Queens Existing Conditions Report Released

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

This may be a long shot but have they ever considered having an express Q10 to the Airport, similar to the old Q10A? It would operate every hour.

No they haven't....

...but how similar to the old Q10a are we talking, that would run every hour? Because if you're talking about a route that would use the Van Wyck from any significant distance in today's times to get to/from JFK, forget it

4 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I think they're talking about residential+employment density, which then is technically true, since there aren't too many jobs outside of subway range and most of the places that have lots of jobs don't simultaneously have a lot of residents (few people live on Queens College or SJU themselves, or at JFK/LGA).

Of course, they ignore the giant blob that is LIJ on their report (even going so far as to omit it from the Union Tpke profile).

The statement would be true if this was about rail, but then this is the MTA so why would the LIRR and NYCT ever do something good together for the sake of customers.

That's what I was thinking too.... But to obfuscate or to render residential density & population density as interchangeable, is flat out ignorant.... This is what we're dealing with here with the MTA.

How can you commence going on & on about long meandrous bus routes exacerbating travel times to the subway in one breath & then claim that population density is situated along subway lines.... Again,

[bobtehpanda]

23 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

This may be a long shot but have they ever considered having an express Q10 to the Airport, similar to the old Q10A? It would operate every hour.

I will never understand why enthusiasts have such a fixation on kowtowing to airport travelers, who are generally

• wealthier than the average person
• only travel occasionally
• and the type of traveling they do do is ill suited to public transport.

This is where the real airport transit travel demand comes from:

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

I will never understand why enthusiasts have such a fixation on kowtowing to airport travelers, who are generally

• wealthier than the average person
• only travel occasionally
• and the type of travelin

 

Because they're the only ones Cuomo cares about.

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I will never understand why enthusiasts have such a fixation on kowtowing to airport travelers.....

Their fixation is that of specifically trying to cater to those trying to catch flights and/or touching-down in NYC, coming off of one.... It's all predicated on a false equivalency; [clearly there is heavy demand for (fixed route) bus-to-bus travel & bus-to-subway travel city-wide] & [clearly JFK & LGA sees heavy amounts of people maneuvering within and/or between airport terminals].... However, those same masses that are flooding airport terminals, is by no way indicative of any latent demand for (fixed route) bus-to-PLANE travel (and vice versa)....

[bobtehpanda]

32 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Their fixation is that of specifically trying to cater to those trying to catch flights and/or touching-down in NYC, coming off of one.... It's all predicated on a false equivalency; [clearly there is heavy demand for (fixed route) bus-to-bus travel & bus-to-subway travel city-wide] & [clearly JFK & LGA sees heavy amounts of people maneuvering within and/or between airport terminals].... However, those same masses that are flooding airport terminals, is by no way indicative of any latent demand for (fixed route) bus-to-PLANE travel (and vice versa)....

It's also more like plane to bus to subway travel. Which is a totally ridiculous concept for anyone carrying more than a backpack or traveling in groups (could you imagine corralling children from the subway to bus to plane? The teachers doing subway field trips already have a field day as it is.)

[N6 Limited]

Quote

Connections to Commuter Rail Customers want bus service to connect to many of the Long Island Rail Road stations that do not currently have bus service. For LIRR stations that do have bus service, some customers asked for better scheduling between the buses and the trains. While this is understandable, it’s likely not feasible. LIRR commuter service runs at varying headways that rarely sync up with bus service, which requires a consistent schedule to deliver reliable service to all parts of the route.

 

On 9/7/2019 at 1:12 PM, bobtehpanda said:

Hm, who could deliver a consistent LIRR schedule?  🤔

Right, this is is what I don't like, most of those eastern Queens stations have 30 min (Port Washington Branch) - 1hr (the rest) headway off-peak, the least they can do is have some buses connect with the trains. (I hope they're not using Woodside and Jamaica as excuses). You know how many times I've arrived at Queens Village and the southbound Q27 had already passed the station, sometimes just pulling away as the train arrived? How many times there are no northbound Q27s to be found before a westbound train due at Queens Village? 

I mean, don't they realize that timely connections would increase ridership on both the bus and the LIRR? They wonder why bus ridership is declining? 

As for peak times, the trains can be on 15-20 min headway (give or take) , what riders are asking, is for the station-bound bus to arrive at the station before the train arrives, not shortly after it has left and vice versa for reverse trips. Now, we know they can't control traffic, but no one wants to get on a bus, miss the train (usually because the B/O is really slow, and the signals are poorly timed) and have to wait 18-60 mins for the next train. 

They need a system where B/Os are notified of Scheduled (preferably real time) train arrivals at upcoming stations along their routes. 

A concerted transit system goes a long way.

[NY1635]

Here are my thoughts.

