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Mpn4179

Queens Existing Conditions Report Released

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And here I was, expecting it to be released in September at the earliest...

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They like doing that, releasing it on the last day of the month to be able to say they met their deadline.

Offhand, I didn't like how in the "Corridor Profiles" portion, they seem to imply that there is low ridership potential on the western portion, just because the Q89 (which ran middays, every 90 minutes) had low ridership. If it were served with a better route (e.g. Start at Rockaway Blvd on the (A) and take Rockaway Blvd-Linden Blvd to end at either Merrick Blvd or the VA Hospital), it would've likely had more ridership. Or maybe swing over along 130th Street and 109th Avenue to replace the Q41 (basically, have the Q21 cover the Lindenwood portion, and have the Q8/24/112 cover the Ozone Park-Jamaica portion). 

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This report has many charts that have very low quality and that are impossible to read.

Good luck reading this:

48658187483_1b2c7ac185_b.jpgScreen Shot 2019-09-01 at 7.57.45 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Or this:

48658187503_64885be166_b.jpgScreen Shot 2019-09-01 at 7.57.37 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

It looks like they want to move the Q23 from Austin Street to Queens Boulevard, given that they note Austin Street being a narrow corridor. It is an important business corridor, and moving it will be very detrimental. People heading southbound on the Q23 will have to cross the many lanes of Queens Boulevard to get to the shops and businesses on Austin. There is a reason why there are stops on the Q23 on either side of the Boulevard. While I support reducing the number of stops on buses, cutting either one  would be an awful idea.

48658187568_51934dcda7_b.jpgScreen Shot 2019-09-01 at 7.56.22 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

By the way, you can see me in this image.

48658187343_ed89093edb_z.jpgScreen Shot 2019-09-01 at 7.59.05 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

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Population and employment density is concentrated along subway lines.

The Queens Bus Network covers much of the rest of the borough, but travel times are often long since routes meander throughout various neighborhoods before reaching the subway.

WTF.... that couldn't be anymore false.

Quote

Existing routes meander through much of the borough, since they were designed to get everyone to a subway station.

Sounds to me like they want to do away with feeder routes.

Quote

The most productive routes are often short and mostly straight. They also tend to traverse through high-activity areas and make connections with subway lines and other key bus routes.

...and how exactly is this a "limitation"???
 

Quote

 

Many bus routes try to serve several different purposes at once, serving none of the individual purposes well.

Congratulations, you just described the role of buses in a f***ing bus network...

--------------------

I'm done with this.... I can't do this anymore.... There is a FATAL flaw they're running with here.

If I'm to go by the first few pages of this pdf, well prepare yourselves for a bunch of Q60, Q24, and Q54 type of bus routes - Long, straight bus routes that's going to attempt to supplant the # of people doing bus-subway commutes in the current network, to that of having them solely use the bus.... That means less overall (individual) bus routes in the boroughs... That's going to end up meaning less buses on the roads, borough-wide... And with this recent bus stop removal kick that they're on, you can factor that into the mix too....

The flaw here is that Queens is not monolithic - There are plenty of Queens residents commuting to Manhattan.

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Interesting report we have here. However I’m not convinced that the MTA will change much outside of stop eliminations/ consolidations, minor reroutings and perhaps some route combinations. I’m still under the impression that the (MTA) is still focusing on how they can get people quickly to the subway stations instead of getting them to their destinations. I’m not even all that convinced that MTA bus routes will see the changes that NYCT routes might. 
 

I figured that the Q25 SBS plan was canceled because of how narrow Kissena Blvd is between the Horace Harding Expressway and Main Street. The MTA did remove several stops about a decade ago along Kissena Blvd, so I suppose what they can do next is implement short turns for the Q25, remove the Maple Ave stop and the new omny payment system. I was also thinking that perhaps they can make the Q25 a Flushing to Jamaica route and the Q34 a College Point to Flushing route. 

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

WTF.... that couldn't be anymore false.

Sounds to me like they want to do away with feeder routes.

...and how exactly is this a "limitation"???
 

Congratulations, you just described the role of buses in a f***ing bus network...

--------------------

I'm done with this.... I can't do this anymore.... There is a FATAL flaw they're running with here.

If I'm to go by the first few pages of this pdf, well prepare yourselves for a bunch of Q60, Q24, and Q54 type of bus routes - Long, straight bus routes that's going to attempt to supplant the # of people doing bus-subway commutes in the current network, to that of having them solely use the bus.... That means less overall (individual) bus routes in the boroughs... That's going to end up meaning less buses on the roads, borough-wide... And with this recent bus stop removal kick that they're on, you can factor that into the mix too....

