Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He could easily fall into the same category as you (he seemingly expressed such sentiments) + your lack of experience with the Bx19 means you weren't knowledgeable on the matter until discussion on the thread so again, its the pot calling the kettle black as I said. What's shocking to me is that you think there's another route available to run on 145 St and that even if such a route existed, it would be able to serve enough of the Bx19 base to alleviate it without replicating it's route to the point of redundancy.

 

Look at the maps... The only routes nearby are the M1/7/102 (no); I'm not even going to break down why the Bx1 can't; the Bx2 has been butchered enough and going west instead of east just moves the issue from one side of the bridge to the other; the Bx13 as is, is a surprisingly messy route considering its brevity, it definitely can't support interborough travel on 145 and 181; the M11(good luck getting EG to let a 4th route terminate over on Lenox) and that leaves making the Bx46 a branch of the Bx19... which voids my second point because you'd have to cut it into the 19 at Southern and lose whatever ridership it was getting at Prospect or run it via the Bx4/17 into the Bx19 (too much overlap).

Your assumptions are just wrong.  I've been in that area enough (for some years actually for work purposes) to know a thing or two, and I've used all three of the nearby routes you're talking about so please with your holier than thou crappola.  I already know the problems of all three routes (they ALL are unreliable and run like crap).  The one bus that could perhaps be extended across 145th is maybe the M1 if had beefed up frequencies, but as it stands, it runs horribly in general, and especially at night. Some of the drivers take their sweet time, eating along the way as they drive. I had one guy who was totally consumed with eating sunflower seeds from 147th all the way to 125th where I got off for Metro-North. The other Bx's I wouldn't bother with either, since they all have their own problems.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Your assumptions are just wrong.  I've been in that area enough (for some years actually for work purposes) to know a thing or two, and I've used all three of the nearby routes you're talking about so please with your holier than thou crappola.  I already know the problems of all three routes (they ALL are unreliable and run like crap).  The one bus that could perhaps be extended across 145th is maybe the M1 if had beefed up frequencies, but as it stands, it runs horribly in general, and especially at night. Some of the drivers take their sweet time, eating along the way as they drive. I had one guy who was totally consumed with eating sunflower seeds from 147th all the way to 125th where I got off for Metro-North. The other Bx's I wouldn't bother with either, since they all have their own problems.

 

A) all bus trips are joyrides and/or for some work/recreational use (read going to conduct some activity)

B) he hasn't taken joyrides

C) he has taken bus trips for work/recreational purposes (mainly driving but that's irrelevant)

Conclusion, he only uses buses for work/recreation.

I wasn't making an assumption, I was applying the basic rules of logic. 

 

Furthermore, I'm not on a holier than thou tip, I'm on a "Having used the Bx19 along it's entire route over the past couple years, I'm more familiar with the subject matter than you" tip. Someone more well-versed on the Bx19 (ex. someone who uses it daily) could easily come in this thread and correct any of my remarks. I'd respect their posts, ask questions and then find peace in the fact that I learned something new. I'm not telling you to be me... What I am telling you is that I'm not okay with your hypocrisy. You claimed to be a false authority on the Bx19, berated someone else for their ignorance on the matter, then openly stated your unwillingness to take the time to gain firsthand experience by riding the entire Bx19. Lastly, you're seemingly incapable of admitting that's not how an adult should conduct themselves on a public forum.

 

Knowing the M1 can be subpar as is, you want to give the operators another legitimate reason (I was stuck on 145) to be late? Where are you getting extra buses for these frequencies when EG and CB10 won't even let MCH house the max buses it was rebuilt for?

 

Not enough room to turn 3 routes at Riverbank; turning at B'way full time means buses laying over and blocking the Bx19 stops in both directions... I can already see a wheelchair passenger needing the Bx19 and the op being out in the lane. Turning at any of the streets E of B'way defeats the purpose of an extension. Even if you do the poor man's Q36 split to B'way... it'd be going off the assumption the main problem is getting people across 145 St (which assumes most aren't trying to cross the bridge and want to stay in manhattan). IMO, this won't make the full Bx19 any more tolerable because putting the Bx2 on E149 made it clear that the issue isn't a lack of parallel bus service (the Bx2 could honestly go back to 165 if they SBS'd the 19). The issue is the Bx19 is the only efficient way to get from E 149 to W145 St without backtracking via train a ridiculous amount. If it's still making every stop, bunching and late nothing will change for it's base ridership.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Q43 Floral Park

[Q43 Floral Park]

Question on the Short turns? Is that data pushed via the MTA's API? Is it on the part of the developers? Or the MTA?

