is straight up conversion into a Select Bus Service BRT route. This would preserve vehicular traffic in Northern Blvd, while catering to increased ridership. 2.) I would suggest that all Q12 trips be an SBS, while the Q13 would serve local stops. Stops east of Bell Blvd would be consolidated to speed service. Either that or split the Q12 into local or SBS routes.

3.) I’m also thinking of a variant of the Q12 that makes all stops until Bell Blvd and makes no stops until the subway. I call this service the “Super Rapid” route. “Super Rapid” takes SBS to another level by combining features of local, limited/SBS, and express services into one type of service that is both fast and convenient. Under this plan, this service would make all stops to a certain point, then non-stop to the Subway. The Q12 would be great for this since Bayside and Little Neck have no subway service. Under the “Super Rapid” concept, the Q12 Super Rapid will make all stops in Little Neck and Bayside until Bell Blvd it another point on the line. After Bell Blvd, service would run non-stop to Flushing-Main Street via Northern Blvd. This would speed service for subway riders living in Little Neck and Bayside.

1.) For years, I took the Q12 every week from the Flushing-Main Street (7) Station to Northern Boulevard/Springfield Boulevard and walked from there to Queensborough Community College for exercise before my classes. The bus route gets a good amount of ridership, but converting it to an SBS-designated route without it even having LTD trips doesn't have me sold. Unless there's a significant increase in ridership on the Q12, the route should stay as it stands today.

2.) There would actually be a gap in coverage if you had the Q13 supplement the Q12, as the Q12 doesn't reach Northern Boulevard until it crosses Sanford Avenue/165th Street. The Q28 diverges off of Northern Boulevard onto Crocheron Avenue, so you would have to address the coverage gap between Crocheron and 165th along Northern.

3.) The N20 does exactly this, although your idea does hold weight, as NICE service isn't exactly "nice," as their equipment is known to routinely fail mechanically and where "no-show" buses are commonplace. Let's see how the Q12 does running artics. If it's successful and manages to promote an increase in ridership along the route, maybe we can talk about planning a few AM/PM rush LTDs into the timetable.

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1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I’m also thinking of a variant of the Q12 that makes all stops until Bell Blvd and makes no stops until the subway. I call this service the “Super Rapid” route. “Super Rapid” takes SBS to another level by combining features of local, limited/SBS, and express services into one type of service that is both fast and convenient. Under this plan, this service would make all stops to a certain point, then non-stop to the Subway. The Q12 would be great for this since Bayside and Little Neck have no subway service. Under the “Super Rapid” concept, the Q12 Super Rapid will make all stops in Little Neck and Bayside until Bell Blvd it another point on the line. After Bell Blvd, service would run non-stop to Flushing-Main Street via Northern Blvd. This would speed service for subway riders living in Little Neck and Bayside.

The Northeast Queens bus study I think mentioned something like that. It may work 

some routes that I have in mind is Q46, Q12(Flushing-165 local) (Flushing-165 first stop) 

The problem is I am afraid that the MTA is going to cut buses for the outer express portions due to lower ridership and cut happy MTA

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Well, there goes the S78. They piss me off to no end. The M20 on 30 minute headways is a death knell, makes it a completely useless bus in the evening (see: M12). As for the M5, you're telling me that destroying the route not once, but twice (the SF extension, the useless 33rd cutback) left us with a route nobody wants? Color me shocked. And now we increase the headways and it collapses further. Raises my blood pressure. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Well of course Bronx would get more articulated routes and Bx35 so far is getting them not Bx11, plus they could interline.

Bx28 need artics because it's more demanding then Bx30 and it would be the only route on Gun Hill Rd and until it reaches Co-op City. Also to help the Subway riders.

The Bx11 would have to be realigned past Grant. Shakespeare, 168 and Plimpton are extremely narrow.

Edited by Nova Fly Guy

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13 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

The Bx11 would have to be realigned past Grant. Shakespeare, 168 and Plimpton are extremely narrow.

More than likely the Bx11 would be moved from that section by the time the Bronx redesign goes into effect.

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11 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

It wouldn't be possible to construct a light-rail line on Northern Boulevard without, well, getting rid of Northern Boulevard.