The flaw here is that Queens is not monolithic - There are plenty of Queens residents commuting to Manhattan.

It’s funny that you mentioned those routes, because what they all have in common is that they are all unreliable, they bunch terribly and serve multiple purposes but don’t do any of them quite well. I still don’t know why a route that originates all the way from Jamaica/168th Street is going up to Patchen/ Lafayette in Bushwick. When the Q24 was cut back to Broadway Junction back in 2010, I felt like it was better for the route overall. Ridership along Broadway is not too strong however I find that a lot of people use the Q24 over there due to the (J) just lacking so much at those stops. It’s bad enough that they closed a set of entrances at each stop and none of them have elevators. I noticed that during those annoying G.O’s that cut the (J) between Broadway Junction and Jamaica you will have a few who ride the Q24 all the way down Atlantic to Jamaica. 

 I don’t see too many routes in their current forms that can necessarily be merged with another or extended without actually really changing a majority of the route itself. They may try to extend the Q64 somewhere East which I wouldn’t be in favor of. Perhaps they can do something with the Q26, but I don’t see too many now that can actually work without any problems. 

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7 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t see too many routes in their current forms that can necessarily be merged with another or extended without actually really changing a majority of the route itself. They may try to extend the Q64 somewhere East which I wouldn’t be in favor of. Perhaps they can do something with the Q26, but I don’t see too many now that can actually work without any problems. 

They're not looking to make things work, they're looking to cut costs under the guise of making things work.

Forget about routes in their current forms, this is a clean slate approach (quote-unquote).... Reading this PDF, it's rather pretty clear what their aim is & how it's going to be carried out.... We just don't know (yet) what the actual routes/end result will be....

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So they make a decent profit for the operation of the Q19.... no wonder they don't seem to want to improve the frequency on that route

Edited by Mtatransit

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10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Reading this PDF, it's rather pretty clear what their aim is & how it's going to be carried out.... We just don't know (yet) what the actual routes/end result will be....

 

But MTA staff do know what the end result will be, because they clearly decided that before starting the whole "redesign" process. That's why they should have skipped the neighborhood meetings and "Existing Conditions" report and just released the Final Report.

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24 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

But MTA staff do know what the end result will be, because they clearly decided that before starting the whole "redesign" process. That's why they should have skipped the neighborhood meetings and "Existing Conditions" report and just released the Final Report.

I'm referring to "we", as in the riding public....

I personally don't care when, or how prompt this final report is released.... The fact that this nonsense is impending is enough.

Edited by B35 via Church

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm referring to "we", as in the riding public....

I personally don't care when, or how prompt this final report is released.... The fact that this nonsense is impending is enough.

I'm interested to see exactly how much comes from those who care (as opposed to those who don't).

I seriously doubt the politicians will even bother trying to act as a bridge between their constituents and the MTA. After all, the bulk of them have shown to care even less than the ones in the MTA who can't even be bothered to give a shit.

Everything I just said applies on a more general scale than just Queens, but because Queens is a particularly difficult borough to address, I can only hope that the bad ideas are kept to a minimum.

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@Union Tpke Maybe they can coordinate with NYCDOT to make it one-way westbound. Then eastbound buses can use Queens Blvd (which riders wouldn't have to cross to get to/from Austin Street) and westbound buses can stay on Austin Street

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6 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Union Tpke Maybe they can coordinate with NYCDOT to make it one-way westbound. Then eastbound buses can use Queens Blvd (which riders wouldn't have to cross to get to/from Austin Street) and westbound buses can stay on Austin Street

The street already is one-way westbound between 77th Avenue and Ascan Avenue. You would have to reverse the direction of some streets in the area, but I think this could work. Given that I walk on this street once a week, I am surprised that I hadn't thought of that.

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2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Union Tpke Maybe they can coordinate with NYCDOT to make it one-way westbound. Then eastbound buses can use Queens Blvd (which riders wouldn't have to cross to get to/from Austin Street) and westbound buses can stay on Austin Street

The issue is that, having it run via the side lanes of Queens Boulevard in this section might still be too far. There are an additional two lanes between Yellowstone Boulevard and 71st Avenue in between McDonald Park and businesses. This walk might still be too far.

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The Q23's actual usage on Austin st IMO isn't all too great... I used to frequent a hobby shop over there called Montasy Comics (before they got flooded out & moved to Midtown Manhattan)... On the SB Q23, I find that most just get off at QB (south side) & walk to whatever particular establishment they're heading to along/around Austin.... The NB Q23, I would sometimes see some people waiting over there by the 69th rd stop, but the 70th rd stop? Seldom, if ever....