 

Sorry for the double post. The data has to come from MTA. In regards to that specific app, the issue I noticed is that you don't always have an option of viewing all of a route's terminals (Ex. You can see the E/B LIJ Q46 runs but not the GO or Springfield runs) or a short turn gets inaccurately reported as a full run. I assume the latter is an issue in regards to the developers method of relaying the data but I'm not a heavy tech person. Besides the MTA app missing stops/ having them inaccurate locations, it can't account for mid route adjustments or short turns that aren't built into the schedule (ex. Bx3 runs to Kingsbridge will always be reported as Riverdale runs).

[B35 via Church]

New Yorkers are a diverse bunch. So off the assumptions that we running with here to have the Transit App in front of you, we got the following roadblocks.

 

• Must have heard about the Transit App, and must have downloaded it. Not all apps offer this functionality. Google Transit is concerned about how to get you from A to B quickly, not how many different ways there are to get you from A to B.
• Must have a smartphone. There are still, surprisingly enough, people with dumb phones this day. They obviously don't get the transit app. Same for those who had their phone dead, don't have a phone that can run this particular app, etc.
• Must be able to read English. This doesn't just affect the sizable non-American population in the City; the passing rate for English standardized testing at City schools is depressingly low.

You talk about people learning programming languages in a month or two. I know people do that because I also work in tech. But doing so is a skill that actually makes you earn more. Knowing that you can walk a couple blocks to a bus heading in the same direction as the one you always take is not going to make you earn more money.

 

The fact of the matter is, MTA is really bad at catering to new, unfamiliar customers. Slapping some of the announcements through Google Translate does not really cut it as far as actual outreach goes. The MTA should be making it easier to find information about its operations, not the other way around - that single mother workin multiple min-wage jobs to feed her kids has no time to try and decipher the technical language that all MTA stuff is cloaked in.

Which more or less goes back to my original point... You can't expect the general public to learn where these routes go in a month - when you have as many ppl. that have been living in this city for decades & don't literally know where the displayed destination sign (end terminal) on the bus they take every single day (or with any regularity anyway) actually is, if they aren't anywhere near that point - Never mind other routes in the system they have no literal use for.....

 

It isn't about us being the smartest amongst the dumb (or however RailRunRob put it last night), it's about the everyday public not wanting to be as transit savvy as, well, maybe they probably should..... Not on the uBer dWeEb level of us hobbyists here, but at the very least, not panicking when their "home" subway or bus route is undergoing some diversion or whatever.... NY-ers in general are terrible at coming up w/ backup plans (so to speak) & you could make the argument that the MTA has a lot to do with it.... And again, it aint just the transients/gentrifiers either.

 

As far as the technology goes, well I put it like this.... If I give you the answers to the test & you knew very little of the subject matter you're being tested on, what exactly are you learning?

I'm speaking from a purely motivated and incentivized view. All I'm saying is if you wanted the information it's never been easier to find it. A person with incentive there's quite a bit that could be done in a month.

None of us are saying or implicating that the info isn't available or difficult to find.... That's not the problem...

 

Again I'm talking to the people that are drinking

Lol....you're talking to an insignificant minority then - Especially when you made a comparative talking point of learning programming languages in a short amt. of time.... The general public is not exceptional like that.... Tech would be FAR more competitive then it is now if that were the case....

 

MTA, as incompetent as they are at times, isn't just for the people that are drinking, so to speak.... The motivation should be there to know how to get around (aside from the commute they're the most familiar with) by the masses & the fact of the matter is, is that it isn't.... Which is quite embarrassing.

