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vioreen

4 line change in Bronx

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Just now, RR503 said:

Sorry. You'd either have n/b (3) trains skip 135, or you'd rebuild 135 to a 3 track/2 platform station with (3)s in the middle, or you'd just all out grade separate the area potentially using the middle track as someone else suggested. 

I had thought of grade-separating using the middle and a 3 track/2 platform before, but having N/B trains skip sounds like an intriguing idea.

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1 hour ago, I Run Trains said:

Theres already  switches at burnside!!!!!! The (4) goes express everyday in the bronx........ you just gotta be lucky to catch that 1 thats going express! LoL...

No, theres one switch that's not in the right place that allows a (6)<6> setup, which is the NB local to Express switch, which should be South of Burnside Av, not north to allow local (4) trains to terminate.

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@RR503 In the past, you have stated that there is value in having emptier trains on the UWS (3)s. I still think the tradeoff in terms of increased service on Jerome and the WPR, and the elimination of the merges at 149th and shuttling Harlem is worth it. I would have a 3-track 135th with the shuttle on the center track for cross-platform transfers. The junction would be grade-separated, likely requiring the elimination of 145th.

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31 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

While the (B) won't help pull some loads off the (4) all the way, it will certainly make it alot more attractive to Grand Concourse local stops, especially for Yankee Stadium. I feel like the (B) to Bedford Park in the PM ends far too early, as during baseball season, trains are slammed to the core. Yet the (MTA)'s only solution is to have that (D) Express cross over to local for 161 (after bypassing 155 on the express) before crossing back to express. Horrible.

Amazing how they get away with having the express (D) cross from express to local and back to express after 161. You’d never be able to get away with that on the (7) express at 74th. But it is completely ridiculous that they do this instead of just running the (B) later in The Bronx.

And that’s exactly it. If they want the Concourse line to offer some kind of relief to the (4), then they’ve got to run more (B) local service on it. It’s completely ridiculous that they still don’t after all this time.

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35 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

No, theres one switch that's not in the right place that allows a (6)<6> setup, which is the NB local to Express switch, which should be South of Burnside Av, not north to allow local (4) trains to terminate.

Well Damn!! i operate The (4) everyday! and you are telling me That there aren't switches on each track?!?!?!?.. How much you wanna bet on this because there have been time where i went express from 167/149 to burnside and switch from Express to local BOTH WAYS!.. if they wanted to do that same set up as the (6) north of burnside it can be done!..... or maybe you are not explaining yourself correctly..

 

ok.. i went back and reread... i understand what you are talking about, but parkchester and burnside has the same track set up!!!   The both switch North of the stations......... so what are you talking about?!?!?!?!?

Edited by I Run Trains

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3 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

Well Damn!! i operate The (4) everyday! and you are telling me That there aren't switches on each track?!?!?!?.. How much you wanna bet on this because there have been time where i went express from 167/149 to burnside and switch from Express to local BOTH WAYS!.. if they wanted to do that same set up as the (6) north of burnside it can be done!..... or maybe you are not explaining yourself correctly

That's not what I'm talking about, I'm not saying there aren't any switches I'm saying theres a switch in the wrong place to allow for a (6)<6> setup.

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7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That's not what I'm talking about, I'm not saying there aren't any switches I'm saying theres a switch in the wrong place to allow for a (6)<6> setup.

No its not!!!! its the same set up! so it can do the same as the (6)....

 

 

i correct myself again.. on burnside the North Bound switch are north South Bound are south, but it can still be done!

 

Ok i correct myself AGAIN.. i see your point again and you are kind of correct because for it to get done they would have to get that south bound train out of Middle track so the North bound can get in.. ok your kind of right!

Edited by I Run Trains

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5 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

No its not!!!! its the same set up! so it can do the same as the (6)....

 

 

i correct myself again.. on burnside the North Bound switch are north South Bound are south, but it can still be done!

Maybe if they designed the Jerome line like the concourse line it would work better.....With the Jerome line having just 1 express station somewhat defeat's the purpose of the (4) being express....I would have the (4) express peak am and pm.......Lcl from Woodlawn to Fordham  Then Express from that until 125st  Vice Versa...That's How i would have run it

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Just now, biGC323232 said:

Maybe if they designed the Jerome line like the concourse line it would work better.....With the Jerome line having just 1 express station somewhat defeat's the purpose of the (4) being express....I would have the (4) express peak am and pm.......Lcl from Woodlawn to Fordham  Then Express from that until 125st  Vice Versa...That's How i would have run it

Y'all ask for a lot of unrealistic things! if you go back in history, the Independents made the Lines different for a reason! they wasn't meant to be made alike!...  The (4) is fine the way it is! Passengers are just spoiled!