I wouldn't exactly vie for taking it off Austin altogether though.....

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21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The Q23's actual usage on Austin st IMO isn't all too great... I used to frequent a hobby shop over there called Montasy Comics (before they got flooded out & moved to Midtown Manhattan)... On the SB Q23, I find that most just get off at QB (south side) & walk to whatever particular establishment they're heading to along/around Austin.... The NB Q23, I would sometimes see some people waiting over there by the 69th rd stop, but the 70th rd stop? Seldom, if ever....

I wouldn't exactly vie for taking it off Austin altogether though.....

I remember visiting Montasy Comics once with one of my old friends in Middle School. It was nice, but i didn’t buy anything. I’m going to agree with you on the 70th Road Stop Almost never being Used. I pass by Austin Street all the time cause my dad teaches a Brazillian Martial Arts called “Capoeria” in the Forest Hills Area. 

Back on topic though. You suggest that the Q23 has its stop removed by 70th Road? That wouldn’t be too bad considering the high foot traffic on Austin Street. 

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4 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I remember visiting Montasy Comics once with one of my old friends in Middle School. It was nice, but i didn’t buy anything. I’m going to agree with you on the 70th Road Stop Almost never being Used. I pass by Austin Street all the time cause my dad teaches a Brazillian Martial Arts called “Capoeria” in the Forest Hills Area. 

Back on topic though. You suggest that the Q23 has its stop removed by 70th Road? That wouldn’t be too bad considering the high foot traffic on Austin Street. 

Even though I stopped patronizing Montasy Comics as a company as a whole, I will say that the old Forest Hills location was infinitely better than the current inconspicuous location about a block or so away from Bryant Park (for numerous reasons)....

Be there as it may, I mean, they may as well get rid of that stop; one stop in the middle of that commercial strip is good enough... After 69th should be the stop for the subway; just getting from Austin to QB is a pain in the neck with all the peds (as you mention).....

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Be there as it may, I mean, they may as well get rid of that stop; one stop in the middle of that commercial strip is good enough... After 69th should be the stop for the subway; just getting from Austin to QB is a pain in the neck with all the peds (as you mention).....

Not to mention the congestion caused by motorists on that street. Which usually occurs between 9AM to 8:30 or 9 PM from my observation’s on a GOOD day. 

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There are lots of choices here, including the listing of Parsons Blvd in Whitestone, and Holly/46/48 as one cohesive corridor...

Has the MTA's definition of "frequent route" always been 8 (i assume that actually means 7.5) minute headways? That's extremely aggressive. I've never seen a standard using less than 10. Of course if you examine it to a really high standard, no one meets that standard.

My favorite part of the report is all the places where the MTA goes, "That's not my job", especially when talking about sister agencies.

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Connections to Commuter Rail Customers want bus service to connect to many of the Long Island Rail Road stations that do not currently have bus service. For LIRR stations that do have bus service, some customers asked for better scheduling between the buses and the trains. While this is understandable, it’s likely not feasible. LIRR commuter service runs at varying headways that rarely sync up with bus service, which requires a consistent schedule to deliver reliable service to all parts of the route.

Hm, who could deliver a consistent LIRR schedule?  🤔

On 9/1/2019 at 11:14 AM, B35 via Church said:

WTF.... that couldn't be anymore false.

I think they're talking about residential+employment density, which then is technically true, since there aren't too many jobs outside of subway range and most of the places that have lots of jobs don't simultaneously have a lot of residents (few people live on Queens College or SJU themselves, or at JFK/LGA).

Of course, they ignore the giant blob that is LIJ on their report (even going so far as to omit it from the Union Tpke profile).

The statement would be true if this was about rail, but then this is the MTA so why would the LIRR and NYCT ever do something good together for the sake of customers.

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49 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

The statement would be true if this was about rail, but then this is the MTA so why would the LIRR and NYCT ever do something good together for the sake of customers.

It’s simple. Because they don't care for the riding public who utilize the services. 

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This may be a long shot but have they ever considered having an express Q10 to the Airport, similar to the old Q10A? It would operate every hour.

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2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

This may be a long shot but have they ever considered having an express Q10 to the Airport, similar to the old Q10A? It would operate every hour.

That's an extremely narrow market, something that was understood during the PBL days.

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3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

This may be a long shot but have they ever considered having an express Q10 to the Airport, similar to the old Q10A? It would operate every hour.

AirTrain serves that role.

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