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Mpn4179

Update on the Release of the Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan

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6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'll quote it again.

Sounds like trash talk to me.

Can't be too high. It's still running every 20 minutes for most of the day, which is generally considered coverage-level headways or just short of them (30 is usually the maximum headway the MTA runs during daytime hours for local routes)

Next time at least quote the correct person you’re talking about. Nobody is trashing the subway. Your comment is way off base. 

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On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:39 PM, RR503 said:

....It's worth noting that, even today, the scheduled running time of the BxM7 from Dreiser to 51 St is almost exactly equal to the time one achieves w/ the <6>

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:59 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

....As for your last point, that only works on a good day. Let's be honest, with how terrible local bus and subway service is, how many days of the year does this realistically apply to?

16 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't agree with the BxM7 service reductions but let's not pretend the traffic situation on the Bruckner is nice and peachy, and let's also not pretend like the subway and local bus are this insanely unreliable system that never works.

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Co-Op City is a two fare zone (at least prior to the Metrocard) anyway, not to mention that there are many seniors in the neighborhood that rely on the express buses, in addition to the subway not serving the same areas as the BxM7 does.

15 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I was stating a fact, that traffic along the BxM7 route has its own issues. There's no need to trash talk the subway and local bus in order to prove that the express bus service is needed. 

15 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Who is "trashing" the subway when Co-Op City doesn't have one to begin with? <_< 

 

 

 

 

 

Relevant chain of events, FWIW......

Way I see it, RR503's statement there, only illustrates to me that the BxM7 is at the very least, competitive with (whatever bus to get to PBP), to then take the <6> from PBP to the general vicinity around 51st or whatever.... It being competitive, is more or less VG8's point, which is where I'm completely on par with him..... That's all that really needed to be said AFAIC....

But be there as it may, while I agree with both BM5's & Checkmate's general sentiments, I think they both went too far to make their points..... BM5's rebuttal to RR503's comment, to me, was superfluous (the notion of the local bus & the subway being sub-par, or however you want to categorize it, was rather unnecessary) & Checkmate's rebuttal to BM5's comment, to me, was a bit of an overstatement (I don't get the sense that BM5 was trying to make that stark of a contrast between the [ (express bus) & (the local bus/subway) ])...

IDK, it is what it is.....

Edited by B35 via Church
split post....
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11 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Yep! Just noticed that the 11 and the 35 swap terminals.

The 11 to Parkchester doesn't sound too bad either..

*artic conversion alert*

Can't see that happening on 5-6 min. peak headways on that route.... I don't think it would be necessary, even if headways were higher....

In terms of long distance travel anyway, especially now that the Bx36 has been straightened, Parkchester riders aren't going to give up on it in any significant numbers for the new Bx11 (remember, the Bx36 still has LTD service).... The Bx11 will inherit the riders along/around 174th from off the (soon to be old) Bx36, which will only make that route slower..... Hell, I think they could've made the Bx36/LTD even more quicker by having it parallel the Q44 routing b/w Boston rd. & White Plains rd., instead of having it continue on E. Tremont, to White Plains rd....

If push came to shove, I would have rather had [the (current rendition of the) Bx36 cutback to Parkchester & the Bx11 staying put at West Farms/Westchester], over [the Bx36 straightened along Tremont, to WPR, etc. & the Bx11 extended to Parkchester].... I don't so much mind the Bx11 taking over 174th as much as I do having Bx40's/42's taking over 180th.... I just see those people along 180th trekking/gravitating to the Bx36 anyway.... But as with anything, let's see how this all plays out.....

 

3 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Indeed. I definitely get it objectively I think the hard balance is access to the holistic view for most people even for me as I become more of a civilian away from the day to day the planning and transportation industry sometimes I have to catch myself from thinking about it from my personal point of view that's naturally what we base our opinions off. I think the way forward is providing the data and information followed by context

I had a quick chat yesterday with folks from the CB guess how many of them knew how subsidized express bus service is? When asked if the MTA provided ridership or headcount data to support the service cuts no response. So my question was if we don't know how many people are riding the 5:30 PM out of Co-Op how do you justify it? Too many people don't understand the process and too many people in the process aren't educating. We have to do better to take the mystery and superstition out of the process IMO Especially if in reality, it's data mixed with cause-and-effect

Which is where incompetence comes into play.... If they don't know how many people are typically on a 5:30 pm out of Co-Op (using that example), then why in the world would these be the same people that we (the riding public) are supposed to have faith in doing what's best for said riding public, with said data? Lol....

