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NICE Bus: 8 Years Later

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23 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

IIRC, the S20 uses a smaller arboc buses while the S33 uses a larger bus to carry passengers. Service ends early because Suffolk Transit has less service hours than NICE. 

The n54/55 is the only route that I ever see flooring it from Sunrise Mall to Hempstead Transit Center. To answer your question, Amityville has a Railroad Station while Sunrise is just a mall used as a transfer point.

n72 still exists in the form of Conkin at Route 110. Nassau Patrons are more concerned with connecting with the S1 while Suffolk Patrons don't want to do the transfer at Farmingdale State College. It only takes 40 minutes to travel between Hempstead and Farmingdale, and another 20-30 to get from Farmingdale to Babylon. 

NICE acknowledge that the commute is getting worse on Long Island, which is why they are doing stop rebalancing along Hempstead Turnpike to speed up the n6. They love to remind people that the n6 carries roughly 14,000-18,000 people daily.

That's all fine and well but at the end of the day all that matters is that the service ends earlier. The typical rider doesn't know or care why or how.

As for Amityville I am aware of that. I'm just saying that short little stretch can be done in much less than 10 minutes.

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49 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's all fine and well but at the end of the day all that matters is that the service ends earlier. The typical rider doesn't know or care why or how.

As for Amityville I am aware of that. I'm just saying that short little stretch can be done in much less than 10 minutes.

The typical Nassau rider only cares for reinstating the  n45, n50, n51, and n73. They're more concerned with getting to Nassau Community College, Mineola and Hicksville on a north-south route. In terms of service hours, only route that I can think of that needs more service hours is the n22 running between Hicksville and Jamaica. Hempstead and Freeport already have 24 hour bus service. 

Out in Suffolk, they're more concerned with getting to Route 110 or crossing it to get in and out of Nassau as fast as possible. Sometimes I wish that the S1 had extended service hours till midnight. 

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A few years ago, around 8am, there used to be long lines of 40-50 people waiting at Mineola weekdays for an eastbound N22/N24.  Now, you're lucky if you get 5-10 people at that time.  Just a handful walk to Mineola Blvd for the N22X.

By having extremely unreliable N24 service during morning rush-hours at 8am (with 30 minute gaps in service), NICE has decimated ridership. They had a huge moneymaker on their hands, with many LIRR riders needing to go from Mineola to Roosevelt Field.  And they completely screwed it up.  People found other ways to get to work (cab, car pool, changing jobs to work in Manhattan, etc).

They need to institute a Mineola to Roosevelt Field shuttle that runs every 5-10 minutes during rush-hours, and every 15 minutes all other times on weekdays.  

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10 hours ago, RtrainBlues said:

A few years ago, around 8am, there used to be long lines of 40-50 people waiting at Mineola weekdays for an eastbound N22/N24.  Now, you're lucky if you get 5-10 people at that time.  Just a handful walk to Mineola Blvd for the N22X.

By having extremely unreliable N24 service during morning rush-hours at 8am (with 30 minute gaps in service), NICE has decimated ridership. They had a huge moneymaker on their hands, with many LIRR riders needing to go from Mineola to Roosevelt Field.  And they completely screwed it up.  People found other ways to get to work (cab, car pool, changing jobs to work in Manhattan, etc).

They need to institute a Mineola to Roosevelt Field shuttle that runs every 5-10 minutes during rush-hours, and every 15 minutes all other times on weekdays.  

NICE used shuttle buses this past weekend between Mineola and Roosevelt FIeld for the holiday season. The n22/24 skipped the mall during that time. 

 

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1 hour ago, SubBus said:

I went up there a few months ago. It's mostly retirees and transit people living out on the east part of Lynbrook-Baldwin-Freeport. I think the union office is right by Baldwin LIRR.

According to NICE, the n36 got eliminated because of budget cuts. Mostly seniors and retirees live in the south part of freeport for access to South Nassau Hospital in Oceanside and access to other adult daycare facilities along Merrick. It's a short route but faster and less crowded than the n4 on Merrick.

