Queens Existing Conditions Report Released

[Union Tpke]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Has anybody else noticed how the M60 ends at the entrance to the Grand Central Parkway?

Other routes are on top so you cannot see the rest to LGA.

[Union Tpke]

The Q4 is being extended to meet up with the N1.

[limitednyc]

if the q20 in disappearing whats going to be the lcl on main street?

[Union Tpke]

20 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

if the q20 in disappearing whats going to be the lcl on main street?

is being rerouted in College Point and will head to Kew Gardens via the old Q74.

[limitednyc]

2 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

is being rerouted in College Point and will head to Kew Gardens via the old Q74.

where is the new college point terminal  be , will it still basically be a q44 lcl?

[Union Tpke]

Just now, limitednyc said:

where is the new college point terminal  be , will it still basically be a q44 lcl?

Francis Lewis and Willets Point Blvds.

[limitednyc]

how is it going to run through flushing

and will it still run on main to get to queens college [q74]

Edited December 20, 2019 by limitednyc

[jaf0519]

4 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

how is it going to run through flushing

 

It’s going to follow the current Q25 to 130 St and 23 Ave and then continue up 130 St to 20 Ave and head right on 20th to Francis Lewis. 

I personally think that the Q20 will be ending in Flushing and the Francis Lewis bus will be following this route to Flushing to connect with the 7, but the map isn’t too clear.

Edited December 20, 2019 by jaf0519

[NY1635]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

The Q4 is being extended to meet up with the N1.

The only layover spot for buses in the area is Elmont Road at Hempstead Turnpike. Elmont Road is considered a dangerous roadway because motorists speed along the stretch between Linden and Hempstead Turnpike and causing accidents. IIRC, a few residents living off Linden and Stuart opt to walk over to 234th Street to catch the Q4 bus. They do not like the n1 because they never see it or don't know when it runs.

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

If that's the case, that's even worse and would negatively impact so many more people, since now nobody in that general area can get to Jackson Heights, nor can they access the express trains (and have to rely solely on the  ). Truncating the Q53 at Queens Blvd (if it actually is the proposal) would also do such a disservice for people who get on the bus at Elmhurst and Grand Avenues going south of Hoffman Drive (of which there are a lot). 

11 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Yeah those Q53 buses are packed along Broadway especially during the weekends when the  is going express in one direction. There are so many people to my surprise along Woodhaven Blvd that ride the Q53 along Broadway so if they cut Broadway service then the MTA is more out of touch then ever.

Yeah, the problem isn't so much connecting Woodhaven (blvd) riders to Jackson Hgts., as much as it is that such a route doesn't have to emanate from the Rockaways.... If you want to break up the Q53, all you really have to do is have [a route running from Rockaway Blvd to Woodside ] & [another route running from Rockaway Park to QCM]..... You're going to need overlap between QCM & Liberty - the Q52 provides that, but it's a poor allocation of resources, since 1] people are STILL taking Q22's to Q53's & 2] those east of the Hammels Wye are the ones with consistent service throughout the day, unlike those west of the wye.....

Really, all they had to do was add more service to the Q53 & then determine which trips would run the full distance to Woodside & which would short turn at QCM.... The Arverne hype was bought in to & now look at what its gotten them - suggesting running it to Brooklyn Gateway Mall instead......

11 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The problem that I have with the Q53 currently is that it is the most frequent route out of the 4 that travel along Woodhaven and it is also the one with the worst reliability. The Q11/Q21 is a joke and an afterthought it is not even funny. I don’t even understand the logic of having them run on half an hour headway on the weekend and the Q21 runs 5 minutes after the Q11. That’s why they aren’t utilized so well. Instead I would have them even timed so a local bus can come ever 15 minutes even though I think it should be more frequent than that given how poorly the Q53 runs. And the Q52 while it does get more love than the Q11/Q21 it just isn’t frequent enough itself to help the Q53 which is why we have the issues we have today with the Woodhaven routes.