I'm a numbers guy too, but it means d**k if you don't know what to do with them.

Edited by B35 via Church

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5 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Can't see that happening on 5-6 min. peak headways on that route.... I don't think it would be necessary, even if headways were higher....

In terms of long distance travel anyway, especially now that the Bx36 has been straightened, Parkchester riders aren't going to give up on it in any significant numbers for the new Bx11 (remember, the Bx36 still has LTD service).... The Bx11 will inherit the riders along/around 174th from off the (soon to be old) Bx36, which will only make that route slower..... Hell, I think they could've made the Bx36/LTD even more quicker by having it parallel the Q44 routing b/w Boston rd. & White Plains rd., instead of having it continue on E. Tremont, to White Plains rd....

If push came to shove, I would have rather had [the (current rendition of the) Bx36 cutback to Parkchester & the Bx11 staying put at West Farms/Westchester], over [the Bx36 straightened along Tremont, to WPR, etc. & the Bx11 extended to Parkchester].... I don't so much mind the Bx11 taking over 174th as much as I do having Bx40's/42's taking over 180th.... I just see those people along 180th trekking/gravitating to the Bx36 anyway.... But as with anything, let's see how this all plays out.....

 

Planners did a good job strengthening the Bx36 along East Tremont. Although the preferred crosstown is the 40/42. So for a good stretch of Tremont is now the Bx36 which loses access to 180th. I want to see how the 40/42 does on 180th. 

As far as the 11 is concerned. It’s okay on paper but I would hope the end result is good now it’s about to get 24 hour service..

I kinda don’t like the 11 and the 35 swapping terminals tho. I personally think those 2 could of been left alone. But, I’m not in The Bronx very often to observe that. But from my experience on a some bus lines including the 40/42, 39, 27, 12/12SBS, 22, 5, 9, 11,36, 35, old Bx55, and the Co-op City lines. The planners did OKAY at best. 

PS: The Bx55 should came from the dead like the 25 did. 

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Which is where incompetence comes into play.... If they don't know how many people are typically on a 5:30 pm out of Co-Op (using that example), then why in the world would these be the same people that we (the riding public) are supposed to have faith in doing what's best for said riding public, with said data? Lol....

I'm a numbers guy too, but it means d**k if you don't know what to do with them.

Listen Im with you. The point is accountability has to come in somewhere if I'm making a change and telling you why am making the change it's on you to make the counter argument and point out the flaws. On further inspection of the schedule and noticing that there are buses in both directions on the Weekend as opposed to weekdays tells me that the MTA based that off of some data. The question then is did the MTA provide Data to the elected officials to give them context to how and why they made the change or did the community officials know the correct questions to ask the MTA to the understand the reason of the cut. The answer I have no clue but the fact no one had any further understanding or a logical counter besides a emotional one was abit surprising.  The data and numbers is the only thing you can measure 8/10 In any hierarchal structure the person at the top has no idea what to do with the numbers However it's someone's job to make those numbers into a story and to help those who don't know understand. So when you have elected officials that don't know the right questions to ask or planners and engineers who aren't that great talking to people or communicating you have a problem. Somebody has to bridge that gap.

Edited by RailRunRob

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3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Planners did a good job strengthening the Bx36 along East Tremont. Although the preferred crosstown is the 40/42. So for a good stretch of Tremont is now the Bx36 which loses access to 180th. I want to see how the 40/42 does on 180th. 

As far as the 11 is concerned. It’s okay on paper but I would hope the end result is good now it’s about to get 24 hour service..

I kinda don’t like the 11 and the 35 swapping terminals tho. I personally think those 2 could of been left alone. But, I’m not in The Bronx very often to observe that. But from my experience on a some bus lines including the 40/42, 39, 27, 12/12SBS, 22, 5, 9, 11,36, 35, old Bx55, and the Co-op City lines. The planners did OKAY at best. 

PS: The Bx55 should came from the dead like the 25 did. 