 

I don't have "yo, TOUR GUIDE HERE" plastered anywhere on me & I don't have any maps tattooed on me either... I've long been sick of random people walking up to me out of nowhere asking for directions, or does this bus/train go _______ (some desired destination).....

Edited May 8, 2017 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

I don't have "yo, TOUR GUIDE HERE" plastered anywhere on me & I don't have any maps tattooed on me either... I've long been sick of random people walking up to me out of nowhere asking for directions, or does this bus/train go _______ (some desired destination).....

 

I feel the same, except the one general exception I have is for people trying to find the right exit to leave the subway from to get as close to your destination as possible. Exit signage at the MTA sucks, big time.

 

I know in other places it's common to label subway exits with some code and businesses will often advertise their location this why (e.g., the store is outside exit B2).

Edited May 9, 2017 by bobtehpanda

[RailRunRob]

Sorry for the double post. The data has to come from MTA. In regards to that specific app, the issue I noticed is that you don't always have an option of viewing all of a route's terminals (Ex. You can see the E/B LIJ Q46 runs but not the GO or Springfield runs) or a short turn gets inaccurately reported as a full run. I assume the latter is an issue in regards to the developers method of relaying the data but I'm not a heavy tech person. Besides the MTA app missing stops/ having them inaccurate locations, it can't account for mid route adjustments or short turns that aren't built into the schedule (ex. Bx3 runs to Kingsbridge will always be reported as Riverdale runs).

No worries. yep, the data set is from the MTA signed up as a developer this afternoon.

 

http://web.mta.info/developers/

http://datamine.mta.info/user

 

If anyone's interested or you may know already.

 

I played with some of the data set's I focused on the B46 closest route to me with multiple short turns that I know of the B44 may have a few as well. I used a few apps on top of checking out the dataset. It covered the 46 pretty well. See below. But what your saying makes perfect sense if isn't in the schedule database it's not going to update on the fly. That brings me to what management is using to make changes mid-route and how that works.

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by RailRunRob

[checkmatechamp13]

1. Big deal.  He grew up in an area with no subway and yet has very little knowledge of the bus system. That's absurd any way you cut it, and he tries to excuse his ignorance by talking about how he was too busy chasing skirts as if he's so cool.  LOL His behavior sounds more like a transplant than a New Yorker. 

 

2. Most crosstown areas of Manhattan have more than one branch/line running on it, and despite your claims about the Bx19 being frequent, overall it doesn't seem that way.  Runs like crap.

 

3.  Yeah and? We're talking about the purposely cutting back on the local bus when they have limited stop or SBS service.  You're talking about something completely unrelated.  

 

1. So on one hand, you're going to talk about how your boss only knows a couple of lines in her neighborhood, and people come up asking for directions with a phone in their hand and all that, but yet you're going to berate him for not riding the Bx19?

 

2. Really? Try telling that to riders on the M79, M86, M50, M23, M8, M21, M22, Bx33, Bx6, and Bx12 (and the aforementioned Bx19).

 

I didn't get what point you were making with this either, to be quite honest....

 

In other words, there might be demand for say, 20 buses per hour on the central part of a certain corridor (so you can run 10 locals per hour and 10 limiteds, or 5 locals per hour and 15 limiteds, etc).

 

The thing is that on a lot of these corridors, the local only runs for part of the route while the limited travels the full distance (for example, on your home route, the locals only run to McDonald Avenue, and the limiteds run all the way out to Sunset Park. For the MTA to skimp on local service would be stupid, since Brownsville-Kensington via local is still shorter than Brownsville-Sunset Park via limited).

 

Also, on routes like the Bx36 or B38 (where the local does run the full distance), you'd be seeing a ton of limiteds and very few locals, but there is approximately the same amount of service on both versions of the route.

 

Of course, thinking about it again, there was that whole fiasco on the B6 route a few years ago (locals to ENY and limiteds to Canarsie), which would be more of what they would do if they were trying to save money by forcing the limiteds down people's throats. 

[Future ENY OP]

Of course, thinking about it again, there was that whole fiasco on the B6 route a few years ago (locals to ENY and limiteds to Canarsie), which would be more of what they would do if they were trying to save money by forcing the limiteds down people's throats. 

