Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Around the Horn]

To be quite frank, the Metrocard replacement provides the perfect opportunity to make the SBS brand obsolete. Install fare readers on the front and back doors and implement all-door boarding on all routes. That alone is gonna speed up service, especially since you won't even need to get the card out of your wallet of purse.

 

Tap and go. Just install street improvements on the corridors that need it and the solution is there. I've been waiting for an entire year, hoping someone made that point at the board meeting. But none yet.

 

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

 

THIS^ 100 times.

[Cait Sith]

To be quite frank, the Metrocard replacement provides the perfect opportunity to make the SBS brand obsolete. Install fare readers on the front and back doors and implement all-door boarding on all routes. That alone is gonna speed up service, especially since you won't even need to get the card out of your wallet of purse.

 

Tap and go. Just install street improvements on the corridors that need it and the solution is there. I've been waiting for an entire year, hoping someone made that point at the board meeting. But none yet.

 

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

 

100% agreed.

 

Seattle has that same concept you are talking about for their RapidRide BRT service, and it speeds up service tenfold. With their Orca card smartcard system, they scan either in or out of the bus. Fare checkers uses their tools to scan the card to ensure that passengers paid.

 

On the local bus side of things. It speeds up the boarding process by a lot, even when people fumble for cash fare.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Cait Sith

[East New York]

To be quite frank, the Metrocard replacement provides the perfect opportunity to make the SBS brand obsolete. Install fare readers on the front and back doors and implement all-door boarding on all routes. That alone is gonna speed up service, especially since you won't even need to get the card out of your wallet of purse.

Tap and go. Just install street improvements on the corridors that need it and the solution is there. I've been waiting for an entire year, hoping someone made that point at the board meeting. But none yet.

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

 

That's actually 100% NOT True..... That's why no one has made the claim at a board meeting, and if they do it will be shot down immediately. The SmartCard is meant to speed up local service. Everyone will still have to tap and go. You also have to factor in how many people per day many have to actually take the card out of their walled because it won't register. If anyone has the new RFID safe wallet you will have to take it out. That will never be faster than tap and go at a MVM and jumping on the bus at all doors at anytime. With SmartCard, everyone will still have to wait in line and board the front door. Even though it will be faster it still could never be as fast as off-board payment. Period.

 

But does the MTA get the revenue for the fines or does it go to the city? Why can't we have some transparency?

 

I am not against off-Board fare payment as long as it can be shown that the time savings are significant and not miniscule. When making that calculation missing the bus should be part of the equation and not just ignored.

MTA gets the revenue from all the fines, and it is added to the On-Hand operating funds. And you ask for transparency from an agency that's run by a state! Other than MTA.info and East New York....Good luck with that! Lol Edited June 20, 2017 by East New York

[Around the Horn]

That's actually 100% NOT True..... That's why no one has made the claim at a board meeting, and if they do it will be shot down immediately. The SmartCard is meant to speed up local service. Everyone will still have to tap and go. You also have to factor in how many people per day many have to actually take the card out of their walled because it won't register. If anyone has the new RFID safe wallet you will have to take it out. That will never be faster than tap and go at a MVM and jumping on the bus at all doors at anytime. With SmartCard, everyone will still have to wait in line and board the front door. Even though it will be faster it still could never be as fast as off-board payment. Period.

 

What about SmartCards with all door boarding?

[BreeddekalbL]

what about tap cards like in los angeles?

[Around the Horn]

what about tap cards like in los angeles?

 

lol that is a smart card.

[bobtehpanda]

Paris already uses all-door smartcard readers, I don't see why that isn't feasible here.

 

Side note: has the MTA ever considered bench seating on SBS buses, to improve capacity?

Edited June 21, 2017 by bobtehpanda

[BrooklynBus]

As if passengers don't miss the bus when they have to pay with their Metrocard? The other thing that I don't get is how you can't conclude that off-fare payment is faster than dipping your Metrocard?  Do you really think that 30 people dipping their Metrocard on a bus is as fast as having the same 30 people pre-pay and then board the bus through all available doors?