All things considered, I'm just glad they kept basic east-west coverage in that pocket of Crotona Park East - even if it meant running the Bx35 up those few blocks... They could have easily extended the Bx11 to Parkchester & left the Bx35 at West Farms/Westchester.... In any case, being that both of those aforementioned routes will no longer terminate at West Farms/Westchester, maybe they'll have Bx5's layover with the Bx27 (instead of along Westchester av, in front either of the Bx4/4a stops)....

I'm not going to lie though... I'm surprised they reverted the Bx25 (not really sure what to make of it, however).....

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

Listen Im with you. The point is accountability has to come in somewhere if I'm making a change and telling you why am making the change it's on you to make the counter argument and point out the flaws. On further inspection of the schedule and noticing that there are buses in both directions on the Weekend as opposed to weekdays tells me that the MTA based that off of some data. The question then is did the MTA provide Data to the elected officials to give them context to how and why made the change or did the community officials know the correct questions to ask the MTA to the understand the reason of the cut. The answer I have no clue but the fact no one had any further understanding or a logical counter besides a emotional one was abit surprising.  The data and numbers is the only thing you can measure 8/10 In any hierarchal structure the person at the top has no idea what to do with the numbers However it's someone's job to make those numbers into a story and to help those who don't know understand. So when you have elected officials that don't know the right questions to ask or planners and engineers who aren't that great talking to people or communicating you have a problem. Somebody has to bridge that gap.

My point of contention is that the MTA does not have the riding public's best interest at hand.... I don't think you're going against what I'm saying at all & there is no disagreement on my end with how you're stating an ultimate conclusion should be formed.... I'm all for the scientific method :lol:....

You mention pointing out flaws - well, the argument can be made that there aren't near as many NY-ers voicing their opinions (for whatever their reasons), which I concur with.... At the same time, I don't see it as a sort of catch-22 (which is how some people may view the whole thing) because the MTA primarily provides service based on whatever ulterior motives they've got cooking, instead of having a sincere yearning to satisfy the riding public (well, as much as they can anyway)..... We have every right to hold their feet to fire (or at least try to) & remain skeptical of each & every move they make..... I'd like for the relationship (or whatever you want to call it) between the MTA brass & the riding public to be a little less, well... despotic (especially under the guise of having the riding public believe that our voices, well... matter), but I've all but completely lost faith & patience that any bridging of any gap will take place, in regards to any communication of sorts.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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11 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

because the MTA primarily provides service based on whatever ulterior motives they've got cooking, instead of having a sincere yearning to satisfy the riding public (well, as much as they can anyway)..... We have every right to hold their feet to fire (or at least try to) & remain skeptical of each & every move they make..... I'd like for the relationship (or whatever you want to call it) between the MTA brass & the riding public to be a little less, well... despotic (especially under the guise of having the riding public believe that our voices, well... matter), but I've all but completely lost faith & patience that any bridging of any gap will take place.....

Yeah I don't disagree absolutely need to hold the MTA accountable. I've been a little naïve in the past definitely seeing more and more questionable stuff.

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10 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Seriously, show me what was "trash talk". You may be content and maybe even encourage with making multiple transfers (including/bus transfers) but it doesn't work when the buses don't have the frequency of SI express buses (at the very least), and when the subway service is unreliable. This statement comes off baseless at best, just for the sake of doing so.

Absolutely no one here said anything about express buses coasting on the Bruckner or this grandiose walk in the park or whatnot. I may be wrong, but if I said that, quote what I said that states that. We're all aware of the problems on the expressways, and it goes without saying, since all the express bus routes encounter some form of traffic problem on the expressways. Even with the highway traffic, the BxM7 is still a better option over the (6) (and especially the (5) ) to/from Midtown and even the Upper East Side, more so during the AM. 

The Lexington Avenue line is terrible to rely on. There's problems almost every single day, and you can look through their Twitter account to see all the different service changes, all which delay every service running up and down the trunk. Even a relatively innocent service change creates chaos at times because of the amount of trains, and the amount of people. It's not an exaggeration, I've seen it happen before while on the Lex, and I'm sure a number of others can also attest to that. At some point during the week, you'll be stuck in some sort of problem on any of those services.