In what universe is this true? A light rail takes up the same amount of room as an SBS.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bwwnyc123 said:

Well of course Bronx would get more articulated routes and Bx35 so far is getting them not Bx11, plus they could interline.

Bx28 need artics because it's more demanding then Bx30 and it would be the only route on Gun Hill Rd and until it reaches Co-op City. Also to help the Subway riders.

I wouldn't be shocked if the other three routes get artics sometime soon, specifically the Bx11, if they continue with the plan. If they continue with the Bx30 to WPR, then I don't see the Bx30 becoming artics, but if the Bx30 stays the same, then seeing GHR with three artic routes (Bx28/30/38) won't be a shock.

Edited by NBTA

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19 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

More than likely the Bx11 would be moved from that section by the time the Bronx redesign goes into effect.

That’s also part of the Bronx plan. The Bx11 would be rerouted from Shakespeare Avenue and follow he Bx35 straight to 170th Street. The service on Shakespeare would be replaced by a new section of the Bx18, which will become the Highbridge-Morris Heights versión of the Bx23 (a circulator). In addition, service will no longer serve Jennings Street. Instead, the Bx11 will be rerouted east along 174th Street to Parkchester, providing a new connection between Morrisania  and the (6) train, which is presently unavailable. This would replace the Bx36 on 174th Street, which will be rerouted along the more-Direct Tremont Avenue, with the Bx40 going along East 180th Street instead. Jennings Street service will be replaced by the Bx35, the route in question using articulated buses. This should make crosstown service more reliable. Hopefully the articulated buses can handle Bryant Avenue with no problems.

5 minutes ago, NBTA said:

I wouldn't be shocked if the other three routes get artics sometime soon, specifically the Bx11, if they continue with the plan. If they continue with the Bx30 to WPR, then I don't see the Bx30 becoming artics. 

At this point, all the new crosstown routes should be artic ops. For gods sake, the high ridership Bx36 route is going to be straightened along Tremont Avenue rather than circle via West Farms Sq. Who wouldn’t like that? Just saves everyone on the Bx36 a hell lot of time and headaches going from Soundview to West Bronx, and eventually, Washington Heights.

The Bx28 and Bx30 are going to have to wait just a bit. For some reason, I have a gut feeling that Co-op City is going to shut down changes to their neighborhood bus lines before the next Gun Hill line goes artic.

Honestly, what they should do is make a “Super Rapid” version of the 28 that makes all the Co-op City stops (including Asch Loop and Dresiser Loop), then stops only at Gun Hill (5), Gun Hill (2)(5), 205th Street (D) and possibly Bedford Park (4) via the one portion of the new route they’re definitely not going to shut down: the section of Bainbridge Avenue that is now currently used by the Bx34. Totally speeds up travel time to all key routes considering Bainbridge Avenue. Call it the Bx48 if you will.

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1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

That’s also part of the Bronx plan. The Bx11 would be rerouted from Shakespeare Avenue and follow he Bx35 straight to 170th Street. The service on Shakespeare would be replaced by a new section of the Bx18, which will become the Highbridge-Morris Heights versión of the Bx23 (a circulator). In addition, service will no longer serve Jennings Street. Instead, the Bx11 will be rerouted east along 174th Street to Parkchester, providing a new connection between Morrisania  and the (6) train, which is presently unavailable. This would replace the Bx36 on 174th Street, which will be rerouted along the more-Direct Tremont Avenue, with the Bx40 going along East 180th Street instead. Jennings Street service will be replaced by the Bx35, the route in question using articulated buses. This should make crosstown service more reliable. Hopefully the articulated buses can handle Bryant Avenue with no problems.

At this point, all the new crosstown routes should be artic ops. For gods sake, the high ridership Bx36 route is going to be straightened along Tremont Avenue rather than circle via West Farms Sq. Who wouldn’t like that? Just saves everyone on the Bx36 a hell lot of time and headaches going from Soundview to West Bronx, and eventually, Washington Heights.

The Bx28 and Bx30 are going to have to wait just a bit. For some reason, I have a gut feeling that Co-op City is going to shut down changes to their neighborhood bus lines before the next Gun Hill line goes artic.