Q111-Most likely terminates at Rochdale Village and Farmers Blvd

Q114-Sole Route Operating on 147th Avenue

Q85-Green Acres-Farmers/137th Ave to Jamaica Route

n1-Moved onto Mill Road and most likely terminating at Cedarhurst and Rocakway Turnpike, Finally taking it off those small streets in Valley Stream

Q9-Finally gets moved into the Lefferts Air Train Station. Same goes with Q40. 

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

Here are my thoughts.

Q111-Most likely terminates at Rochdale Village and Farmers Blvd

Q114-Sole Route Operating on 147th Avenue

Q85-Green Acres-Farmers/137th Ave to Jamaica Route

n1-Moved onto Mill Road and most likely terminating at Cedarhurst and Rocakway Turnpike, Finally taking it off those small streets in Valley Stream

Q9-Finally gets moved into the Lefferts Air Train Station. Same goes with Q40. 

Excuse my ignorance for not acquainting any services in the South Ozone Park area. However, is there a market for the Q9 and Q40 to even stretch over to the airport or even Lefferts Boulevard-AirTrain. I don’t know if it’s overkill or what.  Just let me know if I’m missing something with this.  

[DetSMART45]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:19 PM, B35 via Church said:

Their fixation is that of specifically trying to cater to those trying to catch flights and/or touching-down in NYC, coming off of one.... It's all predicated on a false equivalency; [clearly there is heavy demand for (fixed route) bus-to-bus travel & bus-to-subway travel city-wide] & [clearly JFK & LGA sees heavy amounts of people maneuvering within and/or between airport terminals].... However, those same masses that are flooding airport terminals, is by no way indicative of any latent demand for (fixed route) bus-to-PLANE travel (and vice versa)....

This exact reasoning is being applied here in Detroit, and I don't think it's flying (no pun intended). Headways have not changed since inception (weekdays 30, Saturday 40, Sunday 60), service span only adjusted with one additional trip on Saturday late night. It even had to be brought up by a SMART Board member that there were no signs or basically any mention of their new FAST service at the airport itself THREE MONTHS after it started -- BOTH terminals. (Of course, a "conversation" was to be had with the Airport Authority over this.)

Although I've caught SMART's FAST 261 only a couple of times (not going anywhere near the airport-portion of the route), both times there was plenty of air aboard -- and nobody with luggage or rolling carry-on with them. And in the times the service has been in-place, where I've driven friends to/from the airport and encountered the buses going in or out, looks like very few on board if not completely empty. Also you have to consider that around here, airport workers come from practically anywhere (even to the west around Ann Arbor) VIA CAR because any bus commute is going to be over 2 hours one way -- something not particularly an "option" in the Motor City mentality.

Edited September 11, 2019 by DetSMART45

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Excuse my ignorance for not acquainting any services in the South Ozone Park area. However, is there a market for the Q9 and Q40 to even stretch over to the airport or even Lefferts Boulevard-AirTrain. I don’t know if it’s overkill or what.  Just let me know if I’m missing something with this.  

There's long been a market to run the Q9 to the airport..... Q40 OTOH, not so much (completely different riderbase that's not seeking the airport... same gripe I have w/ those wanting the Q23 to run inside LGA).....

Mainly due to the pricey-ness of the AIRtrain & the fact that it doesn't do anything for all the airport workers in Richmond Hill & S. Ozone Park... A Q9 to the airport would go ways to remedying both, and also, quell the current phenomena that has riders taking 's to/from the Q10.... IMO, the Q9 is grossly underrated/underutilized by the MTA.

Edited September 11, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

There's long been a market to run the Q9 to the airport..... Q40 OTOH, not so much (completely different riderbase that's not seeking the airport... same gripe I have w/ those wanting the Q23 to run inside LGA).....

Mainly due to the pricey-ness of the AIRtrain & the fact that it doesn't do anything for all the airport workers in Richmond Hill & S. Ozone Park... A Q9 to the airport would remedy both, and also, quell the current phenomena that has riders taking 's to/from the Q10.... IMO, the Q9 is grossly underrated/underutilized by the MTA.

Yeh that $7.75 fare on air-train is a tragedy in its self. 

To me it’s a bit weird that Richmond Hill, So. Richmond Hill, So.Ozone Park and Ozone Park lack options for transportation to the airport. Yes, one may note that Q10 service can’t service everywhere and this whole  and  train service to the airport is complete bascura b/c u are forced to take air-train from Howard Beach, Sutphin, and or Lefferts-Aqueduct. 

Im not 100% with this but can the Q37 be some sort of a savior at least to Lefferts-AirTran along with the Q9. 

Ps: I’m partially glad that this B20 to the air-train has died down. 

[B35 via Church]

18 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Yeh that $7.75 fare on air-train is a tragedy in its self. 