Then you have to transfer to a local bus to continue on from the subway. Pelham Bay has better availability, but outside of the rush, buses tend to not show up very frequent, even with the routes there. You're waiting, and if you're lucky, you'll catch the bus very quickly. During the rush, there's an issue of traffic and potential bunching. 

I take the Lexington Avenue Line every weekday (albeit in the opposite direction since I live on Staten Island). Is it 100% reliable? No, but it isn't this huge catastrophe that some people make it out to be. And it's definitely more reliable than the SIM4 portion of my commute, especially in the AM (the buses show up frequently, but its the issues on the highway that screw it up).

Again, I'm not saying that the subway and local bus (both in general and for a Co-Op City-Manhattan commute) don't have their issues, and I absolutely agree that the BxM7 should remain with the span of service it has now (or possibly even increased to 24/7). And yes, I do agree that there are times when an incident on the Lexington Avenue Line will cause a delay so severe that the express bus will be significantly faster for that particular trip, and it is important to have alternatives. But to say "how many days of the year does this realistically apply to?" (implying that the local bus to the (6) being time-competitive with the BxM7 is some kind of rarity due to insane levels of unreliability) is trash talk as far as I'm concerned.

10 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Indeed. I definitely get it objectively I think the hard balance is access to the holistic view for most people even for me as I become more of a civilian away from the day to day the planing and transportation industry sometimes I have to catch myself from thinking about it from my personal point of view that's naturally what we base our opinions off. I think the way forward is providing the data and information followed by context I had a quick chat yesterday with folks from the CB guess how many of them knew how subsidized express bus service is? When asked if the MTA provided ridership or headcount data to support the service cuts no response. So my question was if we don't know how many people are riding the 5:30 PM out of Co-Op how do you justify it? Too many people don't understand the process and too many people in the process aren't educating. We have to do better to take the mystery and superstition out of the process IMO Especially if in reality, it's data mixed with cause-and-effect

I agree they should've provided some estimates of how many people will be both positively and negatively affected by any given change. That's one of the things I've been nagging them about ever since they first released the Staten Island express bus redesign proposal in June 2017. It's the same as a schoolkid "showing his work" on a math problem. If you write out your calculations you are more likely to catch an error, and it is also easier to pinpoint where something went wrong (which assumption was wrong, which calculation was wrong, etc) if you have it all documented. Even now, they released their one year evaluation of the SIM network and we only have general stats about reliability. We don't have a line-by-line breakdown of reliability or total travel time (including transfers) or anything to that effect.

I will say this, the Existing Conditions report was pretty decent at describing the current conditions (it had cost per rider, ridership per revenue mile, ridership per revenue hour, most popular transfers for any given route, etc). But even in their draft plan and final plan, despite being around 300 pages each, there is still so much information that they are missing. (On a side note, that is one thing I specifically said to them at the meetings. They gave us a little 20 page Powerpoint as the "study" for the whole network and I insisted that any detailed analysis would require at least 100 pages. Turns out I was right....)

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Next time at least quote the correct person you’re talking about. Nobody is trashing the subway. Your comment is way off base. 

I did. BM5 via Woodhaven made that comment and I answered him. You jumped into the conversation and asked who was trash talking the subway and I responded that BM5 was and offered the quote as proof (again, he may have meant to convey a different message, but that is the way I interpreted it). Why would I quote anybody else except BM5 if it's his quote that I am discussing?

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Can't see that happening on 5-6 min. peak headways on that route.... I don't think it would be necessary, even if headways were higher....

In terms of long distance travel anyway, especially now that the Bx36 has been straightened, Parkchester riders aren't going to give up on it in any significant numbers for the new Bx11 (remember, the Bx36 still has LTD service).... The Bx11 will inherit the riders along/around 174th from off the (soon to be old) Bx36, which will only make that route slower..... Hell, I think they could've made the Bx36/LTD even more quicker by having it parallel the Q44 routing b/w Boston rd. & White Plains rd., instead of having it continue on E. Tremont, to White Plains rd....

If push came to shove, I would have rather had [the (current rendition of the) Bx36 cutback to Parkchester & the Bx11 staying put at West Farms/Westchester], over [the Bx36 straightened along Tremont, to WPR, etc. & the Bx11 extended to Parkchester].... I don't so much mind the Bx11 taking over 174th as much as I do having Bx40's/42's taking over 180th.... I just see those people along 180th trekking/gravitating to the Bx36 anyway.... But as with anything, let's see how this all plays out.....