And why would someone miss the bus because he is paying with his MetroCard? Not everyone has it ready before they board. Many board, then take it out later and then pay.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And why would someone miss the bus because he is paying with his MetroCard? Not everyone has it ready before they board. Many board, then take it out later and then pay.

For the same reason SBS riders do: they just get to the stop when the bus is about to take off.

[LTA1992]

That's actually 100% NOT True..... That's why no one has made the claim at a board meeting, and if they do it will be shot down immediately. The SmartCard is meant to speed up local service. Everyone will still have to tap and go. You also have to factor in how many people per day many have to actually take the card out of their walled because it won't register. If anyone has the new RFID safe wallet you will have to take it out. That will never be faster than tap and go at a MVM and jumping on the bus at all doors at anytime. With SmartCard, everyone will still have to wait in line and board the front door. Even though it will be faster it still could never be as fast as off-board payment. Period.

 

MTA gets the revenue from all the fines, and it is added to the On-Hand operating funds. And you ask for transparency from an agency that's run by a state! Other than MTA.info and East New York....Good luck with that! Lol

This type of thinking right here... It appalls me that you can type that nonsense with such arrogance. I've seen what a system like that can do first hand on very crowded local routes in Paris. Seeing the amount of people that were able to board in such a short amount of time was refreshing and that was what activated that thought process in the first place. If I never took that trip, the idea would not have come out of my mouth. Hell, I think I brought it up not long after when a similar discussion popped up back in late 2015. So I don't need you being condescending.

 

If you board through two doors instead of one, you've already doubled the speed of the boarding process on top of the gains achieved by the new card. Three door buses essentially triple that. The readers themselves would be the size of a really small purse. 5 to 6 inches across diagonally. Place one on each side of the doorways of the front and back. Not as hard as you make it seem.

 

And fines? Only an idiot would think that any organization that makes money from fines would want to lose too much of that. But at the same time, progress should not be stopped because of archaic thinking.

 

The smartest brains are truly never in charge.

Edited June 21, 2017 by LTA1992

[Yankees4life]

I'm hoping for a B41 SBS but I guess I'll have to wait for that in 2020...

[BrooklynBus]

For the same reason SBS riders do: they just get to the stop when the bus is about to take off.

You are not making any sense. The people who miss the bus because they pay with a MetroCard are the same people who would still miss the bus if they pay with cash which happened all the time before we had MetroCards. The people who I am talking about arrive at the bus stop in time to board but can't take it because they did not buy their receipt yet. Also on non SBS routes if you see a bus coming and you are not quite at the bus stop yet, you can flag down the bus so that you arrive at the stop the same time as the bus. You can't do that with SBS. And if one of the machines is not working or Sobel e is in front of you using it, your chances of missing the bus are greater.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You are not making any sense. The people who miss the bus because they pay with a MetroCard are the same people who would still miss the bus if they pay with cash which happened all the time before we had MetroCards. The people who I am talking about arrive at the bus stop in time to board but can't take it because they did not buy their receipt yet. Also on non SBS routes if you see a bus coming and you are not quite at the bus stop yet, you can flag down the bus so that you arrive at the stop the same time as the bus. You can't do that with SBS. And if one of the machines is not working or Sobel e is in front of you using it, your chances of missing the bus are greater.

I'm making perfect sense.  The moral of the story is arrive at the bus stop in time to get your receipt, and if you don't, then you wait for the next bus.  Most SBS stops now have countdown clocks telling you how many stops away a bus is, and there's also BusTime which I use when I want to see where buses are. Put it on in advance before leaving your location and 9 times out of 10 you're good to go.  It's 2017.  People need to get with the technology because it isn't going to wait for anyone. People have to learn to adapt and move with the times or be left behind, and that also applies for the bus system.  We cannot sit here and babysit everyone because they're too lazy to get with it.  Bus service has to be sped up.  It's that simple.  This is a technology that has been out going back to my college days in other places that I lived in that were considerably smaller (Bologna in Italy is a small college town, and Florence is a small town with no subway system that relies heavily on its bus network), and somehow, NYC is struggling to roll out such a service. It's pathetic.