 

That whole fiasco with the B6..  At least that lasted a whole 3-6 months until the next pick.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

1. So on one hand, you're going to talk about how your boss only knows a couple of lines in her neighborhood, and people come up asking for directions with a phone in their hand and all that, but yet you're going to berate him for not riding the Bx19?

 

2. Really? Try telling that to riders on the M79, M86, M50, M23, M8, M21, M22, Bx33, Bx6, and Bx12 (and the aforementioned Bx19).

 

 

In other words, there might be demand for say, 20 buses per hour on the central part of a certain corridor (so you can run 10 locals per hour and 10 limiteds, or 5 locals per hour and 15 limiteds, etc).

 

 

The bold is what my point of contention with B35 is based on. I get the sense from him that bus service gets worse on high ridership corridors if there is any shift from the former towards the latter. That's where I disagree with him. I feel that there is no one rule as to how service should be allocated between local and limited stop route variants. If passenger volumes indicate a massive demand for a select (pun intended) few stops on a route then something more towards the latter is what most effectively serves the passengers.

 

The other disagreement stems for him believing that the SBS branding is being used to push routes from the former towards the latter at the detriment of commuters. The problem is that there is no evidence to show that frequencies shifted massively in favor of SBS service on any SBS corridors. The decline of the B44 and B46 locals has mostly to do with reliability which is an issue with nearly every route. Even with the Bx12 and M15 where you did see SBS service increase and local service decrease the ridership patterns before SBS were not showing a large market of people exclusively depending on local service. The liveliness of the Bx12 and M15 locals before SBS had a lot to do with those routes having service allocations in line with the former scenario you describe which lead lots of headway focused commuters to take local service in the event it showed before an LTD did. With those routes seeing service shift more towards the latter there is limited incentive to take a local bus unless you absolutely need to board/exit from a local stop. Lessening the incentive to take a local bus doesn't necessarily make service worse if the number of BPH on the corridor doesn't go down (which it hasn't on any SBS corridor) and the local buses are less crowded meaning those who fully need to take advantage of local service get more room on the bus. 

 

I do have a gripe in instances where the local service has become less reliable (which is what happened with the B44 and B46) and with the fact that Bx12 and M15 locals are too empty at times (there are too many riders who will let locals pass them to wait for SBS when there are wide gaps in service and you're better off getting on the first thing that shows). Outside of that the SBS concerns (there are legitimate concerns) should not for me be grounded in service levels vs locals but rather that reliability improvements have been minimal and the branding effort being a legit slap in the face for riders of non-SBS routes. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A) all bus trips are joyrides and/or for some work/recreational use (read going to conduct some activity)

B) he hasn't taken joyrides

C) he has taken bus trips for work/recreational purposes (mainly driving but that's irrelevant)

Conclusion, he only uses buses for work/recreation.

I wasn't making an assumption, I was applying the basic rules of logic. 

 

Furthermore, I'm not on a holier than thou tip, I'm on a "Having used the Bx19 along it's entire route over the past couple years, I'm more familiar with the subject matter than you" tip. Someone more well-versed on the Bx19 (ex. someone who uses it daily) could easily come in this thread and correct any of my remarks. I'd respect their posts, ask questions and then find peace in the fact that I learned something new. I'm not telling you to be me... What I am telling you is that I'm not okay with your hypocrisy. You claimed to be a false authority on the Bx19, berated someone else for their ignorance on the matter, then openly stated your unwillingness to take the time to gain firsthand experience by riding the entire Bx19. Lastly, you're seemingly incapable of admitting that's not how an adult should conduct themselves on a public forum.

 

Knowing the M1 can be subpar as is, you want to give the operators another legitimate reason (I was stuck on 145) to be late? Where are you getting extra buses for these frequencies when EG and CB10 won't even let MCH house the max buses it was rebuilt for?