One of the things I suggested to them was having the Bx11 cover the Soundview portion of the Bx36, and instead send the Bx36 to Westchester Square. So you basically have one continuous route along Tremont from University Avenue to Westchester Square, and both the northern and southern portions of Parkchester have a route to Upper Manhattan. And that's one thing that irks me about the new network, is that everything stops short of connecting with the Bx22 (the Bx6 SBS, Bx11, and Bx36). Not really wild about the idea of "walking transfers" (honestly if you're going to walk from the Bx22 to the Bx36, you might as well just walk directly to the Bx36). But yeah, I brought up that even if someone around Hugh Grant Circle wanted access to West Farms Square, they can just take the Q44.

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Planners did a good job strengthening the Bx36 along East Tremont. Although the preferred crosstown is the 40/42. So for a good stretch of Tremont is now the Bx36 which loses access to 180th. I want to see how the 40/42 does on 180th. 

As far as the 11 is concerned. It’s okay on paper but I would hope the end result is good now it’s about to get 24 hour service..

I kinda don’t like the 11 and the 35 swapping terminals tho. I personally think those 2 could of been left alone. But, I’m not in The Bronx very often to observe that. But from my experience on a some bus lines including the 40/42, 39, 27, 12/12SBS, 22, 5, 9, 11,36, 35, old Bx55, and the Co-op City lines. The planners did OKAY at best. 

PS: The Bx55 should came from the dead like the 25 did. 

The thing is, I don't think there is really any other way to straighten the Bx36 without either branching it or turning some portions into shuttles. If you straighten it out along Tremont, you need something to cover East 180th. So the Bx40/42 come into play to cover that. Then you need something to cover East 174th Street, so the Bx11 comes into play. Unless you took the Bx4A portion in Parkchester and sent it to East 174th (which would still be somewhat of a shuttle), but the Simpson Street (2)(5) station is a bigger transfer point (and one of the big things they were trying to do was provide more/easier connections across the Bronx River, which the Bx11 does coming from the Central Bronx)

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44 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The thing is, I don't think there is really any other way to straighten the Bx36 without either branching it or turning some portions into shuttles. If you straighten it out along Tremont, you need something to cover East 180th. So the Bx40/42 come into play to cover that. Then you need something to cover East 174th Street, so the Bx11 comes into play. Unless you took the Bx4A portion in Parkchester and sent it to East 174th (which would still be somewhat of a shuttle), but the Simpson Street (2)(5) station is a bigger transfer point (and one of the big things they were trying to do was provide more/easier connections across the Bronx River, which the Bx11 does coming from the Central Bronx)

Point well taken. I didn't really think too much of Simpson Street being a major transfer point. So in a sense they are filling the gaps for Central Bronx service.  The same goes with 180th. 

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11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I take the Lexington Avenue Line every weekday (albeit in the opposite direction since I live on Staten Island). Is it 100% reliable? No, but it isn't this huge catastrophe that some people make it out to be....

I've always been more partial to the west side of Manhattan over the east side, but I've never really quite understood the extent of the bashing (for lack of a better term) of the Lex line myself..... I refrain from taking the Lex lines really for no other reason than the sheer amount of crowding it amasses.... It's why I'm prone to discussing the 3rd/Lex bus routes over the M15 or the 5th/Madison routes.... I do not remember the last time I took the (4) or the (5) into Manhattan, but I bet anything the last time that I did, it was probably to GCT for the MNRR...... The Lex (subway) lines service-wise, I've never had much of a problem with - but that can be taken with a grain of salt, since I seldom use it....

12 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

One of the things I suggested to them was having the Bx11 cover the Soundview portion of the Bx36, and instead send the Bx36 to Westchester Square. So you basically have one continuous route along Tremont from University Avenue to Westchester Square, and both the northern and southern portions of Parkchester have a route to Upper Manhattan. And that's one thing that irks me about the new network, is that everything stops short of connecting with the Bx22 (the Bx6 SBS, Bx11, and Bx36). Not really wild about the idea of "walking transfers" (honestly if you're going to walk from the Bx22 to the Bx36, you might as well just walk directly to the Bx36). But yeah, I brought up that even if someone around Hugh Grant Circle wanted access to West Farms Square, they can just take the Q44.