Honestly, what they should do is make a “Super Rapid” version of the 28 that makes all the Co-op City stops (including Asch Loop and Dresiser Loop), then stops only at Gun Hill (5), Gun Hill (2)(5), 205th Street (D) and possibly Bedford Park (4) via the one portion of the new route they’re definitely not going to shut down: the section of Bainbridge Avenue that is now currently used by the Bx34. Totally speeds up travel time to all key routes considering Bainbridge Avenue. Call it the Bx48 if you will.

Just call it +SBS+ and you'll be fine.

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Posted (edited)

So when is the B46 going to receive its artics, most of the stops have been converted already. And the B46 needs them more than any of these routes 

Edited by Kingjunior34

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2019 at 6:28 PM, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

I don't see this stopping the MTA entirely. If they needed to, they could probably move and expand the stop to the NW corner (the pharmacy and "Hot Bialys" corner) of 78th Ave and Queens Blvd, and place the Q60 and X-Buses in the current Q46 stop. Also, if needed, they could probably queue up the not-in-service Q46 artics on Union Tpke over the GCP (ideally once the Kew Gardens Interchange construction is completed). Granted, parking spots would be lost; merchants and residents would not like this (I wouldn't - I lived over there for a bit). Other than the QV Depot not being able to handle the articulated buses at the present, I wouldn't swear off the Q46 from getting the artics.

Just know that the districts that the Q46 travels through is more or less against losing parking spaces, so moving buses and removing parking spaces would pretty much cause massive outcry by people who live around the areas.

For example, the Q5 was set to become a +Select Bus Service+ route, but was evidently killed by the communities and businesses affected by the loss of parking spaces.

 

19 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

Not to mention that Grand Avenue is getting 2012-13 XD60s for their operation on the B38. However, I do somewhat expect to see a few of them go to Casey Stengel Depot for the Q12 service with the rest to East NY for B15 service next year when they have artic operations ready.

And as for the Q12, at this porin, do you all think that the line should just be converted to light rail operations? Could increase capacity even more and, bring some transit service to the underserved borough.

Why in gods name would you want to put a light rail in Flushing smh.

My man, you gotta explore outside of your area more.

 

On 7/19/2019 at 6:58 PM, Around the Horn said:

First of all, where are these artics coming from for the Bx35 and Q12...

Second, what the actual f**k is that S78 change? That's ludicrous... It's packed enough on 15 minute headways 

For the Bx35, they don't actually need that much, interestingly enough....although, West Farms basically kills their artics on a day to day basis, and they got a whole lot OOS right now.....

The Q12 though, that's the question right there.....they'd basically run through their entire spare factor. I'm going to laugh if Stengel gets the rest of the non-2019 XD60s from Quill, or they keep the ones they have now from Quill(RIP 6031), with the addition of the buses loaned to LGA. It would up their numbers by a little bit, but I think they're gonna need a little more. I have a feeling that Quill would probably some more 2019s and boot their lower 6000s to CS.

Edited by Cait Sith
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I wonder if the Q12 and Q44 share the same fleet. Unwrap all the SBS ones and place little triangles maybe? Or they can run them separately like the Bx6/SBS. 
 

To be honest, I never considered the Q12 to go artic. They could add them for a few AM peak and PM peak runs but they’re quite empty midday hours.

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None of this crap involving the injection of more artics into the system is about addressing overcrowding capacity...

What I've long been sick of, is the bullshit disposition that these changes year in & year out are being made to increase customer satisfaction.... The MTA does not care about you, Mr./Ms./Mrs./Miss NYC public transit commuter.... Embarrassingly enough, you can't tell me about "customer demand" when you don't know (or care to know) the riderbases for each & every route you operate, either.....

Ever notice in the "alternatives" sections of these changes, the mere inaction of "Do Nothing" is almost always present - and on top of it, is the most expounded upon alternative to some initial proposal/upcoming change (if it isn't the ONLY alternative listed, mind you)?

They are trying to reduce manpower & resources & they are doing it as gradually as they can (much like with anything else).... That's all this shit is & that's all that it's been about....

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Just know that the districts that the Q46 travels through is more or less against losing parking spaces, so moving buses and removing parking spaces would pretty much cause massive outcry by people who live around the areas.

