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Deucey

Remind me: why won’t MTA install platform screen doors?

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47 minutes ago, Deucey said:

My Guess as to why the (MTA) won't install Platform Screen doors:

1. Train Lengths are different. (This is specific to the B Division only where you have 60' and 75' trains)

2. It'd be hard to maintain on a regular basis, and certain parts of the Subway (if not the entire system) will no longer be able to run 24/7 (considering (MTA);'s current maintenance habits. Correct me if I'm wrong)

Its disappointing that this is how people end up losing their lives. Whether it'd be suicide or some other case. What happened to using common sense?

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2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

My Guess as to why the (MTA) won't install Platform Screen doors:

1. Train Lengths are different. (This is specific to the B Division only where you have 60' and 75' trains)

2. It'd be hard to maintain on a regular basis, and certain parts of the Subway (if not the entire system) will no longer be able to run 24/7 (considering (MTA);'s current maintenance habits. Correct me if I'm wrong)

Its disappointing that this is how people end up losing their lives. Whether it'd be suicide or some other case. What happened to using common sense?

also , knowing mta , there’ll be multiple cases of where the platform doors get stuck and no one will be able to enter or exit 

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Well the simplest answer is that the stations weren't designed for it and retrofitting screen doors would be difficult if not impossible, in addition to train doors on some fleets not lining up with others (the R211s having wider doors will practically lock us into this situation for another 40 years.)

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

Well the simplest answer is that the stations weren't designed for it and retrofitting screen doors would be difficult if not impossible, in addition to train doors on some fleets not lining up with others (the R211s having wider doors will practically lock us into this situation for another 40 years.)

Yeah. Imagine installing PSDs at Wall St on the (2)(3), or Myrtle/Broadway. There'd be no platform left!

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3 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

also , knowing mta , there’ll be multiple cases of where the platform doors get stuck and no one will be able to enter or exit 

Hell, some places that do have them (and actually strive to maintain them) sometimes run into critical faults.

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Outside of anything money related, fear of success....

Then again, it's impossible to try to quell the rampant stupidity of the general public, so I guess I'll have to take that back....

Edited by B35 via Church
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4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Fear of success.

It can't really succeed without design consistency (we're not there just yet).

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People act like when a project is discussed it must be implemented across the entire system. They can easily install platform doors along the (7) and (L) lines for a start. Then gradually learn how to eventually implement it across the entire system. Technology will eventually be advanced to the point where it could definitely work in most parts of the system. 

They can implement platform doors across the entire LIRR system if they wanted tobut clearly they aren't ready for that type of modernization especially with the management and type of operation they have now. It's possible though don't get me wrong. 

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31 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

People act like when a project is discussed it must be implemented across the entire system. They can easily install platform doors along the (7) and (L) lines for a start. Then gradually learn how to eventually implement it across the entire system. Technology will eventually be advanced to the point where it could definitely work in most parts of the system. 

They can implement platform doors across the entire LIRR system if they wanted tobut clearly they aren't ready for that type of modernization especially with the management and type of operation they have now. It's possible though don't get me wrong. 

I somewhat agree with this a little...They did choose the (7) and (L)  for CBTC because of non trackage sharing......Now they gradually spending that across the system for better service... 

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17 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

People act like when a project is discussed it must be implemented across the entire system. They can easily install platform doors along the (7) and (L) lines for a start. Then gradually learn how to eventually implement it across the entire system. Technology will eventually be advanced to the point where it could definitely work in most parts of the system.

That's nice.

Unfortunately, the issue is a physical one. The IRT's SMEEs have doorways that are directly across from each other. While the NTTs' A cars have this feature, the B/C cars don't. This is particularly problematic for the (7), as the combination of 5-car and 6-car sets means that any installation will require the 5-car set to be on one end and the 6-car set to be on the other, or else several cars will fail to align. (While this is already practiced, door installation will mean that trains in the reverse configuration -- which is no less safe without the doors -- will forever be barred from operating in revenue service.)

The bigger issue, however, exists outside of the IRT, and that's not just a figure of speech. So long as we have those 75-footers, the options for installation will be limited, and that problem will persist if new 75-footers are ordered (for whatever reason).

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19 hours ago, RedLine said:

They can use screen doors that open vertically.

Not only does that concept have virtually no prevalence (it certainly won't be taking the world by storm anytime soon), but it only addresses the IRT's door placement issue (while opening another one concerning stations with pronounced curves). It does absolutely nothing to address the discrepancies the 75-footers bring.