So honestly what I would do is eliminate the Q21. Make the Q11 more frequent where people would want to use it. If they want to get rid of the Q53 along Broadway fine. However I would also get rid of the Rockaway portion of the Q52 and have the Q52 end either at 163rd Ave or Rockaway Blvd. The Q52 would instead be the one to serve Broadway and run up to Woodhaven of course with more frequent headway’s. I would however be more in favor of another route running from Beach 54th to Rockaway Blvd, and just having the Q11 and Q53 alone on Woodhaven like old times. That way the MTA would have no choice but to boost Q11 service to compensate for the elimination of the Q21 and Q52 and the Q53 could have short turns that end at Queens Blvd and head back down to Rockaway.

That's the exact problem I have with the Q53 & why I was as vociferous as I was when they came out with the Q52.... The Q53 is the most frequent on paper, but it bunches more than the Q52 does - making it less reliable than the Q52..... Again, they took away service from Rockaway Park riders & gave it to Arverne riders, with the portrayal being that both sides of the wye are equally served with a Woodhaven SBS route.... The demand wasn't even latent, it was practically non-existent.... You didn't need to "QM16/QM17" the Q53, all you had to do was dedicate some amount of Q53's to short turning at QCM....

Looking at this map, I can't discern what's going on with the Woodhaven blvd. locals.... What I will say is, that it's to the point now where the Q52/53 is so prevalent along Woodhaven, that the locals are almost complete afterthoughts...... I hate to admit this, but the Q11 past Pitkin SB carried a shit ton of air & would not be surprised if they eventually relegate service to Old Howard Beach to that of a coverage route running back & forth from Rockaway Park .... As for Lindenwood/Howard Beach service, suggesting running a route along 84th st with no connection to Cross Bay until 164th is just devoid of reality....  The problem with the Q21/41 aren't their stints on Cross Bay, it's the fact that there's no feasible turnaround exists once you hit the end of "mainland" Queens down there....

I would like to bring things back to where the Q11 was the lone Woodhaven local & the Q53 was the lone Woodhaven LTD (now SBS) service also.... But at the same time, I would run the Woodhaven local from Hoffman drive, via Lindenwood, to Cross Bay /(163rd or 164th) - instead of terminating the Woodhaven local in Old Howard Beach or Hamilton Beach....

4 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I heard from Subchat that the Q111 to Cedarhurst is gone, but it's shown still in Nassau presumably going to Hewlett at Broadway/Sheridan based on the screenshot of the map.

3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I was going to say that I found the map in this thread and looked at it. Hewlett at Grant Park is the only location that I can think of that would be used as a layover spot for buses since it's right in near a Police Station. Hewlett Broadway is also used as a transfer point between the n1 and n31/32.

Still trying to figure out why the map shows the Q88 going to Great Neck Plaza to serve North Shore University Hospital.

That's all well & good, but the Q111 still isn't illustrated on the map as going to Nassau county.... There is zero need for it to run to some police station in Hewlett.

There's nothing shown as running to Great Neck Plaza.... The Q88 looks like it's being sent over to St. Francis Prep. (Francis Lewis/HHE) to terminate....

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

One thing that I'm just realizing is based on that map, the Q49 would be eliminated. That's sure as hell not going to fly by.

The 35th Avenue portion is, but the 90th Street portion is being rerouted to connect straight to the and also to the Elmhurst Avenue station

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

The Q8 extension to Brookdale Hospital are for the workers, many of whom are doing double shifts to make the rent money. The Q8 will provide them a direct one seat ride into Jamaica since many of them don't have a car.

Dude, just fall back with the dumb shit... You talk stupid.

3 hours ago, SubBus said:

I'm trying to see how my former routes in Queens (Q3, 77, 111, 113, and 114) are affected....