For example, the Q5 was set to become a +Select Bus Service+ route, but was evidently killed by the communities and businesses affected by the loss of parking spaces.

 

Why in gods name would you want to put a light rail in Flushing smh.

My man, you gotta explore outside of your area more.

 

For the Bx35, they don't actually need that much, interestingly enough....although, West Farms basically kills their artics on a day to day basis, and they got a whole lot OOS right now.....

The Q12 though, that's the question right there.....they'd basically run through their entire spare factor. I'm going to laugh if Stengel gets the rest of the non-2019 XD60s from Quill, or they keep the ones they have now from Quill (RIP 6031), with the addition of the buses loaned to LGA. It would up their numbers by a little bit, but I think they're gonna need a little more. I have a feeling that Quill would probably some more 2019s and boot their lower 6000s to CS.

Exactly my point! I was like, "It's 2019, not 1904!" Not to mention that putting SBS lanes on Northern Boulevard will stress traffic flow even further on a bus route that doesn't even have LTD service! It's not necessary nor justified in my opinion! Having artics on the Q12 should be more than enough.

Edited by AlgorithmOfTruth
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5 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Just know that the districts that the Q46 travels through is more or less against losing parking spaces, so moving buses and removing parking spaces would pretty much cause massive outcry by people who live around the areas.

For example, the Q5 was set to become a +Select Bus Service+ route, but was evidently killed by the communities and businesses affected by the loss of parking spaces.

 

Why in gods name would you want to put a light rail in Flushing smh.

My man, you gotta explore outside of your area more.

 

For the Bx35, they don't actually need that much, interestingly enough....although, West Farms basically kills their artics on a day to day basis, and they got a whole lot OOS right now.....

The Q12 though, that's the question right there.....they'd basically run through their entire spare factor. I'm going to laugh if Stengel gets the rest of the non-2019 XD60s from Quill, or they keep the ones they have now from Quill(RIP 6031), with the addition of the buses loaned to LGA. It would up their numbers by a little bit, but I think they're gonna need a little more. I have a feeling that Quill would probably some more 2019s and boot their lower 6000s to CS.

Quill is supposed to get the XE60S which I think would free up 15 XD60s. Where they would be sent is the question. The lower XD60s quill has isn’t by much. I could see the 2012-2013 XD60s being split like 25 to GA and maybe 15 going to CS. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Quill is supposed to get the XE60S which I think would free up 15 XD60s. Where they would be sent is the question. The lower XD60s quill has isn’t by much. I could see the 2012-2013 XD60s being split like 25 to GA and maybe 15 going to CS. 

Quill isn't getting those till the end of the year. The Q12 conversion starts in the fall. They want CS to only have the new Xcelsior artics, not the old ones.

Edited by Cait Sith

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For the B38, will both routes get the artics or only one route? Would be interesting to see the artic try to turn around on Cornelia St/Onderdonk Ave/Catalpa Ave like what the current B38 does

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3 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Quill isn't getting those till the end of the year. The Q12 conversion starts in the fall. They want CS to only have the new Xcelsior artics, not the old ones.

This may be a bit early to ask.. However, is there a possibility that Quill could lose some their newer XD60's to Stengel or will they cut into FB/MCH order currently in progress/stalling.

 

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8 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

This may be a bit early to ask.. However, is there a possibility that Quill could lose some their newer XD60's to Stengel or will they cut into FB/MCH order currently in progress/stalling.

 

11 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

The Q12 though, that's the question right there.....they'd basically run through their entire spare factor. I'm going to laugh if Stengel gets the rest of the non-2019 XD60s from Quill, or they keep the ones they have now from Quill(RIP 6031), with the addition of the buses loaned to LGA. It would up their numbers by a little bit, but I think they're gonna need a little more. I have a feeling that Quill would probably get some more 2019s and boot their lower 6000s to CS.

 

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11 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

The Q12 though, that's the question right there.....they'd basically run through their entire spare factor. I'm going to laugh if Stengel gets the rest of the non-2019 XD60s from Quill, or they keep the ones they have now from Quill(RIP 6031), with the addition of the buses loaned to LGA. It would up their numbers by a little bit, but I think they're gonna need a little more. I have a feeling that Quill would probably some more 2019s and boot their lower 6000s to CS.

Makes sense...

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