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Think $550,000 reinvested from eliminating paper schedules is going to avoid cuts think again (Potential Fall 2019 service cuts)

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Anyone here wanting to take bets as to what gets to live and what gets to die, especially since these could be worse than 2010?

 

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Ha ha ha here Is the gag they already had these "cuts" in mind.. 

The A div work program for the fall already reflected that..

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Posted (edited)

Probobaly they will cut the (B) and (W) to end early (like they already do a lot of times) and perhaps also cut those lines middays . Maybe cut the (C) and (5) (south of 180) on weekends . perhaps even cut the (3) on weekends though I hope it’s not that bad!

Edited by Abba

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1 hour ago, Abba said:

Probobaly they will cut the (B) and (W) to end early (like they already do a lot of times) and perhaps also cut those lines middays . Maybe cut the (C) and (5) (south of 180) on weekends . perhaps even cut the (3) on weekends though I hope it’s not that bad!

I don't think they will go that far- given how obsessed Cuomo is with making the subway look good (and that he takes credit for it even though it is Byford's work), I'd imagine the brunt of most cuts would be on the buses (the new redesigns they are doing will be a chance for them to do just that).

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The (B) and (W) at evening is almost for certain . Maybe even (w) midday . 

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I alluded to it in the bus section & I'll repeat it here.... They really think the public is as naive & as out of touch with reality as they are....

You could be one of the most mathematically challenged people on earth & still conclude that the math simply doesn't add up....

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I sincerely doubt if Adrew Cuomo will take responsibility for anything. After all, it is his people that were in charge and signed the contracts. He therefore was involved one way or another since he was elected in 2010

If Andrew took responsbility for something then how about his failure to help NYCHA when he was HUD Secretary under Clinton. That was the time to do it as if he (and his partner, the mayor), would have done something for the tenants at that time, the developments would not be in the bad shape that they are in now.

The political establishment will do whatever it wants as they know that  the likeliehood of being voted out of office are slim and none.

 

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11 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

The political establishment will do whatever it wants as they know that  the likeliehood of being voted out of office are slim and none.

It's about getting the power and holding it, the people are rarely first priority in such a race. It's a shame to see people like Byford and such getting silenced for keeping up a good fight through this.

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23 hours ago, Abba said:

The (B) and (W) at evening is almost for certain . Maybe even (w) midday . 

1. The midday (W) cut wouldn’t really save $$$, because the crews would be needed again for the PM rush. Might as well do service frequency reductions.

2. Maybe even drop the (W) again and make the (N) local in Manhattan north of Canal St, with some rush hour trips to Whitehall St (all signed as (N)). Likely NOT going to happen due to the rush hour demand required, meaning that you would need the same number of trains as are being provided now, and you’d run into the same problem as in idea 1.

3. They’ll probably do the following:

- Midday service on the (2)(3)(4)(5) will run every 10 minutes instead of every 8

- midday service on the (6) will run every 5-6 minutes instead of every 4

- midday service on the (7) reduced to every 6 minutes

- midday (L) service reduced to every 8 minutes

- midday (E)(F) service reduced to every 10 minutes

- midday (B)(C)(D)(G)(J)(M)(N)(R)(W) service reduced to every 12 minutes

- midday (Q) service reduced to every 10 minutes.

 

weekends:

(3) and (5) train service will run as shuttles:

(5) - Dyre Av to East 180 St

(3) - no longer run weekends, with the (4) extended via local to New Lots in its place.

(7) service reduced to every 6-8 minutes both Saturday and sunday

12 minute headway’s permanently for the (C)(D)(G)(J)(M)(N).

cut the (M) train back to Myrtle Av-Broadway (after the (L) train work).

weekend (L) trains every 8-10 minutes after the shutdown is over.

 

 

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And then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service, and then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service... I hope Cuomo is remembered as an idiot

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25 minutes ago, W4ST said:

And then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service, and then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service... I hope Cuomo is remembered as an idiot

On the optimistic side, poor leaders who only achieved power due to familial connections are usually always viewed as failures... just look at George Bush Jr...

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Part of this is Cuomo, yes. But a lot of the issue here is the peculiarly American inattention towards operating built systems. Whether it’s highways, waterways or railroads, we as a country are much more interested in building than maintaining — a fact which alone explains the piss poor quality of much American infrastructure.

This is most certainly carried through to NYC: the advocates and electeds (Cuomo included) all try to fund the MTA’s capital budget — it is that one which produces the ribbon cuttings, after all — and don’t pay more than lip service to the agency’s operating needs, let alone attempt to improve agency operations so that it can do more with less. We need trains to run on all these shiny new tracks and signals our capital money is buying — and as it so happens, it’s a lot cheaper to fund a year of increased train service than it is to build new lines. But alas, “we funded a service increase from 15 to 20tph” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “we installed modern signals” or “we opened a new subway line.” I think the “reducing agency cost base” point bears (a lot of) emphasis: it’s a broad generalization, I know, but if NYCT ran its subways at Chicago operating costs, the system would turn a sizable operating profit. I don’t expect NYCT to achieve those levels of efficiency at any point in the future, but even doing simple things like getting a handle on debt service could do wonders for maintaining service levels. A touchy, nuanced subject, but if any of you all are interested in advocacy, it’s one that should be on your radar. 