 

You are looking for any reason to slam SBS, and it's beyond ridiculous at this point with your nitpicking.  No, the system isn't perfect and I suspect that this "problem" that you keep going on and on about can be remedied with smart cards in the near future.  Either way, paying in advance speeds up the boarding process, and there is no way that you can sit here and say otherwise.  Feel free to look at how much time is saved overall on the trip, but you are not going to sit here and try to convince us that 30 people going through one door and dipping with their Metrocard (assuming they even have it out in the first place) is faster than having people pay in advance and board through all three doors simultaneously.  If you spent more time using some of the SBS routes instead of complaining about why they aren't good, you could see some of the benefits they provide.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[MysteriousBtrain]

You are not making any sense. The people who miss the bus because they pay with a MetroCard are the same people who would still miss the bus if they pay with cash which happened all the time before we had MetroCards. The people who I am talking about arrive at the bus stop in time to board but can't take it because they did not buy their receipt yet. Also on non SBS routes if you see a bus coming and you are not quite at the bus stop yet, you can flag down the bus so that you arrive at the stop the same time as the bus. You can't do that with SBS. And if one of the machines is not working or Sobel e is in front of you using it, your chances of missing the bus are greater.

You could always buy an SBS ticket well before the bus comes and you can flag the driver if needed. And God forbid the machine doesn't work, (although I bet some people don't know) you could always board the bus and get the ticket at the next stop or explain to the inspectors that the machine isn't working at their stop.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You could always buy an SBS ticket well before the bus comes and you can flag the driver if needed. And God forbid the machine doesn't work, (although I bet some people don't know) you could always board the bus and get the ticket at the next stop or explain to the inspectors that the machine isn't working at their stop.

It's happened to me too on the M15.  The machines were completely OFF at 34th and 2nd.  We all boarded accordingly, told the driver and I got off at the next stop at the front door, got my ticket and the driver waited for me to get back on the bus.  I don't see what the big deal is.  There's only a handful of buses that run like crap with SBS in terms of frequencies, and the one that comes to mind is the M34/M34A.  I rarely am in a situation where the bus is coming and I can't get it in time.  For the M86, I can count the times that I haven't been able to get my ticket in time, and the next bus wasn't that far away.

[East New York]

This type of thinking right here... It appalls me that you can type that nonsense with such arrogance. I've seen what a system like that can do first hand on very crowded local routes in Paris. Seeing the amount of people that were able to board in such a short amount of time was refreshing and that was what activated that thought process in the first place. If I never took that trip, the idea would not have come out of my mouth. Hell, I think I brought it up not long after when a similar discussion popped up back in late 2015. So I don't need you being condescending.

 

If you board through two doors instead of one, you've already doubled the speed of the boarding process on top of the gains achieved by the new card. Three door buses essentially triple that. The readers themselves would be the size of a really small purse. 5 to 6 inches across diagonally. Place one on each side of the doorways of the front and back. Not as hard as you make it seem.

 

And fines? Only an idiot would think that any organization that makes money from fines would want to lose too much of that. But at the same time, progress should not be stopped because of archaic thinking.

 

The smartest brains are truly never in charge.

First of all, I am a bit confused as to what you are talking about. Nothing in what I said was arrogant. I simply posted the facts. Period. MTA has evaluated all of that, however the last report I saw said that even if all door boarding was introduced it would be anytime soon. MTA is at least 2 times larger than the second largest agency which is LACMTA.

 

You are the one who took this as being condescending which is something ENY is not. If I was, none of you would like me and quite frankly this forum may not even be here. I'm am quite well aware of how things operate and it's blatantly obvious the boarding through all door is faster.

 

With the new fareboxes, it will be harder to enforce payment at a rear door and MTA has to make some decisions when it comes to that....