NICE just released their schedule, and one of the noticeable differences is mostly the n54/55 having an early start at 4am. It seems like they streamlined the info to make it easy to read. People are fleeing the city to avoid the proxy fight between Governor Cuomo, Trump, Deblasio, Bloomberg, and Guiliani.

In Nassau, you just avoid Floral Park and Garden City because their police force starts begging you for money.

Edited by NY1635

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On 12/23/2019 at 8:29 AM, NY1635 said:

NICE used shuttle buses this past weekend between Mineola and Roosevelt FIeld for the holiday season. The n22/24 skipped the mall during that time. 

 

How did the suttle go?

18 hours ago, NY1635 said:

NICE just released their schedule, and one of the noticeable differences is mostly the n54/55 having an early start at 4am. It seems like they streamlined the info to make it easy to read. People are fleeing the city to avoid the proxy fight between Governor Cuomo, Trump, Deblasio, Bloomberg, and Guiliani.

In Nassau, you just avoid Floral Park and Garden City because their police force starts begging you for money.

How so, fundraisers?

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Who drew up the erratic mid-day N15 changes leaving Roosevelt Field?   11:06/23/46am, 12:03/23/43pm, 1:08pm, etc?

Sometimes it's a 17 minute gap, then a 23 minute gap, then a 17 minute gap, then several 20 minute gaps, then a 25 minute gap a bit later, etc.  

They could have tweaked their current schedule to keep it simple: 11:15/35/55am, 12:15/35/55pm, etc.  Evenly spaced 20 minute intervals.  But I guess that would make too much sense for the people at NICE bus.

Really ridiculous & will likely lead to bus bunching, and more ridership drops.  

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On 12/31/2019 at 8:04 PM, RtrainBlues said:

Who drew up the erratic mid-day N15 changes leaving Roosevelt Field?   11:06/23/46am, 12:03/23/43pm, 1:08pm, etc?

Sometimes it's a 17 minute gap, then a 23 minute gap, then a 17 minute gap, then several 20 minute gaps, then a 25 minute gap a bit later, etc.  

They could have tweaked their current schedule to keep it simple: 11:15/35/55am, 12:15/35/55pm, etc.  Evenly spaced 20 minute intervals.  But I guess that would make too much sense for the people at NICE bus.

Really ridiculous & will likely lead to bus bunching, and more ridership drops.  

The timeable is meant to be read from right to left like a railroad schedule. They're trying to cutdown on paper.

NICE should bring back the JFK Flyer using those cutaway buses during peak periods.

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On 12/8/2019 at 10:52 PM, User said:

As we come up on 8 years of Veolia running Nassau's bus system, I thought we could take a look back at what has changed over this time and compare it to MTA Long Island Bus.

This is where the routes are now (each category is in order of total cost per passenger from 2011 Long Island Bus stats):

Discontinued:

N14
N73/N74
N81
N62
N51
N50
N08
N45
N36
N46/N47


Reduced Service:

N80 - Reduced to Weekday, No Midday Service
N26 - 2 additional trips added during morning/afternoon - still Weekday, Rush hour only
N19 - Reduced to Weekday, No Midday Service
N27 - Reduced to Weekday, hourly service (from half-hourly)
N78/N79 - Only between Plainview/Huntington and Hicksville. Sunday service removed. No midday weekday service.
N20/N21 - N20 split in 2 sub-routes (with timing changeS). N21 reduced to weekday rush-hour only.
N02 - Reduced to Weekday Elmont Flexi (Minibus) service
N01 - Jamaica served weekday rush hours only, westbound in the morning and eastbound in the evening.
N23 - Weekday midday service is now hourly (from half-hourly).
N70/N71/N72 - No longer serves Babylon or Newsday in Melville, N70/72 shortened to Farmingdale State College
N54/N55 - No longer serves Amityville. Weekend service reduced to between 45 min and 1 hour.
N33 - No Sunday service anymore. Saturday service reduced from 22 trips each way to 15 trips.
N16 - Reduced to Weekday, some trips operate as express between NCC and Hempstead


