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Union Tpke

It will take 9 minutes to get from GCT to street level with ESA

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I'm not incredibly familiar with the spatial layout of ESA, but I was always under the impression that it's just 1 story below the current lower level. If that's true, wouldn't it just be the time it takes to get to the lower level + a few minutes for the extra stairs?

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57 minutes ago, P3F said:

I'm not incredibly familiar with the spatial layout of ESA, but I was always under the impression that it's just 1 story below the current lower level. If that's true, wouldn't it just be the time it takes to get to the lower level + a few minutes for the extra stairs?

That was one option which was rejected due to the cost of underpinning Park Avenue and the fact that MNR and LIRR would've had to share some facilities. Building it deeper was supposed to be cheaper, but $8B+ later, the northern cousin of Macy's Basement is still not done 12 years after it was supposedly going to be finished.

East_Side_Access-Manhattan_Caverns_02.jp

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1 hour ago, P3F said:

I'm not incredibly familiar with the spatial layout of ESA, but I was always under the impression that it's just 1 story below the current lower level. 

There's a cross-passage running east-west under E 45th St as part of Grand Central North that passes below the lower level platforms. (It's shown on this outdated GCT North map, but it's a little hard to see) There are stairs/escalators that run directly from the upper level NW/NE passages to the 45th St cross-passage bypassing the lower level platform. Since the 45th St passage is below the lower level platforms, using it is similar to accessing the express platforms at Atlantic Av (2)(3)(4)(5) or 34 St-Penn Station on the subway. The 45th St passage should be only about 20-30 ft above the top of the southern end of the upper ESA cavern.  It definitely should have connected to the ESA caverns and I assume the mindset that LIRR/MNR must be separate is what prevented it. Hopefully it could still be built in the future, albeit more disruptively and expensively than building it now.

8902049267_5f13de6618_h.jpg

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Couldn't we just have connected the LIRR tracks from the 63rd Street tunnel to the eastern side of the existing lower level and made the necessary modifications for LIRR trains for far less money instead of this expensive boondoggle? 9 minutes from train to street level is ludicrous.

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10 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Couldn't we just have connected the LIRR tracks from the 63rd Street tunnel to the eastern side of the existing lower level and made the necessary modifications for LIRR trains for far less money instead of this expensive boondoggle? 9 minutes from train to street level is ludicrous.

That was the plan originally from my understanding. I have some the older EIS had a up grade from around 61& Park to the lower level of GCT.

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

Couldn't we just have connected the LIRR tracks from the 63rd Street tunnel to the eastern side of the existing lower level and made the necessary modifications for LIRR trains for far less money instead of this expensive boondoggle? 9 minutes from train to street level is ludicrous.

Welcome to MTACC, where all they do is stick their fingers in their ears while pouring gasoline over piles of money.

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I'm really not sure of the hub bub about 9 minutes.  Depending on where in the current lower level track area you are, and crowd conditions, it's could be well over five minutes to get to the street.  This is from the time you step off the train and navigate any stairs, elevator, etc.

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2 hours ago, Truckie said:

I'm really not sure of the hub bub about 9 minutes.  Depending on where in the current lower level track area you are, and crowd conditions, it's could be well over five minutes to get to the street.  This is from the time you step off the train and navigate any stairs, elevator, etc.

Quite frankly, I ignored that bit about 9 mins. when I first saw this thread (the day it was posted), as I often exclude myself when it comes to walking duration, in comparison to the general public....

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So stupid but brilliant question:

Why didn’t they just build some platforms under Lex/63rd for trains to stop at, and a storage/turnback yard beneath Central Park?

Did it really need to go to a whole new level beneath GCT?

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1 minute ago, Deucey said:

So stupid but brilliant question:

Why didn’t they just build some platforms under Lex/63rd for trains to stop at, and a storage/turnback yard beneath Central Park?

Did it really need to go to a whole new level beneath GCT?

GCT is in the heart of the CBD where's Lex/63rd is not, most ppl would still have to transfer to the subway to get to their jobs.

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9 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

GCT is in the heart of the CBD where's Lex/63rd is not, most ppl would still have to transfer to the subway to get to their jobs.

The irony is that this the very problem MNRR riders complain about with GCT....

ughk that 42nd st (S)....

ughk that (7)...

ughk whatever other icky subway line they gotta take after disembarking the (S) or the (7) 

 

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On 10/22/2019 at 6:59 PM, Truckie said:

I'm really not sure of the hub bub about 9 minutes.  Depending on where in the current lower level track area you are, and crowd conditions, it's could be well over five minutes to get to the street.  This is from the time you step off the train and navigate any stairs, elevator, etc.

Agreed. I’ve become very familiar with the exits for this reason.

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On 10/23/2019 at 8:06 AM, B35 via Church said:

The irony is that this the very problem MNRR riders complain about with GCT....

ughk that 42nd st (S)....

ughk that (7)...

ughk whatever other icky subway line they gotta take after disembarking the (S) or the (7) 

 

Talking about the 42nd Street (S), why didn't the (MTA) have the shuttle go from GCT to Penn Station with a stop at Times Square in between? That would've connected the 2 railroad terminals in the city much better and could've been cheaper than ESA.

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44 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Talking about the 42nd Street (S), why didn't the (MTA) have the shuttle go from GCT to Penn Station with a stop at Times Square in between? That would've connected the 2 railroad terminals in the city much better and could've been cheaper than ESA.

The (S) is older than the MTA, and for that matter its route is older than Penn Station. There is way to extend it from Times Square - the 7 Av line is directly in the way.

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So I did an informal sampling. It's an average of 6 minutes to get up and to the mezzanine if you aren't the first one out the door.

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That's why I try to be the first out the door and closest to the stairs at Penn Station and Atlantic Terminal, everyone else is just too slow.  If you check subway time and the (A)(C)(E) or (1)(2)(3) is about to arrive and you're not at the stairs to the mezz before the molasses queue builds up then you're screwed.

Also, at Atlantic Terminal if you're not at the subway turnstiles on the platform first, you get delayed behind people blocking the turnstiles not knowing where they're going and/or looking for their metrocards in their pockets/ purses , etc. 😕

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