As for these cuts, I’m guessing it’ll just be more baselining supplements. 10 million isn’t all that much money. 

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On 8/19/2019 at 11:29 AM, darkstar8983 said:

1. The midday (W) cut wouldn’t really save $$$, because the crews would be needed again for the PM rush. Might as well do service frequency reductions.

2. Maybe even drop the (W) again and make the (N) local in Manhattan north of Canal St, with some rush hour trips to Whitehall St (all signed as (N)). Likely NOT going to happen due to the rush hour demand required, meaning that you would need the same number of trains as are being provided now, and you’d run into the same problem as in idea 1.

3. They’ll probably do the following:

- Midday service on the (2)(3)(4)(5) will run every 10 minutes instead of every 8

- midday service on the (6) will run every 5-6 minutes instead of every 4

- midday service on the (7) reduced to every 6 minutes

- midday (L) service reduced to every 8 minutes

- midday (E)(F) service reduced to every 10 minutes

- midday (B)(C)(D)(G)(J)(M)(N)(R)(W) service reduced to every 12 minutes

- midday (Q) service reduced to every 10 minutes.

 

weekends:

(3) and (5) train service will run as shuttles:

(5) - Dyre Av to East 180 St

(3) - no longer run weekends, with the (4) extended via local to New Lots in its place.

(7) service reduced to every 6-8 minutes both Saturday and sunday

12 minute headway’s permanently for the (C)(D)(G)(J)(M)(N).

cut the (M) train back to Myrtle Av-Broadway (after the (L) train work).

weekend (L) trains every 8-10 minutes after the shutdown is over.

 

 

So what serves 145th and 148th on weekends?

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On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:26 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

It's about getting the power and holding it, the people are rarely first priority in such a race. It's a shame to see people like Byford and such getting silenced for keeping up a good fight through this.

When it's about the people, it's never about the people.....

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 7:57 PM, W4ST said:

And then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service, and then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service... I hope Cuomo is remembered as an idiot

Inevitable (on both points).....

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 8:25 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

On the optimistic side, poor leaders who only achieved power due to familial connections are usually always viewed as failures... just look at George Bush Jr...

Yeah, beneficiaries of nepotism period, are seldom ever given any respect they don't deserve....

Meritocracy > Nepotism, any day of the week.....

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59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So what serves 145th and 148th on weekends?

Maybe a (3) shuttle train or shuttle bus

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Posted (edited)

@darkstar8983Pretty much any proposal to cut the (W) entirely is a non-starter because the (Q) can no longer be extended to Astoria to replace it, unlike in 2010. Even so, why would anyone want to reinstate the Prince St merge on weekdays? (I’d personally love to get rid of it entirely outside of late nights and work reroutes). 

Cutting the (3) entirely on weekends and cutting the (M) and (5) back to weekend stub shuttles, will just send even more people to Uber and Lyft and make car traffic in the City even worse than it already is. 

On 8/19/2019 at 7:57 PM, W4ST said:

And then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service, and then less people will ride the subways, and then they will cut more service... I hope Cuomo is remembered as an idiot

Indeed it will, and that’s why they would be unwise to do that as a first resort. But I don’t think Cuomo will care if people remember him as an idiot. Yes, it is idiotic that he isn’t doing more to make sure the (MTA) never has a real reason to cry poverty and threaten service cuts and be forced to implement foolish, delay-prone service patterns like the 2010-16 (N)(Q)(R) plan. But as long as his election opponents come from a political party that not only doesn’t value being educated and informed, but also seems to actually value being stupid, it won’t matter to Cuomo one bit.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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17 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

@darkstar8983Pretty much any proposal to cut the (W) entirely is a non-starter because the (Q) can no longer be extended to Astoria to replace it, unlike in 2010. Even so, why would anyone want to reinstate the Prince St merge on weekdays? (I’d personally love to get rid of it entirely outside of late nights and work reroutes). 

Cutting the (3) entirely on weekends and cutting the (M) and (5) back to weekend stub shuttles, will just send even more people to Uber and Lyft and make car traffic in the City even worse than it already is. 

Indeed it will, and that’s why they would be unwise to do that as a first resort. But I don’t think Cuomo will care if people remember him as an idiot. Yes, it is idiotic that he isn’t doing more to make sure the (MTA) never has a real reason to cry poverty and threaten service cuts and be forced to implement foolish, delay-prone service patterns like the 2010-16 (N)(Q)(R) plan. But as long as his election opponents come from a political party that not only doesn’t value being educated and informed, but also seems to actually value being stupid, it won’t matter to Cuomo one bit.

