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Lawrence St

Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

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11 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

The Mayor today stated that he will not contribute one more penny until the MTA receives a complete audit. That is what I call "chutzpah!"

The MTA is already the most audited agency in the whole state, so demanding another audit is a bit disingenuous.  Plus, the politicians who loudly demand audits never discuss one key finding: how much the MTA has to spend on audits.

 

 

6 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

That would be nice if they could do that before enacting more and more taxes, fees and toll hikes

State law actually requires fare and toll increases every two years. It was part of the 2010 "bailout" passed by the same state legislators who now complain that the MTA is actually complying with their law.

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8 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

They wanted to minimize redundant routes so breaking it off Hillside ASAP is probably the result of that, also the Shopping Center is a source of jobs, the Remix app has that information.  By going past the shopping center and to the Hospital it increases the value of the network.

I get minimizing redundancy but there comes a point where you're just shooting yourself in the foot. 24 minute off-peak headways on a densely populated corridor doesn't make sense. It was the MTA themselves who seemed to prefer frequency over coverage and this is the opposite. (Either way, you can route the QT34 to the hospital, that's fine and will be a benefit)

 

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22 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

What about the elimination of the Little Neck Parkway extension of the Q36?

It's a moot point. People would rather travel east on the n22 or 24 to catch the n25 at New Hyde Park Road for LIJ and North Shore University Hospital, and Northern Blvd, or use the same n24 on Jericho Turnpike for Jamaica travel. The n24 always gets crowded whenever the Q36 doesn't show up.

As for the Q36, it's now in an awkward position where Floral Park wants to oust that route off 257th so they can eliminate some stops along Jericho. 

In short, more people around the 257th-268th Street area would rather take the n22 and n24 into Queens for a faster commute than wait for the Q36 and Q43 to go into service. 

 

 

Edited by NY1635

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1 hour ago, NY1635 said:

It's a moot point. People would rather travel east on the n22 or 24 to catch the n25 at New Hyde Park Road for LIJ and North Shore University Hospital, and Northern Blvd, or use the same n24 on Jericho Turnpike for Jamaica travel. The n24 always gets crowded whenever the Q36 doesn't show up.

As for the Q36, it's now in an awkward position where Floral Park wants to oust that route off 257th so they can eliminate some stops along Jericho. 

In short, more people around the 257th-268th Street area would rather take the n22 and n24 into Queens for a faster commute than wait for the Q36 and Q43 to go into service.

The guy's asking about coverage along Little Neck Pkwy. & you're making a point out of riders using NICE bus routes over the MTA routes for east-west travel.....

Service along LNP may be debatable, but your point here is f***ing irrelevant.....

11 hours ago, Cain said:

Dumb question(s):

  • What does the Runtime metric on the Remix map of the redesign mean? Is that the entire round trip plus the layover time?
  • Layover I assume means how long a bus would wait at the terminus before leaving?
  • How is the Speed metric calculated? It seems really slow to be honest, even during rush hour - for some of the lines.

tVfFaq.jpg

* The runtime stat is indicative of that of a roundtrip.... Layover time doesn't factor into it....
There's an ellipsis button on the right-most edge of each row... You click that & it states "Type   Roundtrip"....

* Yeah, layover time is the amount of (non-revenue) time elapsed between a bus' arrival at one terminal & its departure from that same terminal....

* They're using math to derive by the speed metric.....

  • The route distance they state is 17.63 miles.... Let's use the 5am-9am slot at the example - The runtime metric listed for that slot is 155.2 mins (2.58 hrs).... To calculate distance, you divide the distance by the runtime.....
    • 17.63 miles / 2.58 hrs = 6.83 mph thumbup.png

========================================================================================

side note: Looking at the map for the Q54, it's HIGHLY questionable how buses are getting between Rodney/Grand & Williamsburg Bridge Plaza..

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18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

And Winchester Blvd is so much higher-density and higher ridership?

MTA's excuse is probably something pithy about runtimes and how a few minutes is gonna push it over the limit require one extra bus and driver.

Quite frankly, I think the area around Little Neck in the redesign has too much service as it is; why is the new Q12 running down Marathon to LNP? Why is the QT87 going out of its way to serve LNP?

12 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

also the Shopping Center is a source of jobs, the Remix app has that information.

LNP is small even for a local shopping center. Starbucks, Panera, Chipotle and Petco are not pulling in even hundreds of workers.

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3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

It's a moot point. People would rather travel east on the n22 or 24 to catch the n25 at New Hyde Park Road for LIJ and North Shore University Hospital, and Northern Blvd, or use the same n24 on Jericho Turnpike for Jamaica travel. The n24 always gets crowded whenever the Q36 doesn't show up.

As for the Q36, it's now in an awkward position where Floral Park wants to oust that route off 257th so they can eliminate some stops along Jericho. 