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8 hours ago, Lex said:

Not only does that concept have virtually no prevalence (it certainly won't be taking the world by storm anytime soon), but it only addresses the IRT's door placement issue (while opening another one concerning stations with pronounced curves). It does absolutely nothing to address the discrepancies the 75-footers bring.

75ft cars won't be around forever, which is why I'm saying eventually it can be installed across all lines at various stations. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 2:00 AM, Lex said:

That's nice.

Unfortunately, the issue is a physical one. The IRT's SMEEs have doorways that are directly across from each other. While the NTTs' A cars have this feature, the B/C cars don't. This is particularly problematic for the (7), as the combination of 5-car and 6-car sets means that any installation will require the 5-car set to be on one end and the 6-car set to be on the other, or else several cars will fail to align. (While this is already practiced, door installation will mean that trains in the reverse configuration -- which is no less safe without the doors -- will forever be barred from operating in revenue service.)

The bigger issue, however, exists outside of the IRT, and that's not just a figure of speech. So long as we have those 75-footers, the options for installation will be limited, and that problem will persist if new 75-footers are ordered (for whatever reason).

75ft cars won't be around forever, which is why I'm saying eventually it can be installed across all lines at various stations. This is not something that'll happen 10-15 years from now but more like 20-25. IRT if they start considering it now, then maybe we can see something 10-12 years from now.

Also, your note about the (7) with the car configurations. Who cars if the 5 car sets gotta be on the western part of the train and the 6 car sets on the eastern? That's what they run now, that's how the stop markers are positioned, and LIRR has its trains to face only one direction as well so that's an invalid reason. 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888
(7) , italics

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11 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

75ft cars won't be around forever, which is why I'm saying eventually it can be installed across all lines at various stations.

I don't know if you were paying attention, but I specifically brought up the idea that the MTA could be boneheaded enough to order more of them (not in those exact words, but the idea is still there).

11 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Also, your note about the (7) with the car configurations. Who cars if the 5 car sets gotta be on the western part of the train and the 6 car sets on the eastern? That's what they run now, that's how the stop markers are positioned, and LIRR has its trains to face only one direction as well so that's an invalid reason. 

  1. I already acknowledged that.
  2. That's implied, though the MTA can have the boards installed for more than one configuration (look at where shorter trains run with full-length ones).
  3. Great, all LIRR trains have the cars face a specific direction. That's not a good comparison, as all EMUs run as married pairs, whereas diesel trains have more limited consistency than electric ones.

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Too expensive and failures of the PSD could require trains to by-pass whole stations if doorways failed to function. Imagine, even if for just a few trains, having all N/B (N) and (Q) trains by-pass 42nd St because one or more doorways were n the platform won’t open? 

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16 hours ago, andreww said:

Trains have doors fail to open. Why is it any different for PSDs?

Because even with some train door failures , you can still exit the train through another door in another car , if the psd fails to open , how is anyone gonna get out the train ?

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22 hours ago, andreww said:

Trains have doors fail to open. Why is it any different for PSDs?

A mechanical problem on a single train doesn't carry the same weight as a mechanical problem on the platform that will affect all trains.

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On 10/23/2019 at 1:12 PM, Maxwell179 said:

Because even with some train door failures , you can still exit the train through another door in another car , if the psd fails to open , how is anyone gonna get out the train ?

Someone pulls the door open on its hinges.

Other transit systems have figured this one out.

Now we could make trains crawl in at 5mph so if someone jumps, they’re less likely to splat.

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On 10/21/2019 at 9:35 PM, INDman said:

Too expensive and failures of the PSD could require trains to by-pass whole stations if doorways failed to function. Imagine, even if for just a few trains, having all N/B (N) and (Q) trains by-pass 42nd St because one or more doorways were n the platform won’t open? 

That doesn't make sense because you can easily just isolate that door and have people board and exit though another door. 

 

Or what happens in London can happen here :

 

 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888

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On 10/23/2019 at 1:12 PM, Maxwell179 said:

Because even with some train door failures , you can still exit the train through another door in another car , if the psd fails to open , how is anyone gonna get out the train ?

It's not like all doors on a platform are mechanically linked. If one door fails to open, you use the next one, just like with the train doors. 

Also, the way most PSDs work, every door — and every panel between the doors — is an emergency exit door with a crash bar. You can always get out from the track/train to the platform no matter what. 

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