 

What I said was valid, and obviously you can't take a joke. Clearly anyone who knows anything about the MTA knows my Transparacy comment was a shot at the MTA. So why are you taking things personal when they have nothing to do with you?

 

My joke at the same time is a valid comment. Good luck getting transparency from anywhere other than MTA.info right now.

 

You make it sound as if I'm the one who's the cause for them not being better when it's quite obvious. Many of the improvements today were direct results of my contributions and consulting with the MTA

 

So please tell me what about my comments was arrogant or condescending when I'm only posting facts???

Edited June 21, 2017 by East New York

[Via Garibaldi 8]

With the new fareboxes, it will be harder to enforce payment at a rear door and MTA has to make some decisions when it comes to that....

Can you clarify why the new fareboxes would be so complicated? I don't get it.  Why can't they revert to a more simplified system?  There is nothing that says fareboxes have to accept coins.  

[East New York]

Can you clarify why the new fareboxes would be so complicated? I don't get it. Why can't they revert to a more simplified system? There is nothing that says fareboxes have to accept coins.

 

What we will likely end up with is some custom MTA spec fare payment system. The thing is, it will likely be able to accept change as well. Not everyone will have immediate access to a SmartCard if they are not near an MVM.

 

There are two types of fare payment system options. Front door, and multi-door. You can tap and go or simply pass and go at either door, however the new farebox itself will still be in the front of the bus.

 

With back door option, it opens an entry way loophole for even more farebeaters. If they slip though with a paying passenger the who's to know they are on the bus other than the auto-counters?

 

In cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, and Detroit where there are lots of farebeaters these agencies have elected to keep the tap and go at the front location only in the front.

 

We will likely be going in the same direction, however the farebox will still accept coins most likely and tap and go will just be added to the SBS vending machines. Farebox don't have to accept doing but they do. Almost everywhere. You are shutting people out who may not travel enough to need a card, they are visiting and don't want a card, or maybe an elderly person in a wheelchair decides to get on the bus and still has change and not a card. This would now mean non of them can get on the bus until they go find a vending machine. That's not fair accessable transit.

 

We are trying to attract rides and that type of thinking is why the MTA is having so many problem right now. For decades they haven't taken into account everyone or every factor in each scenario.

 

So yee, we can have rear door access, but the farebox isn't going anywhere, and it will open the door to a wave of new farebeaters. Who's going to be checking to make sure people are paying at the back door?

Edited June 21, 2017 by East New York

[Cait Sith]

With back door option, it opens an entry way loophole for even more farebeaters. If they slip though with a paying passenger the who's to know they are on the bus other than the auto-counters?

 

That's where the fare enforcement checkers usually come to play. When I rode the RapidRide routes out west(which practically has the same concept as LTA1992 mentioned), they would either check receipts or scan smartcards to ensure that people paid their fare. The means and the technology is there, it's just very dependent on how the MTA implements such things into motion, and as we all know, they're not very good at that and they need to double down on fare enforcement. It's not completely impossible, it just depends on who implements it and how it's implemented.

 

I would think that the common ground of all BRT-type services is that there will be farebeaters regardless. But the key problem is enforcement. That's where all transit systems in North America would have to step up on that. The only examples I can provide out of personal experience would be King County Metro & Community Transit. King County would have fare checkers near two ends of the lines and/or busy stops along the lines. Community Transit is almost the same in that regard for the SWIFT BRT service.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Cait Sith

[Around the Horn]

Well, couldn't you turn the paper bus transfers into a transfer and a proof of payment receipt?

 

As long as you tell people in the changeover that if they pay with coins they must make sure to 1) take the transfer from the firebox and 2) keep it with them, you now have a way to differentiate between people who paid their fare in coins and farebeaters, while allowing all door boarding for people with smart cards.

