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Union Tpke

End of Cash Payment on-board LIRR trains, other cuts

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1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Ending cash on board is the first step towards proof of payment, hopefully.

Honestly I think all NY area need to just be POP. Like in California and those newer commuter rail. One or two empolyees on board each train, and a few police roaming around the system, no tap on a fine, tap on but not off max fare. But I don't think the union will go along with it

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2 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

And this initiative is listed under the heading "Customer Convenience." SMH.

That makes it seem as if you're one of the few who pays on the train. I can't think of a single time I used the LIRR and someone paid on the train.

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1 hour ago, Lex said:

That makes it seem as if you're one of the few who pays on the train. I can't think of a single time I used the LIRR and someone paid on the train.

What are you going to do when people pay for let's say Zone 1 to Zone 3, when they need to step up to travel to Zone 4?

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Gotta say, I'm not too thrilled with where the LIRR (or for that matter the MTA as a whole) is heading with this.

1- What will happen in cases of step-up fares (from off-peak to peak)? How will someone pay for this....debit or credit? Will this coincide with OMNY being released on the trains?

2- If I currently rush to get a train and decide its better to pay the penalty of lets say $7.00 as opposed to wait an hour for another train, how can one pay for this fare?

3- What if the TVM(s) is (are) out of order, how does one pay the fare (even with a penalty)?

In all three cases, I get a feeling that the LIRR and MTA is looking to move toward the EAGLE patrol mentality. This passive-aggressive form of fare collection from a passive-aggressive governor will have the EAGLEs giving out a summons rather than simply collect the fare. If anything, I'd rather they raise the cash penalty to cover the overhead than head in a slippery slope toward a system where payment via a smart-phone linked account becomes virtually compulsory, and any malfunction of the system turns ordinary citizens into criminals. Beware, folks.

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1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

What are you going to do when people pay for let's say Zone 1 to Zone 3, when they need to step up to travel to Zone 4?

What.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Gotta say, I'm not too thrilled with where the LIRR (or for that matter the MTA as a whole) is heading with this.

1- What will happen in cases of step-up fares (from off-peak to peak)? How will someone pay for this....debit or credit? Will this coincide with OMNY being released on the trains?

2- If I currently rush to get a train and decide its better to pay the penalty of lets say $7.00 as opposed to wait an hour for another train, how can one pay for this fare?

3- What if the TVM(s) is (are) out of order, how does one pay the fare (even with a penalty)?

In all three cases, I get a feeling that the LIRR and MTA is looking to move toward the EAGLE patrol mentality. This passive-aggressive form of fare collection from a passive-aggressive governor will have the EAGLEs giving out a summons rather than simply collect the fare. If anything, I'd rather they raise the cash penalty to cover the overhead than head in a slippery slope toward a system where payment via a smart-phone linked account becomes virtually compulsory, and any malfunction of the system turns ordinary citizens into criminals. Beware, folks.

 

 

 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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On 7/25/2019 at 11:34 PM, bobtehpanda said:

Ending cash on board is the first step towards proof of payment, hopefully.

 

On 7/26/2019 at 12:41 AM, Mtatransit said:

Honestly I think all NY area need to just be POP. Like in California and those newer commuter rail. One or two empolyees on board each train, and a few police roaming around the system, no tap on a fine, tap on but not off max fare. But I don't think the union will go along with it

 

9 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

And this initiative is listed under the heading "Customer Convenience." SMH.

 

6 hours ago, Lex said:

That makes it seem as if you're one of the few who pays on the train. I can't think of a single time I used the LIRR and someone paid on the train.

 

5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

What are you going to do when people pay for let's say Zone 1 to Zone 3, when they need to step up to travel to Zone 4?

 

4 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Gotta say, I'm not too thrilled with where the LIRR (or for that matter the MTA as a whole) is heading with this.

1- What will happen in cases of step-up fares (from off-peak to peak)? How will someone pay for this....debit or credit? Will this coincide with OMNY being released on the trains?