From the looks of it:

Q3: Basically phased out.... Service north of Liberty eliminated... Service south of Liberty taken over with a diverted Q83 to JFK....

Q77:  Basically phased out.... Springfield blvd portion of the route broken up into a Springfield Blvd route that runs to Ft. Totten..... Francis Lewis portion of the route broken up into a Francis Lewis route that runs to (at least) Clearview.... Nothing turns off Francis Lewis at Hillside....

Q111:  Can't really tell what's going down on the Jamaica end, but on the Rosedale end, they're running it down to the end of Hook Creek there.... More or less left alone.

Q113:  Can't really tell what's going down on the Jamaica end, but on the Far Rockaway end, service east of Beach 19th is eliminated... Basically, after it hits Far Rockaway , it parallels the Q22 to Wavecrest Gardens, where the Q113 will still terminate....  Save for the Far Rockaway end of the route, it's more or less left alone....

Q114: Basically phased out... The unique portion of the route between Mott/Rockaway Tpk. & Far Rockaway is being replaced with an extended Q22....

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

One thing that I'm just realizing is based on that map, the Q49 would be eliminated. That's sure as hell not going to fly by.

Nah, there's definitely something illustrated between the Q33 & the Q72.... It's running down to Broadway, instead of cutting back across to serve Moore Terminal.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The 35th Avenue portion is, but the 90th Street portion is being rerouted to connect straight to the and also to the Elmhurst Avenue station

While that is true, that plan itself is straight up retarded. The vast majoritt are going towards 74th Street for the subway connections or the area itself, not the areas around 90th Street or Elmhurst Avenue. It's bad enough that the Q33 would no longer go to 74th Street either. That part of Jackson Heights would no longer have access to an ADA station, destinations around the 74th Street area, direct connections to the QBL express, and it's being replaced with a connection to the . 

Also, it makes no sense to eliminate that portion of the Q49, but then come up with an entire 73rd Avenue route (with much of 73rd Ave being just as close or closer to Union Turnpike than 35th Ave is to Roosevelt or Northern). 

Edited December 20, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

26 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

While that is true, that plan itself is straight up retarded. The vast majoritt are going towards 74th Street for the subway connections or the area itself, not the areas around 90th Street or Elmhurst Avenue. It's bad enough that the Q33 would no longer go to 74th Street either. That part of Jackson Heights would no longer have access to an ADA station, destinations around the 74th Street area, direct connections to the QBL express, and it's being replaced with a connection to the . 

Also, it makes no sense to eliminate that portion of the Q49, but then come up with an entire 73rd Avenue route (with much of 73rd Ave being just as close or closer to Union Turnpike than 35th Ave is to Roosevelt or Northern). 

One of the things they discussed in the Bronx redesign was bus-on-bus congestion, where multiple routes share a corridor. I would imagine they are trying to alleviate some of that at the Victor Moore Terminal and having riders traveling to that portion of East Elmhurst catch the bus at a different stop. 

The other thing to consider is how the surrounding routes will both impact and be impacted by this change (If all you can get to on the Q33 & Q49 are local stations on either the Flushing or Queens Blvd Line, how many people will decide to take the Q19 to 31st Street or the Q66 to Broadway and catch the subway there, and how will frequencies on those routes change?)

Also, as part of the 2020-2024 capital plan, Northern Blvd on the is going to be ADA-accessible (Astoria Blvd is going to be once they finish the renovations)

Edited December 20, 2019 by checkmatechamp13

[Train92]

Is there a list of proposed changes? I dont really understand the map that well.

[checkmatechamp13]

4 minutes ago, Train92 said:

Is there a list of proposed changes? I dont really understand the map that well.

Will be released December 30th

[B35 via Church]

26 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

While that is true, that plan itself is straight up retarded. The vast majoritt are going towards 74th Street for the subway connections or the area itself, not the areas around 90th Street or Elmhurst Avenue. It's bad enough that the Q33 would no longer go to 74th Street either. That part of Jackson Heights would no longer have access to an ADA station, destinations around the 74th Street area, direct connections to the QBL express, and it's being replaced with a connection to the . 