Hence why I said the (W) elimination likely WONT happen. But the midday and weekend frequency reductions I completely see them doing, along with ending the non-essential routes by 9PM

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18 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

@darkstar8983Pretty much any proposal to cut the (W) entirely is a non-starter because the (Q) can no longer be extended to Astoria to replace it, unlike in 2010. Even so, why would anyone want to reinstate the Prince St merge on weekdays? (I’d personally love to get rid of it entirely outside of late nights and work reroutes). 

Cutting the (3) entirely on weekends and cutting the (M) and (5) back to weekend stub shuttles, will just send even more people to Uber and Lyft and make car traffic in the City even worse than it already is. 

Indeed it will, and that’s why they would be unwise to do that as a first resort. But I don’t think Cuomo will care if people remember him as an idiot. Yes, it is idiotic that he isn’t doing more to make sure the (MTA) never has a real reason to cry poverty and threaten service cuts and be forced to implement foolish, delay-prone service patterns like the 2010-16 (N)(Q)(R) plan. But as long as his election opponents come from a political party that not only doesn’t value being educated and informed, but also seems to actually value being stupid, it won’t matter to Cuomo one bit.

The only good thing that came out of the 2010 service cuts was the (V) and (M) merge. The (N)(Q) and (E) service pattern on Broadway during the weekday was ridiculously delayed with the (N) and (Q) crossing in front of each other at least 3 times during the route, which also delayed the (R) .

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

The only good thing that came out of the 2010 service cuts was the (V) and (M) merge. The (N)(Q) and (E) service pattern on Broadway during the weekday was ridiculously delayed with the (N) and (Q) crossing in front of each other at least 3 times during the route, which also delayed the (R) .

This right here makes me wonder what if the (MTA) deinterlined the System during this era, how different would things be?

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18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The only good thing that came out of the 2010 service cuts was the (V) and (M) merge. The (N)(Q) and (E) service pattern on Broadway during the weekday was ridiculously delayed with the (N) and (Q) crossing in front of each other at least 3 times during the route, which also delayed the (R) .

It was horrible, they should have sent the (N) via Whitehall even though that would mean that Canal Street (Bridge) platform would face overcrowding. 

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22 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

It was horrible, they should have sent the (N) via Whitehall even though that would mean that Canal Street (Bridge) platform would face overcrowding. 

What they should have done was let the (N) remain the Broadway Express and do short turn (R) trips between 57th St and Whitehall St.

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On 8/20/2019 at 1:31 AM, RR503 said:

Part of this is Cuomo, yes. But a lot of the issue here is the peculiarly American inattention towards operating built systems. Whether it’s highways, waterways or railways, we as a country are much more interested in building than maintaining — a fact which alone explains the piss poor quality of much American infrastructure.

This is most certainly carried through to NYC: the advocates and electeds (Cuomo included) all try to fund the MTA’s capital budget — it is that one which produces the ribbon cuttings, after all — and don’t pay more than lip service to the agency’s operating needs, let alone attempt to improve agency operations so that it can do more with less. We need trains to run on all these shiny new tracks and signals our capital money is buying — and as it so happens, it’s a lot cheaper to fund a year of increased train service than it is to build new lines. But alas, “we funded a service increase from 15 to 20tph” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “we installed modern signals” or “we opened a new subway line.” I think the “reducing agency cost base” point bears (a lot of) emphasis: it’s a broad generalization, I know, but if NYCT ran its subways at Chicago operating costs, the system would turn a sizable operating profit. I don’t expect NYCT to achieve those levels of efficiency at any point in the future, but even doing simple things like getting a handle on debt service could do wonders for maintaining service levels. A touchy, nuanced subject, but if any of you all are interested in advocacy, it’s one that should be on your radar. 

As for these cuts, I’m guessing it’ll just be more baselining supplements. 10 million isn’t all that much money. 

Fixed that for you.

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

What they should have done was let the (N) remain the Broadway Express and do short turn (R) trips between 57th St and Whitehall St.

The problem with that idea is that it costs money, something the MTA was claiming it didn't have, which is why the (W) had been discontinued in 2010-2016, giving the garbage service pattern that the (N)(Q)(R) ran in that time. The Broadway Local stops have really high ridership, that cannot be covered with just a 9-10TPH (R) train. 

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26 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

The problem with that idea is that it costs money, something the MTA was claiming it didn't have, which is why the (W) had been discontinued in 2010-2016, giving the garbage service pattern that the (N)(Q)(R) ran in that time. The Broadway Local stops have really high ridership, that cannot be covered with just a 9-10TPH (R) train. 

Technically you would be using less money, with (R) train crews on an Manhattan shuttle rather then running from Astoria and interlining with the (N) .

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