To me it’s a bit weird that Richmond Hill, So. Richmond Hill, So.Ozone Park and Ozone Park lack options for transportation to the airport. Yes, one may note that Q10 service can’t service everywhere and this whole  and  train service to the airport is complete bascura b/c u are forced to take air-train from Howard Beach, Sutphin, and or Lefferts-Aqueduct. 

Im not 100% with this but can the Q37 be some sort of a savior at least to Lefferts-AirTran along with the Q9. 

Ps: I’m partially glad that this B20 to the air-train has died down. 

My belief is that the Q37 is perceived as "a Q10 that doesn't really go anywhere" by the patrons within its catchment area.... Looking at it another way, it's viewed as being largely supplemental - good to have around, just in case there's some royal f***up along Lefferts.... LOL... 

I'm not sure what can have more people patronizing it, but the casino isn't the cash cow (pun unintended) they expected it to be....

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

32 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

My belief is that the Q37 is perceived as "a Q10 that doesn't really go anywhere" by the patrons within its catchment area.... Looking at it another way, it's viewed as being largely supplemental - good to have around, just in case there's some royal f***up along Lefferts.... LOL... 

I'm not sure what can have more people patronizing it, but the casino isn't the cash cow (pun unintended) they expected it to be....

Furthermore, how many times are they going to alter the Q37's southern terminus in South Ozone Park? That thing is always bouncing back and forth from year to year it seems. Not only that, but I hated the crap 30-minute headways at night when I needed to get home from Kew Gardens.

[N6 Limited]

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Yeh that $7.75 fare on air-train is a tragedy in its self. 

To me it’s a bit weird that Richmond Hill, So. Richmond Hill, So.Ozone Park and Ozone Park lack options for transportation to the airport. Yes, one may note that Q10 service can’t service everywhere and this whole  and  train service to the airport is complete bascura b/c u are forced to take air-train from Howard Beach, Sutphin, and or Lefferts-Aqueduct. 

Im not 100% with this but can the Q37 be some sort of a savior at least to Lefferts-AirTran along with the Q9. 

Ps: I’m partially glad that this B20 to the air-train has died down. 

 

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

There's long been a market to run the Q9 to the airport..... Q40 OTOH, not so much (completely different riderbase that's not seeking the airport... same gripe I have w/ those wanting the Q23 to run inside LGA).....

Mainly due to the pricey-ness of the AIRtrain & the fact that it doesn't do anything for all the airport workers in Richmond Hill & S. Ozone Park... A Q9 to the airport would go ways to remedying both, and also, quell the current phenomena that has riders taking 's to/from the Q10.... IMO, the Q9 is grossly underrated/underutilized by the MTA.

Another thing is that, the Air Train could be used as a short cut, between Jamaica and Howard beach  but it would cost $10 (or $15.50) since you have to pay to enter and exit., they should allow a free exit within a 20-30 Min Period of entering.. Perhaps then they'd get additional riders with friends and family traveling to the airport with travelers and returning home, etc afterward.

[checkmatechamp13]

17 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Right, this is is what I don't like, most of those eastern Queens stations have 30 min (Port Washington Branch) - 1hr (the rest) headway off-peak, the least they can do is have some buses connect with the trains. (I hope they're not using Woodside and Jamaica as excuses). You know how many times I've arrived at Queens Village and the southbound Q27 had already passed the station, sometimes just pulling away as the train arrived? How many times there are no northbound Q27s to be found before a westbound train due at Queens Village? 

I mean, don't they realize that timely connections would increase ridership on both the bus and the LIRR? They wonder why bus ridership is declining? 

As for peak times, the trains can be on 15-20 min headway (give or take) , what riders are asking, is for the station-bound bus to arrive at the station before the train arrives, not shortly after it has left and vice versa for reverse trips. Now, we know they can't control traffic, but no one wants to get on a bus, miss the train (usually because the B/O is really slow, and the signals are poorly timed) and have to wait 18-60 mins for the next train. 

They need a system where B/Os are notified of Scheduled (preferably real time) train arrivals at upcoming stations along their routes. 

A concerted transit system goes a long way.

The question is, which direction do you time the connections for? On the Q27, I think the frequency of the route makes up for it, but on a less-frequent route those connections make a big difference.

If a bus route starts or ends at the station that helps (look at all the SI routes that are timed with the ferry). But a midpoint connection is pretty difficult, especially when you're timing it with trains in both directions

9 hours ago, NY1635 said:

Here are my thoughts.

Q111-Most likely terminates at Rochdale Village and Farmers Blvd

Q114-Sole Route Operating on 147th Avenue

Q85-Green Acres-Farmers/137th Ave to Jamaica Route

n1-Moved onto Mill Road and most likely terminating at Cedarhurst and Rocakway Turnpike, Finally taking it off those small streets in Valley Stream

Q9-Finally gets moved into the Lefferts Air Train Station. Same goes with Q40. 