2- If I currently rush to get a train and decide its better to pay the penalty of lets say $7.00 as opposed to wait an hour for another train, how can one pay for this fare?

3- What if the TVM(s) is (are) out of order, how does one pay the fare (even with a penalty)?

In all three cases, I get a feeling that the LIRR and MTA is looking to move toward the EAGLE patrol mentality. This passive-aggressive form of fare collection from a passive-aggressive governor will have the EAGLEs giving out a summons rather than simply collect the fare. If anything, I'd rather they raise the cash penalty to cover the overhead than head in a slippery slope toward a system where payment via a smart-phone linked account becomes virtually compulsory, and any malfunction of the system turns ordinary citizens into criminals. Beware, folks.

E-tickets have been around for a few years now. There is no reason anyone should be paying the step-up fare when you can buy tickets right on your phone. I have the Metro-North and LIRR apps right on my iPad. It allows you to buy your tickets anywhere, even when you're in a rush. Proof of payment is simple because more and more of the conductors have scanners, so they can scan the bar code on your e-ticket.

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

E-tickets have been around for a few years now. There is no reason anyone should be paying the step-up fare when you can buy tickets right on your phone. I have the Metro-North and LIRR apps right on my iPad. It allows you to buy your tickets anywhere, even when you're in a rush. Proof of payment is simple because more and more of the conductors have scanners, so they can scan the bar code on your e-ticket.

Hell, the step-up fare is planned to be rendered even more obsolete with OMNY.

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6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

E-tickets have been around for a few years now. There is no reason anyone should be paying the step-up fare when you can buy tickets right on your phone. I have the Metro-North and LIRR apps right on my iPad. It allows you to buy your tickets anywhere, even when you're in a rush. Proof of payment is simple because more and more of the conductors have scanners, so they can scan the bar code on your e-ticket.

I'm aware of the E-tickets. As a less than daily LIRR rider and only occasional MNRR rider, I have not utilized it, though. I acknowledged the use of smart-phones for buying a ticket in my earlier post. I'm not fond of the compulsory nature with which an ordinary, non-citizen may ultimately need to have a smart-phone to enter a transit system. I feel like the goal of the MTA is to ultimately reduce the conductor headcount, remove TVMs through passive neglect, and ultimately track the commuters the way a motorist is track through EZPASS and license plate readers. The issues I'm raising here are more about how we are on a slippery slope to having our government tracking our every move. Also, how far off are we until the MTA refuses to accept legal tender altogether? Let's not forget, the Express Buses (as you're aware) do not take coins anymore (and they haven't taken dollars since the mid-90s for the Queens QM's and circa 2005 for the BXM's). I just don't trust the MTA and the current governor with where this is going.

Also, why the LIRR and not Metro North? Something doesn't seem right. Again, I gotta disagree and simply can't accept the attitude some may have that ..."oh yeah, cool....I can use my phone to pay for things....privacy, what's that? But look, my phone lights up and I get 'x' number of likes".

While I do not shy away from the use of technology, I think as citizens we should be aware of the why (why is the LIRR doing this....is there fraud going on? They've been accepting cash for over 100 years) as well as the what (what will happen to our right to having some form of privacy or will we now receive a summons if our phones do not work at any given moment).

Sorry....I don't think we should go ho-hum and simply accept what the MTA is trying to do here.

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The c/r's that'll be left standing (as in, employed) when the dust settles, better prepare themselves for a] less brief & b] more hostile interactions with passengers when they eradicate cash fare payments..... As a result, this will also end up delaying service even more (something else I don't miss about taking the LIRR, was the holding of trains at Jamaica to wait for the proper authorities to intervene and/or apprehend a "problem" commuter.... Always seemed to happen in the few occasions I would need to head directly to Manhattan (Penn) after work, too).... I mean, the LIRR isn't exactly the gold standard when it comes to OTP as it is :lol:

My concern is that of being too (or ultimately, completely) dependent on technology with things that perhaps should not be - and not for the crackpot reasoning & hubbaloo that entails the government controlling me, either....