 

Not enough room to turn 3 routes at Riverbank; turning at B'way full time means buses laying over and blocking the Bx19 stops in both directions... I can already see a wheelchair passenger needing the Bx19 and the op being out in the lane. Turning at any of the streets E of B'way defeats the purpose of an extension. Even if you do the poor man's Q36 split to B'way... it'd be going off the assumption the main problem is getting people across 145 St (which assumes most aren't trying to cross the bridge and want to stay in manhattan). IMO, this won't make the full Bx19 any more tolerable because putting the Bx2 on E149 made it clear that the issue isn't a lack of parallel bus service (the Bx2 could honestly go back to 165 if they SBS'd the 19). The issue is the Bx19 is the only efficient way to get from E 149 to W145 St without backtracking via train a ridiculous amount. If it's still making every stop, bunching and late nothing will change for it's base ridership.

Ok, so you've used the Bx19 the entire route.. Pat yourself on the back... I'm really more concerned about the route within Manhattan since that's the part of the route that I've used.  Regarding the M1, fine, what's the alternative? I mean they all run like crap and extending any of the Bx buses doesn't work either.  Quite frankly, I don't see why three buses all have to end by that apartment complex. I suppose it's also so that buses can get back to the depot faster (at least in the case of the M1 and M7 anyway), but they still run poorly, and I think part of that is due to the poor headways, especially on the M1.

 

Finally, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what I said.  Telling someone to try out a route that they have questions about means just that, and if you think that's "berating" him then too bad.  The best way to have knowledge about something is to experience it. Plain and simple. I am not apologizing for what I said because there is nothing to apologize about, nor was my comment inappropriate.    Someone that limits themselves to the subway and has been a native New Yorker has no excuse in my opinion to have such limited knowledge of our transit system. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just like you're entitled to yours.  Doesn't make either of our opinions better than the other, so let's agree to disagree and move on.  If he were a transplant I'd give him a pass, but he's not.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. So on one hand, you're going to talk about how your boss only knows a couple of lines in her neighborhood, and people come up asking for directions with a phone in their hand and all that, but yet you're going to berate him for not riding the Bx19?

 

2. Really? Try telling that to riders on the M79, M86, M50, M23, M8, M21, M22, Bx33, Bx6, and Bx12 (and the aforementioned Bx19).

1. My boss isn't from here so she gets a pass.  He is.  Huge difference.  I already explained earlier about transplants. 

 

2.  Why are you including Bronx crosstown buses when we're talking about within Manhattan? None of the routes mentioned dealing with the same type of hills that the Bx19 deal with, and for the most part one can simply hail a cab, or walk instead of taking these lines. I sure as hell do it with lines like the M50 and M23.  You can walk faster than they go. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The bold is what my point of contention with B35 is based on. I get the sense from him that bus service gets worse on high ridership corridors if there is any shift from the former towards the latter. That's where I disagree with him. I feel that there is no one rule as to how service should be allocated between local and limited stop route variants. If passenger volumes indicate a massive demand for a select (pun intended) few stops on a route then something more towards the latter is what most effectively serves the passengers.

 

The other disagreement stems for him believing that the SBS branding is being used to push routes from the former towards the latter at the detriment of commuters. The problem is that there is no evidence to show that frequencies shifted massively in favor of SBS service on any SBS corridors. The decline of the B44 and B46 locals has mostly to do with reliability which is an issue with nearly every route. Even with the Bx12 and M15 where you did see SBS service increase and local service decrease the ridership patterns before SBS were not showing a large market of people exclusively depending on local service. The liveliness of the Bx12 and M15 locals before SBS had a lot to do with those routes having service allocations in line with the former scenario you describe which lead lots of headway focused commuters to take local service in the event it showed before an LTD did. With those routes seeing service shift more towards the latter there is limited incentive to take a local bus unless you absolutely need to board/exit from a local stop. Lessening the incentive to take a local bus doesn't necessarily make service worse if the number of BPH on the corridor doesn't go down (which it hasn't on any SBS corridor) and the local buses are less crowded meaning those who fully need to take advantage of local service get more room on the bus. 

 

I do have a gripe in instances where the local service has become less reliable (which is what happened with the B44 and B46) and with the fact that Bx12 and M15 locals are too empty at times (there are too many riders who will let locals pass them to wait for SBS when there are wide gaps in service and you're better off getting on the first thing that shows). Outside of that the SBS concerns (there are legitimate concerns) should not for me be grounded in service levels vs locals but rather that reliability improvements have been minimal and the branding effort being a legit slap in the face for riders of non-SBS routes. 