Major Service Changes:

N24 - Now serves Old Country Rd between Roosevelt Field/Hicksville. No longer serves East Meadow. Service level about the same as previously.
N22/N22A - N22A discontinued. N22 Limited created in 2012 but replaced with N22 Express. 10 additional trips added on weekdays each way.
N04 - Shortened runs to Rockville Centre have been converted into full runs. Some rush-hour runs converted into new N4 Express.
N06 - N6 Limited replaced with N6 Express service (some with articulated buses). Stop reduction is planned for Hempstead Tpke.
N40/N41 - Now operates on a schedule-less model with frequency of service varying between 10-15 min on weekdays.


Small adjustments if any (includes timing changes without major reduction/addition of runs/stops):

N88 - Similar service levels as LIB during the Summer
N57 - Similar service levels as LIB
N25 - Similar service levels as LIB
N58 - Similar service levels as LIB
N15 - Some weekday trips added. Mineola Intermodal Center only served during rush hours.
N35 - Similar service levels as LIB
N43 - Similar service levels as LIB
N48/N49 - Similar service levels as LIB (a few trips have been added on weekdays/weekends)
N31 - Similar service levels as LIB
N32 - Similar service levels as LIB


NOTES:

- In 2011, the N40/41 was listed as the only profitable route for the 2.25 fare at the time.

- The total ridership in 2011 under Long Island Bus was 101,981 weekday riders. In 2018, the total ridership for Nassau Inter-County Express was 77,333 weekday riders.

- Between 2012 and 2019, all Orion V CNG buses were sold for scrap and replaced with Orion VII 3Gs as well as New Flyer XN40s and XN60s.

- An N17 route was initially created between Rockville Centre and Hempstead. That has since been replaced with a rush-hour only Minibus shuttle.

- The N87 was brought back for Summer 2013 and Summer 2014 between Hicksville and Jones Beach but has since been discontinued again.


Some Data References:

Latest ridership data from NICE: https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/2016-TITLE-6-SURVEY-final-Copy.pdf
NICE's Vision: https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/nicebus-pdfs/Let-s-Go-V2-Final-May-2018.pdf
NICE 2018 Ridership: https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/transit_agency_profile_doc/2018/20206.pdf


Topics for discussion:

1) Looking back, do you agree with the routes that have been discontinued?
1a) Do you think the money spent for any of the routes could/should have been spent elsewhere by LIB/NICE?

2) Do you think the removal of the lower-performing routes has resulted in improvements within other parts of the system?
2a) Have you seen any improvement in reliability of service (on-time performance, buses running smoothly without breakdowns, etc) with the reductions that have been made? ie. Do the reductions make up for anything?

3) If NICE had to make more service reductions, where would you expect them to make that?
3a) Separately, if reductions had to be made, where would you choose to reduce service costs?

4) Overall, taking into account the reductions versus provided service levels, do you think NICE has proven that they can stretch a dollar more than MTA Long Island Bus could?

You

 

On 12/8/2019 at 10:52 PM, User said:

As we come up on 8 years of Veolia running Nassau's bus system, I thought we could take a look back at what has changed over this time and compare it to MTA Long Island Bus.

This is where the routes are now (each category is in order of total cost per passenger from 2011 Long Island Bus stats):

Discontinued:

N14
N73/N74
N81
N62
N51
N50
N08
N45
N36
N46/N47


Reduced Service:

N80 - Reduced to Weekday, No Midday Service
N26 - 2 additional trips added during morning/afternoon - still Weekday, Rush hour only
N19 - Reduced to Weekday, No Midday Service
N27 - Reduced to Weekday, hourly service (from half-hourly)
N78/N79 - Only between Plainview/Huntington and Hicksville. Sunday service removed. No midday weekday service.
N20/N21 - N20 split in 2 sub-routes (with timing changeS). N21 reduced to weekday rush-hour only.
N02 - Reduced to Weekday Elmont Flexi (Minibus) service
N01 - Jamaica served weekday rush hours only, westbound in the morning and eastbound in the evening.
N23 - Weekday midday service is now hourly (from half-hourly).
N70/N71/N72 - No longer serves Babylon or Newsday in Melville, N70/72 shortened to Farmingdale State College
N54/N55 - No longer serves Amityville. Weekend service reduced to between 45 min and 1 hour.
N33 - No Sunday service anymore. Saturday service reduced from 22 trips each way to 15 trips.
N16 - Reduced to Weekday, some trips operate as express between NCC and Hempstead


Major Service Changes:

N24 - Now serves Old Country Rd between Roosevelt Field/Hicksville. No longer serves East Meadow. Service level about the same as previously.
N22/N22A - N22A discontinued. N22 Limited created in 2012 but replaced with N22 Express. 10 additional trips added on weekdays each way.
N04 - Shortened runs to Rockville Centre have been converted into full runs. Some rush-hour runs converted into new N4 Express.
N06 - N6 Limited replaced with N6 Express service (some with articulated buses). Stop reduction is planned for Hempstead Tpke.
N40/N41 - Now operates on a schedule-less model with frequency of service varying between 10-15 min on weekdays.


Small adjustments if any (includes timing changes without major reduction/addition of runs/stops):

N88 - Similar service levels as LIB during the Summer
N57 - Similar service levels as LIB
N25 - Similar service levels as LIB
N58 - Similar service levels as LIB
N15 - Some weekday trips added. Mineola Intermodal Center only served during rush hours.
N35 - Similar service levels as LIB
N43 - Similar service levels as LIB
N48/N49 - Similar service levels as LIB (a few trips have been added on weekdays/weekends)
N31 - Similar service levels as LIB
N32 - Similar service levels as LIB


NOTES:

- In 2011, the N40/41 was listed as the only profitable route for the 2.25 fare at the time.

- The total ridership in 2011 under Long Island Bus was 101,981 weekday riders. In 2018, the total ridership for Nassau Inter-County Express was 77,333 weekday riders.

- Between 2012 and 2019, all Orion V CNG buses were sold for scrap and replaced with Orion VII 3Gs as well as New Flyer XN40s and XN60s.

- An N17 route was initially created between Rockville Centre and Hempstead. That has since been replaced with a rush-hour only Minibus shuttle.

- The N87 was brought back for Summer 2013 and Summer 2014 between Hicksville and Jones Beach but has since been discontinued again.

 

 

n14- agree that got eliminated.

n36 need to come back.

n45, n46, n50, n51, n74 and n81 need to come back or use mini or able-ride buses.

n19 and n72 need to return to Babylon.

n20G/H agliment I don't agree because it forcing people to play FROGGER AT RED at Middle Neck Rd/Northern Blvd just to catch connecting bus, which is also dangerous intersection.

n87 bus needs back since Jones Beach Hotel in Wantagh asking for bus to come back.

 

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3 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

You

 

n14- agree that got eliminated.

n36 need to come back.

n45, n46, n50, n51, n74 and n81 need to come back or use mini or able-ride buses.

n19 and n72 need to return to Babylon.

n20G/H agliment I don't agree because it forcing people to play FROGGER AT RED at Middle Neck Rd/Northern Blvd just to catch connecting bus, which is also dangerous intersection.

n87 bus needs back since Jones Beach Hotel in Wantagh asking for bus to come back.

 

n36: It's mostly for Atlantic Avenue between Lynbrook and Freeport. Needs to be extended from 5 Corners at Merrick to Green Acres via Merrick Road.

n81: It was mostly for Briarcliffe Students, Briarcliff shut down ages ago.

n45: Pointless with it turned off Uniondale Avenue at Park Avenue. Needs to use Bablyon Turnpike to reach Bellmore and Camp Avenue.

n50: Newbridge Road North of Hempstead Turnpike is served by the n49. Only South of the turnpike needs bus service.

n19: Currently runs to Westfield Sunrise during Peak. People heading to Bablyon already use the LIRR from Freeport Station.

n72: Currently Ends at Route 110 in Farmingdale. Can be extended to Bablyon via 109, turning off the turnpike at the Junction.