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18 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

No its not!!!! its the same set up! so it can do the same as the (6)....

 

 

i correct myself again.. on burnside the North Bound switch are north South Bound are south, but it can still be done!

 

Ok i correct myself AGAIN.. i see your point again and you are kind of correct because for it to get done they would have to get that south bound train out of Middle track so the North bound can get in.. ok your kind of right!

Ok… hands off that keyboard until you finish your level 1 grammar homework for Christmas break.

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1 minute ago, I Run Trains said:

Y'all ask for a lot of unrealistic things! if you go back in history, the Independents made the Lines different for a reason! they wasn't meant to be made alike!...  The (4) is fine the way it is! Passengers are just spoiled!

 

2 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

Y'all ask for a lot of unrealistic things! if you go back in history, the Independents made the Lines different for a reason! they wasn't meant to be made alike!...  The (4) is fine the way it is! Passengers are just spoiled!

Im not asking for anything...Im just  voiceing my opinion on the thread started.....I could care less about the (4) in the bronx cause i dont use it....So why are those express tracks built exactly like it if it wasnt meant to be alike....

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5 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

Y'all ask for a lot of unrealistic things! if you go back in history, the Independents made the Lines different for a reason! they wasn't meant to be made alike!...  The (4) is fine the way it is! Passengers are just spoiled!

No it isn't, the (4) is over capacity in the Bronx during the rush hour which is why an express is needed! Woodlawn-->Moshulu-->Burnside-->149th St-->125th St is a perfect express.

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8 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Ok… hands off that keyboard until you finish your level 1 grammar homework for Christmas break.

First off, I'm typing extremely fast not looking over what i typed! secondly watch you're mouth! You don't want that smoke with me!! Stay in you're lane!... 

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5 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

 

Im not asking for anything...Im just  voiceing my opinion on the thread started.....I could care less about the (4) in the bronx cause i dont use it....So why are those express tracks built exactly like it if it wasnt meant to be alike....

i hear you

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Just now, I Run Trains said:

First off, I'm typing extremely fast not looking over what i typed!

That's not how you use the internets… That's how you use text messaging.

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5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

No it isn't, the (4) is over capacity in the Bronx during the rush hour which is why an express is needed! Woodlawn-->Moshulu-->Burnside-->149th St-->125th St is a perfect express.

Nah!........... Thats Not perfect! But ok! 

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1 minute ago, CenSin said:

That's not how you use the internets… That's how you use text messaging.

Its INTERNET!!!!

 

hands off that keyboard until you finish your level 1 grammar homework for Christmas break.

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2 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Oh! so you used it in that way... ok! See... i don't disrespect anybody on here nor do i talk slick talk anybody on here... y'all talk real tough in these forums.. thats why i really don't say much! id give out my run number and schedule and invite some of y'all so say the things y'all say on here to my face, but........... A lot of y'all aint built like that! y'all might run back to Transit and try to report me! lol

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7 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

Oh! so you used it in that way... ok! See... i don't disrespect anybody on here nor do i talk slick talk anybody on here... y'all talk real tough in these forums.. thats why i really don't say much! id give out my run number and schedule and invite some of y'all so say the things y'all say on here to my face, but........... A lot of y'all aint built like that! y'all might run back to Transit and try to report me! lol

So you type like that because you’re texting and “driving?” I wouldn’t put my run number and schedule out there if I were you. That’d be self-reporting—and the primary reason I wrote that first comment.

That you’d take offense from the first comment is a headscratcher, considering the big “Train Operator” badge under your avatar. Did you really think that I thought you were in first grade?

Edited by CenSin

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Can we not have this type of argument on here? It's rather unnecessary. People make mistakes, move on.

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Now that's settled...back to topic...

50 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

No it isn't, the (4) is over capacity in the Bronx during the rush hour which is why an express is needed! Woodlawn-->Moshulu-->Burnside-->149th St-->125th St is a perfect express.

Honestly, dream on. You don't listen anyway and stick by your word. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But that's why they never went back to doing any pilots after that in the first place. Even an (MTA) worker like @I Run Trains saying it confirms it. There's also no such  ridership demand for a Bronx (4) express compared to the Brooklyn (F) express (as proven by all the articles from the local news media, most recently in the middle of this era, before the (MTA) finally made the decision to test it out once more, currently with the two scheduled ones in the AM and PM peaks each). If there's any articles providing more info that there's a demand for a Bronx (4) express, then we can talk some more about that. Until then, I fully agree with @I Run Trains that the (4) stays how it is in the Bronx. Your proposal is just skipping most of the major ridership levels along the Jerome Avenue Line, especially Yankee Stadium, which is the busiest subway station in the Bronx. That's also why during baseball season, they have the (D) Bronx Express in the PM peak stop there.

