RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #101 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) I didn't get what point you were making with this either, to be quite honest.... Nope.... It was never factually stated what this LIC SBS route is supposed to be.... Nuyorican had asked "What happened with the Flushing - Columbus Circle SBS proposal via Northern BLVD?" Never mind the transients & those that have gentrified here, you're giving NY-ers that's lived here in the city for decades too much credit with that short a timeframe.... They may know of some nearby route, but chances are that they will not know where that route goes from end to end... The riding public isn't as transit savvy as we on these forums are..... God forbid the route someone normally uses goes on some kind of a diversion... Gotcha I could've swore I saw the Q66 some where. Umm I understand you're point and you're right to a degree. I'm speaking from a position of anybody with the motivation or and incentive to learn could find this information and absorb it. From a personal standpoint I went from knowing almost zero about NY's Subway rolling stock and system infrastructure to memorizing to not only every car stock and year built but line and station opening dates in about two months via books and the internet mostly nycsubway.org and this was 15 years ago there's tons more information now plus location-based maps apps with route info. Information has been very democratized easily assessable.So why couldn't someone learn this in a month or so if they had the desire to? I understand where your coming from as well. What separates these two types of people's time and desire or motivation. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted May 7, 2017 Share #102 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Gotcha I could've swore I saw the Q66 some where. Umm I understand you're point and you're right to a degree. I'm speaking from a position of anybody with the motivation or and incentive to learn could find this information and absorb it. From a personal standpoint I went from knowing almost zero about NY's Subway rolling stock and system infrastructure to memorizing to not only every car stock and year built but line and station opening dates in about two months via books and the internet mostly nycsubway.org and this was 15 years ago there's tons more information now plus location-based maps apps with route info. Information has been very democratized easily assessable.So why couldn't someone learn this in a month or so if they had the desire to? I understand where your coming from as well. What separates these two types of people's time and desire or motivation. Key point in bold. Transit is a service product like everything else. If you told a bunch of people they could have really cheap internet and all they'd need to do is assemble their wi-fi router, they'd just continue paying the Scrooges over at TWC/Fios/Cablevision/whatever, because that's a lot of work and a lot of time that a lot of people don't have. It takes a month to learn all this crap. A normal person has to find a month away from their jobs, their sleep, their friends, their kids, their free time, to learn all this junk that doesn't boost your earnings potential or really have any solid return. It's far too inconvenient. The bus maps that have way too much information on them and are in super tiny font, are inconvenient. The bus schedules that are really dense, are several pages long, and designed without thought for usability, are inconvenient. Going to public meetings that are at X location at Y time on weekday nights, is inconvenient. People are paying to get from A to B. They're not paying to be told how to think about getting from A to B. For us this is a hobby that we're interested in, but I'm sure that no one is interested in all possible hobbies and wants to have to dig into it for no particular benefit at all. Edited May 7, 2017 by bobtehpanda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 7, 2017 Share #103 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Gotcha I could've swore I saw the Q66 some where. Umm I understand you're point and you're right to a degree. I'm speaking from a position of anybody with the motivation or and incentive to learn could find this information and absorb it. From a personal standpoint I went from knowing almost zero about NY's Subway rolling stock and system infrastructure to memorizing to not only every car stock and year built but line and station opening dates in about two months via books and the internet mostly nycsubway.org and this was 15 years ago there's tons more information now plus location-based maps apps with route info. Information has been very democratized easily assessable.So why couldn't someone learn this in a month or so if they had the desire to? I understand where your coming from as well. What separates these two types of people's time and desire or motivation. Seperate from BobPanda's point about the key term in all that being *if they had the desire to*... My question to you is, learn what exactly in a month? I ask that b/c it took a lot more than a month for me to fully grasp where every single bus route goes from end to end, to the point where I don't have to look at a map of any kind.... I could turn off this laptop right now & chuck all of my old tangible/paper maps in the