In short, more people around the 257th-268th Street area would rather take the n22 and n24 into Queens for a faster commute than wait for the Q36 and Q43 to go into service. 

 

 

1. That only really makes sense at the county line, where the walking time to the Nassau bus stop is 1-2 minutes. No one is dragging their ass from LNP to the county line just to take a Nassau bus.

2. Nassau runs shitty frequencies, it's not as if Nassau is going to increase service due to MTA service cuts.

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35 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

1. That only really makes sense at the county line, where the walking time to the Nassau bus stop is 1-2 minutes. No one is dragging their ass from LNP to the county line just to take a Nassau bus.

2. Nassau runs shitty frequencies, it's not as if Nassau is going to increase service due to MTA service cuts.

He's making this into a NICE bus vs. an MTA thing & it's not applicable..... Even if you do or don't believe service along LNP is justified, it's simply not relevant whether people are taking n22's over Q43's, or whether people are taking n24's over Q36's.... It's like he says shit just to try to fit in....

Edited by B35 via Church

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4 hours ago, NY1635 said:

It's a moot point. People would rather travel east on the n22 or 24 to catch the n25 at New Hyde Park Road for LIJ and North Shore University Hospital, and Northern Blvd, or use the same n24 on Jericho Turnpike for Jamaica travel. The n24 always gets crowded whenever the Q36 doesn't show up.

As for the Q36, it's now in an awkward position where Floral Park wants to oust that route off 257th so they can eliminate some stops along Jericho. 

In short, more people around the 257th-268th Street area would rather take the n22 and n24 into Queens for a faster commute than wait for the Q36 and Q43 to go into service. 

 

 

Remind me what year is this?. When was the last time the (MTA) invested in Long Island?  All this MTA vs NICE is completely out of reach. 

8 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

He's making this into a NICE bus vs. an MTA thing & it's not applicable..... Even if you do or don't believe service along LNP is justified, it's simply not relevant whether people are taking n22's over Q43's, or whether people are taking n24's over Q36's.... It's like he says shit just to try to fit in....

The accuracy of this statement. 

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

To calculate distance, you divide the distance by the runtime

Ouch..... That should read "To calculate the speed, you divide the distance by the runtime"
(speed = distance / time)

side note: that distance listed for the QT54 (17.63 miles) is a round trip distance....

 

40 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Remind me what year is this?. When was the last time the (MTA) invested in Long Island?  All this MTA vs NICE is completely out of reach.

NICE bus is making the strides that it's making, and that's great..... However, much of nobody residing in Queens is tryna hear about that right now, when their service stands to have some type of alteration made to it....

Edited by B35 via Church

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7 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

State law actually requires fare and toll increases every two years. It was part of the 2010 "bailout" passed by the same state legislators who now complain that the MTA is actually complying with their law.

LOL yes, and it's all a show, even some board members have pointed out that it's unsustainable. The question is, will they just complain about it, or actually pass another law removing that requirement?

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I get minimizing redundancy but there comes a point where you're just shooting yourself in the foot. 24 minute off-peak headways on a densely populated corridor doesn't make sense. It was the MTA themselves who seemed to prefer frequency over coverage and this is the opposite. (Either way, you can route the QT34 to the hospital, that's fine and will be a benefit)

 

   I'm not sure I understand this argument. Hillside Ave will have 3 routes, the route with 24 minute off-peak headway is the QT34 which branches off of the corridor.

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

LNP is small even for a local shopping center. Starbucks, Panera, Chipotle and Petco are not pulling in even hundreds of workers.

I was referring to the route that goes by the Douglaston Center and Hospital (QT34). By serving those destinations it boosts the stats of the route.

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56 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I was referring to the route that goes by the Douglaston Center and Hospital (QT34). By serving those destinations it boosts the stats of the route.

Douglaston Center is basically a failed mall - Movie World is closed, Macy's is closed, Burger King is closed. Hillside Avenue has more commercial activity than Douglaston.

The hospital is a better reason.

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5 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Douglaston Center is basically a failed mall - Movie World is closed, Macy's is closed, Burger King is closed. Hillside Avenue has more commercial activity than Douglaston.

The hospital is a better reason.

Checkmatethechamp's argument was that the route should serve Little Neck Parkway instead of Winchester on the way to the Hospital. I was giving a reason why they chose the routing. Serves the shopping center (and is more direct)

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6 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Checkmatethechamp's argument was that the route should serve Little Neck Parkway instead of Winchester on the way to the Hospital. I was giving a reason why they chose the routing. Serves the shopping center (and is more direct)

And I'm saying the reason is bad/overexaggerated. Who wants to go to a dead shopping center with no stores in it? It's getting a Lowe's eventually, but who is trying to take the bus to go to a Lowes with a massive parking lot?