 

Passengers would either show fare inspectors their smart card or the back of their paper transfer/POP receipt which has the date, time, bus route and bus number on which the fare was paid. Same thing with SingleRide Tickets (if people actually choose to use those on buses)

[LTA1992]

That's where the fare enforcement checkers usually come to play. When I rode the RapidRide routes out west(which practically has the same concept as LTA1992 mentioned), they would either check receipts or scan smartcards to ensure that people paid their fare. The means and the technology is there, it's just very dependent on how the MTA implements such things into motion, and as we all know, they're not very good at that and they need to double down on fare enforcement. It's not completely impossible, it just depends on who implements it and how it's implemented.

 

I would think that the common ground of all BRT-type services is that there will be farebeaters regardless. But the key problem is enforcement. That's where all transit systems in North America would have to step up on that. The only examples I can provide out of personal experience would be King County Metro & Community Transit. King County would have fare checkers near two ends of the lines and/or busy stops along the lines. Community Transit is almost the same in that regard for the SWIFT BRT service.

Thing is, you likely need less people to do that than whats currently employed for Eagle Team AND the checks would be accurate as opposed to the current ticket checking structure which allows for people getting off the bus to give their tickets to someone else. Jack up the fine to and set a few examples and publicize them. The fine alone is gonna be newsworthy.

 

One or two people get on a bus with a reader.

 

Tap. Move. Tap. Move. Tap and it shows an empty or unused card? Ticket right then and there. And you keep it moving. You won't even have to keep the bus at the stop either. Yeah, that person can get to their destination but  they now owe 500 bucks. I'm sure the data is also saved in case someone tries to sue or get around paying.

 

We cannot continue to stay behind on every front because some people may be left behind. Humans ain't stay around this long because we can't adapt. Those people will have to to. Visitors? They can do like they already do with the MetroCard. Buy the shit. Or hell, you can implement a card just for visitors ala Navigo Decouverte. This system is also supposed to be useable with your phone and bankcards as well so in reality, almost no one should be left out. If I remember correctly, it was said by the very people in charge of the program that the MTA issued cards is more for the people who don't have the other two options.

 

People will try to beat the fare no matter what you do.

Edited June 21, 2017 by LTA1992

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What we will likely end up with is some custom MTA spec fare payment system. The thing is, it will likely be able to accept change as well. Not everyone will have immediate access to a SmartCard if they are not near an MVM.

 

There are two types of fare payment system options. Front door, and multi-door. You can tap and go or simply pass and go at either door, however the new farebox itself will still be in the front of the bus.

 

With back door option, it opens an entry way loophole for even more farebeaters. If they slip though with a paying passenger the who's to know they are on the bus other than the auto-counters?

 

In cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, and Detroit where there are lots of farebeaters these agencies have elected to keep the tap and go at the front location only in the front.

 

We will likely be going in the same direction, however the farebox will still accept coins most likely and tap and go will just be added to the SBS vending machines. Farebox don't have to accept doing but they do. Almost everywhere. You are shutting people out who may not travel enough to need a card, they are visiting and don't want a card, or maybe an elderly person in a wheelchair decides to get on the bus and still has change and not a card. This would now mean non of them can get on the bus until they go find a vending machine. That's not fair accessable transit.

 

We are trying to attract rides and that type of thinking is why the MTA is having so many problem right now. For decades they haven't taken into account everyone or every factor in each scenario.

 

So yee, we can have rear door access, but the farebox isn't going anywhere, and it will open the door to a wave of new farebeaters. Who's going to be checking to make sure people are paying at the back door?

This farebeating obsession is out of control.  Limiting speediness and reliability of buses is why we're in the mess that we're in.  The paying public deserves better.  I also don't think it's necessary to have four or five guys for each bus checking tickets.  It's overkill.  I find the whole thing disgusting, as if they're the Gestapo or something. In other places, there's one inspector.  He comes on the bus, checks tickets and those who don't have one are given a fine, and you pay and that's it.  This whole process is over the top. If they're that concerned with farebeating, address it on a consistent basis.  