Also, it makes no sense to eliminate that portion of the Q49, but then come up with an entire 73rd Avenue route (with much of 73rd Ave being just as close or closer to Union Turnpike than 35th Ave is to Roosevelt or Northern). 

Trying to form a grid based network out of Queens' bus system is straight up retarded.... This is what you get.... This is why I generally don't care much for grid networks & have always said that "straighter does not necessarily mean better" - Grid networks are more about completing the network as a whole (they can't even get that part of it right) & less about the individual routes that comprise the network.... I'd rather have a feeder based network{s} or a hub/spoke based network{s} over a grid based network any day of the week..... It requires one to know more about the "parts", instead of the "sum of those parts"....

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Trying to form a grid based network out of Queens' bus system is straight up retarded.... This is what you get.... This is why I generally don't care much for grid networks & have always said that "straighter does not necessarily mean better" - Grid networks are more about completing the network as a whole (they can't even get that part of it right) & less about the individual routes that comprise the network.... I'd rather have a feeder based network{s} or a hub/spoke based network{s} over a grid based network any day of the week..... It requires one to know more about the "parts", instead of the "sum of those parts"....

@B35 via Church, I've been wanting to ask, what are your thoughts on demographic travel patterns in Queens relative to a bus route's overall effectiveness? For example, consider the proposed route travelling primarily along Springfield Boulevard to Fort Totten. I can be wrong, but I don't think residents from Queens Village and Cambria Heights in the proximity of Springfield Boulevard will be seeking destinations north of Queensborough Community College with regularity. I say this because I used the Q27 to get to class at QCC for a few years and most of the passengers who boarded the bus south of Union Turnpike were off by the time we reached the college, where a new ridership base was regenerated - students seeking Flushing and the . With the proposal severing this connection with Flushing, I don't know if the ridership will be sufficient enough to go through with the route alteration.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

@B35 via Church, I've been wanting to ask, what are your thoughts on demographic travel patterns in Queens relative to a bus route's overall effectiveness? For example, consider the proposed route travelling primarily along Springfield Boulevard to Fort Totten. I can be wrong, but I don't think residents from Queens Village and Cambria Heights in the proximity of Springfield Boulevard will be seeking destinations north of Queensborough Community College with regularity. I say this because I used the Q27 to get to class at QCC for a few years and most of the passengers who boarded the bus south of Union Turnpike were off by the time we reached the college, where a new ridership base was regenerated - students seeking Flushing and the . With the proposal severing this connection with Flushing, I don't know if the ridership will be sufficient enough to go through with the route alteration.

I'll put it like this.... There's nothing necessarily wrong with a route having two (or more) distinct segments along its course, that benefits multiple ethnicities of people within each segment... I'm not saying that as some sort of corny PC answer, as to not ruffle feathers or something either.... Hell, the B35 itself has Church av as an unofficial demarcation point, where you'll see very little Hispanics & Middle Easterners riding past it due east (although it's not AS apparent than it used to be, but generally speaking, it's still the case).... You just won't see too many Black people taking B6's west of CI av..... I can go on & on with the examples, but in any case, it is what it is.....

That's not to undermine the point though, as demographics absolutely play a significant enough role in a route's effectiveness.... The issue with the proposed Francis Lewis route & the proposed Springfield route should be quite obvious, regardless of demographics.... Those two routes FWIW are connecting residential areas to other residential areas, instead of connecting residential areas on either end of the route to some common major mutual ridership generator or point of interest (like, a subway station or a mall)....

Both of those routes, if implemented, will end up failing miserably, especially that Francis Lewis one.... The main draw for the Q27 is Flushing, with QCC being a distant secondary draw.... The main draw for the Q76 due south & the Q77 due north, is Jamaica proper...... Forcing xfers all over the place is the absolute opposite of what an adequately useful & beneficial bus system is supposed to be.....