What covers the eastern end of 147th under your plan then?

[NY1635]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The question is, which direction do you time the connections for? On the Q27, I think the frequency of the route makes up for it, but on a less-frequent route those connections make a big difference.

If a bus route starts or ends at the station that helps (look at all the SI routes that are timed with the ferry). But a midpoint connection is pretty difficult, especially when you're timing it with trains in both directions

What covers the eastern end of 147th under your plan then?

I honestly think the 85s to Rosedale will be moved to 147th while Limiteds/Green Acres Trips handle the Conduits. I personally feel that those Green Acres Patrons are holding out hope that NICE somehow serves the mall since the n1 running between Elmont and Hewlett looks too "frequent" in comparison to the 5s and 85s laying over at the Ring Road.

As for the Q27s, I've tried it before and there's usually enough gap in service past Hempstead Avenue that's possible to just go to mcDonalds, eat, and come back just in time for the bus to arrive at the stop. Really, the only people who use it at Cambria Heights are coming from Linden and Murdock.

Edited September 11, 2019 by NY1635

[N6 Limited]

5 hours ago, NY1635 said:

As for the Q27s, I've tried it before and there's usually enough gap in service past Hempstead Avenue that's possible to just go to mcDonalds, eat, and come back just in time for the bus to arrive at the stop. Really, the only people who use it at Cambria Heights are coming from Linden and Murdock.

Do you feel there would be more riders if it connected to the Q5?

[NY1635]

12 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

What covers the eastern end of 147th under your plan then?

I honestly think the Q85. I've been noticing a lot of 111s to Farmers leaving with 113/114s even though Rosedale-Jamaica thru Brewer and 147th is faster than that same trip going thru Conduit, Springfield, Merrick.  Always liked 147th/Brewer as my go to route. 

But the fam likes doing Rockaway/Sutphin because it's even faster to Jamaica.

[Union Tpke]

19 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

My belief is that the Q37 is perceived as "a Q10 that doesn't really go anywhere" by the patrons within its catchment area.... Looking at it another way, it's viewed as being largely supplemental - good to have around, just in case there's some royal f***up along Lefferts.... LOL... 

I'm not sure what can have more people patronizing it, but the casino isn't the cash cow (pun unintended) they expected it to be....

It is a supplemental route, and is useful for people near Forest Park/Park Lane South who don't want to walk through hilly Kew Gardens. I also can't see anything else to increase ridership on the route.

[Union Tpke]

18 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Furthermore, how many times are they going to alter the Q37's southern terminus in South Ozone Park? That thing is always bouncing back and forth from year to year it seems. Not only that, but I hated the crap 30-minute headways at night when I needed to get home from Kew Gardens.

It has alternated its terminus at least a dozen or more times since the 1970s. It does need better evening and weekend frequencies. A bench in the bus shelter at the Kew Gardens terminal would be great. There are always long lines for the bus.

[NY1635]

On 9/12/2019 at 12:08 AM, N6 Limited said:

Do you feel there would be more riders if it connected to the Q5?

Q5 is used more by people coming from points west trying to get to Green Acres. It's also used by n4 riders using it as an alternative to the n1 when it doesn't show up.

The n4 would get more usage on Merrick if it wasn't pushed back to the far end of the bays by 150th/Archer.

[N6 Limited]

53 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

Q5 is used more by people coming from points west trying to get to Green Acres. It's also used by n4 riders using it as an alternative to the n1 when it doesn't show up.

The n4 would get more usage on Merrick if it wasn't pushed back to the far end of the bays by 150th/Archer.

But the N4 is closed door to Hook Creek Blvd

There have been a few times where I would have liked the Q27 to connect to the Q5. Transferring to the Q77 at 120th Ave just to get down to Merrick is annoying. 

[jaf0519]

I have a feeling that the MTA wont be releasing the Draft Plan for Queens by the end of November, as they changed the project timeline chart on the site from monthly to quarterly, instead having a Q4 release date. Probably going to be early to mid-December instead.

[7-express]

1 hour ago, jaf0519 said:

I have a feeling that the MTA wont be releasing the Draft Plan for Queens by the end of November, as they changed the project timeline chart on the site from monthly to quarterly, instead having a Q4 release date. Probably going to be early to mid-December instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they released it over the holidays so fewer people will notice after all the flak they're getting for the Bronx.

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

I'm sure there's gonna be plenty of cuts to express buses outside of the AM and PM peak periods.  I wish the MTA would consider running downtown express buses up Pike Slip to the Williamsburg bridge to the BQE for the PM runs back to Queens.  I've been looking at traffic over the past few weeks and the BQE northbound is surprisingly not bad.  It would save some time and avoid drivers having to take the upper road on the LIE which is always slower than the lower roadway.