A case for sending the Bx36 to Castle Hill (preferably via WPR & via Randall) is only strengthened with this redesign IMO....

Separate from anything involving the current or impending Bx36, the structure/routing of the Bx22 I never cared for & 'am somewhat surprised no alteration was attempted with/for that route.... I still think it should run via Tremont > 180th > Southern, en route to Fordham Plz. - dumping off pax. that need the (2) at E. 180th st. instead of at Bronx Park East (or Pelham Pkwy)....

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8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I've always been more partial to the west side of Manhattan over the east side, but I've never really quite understood the extent of the bashing (for lack of a better term) of the Lex line myself..... I refrain from taking the Lex lines really for no other reason than the sheer amount of crowding it amasses.... It's why I'm prone to discussing the 3rd/Lex bus routes over the M15 or the 5th/Madison routes.... I do not remember the last time I took the (4) or the (5) into Manhattan, but I bet anything the last time that I did, it was probably to GCT for the MNRR...... The Lex (subway) lines service-wise, I've never had much of a problem with - but that can be taken with a grain of salt, since I seldom use it....

A case for sending the Bx36 to Castle Hill (preferably via WPR & via Randall) is only strengthened with this redesign IMO....

Separate from anything involving the current or impending Bx36, the structure/routing of the Bx22 I never cared for & 'am somewhat surprised no alteration was attempted with/for that route.... I still think it should run via Tremont > 180th > Southern, en route to Fordham Plz. - dumping off pax. that need the (2) at E. 180th st. instead of at Bronx Park East (or Pelham Pkwy)....

The only major downside I see with that is that you would lose out on the connection to the Bx12 for passengers heading eastbound (well they would still have it but they would have to backtrack significantly or make a 3-legged transfer with the Bx39.

But that being said, it does get me thinking of one potential modification to the Bx22 of combining it with the East 180th portion of the Bx40/42. If the Bx36 were to go to Westchester Square, the Bx40/42 truncated to Westchester Square (from Throgs Neck) and the Bx11 extended to Castle Hill, with the Bx22 covering East 180th/Burnside...well the obvious downside is the Bx22 wouldn't serve Fordham Road at all (which includes not only Castle Hill but Parkchester). The portion west of Fordham Plaza barely carries anyone (especially west of the (4) and there's also the Bx28 covering that general area)  so that wouldn't be a huge loss. Still, food for thought...

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LMAO... So it seems that Bronx officials weren’t aware of the proposed cut in the spans and frequencies to the express buses before they went on camera and endorsed this half @ssed plan. I called Borough President Díaz’s office the other day and ripped into his reps. asking how he endorsed a plan that hurts constituents when dozens of neighborhoods would see their bus service REDUCED. All they could say was they would get back to me.

Here is Díaz just the other day with other Bronx elected officials: 

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/10/22/bronx-bus-network-resdesign/

Here is Assemblyman Benedetto talking about how he didn’t know about the BxM7 proposed cuts:

https://issuu.com/cctimes/docs/cct_102619

Furthermore, just a few months ago, all of the Bronx elected officials signed a letter saying that they didn’t support not having more funding to this plan (Staten Island received additional funding to the redesign), yet suddenly this plan works, despite no additional funding being added to the plan? Interesting... What changed from then until now?

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

LMAO... So it seems that Bronx officials weren’t aware of the proposed cut in the spans and frequencies to the express buses before they went on camera and endorsed this half @ssed plan. I called Borough President Díaz’s office the other day and ripped into his reps. asking how he endorsed a plan that hurts constituents when dozens of neighborhoods would see their bus service REDUCED. All they could say was they would get back to me.

Here is Díaz just the other day with other Bronx elected officials: 

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/10/22/bronx-bus-network-resdesign/

Here is Assemblyman Benedetto talking about how he didn’t know about the BxM7 proposed cuts:

https://issuu.com/cctimes/docs/cct_102619

Furthermore, just a few months ago, all of the Bronx elected officials signed a letter saying that they didn’t support not having more funding to this plan (Staten Island received additional funding to the redesign), yet suddenly this plan works, despite no additional funding being added to the plan? Interesting... What changed from then until now?