 

I also disagree with the idea of accepting change.  Have one payment system and make it easily accessible.  The way the Metrocard is set up makes accessibility almost impossible if you don't live near a subway station, and even when you do, if the MVMs are not working you're back to square one unless there's a clerk nearby.  Just this morning, I had to walk 15 - 20 minutes to 242nd for an express bus Metrocard (stocked up and go several of them) since the only store near me is always out of them.  You're not attracting any riders with the current snail service that we have, and the excuse that people need coins is just that.  An excuse.  People should be able to pay online or use other electronic means of payment.  In Italy, payment was made using tickets, and there were Tabacchi stands all over the place. You get your tickets there and you're on your way.  

 

You stop farebeating by enforcing the fare, not by having the farebox in front of the bus.  The driver's responsibility is to drive, and the sooner we get back to that, the better service will be. Let the Eagle Team enforce the fare.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

So according to you n

I'm making perfect sense. The moral of the story is arrive at the bus stop in time to get your receipt, and if you don't, then you wait for the next bus. Most SBS stops now have countdown clocks telling you how many stops away a bus is, and there's also BusTime which I use when I want to see where buses are. Put it on in advance before leaving your location and 9 times out of 10 you're good to go. It's 2017. People need to get with the technology because it isn't going to wait for anyone. People have to learn to adapt and move with the times or be left behind, and that also applies for the bus system. We cannot sit here and babysit everyone because they're too lazy to get with it. Bus service has to be sped up. It's that simple. This is a technology that has been out going back to my college days in other places that I lived in that were considerably smaller (Bologna in Italy is a small college town, and Florence is a small town with no subway system that relies heavily on its bus network), and somehow, NYC is struggling to roll out such a service. It's pathetic.

 

You are looking for any reason to slam SBS, and it's beyond ridiculous at this point with your nitpicking. No, the system isn't perfect and I suspect that this "problem" that you keep going on and on about can be remedied with smart cards in the near future. Either way, paying in advance speeds up the boarding process, and there is no way that you can sit here and say otherwise. Feel free to look at how much time is saved overall on the trip, but you are not going to sit here and try to convince us that 30 people going through one door and dipping with their Metrocard (assuming they even have it out in the first place) is faster than having people pay in advance and board through all three doors simultaneously. If you spent more time using some of the SBS routes instead of complaining about why they aren't good, you could see some of the benefits they provide.

So according to you, no one should ever use a bus without first checking BusTime. Good luck with that one.

 

And yes you are not making any sense. The fact is you have a greater chance to miss an SBS bus than a regular bus. I am not saying that is a reason never to have to pay your fare before you Board which seems to be the way you are interpreting my comment.

 

On the other hand, you make it seem that ever single stop which has SBS HAS 30 people getting on and off which is not true. There are many SBS stops with only one person getting on or off where it just doesn't save any time.

 

All I am saying is that before you decide on having fares prepaid, you first decide if it is worth the the extra expense by considering all relevant factors, and missing a bus because of SBS is one of those relevant factors which should not be ignored.

Edited June 21, 2017 by BrooklynBus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So according to you n So according to you, no one should ever use a bus without first checking BusTime. Good luck with that one.

 

And yes you are not making any sense. The fact is you have a greater chance to miss an SBS bus than a regular bus. I am not saying that is a reason never to have to pay your fare before you Board which seems to be the way you are interpreting my comment.

 

On the other hand, you make it seem that ever single stop which has SBS HAS 30 people getting on and off which is not true. There are many SBS stops with only one person getting on or off where it just doesn't save any time.

 

All I am saying is that before you decide on having fares prepaid, you first decide if it is worth the the extra expense by considering all relevant factors, and missing a bus because of SBS is one of those relevant factors which should not be ignored.