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

My concern is that of being too (or ultimately, completely) dependent on technology with things that perhaps should not be

+1....agreed...we should not be too dependent on tech where we don't need to be. Your reasons in the first paragraph are valid, too.

10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

- and not for the crackpot reasoning & hubbaloo that entails the government controlling me, either....

I disagree. It's wrong to call it crackpot reasoning. Citizens (especially the outspoken type) should not become so passive as to accept a possible scenario where the government can monitor our every move, while possibly making criminals out of people who may not have a working phone to show proof of payment at a given point in time.

Edited by Uncle Floyd Fan

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

+1....agreed...we should not be too dependent on tech where we don't need to be. Your reasons in the first paragraph are valid, too.

I disagree. It's wrong to call it crackpot reasoning. Citizens (especially the outspoken type) should not become so passive as to accept a possible scenario where the government can monitor our every move, while possibly making criminals out of people who may not have a working phone to show proof of payment at a given point in time.

While I generally concur with your stance, I suppose there isn't much more to say....

Petrification of governmental control, due to doing away with onboard payment on a mode of transit, sure sounds nuts to me.....

That part of it, is simply taking the stance/point too far....  But I digress.

Edited by B35 via Church

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1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Petrification of governmental control due to doing away with onboard payment on a mode of transit, sure sounds nuts to me.....

....as I concur with some of your stances, too...but.....

I wouldn't say it's abject fear that I have of the government - I just don't like the punitive nature that could spawn from this (this is biggest concern I have - the authority who may give out the summons as opposed to the $7.00 surcharge). I don't think it's nuts at all. You may think it is a bit extreme to go to such a level, but sometimes an individual's rights are lost incrementally. Maybe younger generations will not know of a time when there was somewhat of an expectation to a right to privacy, or at a minimum an easier way to pay for a train fare without receiving a summons in the event of a non-working smart-phone, or some other type of tech failure (again, not a fear of big brother per se, but how unchecked government powers can affect all of us).

The point of writing all of this is not to have an unusual fear of the government / authorities, but it is to have an awareness of how the government can use technology to keep tabs on us, while making our lives a little more inconvenient - one step at a time.

With that said, we have to agree to disagree (you may think I'm taking the fear of government surveillance a bit too far, but I think you might be a bit indifferent or perhaps passive with such matters [ie - "there's nothing wrong here, folks - please ignore the man behind the curtain"]......and I digress, too.

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4 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

I'm aware of the E-tickets. As a less than daily LIRR rider and only occasional MNRR rider, I have not utilized it, though. I acknowledged the use of smart-phones for buying a ticket in my earlier post. I'm not fond of the compulsory nature with which an ordinary, non-citizen may ultimately need to have a smart-phone to enter a transit system. I feel like the goal of the MTA is to ultimately reduce the conductor headcount, remove TVMs through passive neglect, and ultimately track the commuters the way a motorist is track through EZPASS and license plate readers. The issues I'm raising here are more about how we are on a slippery slope to having our government tracking our every move. Also, how far off are we until the MTA refuses to accept legal tender altogether? Let's not forget, the Express Buses (as you're aware) do not take coins anymore (and they haven't taken dollars since the mid-90s for the Queens QM's and circa 2005 for the BXM's). I just don't trust the MTA and the current governor with where this is going.

Also, why the LIRR and not Metro North? Something doesn't seem right. Again, I gotta disagree and simply can't accept the attitude some may have that ..."oh yeah, cool....I can use my phone to pay for things....privacy, what's that? But look, my phone lights up and I get 'x' number of likes".

While I do not shy away from the use of technology, I think as citizens we should be aware of the why (why is the LIRR doing this....is there fraud going on? They've been accepting cash for over 100 years) as well as the what (what will happen to our right to having some form of privacy or will we now receive a summons if our phones do not work at any given moment).

Sorry....I don't think we should go ho-hum and simply accept what the MTA is trying to do here.