*Nassau resdients are more concerned with heading to 110 for a connection to the S1, 2, and 3A-C. 

n20: Just recombine the route and short turn n20 locals at Roslyn Industrial Park during the Peak Hour, Hicksville Off Peak.

Only College Students want their one seat ride into Nassau. n20 ridership peaks at Roslyn Clock Tower and Great Neck Plaza.

n51: Merrick Residents want North-South Travel. It can be done if it makes a stop at MSK in Uniondale and use Corporate Drive to reach the Mall instead of Stewart. 

*They use the n54/55 for East-West Travel. Most used stops on n54/55 are Uniondale Avenue, Wantagh Avenue, Merrick Avenue, Gardener's Avenue, Broadway  at LIRR (n55), Washington Ave at LIRR (n54)

*Broadway At LIRR is Massapequa

*Washington Avenue at LIRR is Seaford.  

*There's a huge preserve in Massapequa and it's implied MS-13 uses them to kill and dispose of the bodies around that area.

Edited by NY1635

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9 hours ago, NY1635 said:

n36: It's mostly for Atlantic Avenue between Lynbrook and Freeport. Needs to be extended from 5 Corners at Merrick to Green Acres via Merrick Road.

n81: It was mostly for Briarcliffe Students, Briarcliff shut down ages ago.

n45: Pointless with it turned off Uniondale Avenue at Park Avenue. Needs to use Bablyon Turnpike to reach Bellmore and Camp Avenue.

n50: Newbridge Road North of Hempstead Turnpike is served by the n49. Only South of the turnpike needs bus service.

n19: Currently runs to Westfield Sunrise during Peak. People heading to Bablyon already use the LIRR from Freeport Station.

n72: Currently Ends at Route 110 in Farmingdale. Can be extended to Bablyon via 109, turning off the turnpike at the Junction.

*Nassau resdients are more concerned with heading to 110 for a connection to the S1, 2, and 3A-C. 

n20: Just recombine the route and short turn n20 locals at Roslyn Industrial Park during the Peak Hour, Hicksville Off Peak.

Only College Students want their one seat ride into Nassau. n20 ridership peaks at Roslyn Clock Tower and Great Neck Plaza.

n51: Merrick Residents want North-South Travel. It can be done if it makes a stop at MSK in Uniondale and use Corporate Drive to reach the Mall instead of Stewart. 

*They use the n54/55 for East-West Travel. Most used stops on n54/55 are Uniondale Avenue, Wantagh Avenue, Merrick Avenue, Gardener's Avenue, Broadway  at LIRR (n55), Washington Ave at LIRR (n54)

*Broadway At LIRR is Massapequa

*Washington Avenue at LIRR is Seaford.  

*There's a huge preserve in Massapequa and it's implied MS-13 uses them to kill and dispose of the bodies around that area.

Majority of n20g/h bus riders want direct bus service back 24-hour via Great Neck including Jericho Whole Food, gas station at Glen Clove Rd, Pt. Washington Blvd, Manhassett Whole Food, Americana Mall, etc.

Also weekend n27 bus need to be restored but terminate/originate at Roosevelt Field Mall.

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8 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

n62 bus need to be restored but extended via Guy Lombardo Rd all the way to end, like using mini buses.

They could just extend the n43 into South Freeport via Guy Lombardo Avenue.

The n62 will work better as a Nautical Mile-Freeport LIRR shuttle.

Edited by NY1635

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The ridership numbers for 2019 have just been released for NICE. It went slightly up from 77,333 weekday riders in 2018 to 79,530 riders last year. However, the average operating expense per passenger trip on a bus (not Able-ride) also went slightly up from $4.83 to $4.94 due to increased expenses (Purchased Transportation expense went up ~6 million USD).

https://cms7.fta.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/transit_agency_profile_doc/2019/20206.pdf

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