What I said was arrive at the stop in advance so you can get your ticket.  It's that simple.  You're the first one to sit and criticize bus service and how poor it is, and then you turn around and complain when attempts are made to speed up service. I'm sorry, but the status quo can't remain.  It seems as if you want bus service to remain in a time warp.  We have to move forward and speed up service.  There are very few stops where just "one" person is boarding, but nice try.  I for one am sick of people taking their sweet damn time to get on and pay.  This is not a social club.  Get on the bus, pay, take a damn seat and keep it moving.  That's the problem... Everyone wants to be so important and seen. It must be a cultural thing here in the States, because elsewhere, no one does this.  People board, pay, take a seat and keep it moving. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[East New York]

That's where the fare enforcement checkers usually come to play. When I rode the RapidRide routes out west(which practically has the same concept as LTA1992 mentioned), they would either check receipts or scan smartcards to ensure that people paid their fare. The means and the technology is there, it's just very dependent on how the MTA implements such things into motion, and as we all know, they're not very good at that and they need to double down on fare enforcement. It's not completely impossible, it just depends on who implements it and how it's implemented

 

All of this was supposed to be done a long time ago. However, it has become a lot harder now that MTA Bus is in the fold. If it was just NYCT we would already have new tech, but Bus Company which is being fully merged into TA has to be part of all this as well.

 

I would think that the common ground of all BRT-type services is that there will be farebeaters regardless. But the key problem is enforcement. That's where all transit systems in North America would have to step up on that. The only examples I can provide out of personal experience would be King County Metro & Community Transit. King County would have fare checkers near two ends of the lines and/or busy stops along the lines. Community Transit is almost the same in that regard for the SWIFT BRT service.

 

LACMTA has fare enforcement agents with handheld verifying machines which we will likely have in the future as well. Especially with the new fare payment setup. My whole thing is if we add rear door payment, and we will be the only agency with it, the associated costs will rise even more. I know the tech is there because I have used it myself. Thing is, the number one issue is as you said enforcement. It's just not a smart move for any of the 4 largest agencies in the country to have rear door payment on a local bus unless they have money to blow.

 

Thing is, you likely need less people to do that than whats currently employed for Eagle Team AND the checks would be accurate as opposed to the current ticket checking structure which allows for people getting off the bus to give their tickets to someone else. Jack up the fine to and set a few examples and publicize them. The fine alone is gonna be newsworthy.

 

One or two people get on a bus with a reader.

 

Tap. Move. Tap. Move. Tap and it shows an empty or unused card? Ticket right then and there. And you keep it moving. You won't even have to keep the bus at the stop either. Yeah, that person can get to their destination but they now owe 500 bucks. I'm sure the data is also saved in case someone tries to sue or get around paying.

 

We cannot continue to stay behind on every front because some people may be left behind. Humans ain't stay around this long because we can't adapt. Those people will have to to. Visitors? They can do like they already do with the MetroCard. Buy the shit. Or hell, you can implement a card just for visitors ala Navigo Decouverte. This system is also supposed to be useable with your phone and bankcards as well so in reality, almost no one should be left out. If I remember correctly, it was said by the very people in charge of the program that the MTA issued cards is more for the people who don't have the other two options.

 

People will try to beat the fare no matter what you do.

How would we possibly need less people than we have now? If this was introduced into 6,000 buses it's going to cause operating costs to skyrocket. Adding 1-2 people to a bus with a reader is not feasible unless it's restricted to SBS which will still need 3-4 people. Some of this shouldn't even be an argument since it's on the horizon anyway. Adding this to local would cause for a need of at least 5,000 to 10,000 new fare enforcement officers. And raising the fine will just cause less people to pay it. Plenty of people don't even pay the $100 fine now. If you raise that time the number of people who don't pay will skyrocket.

 

Not only that, MTA is not willing to nor is it interested in not accepting coins. Ever other large agency does and it's still millions of dollars worth of ok income each week. Service is supposed to be convenient for any and everyone. Not just for a few.

 

Some people don't have smart phones and therefore do not have access to BusTime. You can't force someone to do something but you can push it... Why force a visitor to pay for a card that they don't need? Hundreds of millions of people visit NYC each year and many of them prefer to save a dollar and use change.

Edited June 21, 2017 by East New York