You have every right to doubt the effectiveness of these drawn out NE Queens to SE Queens routes....

[Mtatransit]

Q49 down 90th? Last time I checked 35th Ave consits of a significant portion of that routes ridership. 

Most of the routes in that area with the expection of the Q66 serve primarily people who transfer from the subway.

 

The Q32 however I can see it go from 74th to 81 St. I never understood why it still did that

[SubBus]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Dude, just fall back with the dumb shit... You talk stupid.

From the looks of it:

Q3: Basically phased out.... Service north of Liberty eliminated... Service south of Liberty taken over with a diverted Q83 to JFK....

Q77:  Basically phased out.... Springfield blvd portion of the route broken up into a Springfield Blvd route that runs to Ft. Totten..... Francis Lewis portion of the route broken up into a Francis Lewis route that runs to (at least) Clearview.... Nothing turns off Francis Lewis at Hillside....

Q111:  Can't really tell what's going down on the Jamaica end, but on the Rosedale end, they're running it down to the end of Hook Creek there.... More or less left alone.

Q113:  Can't really tell what's going down on the Jamaica end, but on the Far Rockaway end, service east of Beach 19th is eliminated... Basically, after it hits Far Rockaway , it parallels the Q22 to Wavecrest Gardens, where the Q113 will still terminate....  Save for the Far Rockaway end of the route, it's more or less left alone....

Q114: Basically phased out... The unique portion of the route between Mott/Rockaway Tpk. & Far Rockaway is being replaced with an extended Q22....

Nah, there's definitely something illustrated between the Q33 & the Q72.... It's running down to Broadway, instead of cutting back across to serve Moore Terminal.....

Thanks bro.  Appreciate it.  Hate to see what they do to my former routes in Brooklyn...

Edited December 21, 2019 by SubBus

[Q43LTD]

Just looked at that screen shot. Excuse me while I retch

[NewFlyer 230]

5 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Q49 down 90th? Last time I checked 35th Ave consits of a significant portion of that routes ridership. 

Most of the routes in that area with the expection of the Q66 serve primarily people who transfer from the subway.

 

The Q32 however I can see it go from 74th to 81 St. I never understood why it still did that

Well I knew they were going to cut the Q32 back. East of Roosevelt & 74th street it was basically a Q33 short turn via 81st to Northern Blvd and it was unreliable due to its length. I’m surprised it took them this long to consider cutting it back. 

[LTA1992]

Random question, but how many of you read Human Transit by Jarrett Walker?

It answers many of the questions I see here.

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, SubBus said:

Thanks bro.  Appreciate it.  Hate to see what they do to my former routes in Brooklyn...

No prollem.

Yeah, I'm just ecstatic to see how they're gonna f*** up Brooklyn..... Particularly waiting for the B35 to JFK BS..... *smirks*

3 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Just looked at that screen shot. Excuse me while I retch

Clean up in aisle

8 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Q49 down 90th? Last time I checked 35th Ave consits of a significant portion of that routes ridership. 

Most of the routes in that area with the expection of the Q66 serve primarily people who transfer from the subway.

The Q32 however I can see it go from 74th to 81 St. I never understood why it still did that

2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Well I knew they were going to cut the Q32 back. East of Roosevelt & 74th street it was basically a Q33 short turn via 81st to Northern Blvd and it was unreliable due to its length. I’m surprised it took them this long to consider cutting it back. 

to MTAtransit: Q49 is one of the most efficient routes in the entire city.... Of course, it goes against the grid, so there goes that....

to the both of you: IDK the history of the Q32 as to why it particularly swung over to the 80's to get to Northern, but in today's time, it is rather redundant.... Looking at this map though, I can't tell what's going on with the Q32... One thing I will say is that they have *something* continuing straight along Thomson from Queens Blvd....