I checked into the draft plan, nothing was said about frequency changes besides "improvements". And if you notice, the "improvements" go towards the local routes, not express. So pretty much the MTA tricked officials into believing express service wouldn't really be effected frequency wise in the end. 

 

There is no reason the MTA could of not mentioned at least planning to reduce service on express routes. This was in fact a slick move to the officials and the public just to justify the cuts to the express routes. Not sure if this was already known but I did want to point that out.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I checked into the draft plan, nothing was said about frequency changes besides "improvements". And if you notice, the "improvements" go towards the local routes, not express. So pretty much the MTA tricked officials into believing express service wouldn't really be effected frequency wise in the end. 

 

There is no reason the MTA could of not mentioned at least planning to reduce service on express routes. This was in fact a slick move to the officials and the public just to justify the cuts to the express routes. Not sure if this was already known but I did want to point that out.

None of us knew about it, and that press conference was likely done without anyone being aware of the proposed cuts. I had a conference call Thursday and spoke with one of my contacts.  People are very upset about this, but I was told that they are listening, so we’ll write up some comments, then discuss either via another conference call or a meeting in person. Everyone down there already knows who I am from the last meeting, so they know what our stance is. We’re not expecting a bus every five minutes, but they are leaving people stranded under this proposal given how often the subways are knocked out around the borough. Co-op City would esp. be hit hard. No way are they accepting that. We are also laser focused on the BxM4 because of the ADA issues, which is why that Bedford Park branch was re-created. I told my contact that’s a start but we have to talk for sure. We also want these buses to truly sped up. We’ve been asking for HOV improvements since there aren’t any at the moment that we know of.

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I don't like that plan to put express buses on the Henry Hudson. Broadway is faster if you're getting from Uptown to Midtown. The Henry Hudson can be pretty slow due to traffic approaching the bridge. The express buses are better off doing pick ups/drop offs on 12th Ave in both directions if they're serious about it.

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10 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I don't like that plan to put express buses on the Henry Hudson. Broadway is faster if you're getting from Uptown to Midtown. The Henry Hudson can be pretty slow due to traffic approaching the bridge. The express buses are better off doing pick ups/drop offs on 12th Ave in both directions if they're serious about it.

I think the partial case with this is the BxM1, BxM2, BxM3 all get tied up on the NYS Thruway-Bronx Extension for a considerable amount of time. I also don’t like them going via the Henry Hudson. However, there’s no real travel pattern that’s good for those buses.  But also, I wouldn’t want them on the Grand Concourse unless priority signaling is in effect.  

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50 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I think the partial case with this is the BxM1, BxM2, BxM3 all get tied up on the NYS Thruway-Bronx Extension for a considerable amount of time. I also don’t like them going via the Henry Hudson. However, there’s no real travel pattern that’s good for those buses.  But also, I wouldn’t want them on the Grand Concourse unless priority signaling is in effect.  

The agency just wants to avoid service Inwood and get directly into the Bronx.

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22 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

The agency just wants to avoid service Inwood and get directly into the Bronx.

 

7 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

BTW, in the stops list, the BxM18 will be stopping in Inwood. The map has it as bypassing it.

Besides, do Inwood patrons utilize the express bus heading Downtown? Only reason i say this is only b/c you got the (A) at 207 and the (1) on Dyckman. Barring any delays. Both lines get you in Midtown in a decent amount of time. 

Just asking for informational purpose. 

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57 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

 

Besides, do Inwood patrons utilize the express bus heading Downtown? Only reason i say this is only b/c you got the (A) at 207 and the (1) on Dyckman. Barring any delays. Both lines get you in Midtown in a decent amount of time. 

Just asking for informational purpose. 

My guess is they are looking to serve riders heading to Hudson Yards who don't want to be bothered with running around Times Square to reach the (7) and climbing all those stairs at the Hudson Yards station

  • LMAO! 1

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

BTW, in the stops list, the BxM18 will be stopping in Inwood. The map has it as bypassing it.

 

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

 

Besides, do Inwood patrons utilize the express bus heading Downtown? Only reason i say this is only b/c you got the (A) at 207 and the (1) on Dyckman. Barring any delays. Both lines get you in Midtown in a decent amount of time. 