The thing is you can't have it both ways.  You can't expect the to run all of these SBS buses AND run tons of local bus service too.  They're just not going to do that because it creates an unequal balance of service which is definitely happening around the city.  The SBS lines get all of the attention and the regular local lines, they barely want to provide service for them.

[Q43 Floral Park]

No worries. yep, the data set is from the MTA signed up as a developer this afternoon.

 

http://web.mta.info/developers/

http://datamine.mta.info/user

 

If anyone's interested or you may know already.

 

I played with some of the data set's I focused on the B46 closest route to me with multiple short turns that I know of the B44 may have a few as well. I used a few apps on top of checking out the dataset. It covered the 46 pretty well. See below. But what your saying makes perfect sense if isn't in the schedule database it's not going to update on the fly. That brings me to what management is using to make changes mid-route and how that works.

 

thanks, I'll check this out. I'm not sure what standard protocol is but in my neck of the woods, dispatch just calls the op mid route. I was under the assumption that the change in designation sign could at least be reported via wi-fi/gps but I suppose it's not the case.

 

 

Ok, so you've used the Bx19 the entire route.. Pat yourself on the back... I'm really more concerned about the route within Manhattan since that's the part of the route that I've used.  Regarding the M1, fine, what's the alternative? I mean they all run like crap and extending any of the Bx buses doesn't work either.  Quite frankly, I don't see why three buses all have to end by that apartment complex. I suppose it's also so that buses can get back to the depot faster (at least in the case of the M1 and M7 anyway), but they still run poorly, and I think part of that is due to the poor headways, especially on the M1.

 

Finally, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what I said.  Telling someone to try out a route that they have questions about means just that, and if you think that's "berating" him then too bad.  The best way to have knowledge about something is to experience it. Plain and simple. I am not apologizing for what I said because there is nothing to apologize about, nor was my comment inappropriate.    Someone that limits themselves to the subway and has been a native New Yorker has no excuse in my opinion to have such limited knowledge of our transit system. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just like you're entitled to yours.  Doesn't make either of our opinions better than the other, so let's agree to disagree and move on.  If he were a transplant I'd give him a pass, but he's not.

 

The alternative is following the title of the thread and making the Bx19 SBS... It's that simple. Local maybe stays in the Bronx (Bx Term Market-NYBG), SBS serve the whole thing. Honestly, don't see the point in the local continuing to serve the whole route post-SBS but it was explained to me in another thread that's needed on the Bx6, so that depends on whether or not the SBS can hold down 145 alone. Quite frankly, The M1/7 terminal isn't broken and its illogical to me to move routes from terminating in front of the depot just because. Adding a deadhead anywhere increases the chance of runs being late and headways being missed for starters... You still haven't explained how adding the M1 to 145 would help the M1 or its riders, where the extra buses would come from (is MHV supposed to pick up runs?), headways, hours, you know anything useful to transportation planning.... IMO its the same as them attempting to add rush hour artic Bx7 service between 231-263, only putting a patch on an issue because you aren't looking at all of the factors at play.

 

 He blatantly asked not to "have hes knees (proverbially) chopped off" and you tried it anyway. You went at him for several posts on hypocritical grounds, telling him to do something you're unwilling to do and knowing you haven't ridden the full Bx19 to have the knowledge you're telling him to discern. None of these are opinions, they're facts. You could say that being hypocritical doesn't warrant an apology and that would be an opinion (the wrong one but still).

 

 

I don't care about your personal convictions on Native NYers and public transportation, I just care about this board being a tolerable place for communication. You're free to think whatever you want but once you put it out in the universe, others are free to respond. I didn't say anything about him getting into with others in the thread because they checked him and he apologized. You came at him first and I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong but its the mature thing to do.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He blatantly asked not to "have hes knees (proverbially) chopped off" and you tried it anyway. You went at him for several posts on hypocritical grounds, telling him to do something you're unwilling to do and knowing you haven't ridden the full Bx19 to have the knowledge you're telling him to discern. None of these are opinions, they're facts. You could say that being hypocritical doesn't warrant an apology and that would be an opinion (the wrong one but still).