trash & I could write down the termini of every single route in one shot w/o much hesitation.... Your average NY-er will not be able to do that, or care enough to want to do it (and I'm putting that as tactful as I can)... Edited May 7, 2017 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #104 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Key point in bold. Transit is a service product like everything else. If you told a bunch of people they could have really cheap internet and all they'd need to do is assemble their wi-fi router, they'd just continue paying the Scrooges over at TWC/Fios/Cablevision/whatever, because that's a lot of work and a lot of time that a lot of people don't have. It takes a month to learn all this crap. A normal person has to find a month away from their jobs, their sleep, their friends, their kids, their free time, to learn all this junk that doesn't boost your earnings potential or really have any solid return. It's far too inconvenient. The bus maps that have way too much information on them and are in super tiny font, are inconvenient. The bus schedules that are really dense, are several pages long, and designed without thought for usability, are inconvenient. Going to public meetings that are at X location at Y time on weekday nights, is inconvenient. People are paying to get from A to B. They're not paying to be told how to think about getting from A to B. For us this is a hobby that we're interested in, but I'm sure that no one is interested in all possible hobbies and wants to have to dig into it for no particular benefit at all. Not saying you're wrong. Notice I used the words incentive and desire nothing normal about it and what I'm speaking to. This applies to everything if you want it this there. The Information out there find it. The old formats of information.. Yeah well I got this is 30 seconds. Isn't this what normal people see? You have a device that knows where are you every second of every hour or every day. So yeah if your going from A to B it's never been an easier time to make a detour to C or D.. for normals. Your right Map's are cluttered and packed to the gills with information but you know what you have the skills to make to change that. Make it is easier. Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 7, 2017 Share #105 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Not saying you're wrong. Notice I used the words incentive and desire nothing normal about it and what I'm speaking to. This applies to everything if you want it this there. The Information out there find it. The old formats of information.. Yeah well I got this is 30 seconds. ** screenshots ** Isn't this what normal people see? You have a device that knows where are you every second of every hour or every day. So yeah if your going from A to B it's never been an easier time to make a detour to C or D.. for normals. Your right Map's are cluttered and packed to the gills with information but you know what you have the skills to make to change that. Make it is easier. Oh, I don't think anyone is saying the technology isn't there.... Take away that technology though & ask some other person that knew nothing about the B48 prior, where the B48 goes... ...better yet, put him or her on street level somewhere along the B48 route... and watch them panic. (even with the schedules on the bus stop poles & what not) Edited May 7, 2017 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 7, 2017 Share #106 Posted May 7, 2017 Not saying you're wrong. Notice I used the words incentive and desire nothing normal about it and what I'm speaking to. This applies to everything if you want it this there. The Information out there find it. The old formats of information.. Yeah well I got this is 30 seconds. Isn't this what normal people see? You have a device that knows where are you every second of every hour or every day. So yeah if your going from A to B it's never been an easier time to make a detour to C or D.. for normals. Your right Map's are cluttered and packed to the gills with information but you know what you have the skills to make to change that. Make it is easier. People are incredibly lazy. I still have random strangers asking me where such and such place is in Riverdale when I'm walking to the express bus or Hudson Raillink in the morning. One guy even had a phone right in his hands when he was asking me, so my response to him was, you're asking me and you have a cell right in your hand? He goes, oh yeah and thought about how stupid he looked. When BusTime first came out I saw people using it on Staten Island. I see people using it here and there in Riverdale and elsewhere in Manhattan, but that's very hit or miss. Bus service will likely continue to take a nose dive especially with transplants as they have a love affair with the overrated subway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 7, 2017 Share #107 Posted May 7, 2017 People are incredibly lazy. I still have random strangers asking me where such and such place is in Riverdale when I'm walking to the express bus or Hudson Raillink in the morning. One guy even had a phone right in his hands when he was asking me, so my response to him was, you're asking me and you have a cell right in your hand? He goes, oh yeah and thought about how stupid he looked. When BusTime first came out I saw people using it on Staten Island. I see