Original Archer Service Plan N/G to Jamaica Center, G shuttle to Van Wyck Blvd late nights

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The Jackie Robinson and Union Turnpike run alongside each other under Queens Blvd.

So take this with a grain of salt because there isn't much about what those exits were used for, but I've heard (and believe) that those used to be inline bus stops.

It'd be nice if the MTA, if it ever builds subways out past the current ends of lines in the outer borough, could build transfer facilities that involved buses within fare control.

They were never used for buses. A study in the 1980s or 1990s did look at it for transfers. I will link it if I can find it again.

6 hours ago, P3F said:

I'm not sure where I read this, maybe Wikipedia, but apparently those exits used to be car drop-off areas; they were closed due to the delays caused by cars merging back onto the road.

In theory, it wouldn't be too complicated to convert the westbound one into a bus stop. It's hard to judge size from Google Street View, but you could probably fit 2 to 4 buses into the area, arranged into bays. Q46 buses would pull in, drop off, pick up, and then pull out. Then, turn onto the other side of Union Turnpike at Park Lane, stop at the Q37 stop for bus connections, and continue along the normal route.

In practice, it is doubtful the underground area could contain enough buses to make this operation work well, given the Q46's frequency.

Correct, they were used for car drop-offs, and I added that to Wikipedia. You cannot fit two to four buses there. It is cramped and there will be accidents. It would be nice to have though.

[bobtehpanda]

5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

They were never used for buses. A study in the 1980s or 1990s did look at it for transfers. I will link it if I can find it again.

Correct, they were used for car drop-offs, and I added that to Wikipedia. You cannot fit two to four buses there. It is cramped and there will be accidents. It would be nice to have though.

Just make it like the 14th street busway, and local Union Tpke traffic has to cross Queens Blvd at grade

[Union Tpke]

53 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Just make it like the 14th street busway, and local Union Tpke traffic has to cross Queens Blvd at grade

That is what should be done. Until about five years ago, cars couldn't cross Queens Boulevard at grade in the eastbound direction. You still cannot do this westbound.

[P3F]

2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

That is what should be done. Until about five years ago, cars couldn't cross Queens Boulevard at grade in the eastbound direction. You still cannot do this westbound.

Dedicating four lanes to a single bus route would be quite excessive. A single bus lane (westbound) would solve the merging issue. Have it be active during PM rush hour and maybe AM rush & middays if traffic conditions warrant it.

Part of the benefit of the underpass is that Union Turnpike thru-traffic doesn't deal with any pedestrians. Forcing all cars to cross Queens Blvd. at grade would cause unnecessary congestion and potential car-pedestrian conflicts.

Edited March 19, 2020 by P3F

[bobtehpanda]

5 hours ago, P3F said:

Dedicating four lanes to a single bus route would be quite excessive. A single bus lane (westbound) would solve the merging issue. Have it be active during PM rush hour and maybe AM rush & middays if traffic conditions warrant it.

Part of the benefit of the underpass is that Union Turnpike thru-traffic doesn't deal with any pedestrians. Forcing all cars to cross Queens Blvd. at grade would cause unnecessary congestion and potential car-pedestrian conflicts.

Westbound, there are no pedestrian conflicts, because there is no pedestrian crossing between the westbound side of Union Turnpike, or any crossing at all, for that matter.

Eastbound, there are conflicts anyways, because you can already travel thru eastbound, and in any case left turns are not prohibited from Queens Blvd to Union Tpke.

Union Tpke east of the interchange and west of it is only two moving lanes in either direction. It is the same west of the Jackie Robinson. The three turn lanes and two underpass lanes are what's overkill, since it's not like there's capacity on either side for those lanes to ever be fully utilized.

Edited March 20, 2020 by bobtehpanda

[P3F]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Westbound, there are no pedestrian conflicts, because there is no pedestrian crossing between the westbound side of Union Turnpike, or any crossing at all, for that matter.

Eastbound, there are conflicts anyways, because you can already travel thru eastbound, and in any case left turns are not prohibited from Queens Blvd to Union Tpke.

Union Tpke east of the interchange and west of it is only two moving lanes in either direction. It is the same west of the Jackie Robinson. The three turn lanes and two underpass lanes are what's overkill, since it's not like there's capacity on either side for those lanes to ever be fully utilized.

I don't mean pedestrian conflicts in the specific way of turning cars having to give way to pedestrians. At a broader scope, funneling more cars through an at grade intersection creates a higher probability of a crash with a pedestrian, than if the same cars were bypassing the intersection. It's why you never hear of pedestrians getting hit by cars on the Belt Parkway -- there aren't any opportunities for such a conflict to happen.

Sure, Union Turnpike east of the interchange may be two lanes in each direction, but there are also the highway ramps which add two lanes (and are well utilized). I also don't see what's wrong with the turn lanes. Three of them might look excessive on a map, but if they get filled up during rush hours, they are serving their purpose.