 

 

I don't care about your personal convictions on Native NYers and public transportation, I just care about this board being a tolerable place for communication. You're free to think whatever you want but once you put it out in the universe, others are free to respond. I didn't say anything about him getting into with others in the thread because they checked him and he apologized. You came at him first and I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong but its the mature thing to do.

Yeah I said he should go out and use it, and I still think that because there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that or are you saying that there's a problem with trying out a bus line? I didn't say he needed to ride the full route (you keep bringing that up as if someone needs to when anyone with common sense can get a good feel for what plagues a bus line by just riding a portion of it) so there's no hypocrisy.  I told him to consider doing something that I've done myself.  Who actually rides a bus route from to end to end anyway? Don't be ridiculous.  Very few people do, so that's just an absurd thing to keep mentioning, and no just because you've used the line from end to end that doesn't make one an expert, but you can keep believing that.

 

I thought that the SBS part of the Bx19 was already obvious. My opinion is that it won't solve the problem unless frequencies are bumped up further, or there is more restructuring of the route.  As it stands, the line supposedly has good frequencies on paper but runs like crap in reality.  The M1 was just an idea... Nothing more... My point is service as it stands along 145th sucks, and either something is needed to complement the Bx19 or it needs short turns or something to provide more reliable frequent service along that part of the corridor.  I rarely can get a bus along 145th and usually just schlepp up hill to the subway despite not really feeling that doing that because 9 times out of 10, I'll reach the subway faster walking than waiting for that bus.  It's not like traffic along 145th is that bad either, so there really isn't an excuse.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

1. My boss isn't from here so she gets a pass.  He is.  Huge difference.  I already explained earlier about transplants. 

 

2.  Why are you including Bronx crosstown buses when we're talking about within Manhattan? None of the routes mentioned dealing with the same type of hills that the Bx19 deal with, and for the most part one can simply hail a cab, or walk instead of taking these lines. I sure as hell do it with lines like the M50 and M23.  You can walk faster than they go. 

1. Yeah, but at the same time, there's plenty of native New Yorkers who don't understand the bus system. When I lived in Brighton Beach, I understood the subway system inside and out....but I didn't understand the bus system aside from the routes in my immediate area. I knew how to read the sign on the B68 that said "Windsor Terrace/Pritchard Square", but I had no idea that it was near Prospect Park. The B49, I knew northbound buses said "Bed-Stuy", or sometimes "Empire Blvd", but I had no idea that it actually went up by Prospect Park and the Franklin Avenue Shuttle.

 

Matter of fact, when the B68 was extended to Coney Island in 2002, I didn't even realize it went down Neptune Avenue. When my dad used to take me to the NY Aquarium or the rides in Coney Island, we would always walk or take the subway for a couple of stops. When the was cut back to Brighton Beach in 2002, we would usually just walk, but once or twice we took the B68, and I was expecting it to just run on Surf Avenue instead of turning off on West 5th. 

 

I didn't start understanding the bus system until I moved to Staten Island and had to depend on it. Yeah, he grew up in an area without a subway, but at the same time, that doesn't mean he was automatically familiar with the entire bus system. If he and his family just used the bus to get to/from the subway, and tried to use the subway system aside from that, then he'd only be familiar with the routes in his immediate area.

 

2. The Bx33 runs crosstown on 135th, the Bx6 runs crosstown on 155th, and the Bx12 runs crosstown on 207th. I'll give you the Bx12 & Bx33 as being relatively flat, but the Bx6 has hills on its Manhattan portion of the route.

 

And the Central Park crosstown routes, sure you can take a cab, but they've run decently the times I've taken them, even considering the fact they run by themselves (which is what we're talking about). The M23 I'll actually say runs pretty well now that it has +SBS+. I've had to use it to get from 6th Avenue to 2nd Avenue a decent amount of times and the buses ran fairly frequently and moved quick with the bus lanes and off-board payment.