51 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

 

Im not asking for anything...Im just  voiceing my opinion on the thread started.....I could care less about the (4) in the bronx cause i dont use it....So why are those express tracks built exactly like it if it wasnt meant to be alike....

 

1 hour ago, biGC323232 said:

Maybe if they designed the Jerome line like the concourse line it would work better.....With the Jerome line having just 1 express station somewhat defeat's the purpose of the (4) being express....I would have the (4) express peak am and pm.......Lcl from Woodlawn to Fordham  Then Express from that until 125st  Vice Versa...That's How i would have run it

Just in case anything were to go wrong on the local tracks in either direction, which in this case, trains must run express to go around the issue. Same with all other 3-track lines, with the exception of the (A)'s Liberty Avenue Line in Queens, where the middle track only comes from Pitkin Avenue Yard.

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Amazing how they get away with having the express (D) cross from express to local and back to express after 161. You’d never be able to get away with that on the (7) express at 74th. But it is completely ridiculous that they do this instead of just running the (B) later in The Bronx.

And that’s exactly it. If they want the Concourse line to offer some kind of relief to the (4), then they’ve got to run more (B) local service on it. It’s completely ridiculous that they still don’t after all this time.

Yep. More (B) service and all day Full Concourse Express (D) service and Full Concourse Local (B) service to/from Bedford Park - 10 tph (a train coming 10 times an hour) - and bring the (D)'s 10 tph back so that both Concourse local and express each is maintaining service at 10 tph peak and reverse peak, and 6 tph off-peak. See how well 6 minute headways on both Concourse local and express plays out, and then we can talk about add a bit more service afterwards. It would help bring some relief to the Jerome Avenue Line. One small change can let to another.

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6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

No, theres one switch that's not in the right place that allows a (6)<6> setup, which is the NB local to Express switch, which should be South of Burnside Av, not north to allow local (4) trains to terminate.

You're confusing the (6) / <6> at Parkchester with the (F) / <F> at Kings Highway. If you want a setup like the (6) at Parkchester, it's actually the southbound switches that are in the wrong place. The southbound switches should be north of Burnside to allow the local trains to relay on the middle track using the aforementioned NB switch to the express track, then reverse using the non-existent SB switch from express to local. The <4> in the peak direction would need to move between the local and express track north of Burnside like the <6> at Parkchester and the local trains need to stay on the local tracks, or else you'll have conflicting moves on the middle track in the evening.

 

5 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

.I would have the (4) express peak am and pm.......Lcl from Woodlawn to Fordham  Then Express from that until 125st  Vice Versa...That's How i would have run it

The (D) does that already.

5 hours ago, I Run Trains said:

The (4) is fine the way it is! Passengers are just spoiled!

Run patterns are fine, but it needs a couple more trains per hour between September and June during the early shoulder.

 

4 hours ago, Jemorie said:

More (B) service and all day Full Concourse Express (D) service and Full Concourse Local (B) service to/from Bedford Park - 10 tph (a train coming 10 times an hour) - and bring the (D)'s 10 tph back so that both Concourse local and express each is maintaining service at 10 tph peak and reverse peak, and 6 tph off-peak. See how well 6 minute headways on both Concourse local and express plays out, and then we can talk about add a bit more service afterwards. It would help bring some relief to the Jerome Avenue Line. One small change can let to another.

More (B) and (D) service during the rush hours, yes.

Midday (B) and (D) isn't really needed right now unless they keep tanking the (4) north of 167 with daily GO's.

Weekends is a whole other animal. They can't be piling on GO's on both lines like what they've been doing lately. 3 tph on Jerome and 0 tph on the Concourse at local stops between 170th and 183rd is just absurd.

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7 hours ago, I Run Trains said:

First off, I'm typing extremely fast not looking over what i typed! secondly watch you're mouth! You don't want that smoke with me!! Stay in you're lane!... 

I’m crying he really going off 😂

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8 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Midday (B) and (D) isn't really needed right now unless they keep tanking the (4) north of 167 with daily GO's.

It’s not about it being needed, it’s a given...it’s 2019 and more expanded service, the better. We’re never gonna attract ridership if we continue running the same service levels. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve experienced heavy crowding on (D) trains to Yankee Stadium after 7 p.m. (when (B) service to/from Bedford Park ends) during baseball season. Turning the (B) at 145th Street during middays and evenings causes delays to the (A)(C)(D) anyway. Long story short.

They shouldn’t be tanking the (4) every now and then with these half-ass closures like they still do anyway. Jerome Avenue should always have a full-shutdown every weekend for 2-3 months per year during non-baseball season, with free shuttle buses and the (D) train providing alternate service. I always tell you this, including on the chatbox.

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