Just asking for informational purpose. 

 

12 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

My guess is they are looking to serve riders heading to Hudson Yards who don't want to be bothered with running around Times Square to reach the (7) and climbing all those stairs at the Hudson Yards station

The Hudson Yards service is a new service that the (MTA) is trying out.  What I haven't been able to get clarification on is what sort of data they have used to come to the conclusion that this service will be well utilized. That is something that we may discuss in another meeting. They must've at least looked at Metrocard swipes. They definitely know that most of us in Riverdale use the BxM1, BxM2, and BxM18 interchangeably. The demographics for Riverdale and parts of Inwood is somewhat similar in some regards, particularly when talking about west of Broadway and the gentrification happening in Inwood.  West of Broadway, Inwood continues to draw those that can and do take the express bus. The question is how sustainable this will be and how much of Inwood will continue to gentrify. The (A) train is downright horrendous at times.  I need it a few times a week and actually have switched to alternatives, and there are some people in Inwood that likely do the same.

The BxM1s definitely get good usage in Inwood, including that stop by Sherman and Dyckman as gentrification spills east of Broadway, but those people are usually the types that take it on occasion with some regulars. The problem I see is that Inwood is still more of a transitional neighborhood for the people moving there, primarily those that are priced out from other parts of Manhattan. I personally know people in the area that considered moving to Riverdale. but wanted a less suburban feel, so they settled for that area instead, but the price points are very similar and quickly rising.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Just picked up on this.... What was the rationale given for opting to extend the BxM18 to the bus terminal at South Ferry?

Coverage? Demand? Off-street terminating? Something else?

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15 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Just picked up on this.... What was the rationale given for opting to extend the BxM18 to the bus terminal at South Ferry?

Coverage? Demand? Off-street terminating? Something else?

I think part of it is them trying to have a bigger catchment area.  To be frank, this whole thing is experimental, and I'm not so sure that the BxM18 will be such a draw at Hudson Yards. Do some people work there from the area? Sure. The problem is they're proposing to get rid a few stops Downtown (the stops north of Chambers would be eliminated with the bus coming from the West Side), so this is their way of trying to address that problem. They also are only providing ONE Midtown stop, which is a real risk because a lot of ridership on the current BxM18 comes from the Midtown stops. Without the Midtown service, the Downtown ridership wouldn't be able to sustain the route on its own, so that's why they're opening it up to Inwood in the hopes that the demographic that lives west of Broadway that lives and is moving to Inwood will take the express bus. It's a big gamble to be honest... Time will tell. I wasn't aware of the stark contrast in terms of the median income between Inwood west of Broadway and east of Broadway, but it continues to grow.  You have more of the two income types moving to Inwood, so those households will bring in over $100k annually, so I imagine they are trying to target those people.  However, I find that a lot of those households tend to either drive or take the train, which is why parking is almost impossible. lol

I just checked out the median income for parts of Inwood west of Broadway and in parts of it, it's around $92,000, which is similar to Riverdale, but still. It's still not a large area, but you may have some people that would consider the service. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Just picked up on this.... What was the rationale given for opting to extend the BxM18 to the bus terminal at South Ferry?

Coverage? Demand? Off-street terminating? Something else?

My guess is trying to expand coverage (you have 55 Water Street and some other big buildings right there). But the off-street terminal probably also played a small role.

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think part of it is them trying to have a bigger catchment area.  To be frank, this whole thing is experimental, and I'm not so sure that the BxM18 will be such a draw at Hudson Yards. Do some people work there from the area? Sure. The problem is they're proposing to get rid a few stops Downtown (the stops north of Chambers would be eliminated with the bus coming from the West Side), so this is their way of trying to address that problem. They also are only providing ONE Midtown stop, which is a real risk because a lot of ridership on the current BxM18 comes from the Midtown stops. Without the Midtown service, the Downtown ridership wouldn't be able to sustain the route on its own, so that's why they're opening it up to Inwood in the hopes that the demographic that lives west of Broadway that lives and is moving to Inwood will take the express bus. It's a big gamble to be honest...

I think part of it also involves beefing up the Midtown ridership base on the BxM2. Without the UES riders, it's going to need another ridership source that can take advantage of the (supposedly) quicker ride down the Henry Hudson Parkway

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