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17 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

And I'm saying the reason is bad/overexaggerated. Who wants to go to a dead shopping center with no stores in it? It's getting a Lowe's eventually, but who is trying to take the bus to go to a Lowes with a massive parking lot?

They are using data in their decisions such as accessibility to jobs, density,households without cars, etc, which is available in Remix

Edited by N6 Limited

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4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I'm not sure I understand this argument. Hillside Ave will have 3 routes, the route with 24 minute off-peak headway is the QT34 which branches off of the corridor.

Check the proposed span/frequency for the QT36. 9 minute headways rush hour, 24 minutes off-peak. Weekends is 20 minutes rush hour, 30 off-peak (whatever rush hour is considered on a weekend). It looks like the QT34/36 will run similar headways off-peak and thus be coordinated, but that coordination should extend to LNP, not just Winchester.

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

They are using data in their decisions such as accessibility to jobs, density,households without cars, etc, which is available in Remix

In most cases, maybe...but I don't see how they could've gotten stats that justify this particular routing decision. (Also remember that the Douglaston Shopping Center would maintain QT87 service regardless)

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Some food for thought: 

1) What is wrong with having a line just stay on Horace Harding all the way to North Shore Hospital? Rather than have one go from QCM to QCC and another from Jamaica to LNP why not one line all the way from QCM to North Shore Hospital along HH? 

2) I do like the idea of a line straight down Springfield/Bell Blvds (OT71). I would send it to Jamaica via Jamaica Ave though. This would give it better ridership generators as it now serves as the direct linkage from Jamaica -> QCC -> Bayside. This also means the Q27 can terminate @ QCC

 3) The QT64 and OT65 are total duds. No one is going to ride those past ~ HH heading northbound. Keep the Q65 the way it is and have the QT64 feed into Flushing via 46th Ave. 

4) I like the QT73 except it needs to stop at QCC. No need to go further. 

5) I can see why everyone in my area is beyond angry (Jackson Heights). People want to get to 74st-Roosevelt. Period. Ripping out the Q33 and Q49 will leave alot of people in the lurch as far as getting to Manhattan is concerned. Not everyone wants the (7). Plus the Q53 is decimated. No No No. 

 

 

 

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On 12/31/2019 at 4:08 AM, N6 Limited said:

QT73 - Francis Lewis route to (7) , interesting.

I kind of disagree I was staying off of Francis Lewis near Hillside the way the 76 is I liked it rather then adding an extra 10 minutes to ride up to flushing 

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38 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

Some food for thought: 

1) What is wrong with having a line just stay on Horace Harding all the way to North Shore Hospital? Rather than have one go from QCM to QCC and another from Jamaica to LNP why not one line all the way from QCM to North Shore Hospital along HH? 

2) I do like the idea of a line straight down Springfield/Bell Blvds (OT71). I would send it to Jamaica via Jamaica Ave though. This would give it better ridership generators as it now serves as the direct linkage from Jamaica -> QCC -> Bayside. This also means the Q27 can terminate @ QCC

 3) The QT64 and OT65 are total duds. No one is going to ride those past ~ HH heading northbound. Keep the Q65 the way it is and have the QT64 feed into Flushing via 46th Ave. 

 

 

 

1) People from west of 188th Street are just not going to Little Neck, let alone North Shore Hospital. I don't think the Q88 should have been staightened like that. If anything, I would support having QT12 service rerouted onto 73rd Avenue between 188th Street & Springfield Boulevard in order for residents along 73rd Avenue and in Oakland Gardens to still retain access to Fresh Meadows Shopping Center, the schools near HHE, and QCM. The QT33 or QT87 could remain running on HHE between Springfield Boulevard and 188th Street. Service to destinations near HHE would be much more useful for 73rd Ave residents in Fresh Meadows then going straight down 73rd Avenue, without a doubt. 

2) I agree with you on the QT65, but I actually like the  QT64 route, and I think such a route can work out. I don't thin 24/7 is warranted though. My only gripe is that some of the areas it serves no longer have access to Flushing. With the QT86 ending at such an arbitrary terminal, they should at the very least extend it north into College Point to replace some of the Q25 sections (which no longer have a bus), and send it over to the existing Q65 terminal. (and truncate the QT64 at College Point Boulevard). 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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I hope I am not too far off my element here but I feel we're in a "chicken or egg" kind of moment with the whole redesign. The current system has its inefficiencies and difficult trips - who is to say new opportunities/ridership will not arise when the changes take place?

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5 minutes ago, Cain said:

I hope I am not too far off my element here but I feel we're in a "chicken or egg" kind of moment with the whole redesign. The current system has its inefficiencies and difficult trips - who is to say new opportunities/ridership will not arise when the changes take place?

Some new opportunities and new ridership will arise but the question to ask is will more be helped or hurt by the changes. I believe white a few will benefit, many more will be hurt.

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