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Gotham Bus Co.

MTAPD in subway stations

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2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Today I saw 4 cops at Bowling Green. That wouldn't be unusual, except that they were MTAPD instead of NYPD.

 

Is NYPD getting out of the subway patrol business?

Not at all, the extra MTAPD forces are intended to combat farebeating and homeless troubles to my knowledge in certain stations. They pretty much serve as assistance to the NYPD.

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32 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Did they always have jurisdiction in subways or did state legislature have to sign something about this new program?

 

Technically, both the subway system and NYC in general are located within the 12-county MTA district, so they have always had jurisdiction. Maybe the MTA is planning to scrap its patrol contract with NYPD in favor of the in-house police force.

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The MTAPD were not regularly used in the subway before this summer. The NYC Transit Police (since the 90s a subset of the NYPD) always held patrols. But Cuomo diverted some MTAPD to the subway in July or so, and now he's hiring 500 new MTAPD for subway use. There is no talk of the NYPD Transit Squad leaving the subway, only the MTAPD supplementing. Questionable use of money as service is cut regardless. 

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4 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

The MTAPD were not regularly used in the subway before this summer. The NYC Transit Police (since the 90s a subset of the NYPD) always held patrols. But Cuomo diverted some MTAPD to the subway in July or so, and now he's hiring 500 new MTAPD for subway use. There is no talk of the NYPD Transit Squad leaving the subway, only the MTAPD supplementing. Questionable use of money as service is cut regardless. 

Spending $250 million dollars to save $200 million is questionable for sure when you are cutting service. I don’t see why they can’t address the fare beating problem with a lower price tag...

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22 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Spending $250 million dollars to save $200 million is questionable for sure when you are cutting service. I don’t see why they can’t address the fare beating problem with a lower price tag...

The only real way to prevent fare evasion in a cost effective way (and frankly this should be done regardless) is to design a better turnstile (which should be done given ADA work as well).

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1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The only real way to prevent fare evasion in a cost effective way (and frankly this should be done regardless) is to design a better turnstile (which should be done given ADA work as well).

That’s not the only way. They can go back to having plain clothes officers do operations and busts on the subways and buses. God forbid they go back to tried and true tactics...

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That’s not the only way. They can go back to having plain clothes officers do operations and busts on the subways and buses. God forbid they go back to tried and true tactics...

Cops have better things to do than fine farebeaters. I’d rather incur a one time expense for turnstile installation than shell out more of the budget for fare evasion enforcement that could pay only nominally in the long run. 

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58 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Cops have better things to do than fine farebeaters. I’d rather incur a one time expense for turnstile installation than shell out more of the budget for fare evasion enforcement that could pay only nominally in the long run. 

Cops have always been in the subway. Stop talking foolishness. The only issue here is how many are being used.

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6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Cops have always been in the subway. Stop talking foolishness. The only issue here is how many are being used.

MTAPD have never been in the subway. The NYPD Transit Bureau has always been enough, no need to mess with a proven system. 

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1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

MTAPD have never been in the subway. The NYPD Transit Bureau has always been enough, no need to mess with a proven system. 

I don't know that I would consider the TB to do such an amazing job that no extra help is needed...even when crime overall is lower, the subways always tend to attract criminal activity because of its nature.

That being said, if the MTAPD is really just focusing on tickets for farebeating, which brings up memories of the fallacies of Broken Window policing, it is not especially helpful. I'd really like them to focus on connecting the homeless to mental health services (the NYPD has a homeless outreach unit that is supposed to do this). There are new-ish programs where court-mandated treatment for violent homeless folks is showing really good results. I'd also like them doing more undercover work to stop crimes in progress, as VG8 mentioned. 

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2 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

MTAPD have never been in the subway. The NYPD Transit Bureau has always been enough, no need to mess with a proven system. 

 

9 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I don't know that I would consider the TB to do such an amazing job that no extra help is needed...even when crime overall is lower, the subways always tend to attract criminal activity because of its nature.

That being said, if the MTAPD is really just focusing on tickets for farebeating, which brings up memories of the fallacies of Broken Window policing, it is not especially helpful. I'd really like them to focus on connecting the homeless to mental health services (the NYPD has a homeless outreach unit that is supposed to do this). There are new-ish programs where court-mandated treatment for violent homeless folks is showing really good results. I'd also like them doing more undercover work to stop crimes in progress, as VG8 mentioned. 

There have been undercover cops in the subways for as long as I can remember. 

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On 11/17/2019 at 5:47 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Spending $250 million dollars to save $200 million is questionable for sure when you are cutting service. I don’t see why they can’t address the fare beating problem with a lower price tag...

I've  been saying this on this godforsaken forum for YEARSSSSSSSSS. More police are almost never the solution to anything, not only is it costly but it is demonstrably ineffective. Not to mention all of the police on civilian violence that's been occuring in the recent months. 

Either way, The best way to combat farebeating isn't to ask the question "how do we stop farebeating," whe should be asking "why are people farebeating" and go from there.

 

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9 hours ago, kosciusko said:

I've  been saying this on this godforsaken forum for YEARSSSSSSSSS. More police are almost never the solution to anything, not only is it costly but it is demonstrably ineffective. Not to mention all of the police on civilian violence that's been occuring in the recent months. 

Either way, The best way to combat farebeating isn't to ask the question "how do we stop farebeating," whe should be asking "why are people farebeating" and go from there.

 

Why are people fare beating is easy to answer.... Because they can, and they feel entitled. This nonsense about being "poor" is a poor excuse. I'd wager that a tiny amount of population is so poor that they can't afford $2.75, and most of those people aren't the ones fare beating.

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