people using it here and there in Riverdale and elsewhere in Manhattan, but that's very hit or miss. Bus service will likely continue to take a nose dive especially with transplants as they have a love affair with the overrated subway. I rest my case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #108 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) Seperate from BobPanda's point about the key term in all that being *if they had the desire to*... My question to you is, learn what exactly in a month? I ask that b/c it took a lot more than a month for me to fully grasp where every single bus route goes from end to end, to the point where I don't have to look at a map of any kind.... I could turn off this laptop right now & chuck all of my old tangible/paper maps in the trash & I could write down the termini of every single route in one shot w/o much hesitation.... Your average NY-er will not be able to do that, or care enough to want to do it (and I'm putting that as tactful as I can)... No disrespect I guess my question is what kind of circles do you guys run in? I'm not speaking hypothetically i'm telling you went through every car type subway line and build date in a month month and a half top. I guess the variable is I had an incentive to get it done I was getting paid as well. A Month is the month just as 24 hours is 24 hours. It's a measure of the time and its relative. I don't know if I'm speaking to the normal person. But I know if any person had and incentive to get something done there going to get it done I don't know if it's anything else to it no excuses. I have 20 year olds learning programming languages 30 to 60 days. It's competitive on the side. That's the world I come from eat what you kill or don't eat at all. Maybe your circles are different I can't speak from your perspective. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I can say with 100% certainty if you give me the information give me a month I'll make it happen. At least have some foundation to lean on. Faceplam okay let me simplify this. I can learn a map in a month in and out. Me as in RunRail can learn Boston's map a City I don't know. Never rode a bus in Boston but!!! Hey I can learn it. (Waves) Me!! And I bet 3 or 4 of the guys I work with could as well and they know nothing of Transit. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #109 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) All of this is really a state of mind. You guys are too used to being the smartest men in the room and dealing with people you feel are average or beneath you IMO.That same lazy person I can guarantee you is knowledgeable or passionate about something The incentive just has to be there. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 7, 2017 Share #110 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) All of this is really a state of mind. You guys are too used to being the smartest men in the room and dealing with people you feel are average or beneath you IMO.That same lazy person I can guarantee you is knowledgeable or passionate about something The incentive just has to be there. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app No disrespect I guess my question is what kind of circles do you guys run in? I'm not speaking hypothetically i'm telling you went through every car type subway line and build date in a month month and a half top. I guess the variable is I had an incentive to get it done I was getting paid as well. A Month is the month just as 24 hours is 24 hours. It's a measure of the time and its relative. I don't know if I'm speaking to the normal person. But I know if any person had and incentive to get something done there going to get it done I don't know if it's anything else to it no excuses. I have 20 year olds learning programming languages 30 to 60 days. It's competitive on the side. That's the world I come from eat what you kill or don't eat at all. Maybe your circles are different I can't speak from your perspective. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I can say with 100% certainty if you give me the information give me a month I'll make it happen. At least have some foundation to lean on. Faceplam okay let me simplify this. I can learn a map in a month in and out. Me as in RunRail can learn Boston's map a City I don't know. Never rode a bus in Boston but!!! Hey I can learn it. (Waves) Me!! And I bet 3 or 4 of the guys I work with could as well and they know nothing of Transit. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app It's not about passion. I mean not that long ago, there were quite a few routes that I had never used before that I've become familiar with now ONLY because I need them for business purposes, but otherwise I could care less, so people have to have a reason to be bothered. Most of us LIKE routines (I personally get sick of them easily which is why I like to alternate between say the express bus and Metro-North), but other folks are perfectly fine with them... Get the same bus or train EVERY morning at the SAME stop and get off at the SAME STOP at the SAME time every morning, and do the SAME thing going home. With folks like that, it's rather difficult to get them to want to learn otherwise. I'll use my boss as an example. She lives on the Upper East Side. She only knows about a handful of buses, only the ones of which just so happen to run near her (she