That's only because you aren't aware of the ultimate plan. Now I'm not happy with how they are going about it, but I do support the ultimate plan.  I actually spoke with them about it briefly again on a recent conference call.  You have to remember that the (MTA) is using outdated technology.  I actually applauded them in my first meeting, which wasn't exactly nice (we had some very heated exchanges lol), but on the move to OMNY, I agreed that they were moving in the right direction based on what I knew about the system, and how flexible it will be.  Now there are still some hiccups with it as they roll it out, but it will make paying much easier, and even people that don't have smart phones, etc. will have payment options. Having to have people go around and service those clunky vending machines is labor extensive, and is a cost expense that needs to go and be reinvested elsewhere. There's also all of the paper waste that will be eliminated with OMNY. That is the one thing I love about buying e-Tickets. My purchases are in my electronic "wallet" and I can move individual purchases to my e-mail folder.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's only because you aren't aware of the ultimate plan. Now I'm not happy with how they are going about it, but I do support the ultimate plan.  I actually spoke with them about it briefly again on a recent conference call.  You have to remember that the (MTA) is using outdated technology.  I actually applauded them in my first meeting, which wasn't exactly nice (we had some very heated exchanges lol), but on the move to OMNY, I agreed that they were moving in the right direction based on what I knew about the system, and how flexible it will be.  Now there are still some hiccups with it as they roll it out, but it will make paying much easier, and even people that don't have smart phones, etc. will have payment options. Having to have people go around and service those clunky vending machines is labor extensive, and is a cost expense that needs to go and be reinvested elsewhere. There's also all of the paper waste that will be eliminated with OMNY. That is the one thing I love about buying e-Tickets. My purchases are in my electronic "wallet" and I can move individual purchases to my e-mail folder.

I'll concede that I do not know what the 'ultimate plan' is, and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

My underlying concern is how under the guise of 'technology' and 'improving things', we might get to a situation where ordinary citizens receive a summons for a non-working smartphone (things happen). Right now, if one's phone doesn't work, they can pay a cash fare with a nominal penalty of less than $10.00. Will an alternate option be available? Or, will be all become more involved with something similar to an EAGLE team, and perhaps be subjected to a $100.00 fine?

Also, why only the LIRR and not MNRR? Still kind of fishy......

As for paying for transit, I tend to be a contrarian with how things work. I written about how I'm against the SBS and the EAGLE team concept. I've always been a supporter of paying at the point of entry on buses and subways, and I've always supported having an easier way to pay for train fares (heck, I didn't like when the TVM's came about.....it's not better....I'd rather hand the conductor money and say "One Way to Penn, Please"). Keep in mind, this system worked for roughly 100 years. People were employed to handle cash. Why is it a problem, now? So...we're basically going to fork over funds to a contractor (aka - a friend of the politicians) to get something that has a cool name (OMNY! yay!) and lights up, as opposed to paying MTA employees to work.

Yeah, my tone may sound a bit hyperbolic, but I think we should be skeptical at anything the MTA may offer up. Besides, will OMNY even take effect when the cash payment option on LIRR ceases (kind of like how the coins can't be used on EXP buses anymore)?

Sorry, I can't say I'm with you here - yet -in regards to the new payment system(s) and how it ties in with cutting out legal tender beforehand. My faith in the MTA higher ups is quite limited.

Edited by Uncle Floyd Fan

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

I'll concede that I do not know what the 'ultimate plan' is, and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

My underlying concern is how under the guise of 'technology' and 'improving things', we might get to a situation where ordinary citizens receive a summons for a non-working smartphone (things happen). Right now, if one's phone doesn't work, they can pay a cash fare with a nominal penalty of less than $1000. Will an alternate option be available? Or, will be all become more involved with something similar to an EAGLE team, and perhaps be subjected to a $100.00 fine?

Also, why only the LIRR and not MNRR? Still kind of fishy......