lives on Madison in the 70s). Ask her how to use a bus Downtown and she couldn't answer you because outside of using one or two buses to and from the office, she drives and can't be bothered with the subway. She's pretty much a lot of New Yorkers. Edited May 7, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 7, 2017 Share #111 Posted May 7, 2017 No disrespect I guess my question is what kind of circles do you guys run in? I'm not speaking hypothetically i'm telling you went through every car type subway line and build date in a month month and a half top. I guess the variable is I had an incentive to get it done I was getting paid as well. A Month is the month just as 24 hours is 24 hours. It's a measure of the time and its relative. I don't know if I'm speaking to the normal person. But I know if any person had and incentive to get something done there going to get it done I don't know if it's anything else to it no excuses. I have 20 year olds learning programming languages 30 to 60 days. It's competitive on the side. That's the world I come from eat what you kill or don't eat at all. Maybe your circles are different I can't speak from your perspective. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I can say with 100% certainty if you give me the information give me a month I'll make it happen. At least have some foundation to lean on. Faceplam okay let me simplify this. I can learn a map in a month in and out. Me as in RunRail can learn Boston's map a City I don't know. Never rode a bus in Boston but!!! Hey I can learn it. (Waves) Me!! And I bet 3 or 4 of the guys I work with could as well and they know nothing of Transit. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Look, nobody's running in any circles.... You're taking this personal & for what reason I do not know... Let me spell it out for you... I'm not talking about YOU... JFC..... I'm talking about the general public.... All of this is really a state of mind. You guys are too used to being the smartest men in the room and dealing with people you feel are average or beneath you IMO.That same lazy person I can guarantee you is knowledgeable or passionate about something The incentive just has to be there. Coming from someone that blatantly stated "There's nothing to complex that I can't figure out", you have no room to talk.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #112 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) It's not about passion. I mean not that long agoh there were quite a few routes that I had never used before that I've become familiar with now ONLY because I need them for business purposes, but otherwise I could care less, so people have to have a reason to be bothered. Most of us LIKE routines (I personally get sick of them easily which is why I like to alternate between say the express bus and Metro-North), but other folks are perfectly fine with them... Get the same bus or train EVERY morning at the SAME stop and get off at the SAME STOP at the SAME time every morning, and do the SAME thing going home. With folks like that, it's rather difficult to get them to want to learn otherwise. I'll use my boss as an example. She lives on the Upper East Side. She only knows about a handful of buses, only the ones of which just so happen to run near her (she lives on Madison in the 70s). Ask her how to use a bus Downtown and she couldn't answer you because outside of using one or two buses to and from the office, she drives and can't be bothered with the subway. She's pretty much a lot of New Yorkers. Never said anything about passion it's too tied into emotion. What I said was incentive much like passion it too can motivate but it tends to get right to the point without the touchy-feely. An incentive for someone like your boss maybe time and money I can bet you $1 million if she was getting to the office late more than a handful of times and her boss told her to be here on time or look for another job. She'd learn those routes. Nods yeah she would know all the routes because well she'd be unemployed incentive my friend! Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 7, 2017 Share #113 Posted May 7, 2017 Never said anything about passion it's too tied into emotion. What I said was incentive much like passion it too can motivate but it tends to get right to the point without the touchy-feely. An incentive for someone like boss maybe time and money I can bet you $1 million if she was getting to the office late more than a handful of times and her boss told her to be here on time or look for another job. She'd learn those routes. Nods yeah she would know all the routes because should be unemployed incentive my friend! Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app lol... She's the owner, so she could care less when she comes in, so probably not the best example, but yes I get your point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #114 Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) lol... She's the owner, so she could care less when she comes in, so probably not the best example, but yes I get your point. Well she and I would relate well. But even as an owner nothings above your business. Incentive is still there. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 7, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 7, 2017 Share #115 Posted May 7, 2017 Well she and I would relate well. But even as an owner nothings above your business. Incentive is still there. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app I suppose depending on one's situation, but in any event, bringing this back to these new SBS lines, I think the craze with them is over. While they are better overall than buses making local stops, they still have their limitations and times when service is downright atrocious when it shouldn't be. There has been a few times when the M86 was just a mess during the past winter well past 21:00, and I simply refused to wait and used other alternatives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 7, 2017 Share #116 Posted May 7, 2017 I suppose depending on one's situation, but in any event, bringing this back to these new SBS lines, I think the craze with them is over. While they are better overall than buses making local stops, they still have their limitations and times when service is downright atrocious when it shouldn't be. There has been a few times when the M86 was just a mess during the past winter well past 21:00, and I simply refused to wait and used other alternatives. There a few routes I feel it works well on Bx12,Q44 and the S79 but I here you the crosstown routes it seems like the main thing your getting is off board payments what are the other benefits? Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Hey @B35 just saw my previous post the second part of it was quoted from another post. The respect is there apologies if I came off strong. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 8, 2017 Share #117 Posted May 8, 2017 Hey @B35 just saw my previous post the second part of it was quoted from another post. The respect is there apologies if I came off strong. Not strong, I just didn't know where you were coming from with both of those replies in question.... But cool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 8, 2017 Share #118 Posted May 8, 2017 Look, nobody's running in any circles.... You're taking this personal & for what reason I do not know... Let me spell it out for you... I'm not talking about YOU... JFC..... I'm talking about the general public.... Coming from someone that blatantly stated "There's nothing to complex that I can't figure out", you have no room to talk.... My app just refreshed just seeing this Nothing personal apologies if it seemed strong. The context of that statement perfectly aligned with the conversation with VG8 and my abilities there. By no mean do I feel I know everything unless I wouldn't be here asking questions. My perspective may be a little foreign but just know the respect is there as well as the understand that there are other perspectives beyond on my own. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Not strong, I just didn't know where you were coming from with both of those replies in question.... But cool Super slow refresh going on geez lol ! Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted May 8, 2017 Share #119 Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) Not saying you're wrong. Notice I used the words incentive and desire nothing normal about it and what I'm speaking to. This applies to everything if you want it this there. The Information out there find it. The old formats of information.. Yeah well I got this is 30 seconds. Isn't this what normal people see? You have a device that knows where are you every second of every hour or every day. So yeah if your going from A to B it's never been an easier time to make a detour to C or D.. for normals. Your right Map's are cluttered and packed to the gills with information but you know what you have the skills to make to change that. Make it is easier. New Yorkers are a diverse bunch. So off the assumptions that we running with here to have the Transit App in front of you, we got the following roadblocks. Must have heard about the Transit App, and must have downloaded it. Not all apps offer this functionality. Google Transit is concerned about how to get you from A to B quickly, not how many different ways there are to get you from A to B. Must have a smartphone. There are still, surprisingly enough, people with dumb phones this day. They obviously don't get the transit app. Same for those who had their phone dead, don't have a phone that can run this particular app, etc. Must be able to read English. This doesn't just affect the sizable non-American population in the City; the passing rate for English standardized testing at City schools is depressingly low. You talk about people learning programming languages in a month or two. I know people do that because I also work in tech. But doing so is a skill that actually makes you earn more. Knowing that you can walk a couple blocks to a bus heading in the same direction as the one you always take is not going to make you earn more money. The fact of the matter is, MTA is really bad at catering to new, unfamiliar customers. Slapping some of the announcements through Google Translate does not really cut it as far as actual outreach goes. The MTA should be making it easier to find information about its operations, not the other way around - that single mother workin multiple min-wage jobs to feed her kids has no time to try and decipher the technical language that all MTA stuff is cloaked in. Edited May 8, 2017 by bobtehpanda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted May 8, 2017 