As for paying for transit, I tend to be a contrarian with how things work. I written about how I'm against the SBS and the EAGLE team concept. I've always been a supporter of paying at the point of entry on buses and subways, and I've always supported having an easier way to pay for train fares (heck, I didn't like when the TVM's came about.....it's not better....I'd rather hand the conductor money and say "One Way to Penn, Please"). Keep in mind, this system worked for roughly 100 years. People were employed to handle cash. Why is it a problem, now? So...we're basically going to fork over funds to a contractor (aka - a friend of the politicians) to get something that has a cool name (OMNY! yay!) and lights up, as opposed to paying MTA employees to work.

Yeah, my tone may sound a bit hyperbolic, but I think we should be skeptical at anything the MTA may offer up. Besides, will OMNY even take effect when the cash payment option on LIRR ceases (kind of like how the coins can't be used on EXP buses anymore)?

Sorry, I can't say I'm with you here - yet -in regards to the new payment system(s) and how it ties in with cutting out legal tender beforehand. My faith in the MTA higher ups is quite limited.

There have been portable credit cards on Metro-North trains for years now. Years ago I once couldn't find a ticket, so I had to pay the difference for another one that I did find. Conductor swipped my card right there and it prints out a receipt for you too. It makes the whole process quicker and easier for the conductor and for the (MTA) to not take cash. The railroads did better in terms of having the e-ticket program and credit card readers available now for years.  Very few people pay with cash now since so many use the app.  Keep in mind that you are supposed to activate your e-ticket BEFORE you board so if there is a problem you know about it in advance. I never do because I know that I can get signal and depending on where I'm at I may or may not be checked, so no point in activating a ticket if it won't be checked. Save it for the next time... For monthly passes, the e-ticket is not fully available just yet.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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10 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

As for paying for transit, I tend to be a contrarian with how things work. I written about how I'm against the SBS and the EAGLE team concept. I've always been a supporter of paying at the point of entry on buses and subways, and I've always supported having an easier way to pay for train fares (heck, I didn't like when the TVM's came about.....it's not better....I'd rather hand the conductor money and say "One Way to Penn, Please"). Keep in mind, this system worked for roughly 100 years. People were employed to handle cash. Why is it a problem, now? So...we're basically going to fork over funds to a contractor (aka - a friend of the politicians) to get something that has a cool name (OMNY! yay!) and lights up, as opposed to paying MTA employees to work.

I have no words for this...

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2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There have been portable credit cards on Metro-North trains for years now. Years ago I once couldn't find a ticket, so I had to pay the difference for another one that I did fine. Guy swipped my card right there and it prints out a receipt for you too. It makes the whole process quicker and easier for the conductor and for the (MTA) to not take cash. The railroads did better in terms of having the e-ticket program and credit card readers available now for years.  Very few people pay with cash now since so many use the app.  Keep in mind that you are supposed to activate your ticket BEFORE you board so if there is a problem you know about it in advance. I never do because I know that I can get signal and depending on where I'm at I may or may not be checked, so no point in activating a ticket if it won't be checked. Save it for the next time... For monthly passes, the e-ticket is not fully available just yet.

Hmm...that's right, MNRR takes credit cards....does the LIRR? I never tried to pay with one onboard.

Even though I'm on the LIRR way more often then MNRR, I trust the MNRR system a bit more.

I'll eventually go digital with paying for the LIRR, but only when virtually forced to do so.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lex said:

I have no words for this...

sure you do....

Think about it for a moment....across the Hudson, bus driver for NJ Transit will break a 20 dollar bill on a full service route. Private vans will also accept cash. But somehow, parts of the MTA have to be 'modern' and 'efficient' and come up with ways to inconvenience the commuters.

Edited by Uncle Floyd Fan

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5 minutes ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Hmm...that's right, MNRR takes credit cards....does the LIRR? I never tried to pay with one onboard.

Even though I'm on the LIRR way more often then MNRR, I trust the MNRR system a bit more.

I'll eventually go digital with paying for the LIRR, but only when virtually forced to do so.

I'm not sure to be honest. I have only bought e-tickets for LIRR rides of late, mainly City Ticket. Works beautifully. It has allowed me to catch trains that I wouldn't get otherwise as I have bought them right on the platform as the train was ready to depart,

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