Share #120 Posted May 8, 2017 I suppose depending on one's situation, but in any event, bringing this back to these new SBS lines, I think the craze with them is over. While they are better overall than buses making local stops, they still have their limitations and times when service is downright atrocious when it shouldn't be. There has been a few times when the M86 was just a mess during the past winter well past 21:00, and I simply refused to wait and used other alternatives. As someone who doesn't mind SBS (which is different from saying I fully support it), really, SBS is a branding. The package of things that come with SBS, which isn't even fully implemented half the time, is fully possible using other things: Reduced stop spacing - LTD buses Traffic signal priority - on the Victory Blvd buses in SI Bus lanes - already existed before SBS The only thing that doesn't exist in a non-SBS context is off-board fare payment, which honestly may be easy to roll across the board depending on what next-gen fare payment looks like. SBS is just a nifty lil thing for the politicians to rally around and for the MTA to scrape federal funding dollars for (and the latter point is completely rational, since we get shafted by the federal gov't on a regular basis as it is) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 8, 2017 Share #121 Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) New Yorkers are a diverse bunch. So off the assumptions that we running with here to have the Transit App in front of you, we got the following roadblocks. Must have heard about the Transit App, and must have downloaded it. Not all apps offer this functionality. Google Transit is concerned about how to get you from A to B quickly, not how many different ways there are to get you from A to B. Must have a smartphone. There are still, surprisingly enough, people with dumb phones this day. They obviously don't get the transit app. Same for those who had their phone dead, don't have a phone that can run this particular app, etc. Must be able to read English. This doesn't just affect the sizable non-American population in the City; the passing rate for English standardized testing at City schools is depressingly low. You talk about people learning programming languages in a month or two. I know people do that because I also work in tech. But doing so is a skill that actually makes you earn more. Knowing that you can walk a couple blocks to a bus heading in the same direction as the one you always take is not going to make you earn more money. The fact of the matter is, MTA is really bad at catering to new, unfamiliar customers. Slapping some of the announcements through Google Translate does not really cut it as far as actual outreach goes. The MTA should be making it easier to find information about its operations, not the other way around - that single mother workin multiple min-wage jobs to feed her kids has no time to try and decipher the technical language that all MTA stuff is cloaked in. We're venturing into some major gray areas perspective and POVs that control truth from person to person. similar points are being made here. I'm speaking from a purely motivated and incentivized view. All I'm saying is if you wanted the information it's never been easier to find it. A person with incentive there's quite abit that could be done in a month. People's time management and other responsibilities is something nor you or I can measure and I don't we should let the threshold be incentive and motivation. Here's what I do know. For all the faults normal people are finding multiple points of entry for transit information. This wasn't the case even 10 years ago. The probability of potential user stumbling upon this information is growing exponentially We're hitting a point where app stores like Apple's suggest applications based off of location popularity and curation. Knowing NY is a transit reliant City isn't hard look at the top downloads in your area I can almost guarantee you'll find a transportation app on that list. For all of the MTA faults they do have a open API we don't think they're doing a great job we can take a shot at it ourselves. We both work in technology let's do something about it then. The tools are there. There really isn't an excuse. Think about it in the grander scheme we all found this forum for the most part we're not making money from any of this Conversation some of us not even knowledge. But yet we find time. I don't know what motivates a person but with a will there is a way. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 8, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted May 8, 2017 Share #122 Posted May 8, 2017 The tools are there. There really isn't an excuse. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. As to creating yet another app, I'll just leave this here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 8, 2017 Share #123 Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. As to creating yet another app, I'll just leave this here. Again I'm talking to the people that are drinking . I worked for Apple from 2003-09 as a Q/A engineer lived heavily by the 80/20 rule understanding your archetype that makes the world of difference. Now indeed this could be the case this is a major issue in Silicon Valley but you know what power and influence goes to the doers not the philosophers. Either you're moving the field or being moved. So Philosophy and theory it's nice but it amounts to nothing without application. That applies for so many things in life. That's from experience. As I said the APIs there you design and cartographic at that. You're inquiring all this knowledge for what exactly? Fine you sit and watch everyone else make decisions for you! Just no complaints please! Food for thought! Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Edited May 8, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43 Floral Park Posted May 8, 2017 Share #124 Posted May 8, 2017 What if the Bx6 local ran on the WB service road and stopped with the Bx13 at River? I know it would eat into some of the time savings, but it would serve that stop. When they run late, sometimes they short-turn at Lenox. It'll add 5-10 mins alone and they'd have to put the short turn Bx13 stop back on Jerome but that's better than the current plan. Short turning at Lenox seems late in the game, It's still going to take some time to get that run back to Fordham. I wonder if they could combine the Bx6 local short turns (HP-Southern) with a Bx19 short turn to Fordham when SBS starts... I don't take buses for joy rides, only for work purposes, so if I have a reason to ride the Bx19 in the Bronx I will. I've actually used the Bx15 briefly in Manhattan as well, and what you say about the Bx19 isn't shocking. What is shocking is that it's the only bus along that corridor. Given how hilly that area is, that doesn't make much sense. Perhaps a SBS and a local variation could work? He could easily fall into the same category as you (he seemingly expressed such sentiments) + your lack of experience with the Bx19 means you weren't knowledgeable on the matter until discussion on the thread so again, its the pot calling the kettle black as I said. What's shocking to me is that you think there's another route available to run on 145 St and that even if such a route existed, it would be able to serve enough of the Bx19 base to alleviate it without replicating it's route to the point of redundancy. Look at the maps... The only routes nearby are the M1/7/102 (no); I'm not even going to break down why the Bx1 can't; the Bx2 has been butchered enough and going west instead of east just moves the issue from one side of the bridge to the other; the Bx13 as is, is a surprisingly messy route considering its brevity, it definitely can't support interborough travel on 145 and 181; the M11(good luck getting EG to let a 4th route terminate over on Lenox) and that leaves making the Bx46 a branch of the Bx19... which voids my second point because you'd have to cut it into the 19 at Southern and lose whatever ridership it was getting at Prospect or run it via the Bx4/17 into the Bx19 (too much overlap). New Yorkers are a diverse bunch. So off the assumptions that we running with here to have the Transit App in front of you, we got the following roadblocks. Must have heard about the Transit App, and must have downloaded it. Not all apps offer this functionality. Google Transit is concerned about how to get you from A to B quickly, not how many different ways there are to get you from A to B. Must have a smartphone. There are still, surprisingly enough, people with dumb phones this day. They obviously don't get the transit app. Same for those who had their phone dead, don't have a phone that can run this particular app, etc. Must be able to read English. This doesn't just affect the sizable non-American population in the City; the passing rate for English standardized testing at City schools is depressingly low. You talk about people learning programming languages in a month or two. I know people do that because I also work in tech. But doing so is a skill that actually makes you earn more. Knowing that you can walk a couple blocks to a bus heading in the same direction as the one you always take is not going to make you earn more money. The fact of the matter is, MTA is really bad at catering to new, unfamiliar customers. Slapping some of the announcements through Google Translate does not really cut it as far as actual outreach goes. The MTA should be making it easier to find information about its operations, not the other way around - that single mother workin multiple min-wage jobs to feed her kids has no time to try and decipher the technical language that all MTA stuff is cloaked in. Not to mention the fact that the MTA Bus/Subway Apps haven't been updated in years/crashes at random so buses straight up go missing, Google Transit mobile will only give you 4 route options (they aren't always guaranteed to the be the best IMO) and the main third party app (screenshotted earlier) has an issue accounting for short turn runs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted May 8, 2017 Share #125 Posted May 8, 2017 Not to mention the fact that the MTA Bus/Subway Apps haven't been updated in years/crashes at random so buses straight up go missing, Google Transit mobile will only give you 4 route options (they aren't always guaranteed to the be the best IMO) and the main third party app (screenshotted earlier) has an issue accounting for short turn runs. Question on the Short turns? Is that data pushed via the MTA's API? Is it on the part of the developers? Or the MTA? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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