 

Yeah I said he should go out and use it, and I still think that because there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that or are you saying that there's a problem with trying out a bus line? I didn't say he needed to ride the full route (you keep bringing that up as if someone needs to when anyone with common sense can get a good feel for what plagues a bus line by just riding a portion of it) so there's no hypocrisy.  I told him to consider doing something that I've done myself.  Who actually rides a bus route from to end to end anyway? Don't be ridiculous.  Very few people do, so that's just an absurd thing to keep mentioning, and no just because you've used the line from end to end that doesn't make one an expert, but you can keep believing that.

 

I thought that the SBS part of the Bx19 was already obvious. My opinion is that it won't solve the problem unless frequencies are bumped up further, or there is more restructuring of the route.  As it stands, the line supposedly has good frequencies on paper but runs like crap in reality.  The M1 was just an idea... Nothing more... My point is service as it stands along 145th sucks, and either something is needed to complement the Bx19 or it needs short turns or something to provide more reliable frequent service along that part of the corridor.  I rarely can get a bus along 145th and usually just schlepp up hill to the subway despite not really feeling that doing that because 9 times out of 10, I'll reach the subway faster walking than waiting for that bus.  It's not like traffic along 145th is that bad either, so there really isn't an excuse.

 

Well if you're only riding it in Manhattan, then you're missing out on the Lenox Avenue short-turns, which take out some of the frequency on the Manhattan end (the only scheduled short-turns are a few ones in the morning coming from the depot. That, and maybe if you want to count the overnight terminal at Broadway as a short-turn since it's a block short of Riverside Drive). 

[B35 via Church]

The bold is what my point of contention with B35 is based on. I get the sense from him that bus service gets worse on high ridership corridors if there is any shift from the former towards the latter. That's where I disagree with him. I feel that there is no one rule as to how service should be allocated between local and limited stop route variants. If passenger volumes indicate a massive demand for a select (pun intended) few stops on a route then something more towards the latter is what most effectively serves the passengers.

Nein! (No... Negative....)

This isn't about a lack of an understanding of the commutative property of math....

 

My gripe is that local bus service gets worse as more service is being dedicated towards SBS'..... There is a push to have more riders take SBS' over (the former) LTD service of a route.... In turn, the MTA is being even less attentive/showing less of an incentive to have riders take local buses with lines that now have SBS on them, compared to the incentive to have riders take locals when that same route had a LTD counterpart....

 

The lessening of bus service in general with (SBS + locals) is not an issue I have.... Yet, anyway.

 

The other disagreement stems for him believing that the SBS branding is being used to push routes from the former towards the latter at the detriment of commuters. The problem is that there is no evidence to show that frequencies shifted massively in favor of SBS service on any SBS corridors. The decline of the B44 and B46 locals has mostly to do with reliability which is an issue with nearly every route. Even with the Bx12 and M15 where you did see SBS service increase and local service decrease the ridership patterns before SBS were not showing a large market of people exclusively depending on local service. The liveliness of the Bx12 and M15 locals before SBS had a lot to do with those routes having service allocations in line with the former scenario you describe which lead lots of headway focused commuters to take local service in the event it showed before an LTD did. With those routes seeing service shift more towards the latter there is limited incentive to take a local bus unless you absolutely need to board/exit from a local stop. Lessening the incentive to take a local bus doesn't necessarily make service worse if the number of BPH on the corridor doesn't go down (which it hasn't on any SBS corridor) and the local buses are less crowded meaning those who fully need to take advantage of local service get more room on the bus.

It doesn't have to be a massive shift, the fact that it's happening on any noticeable scale I am intolerant of.... You can attempt to minimize what's going on with the B44 & B46 local, but I know what I'm seeing & experiencing out here... You mention reliability - yes, that's a problem with bus routes in general, but the addition of SBS & the phasing out of LTD service have made reliability on both of those local variants worse..... Kudos to the MTA for making reliability worse on the local variants !!.... So much for some supposed advantage that you think was gained by having B46's run locally along Broadway & having B44's run local only along NY av.....

 

The limited incentive to taking local buses is part of the problem, the way I see it.... We should not be discouraging local service usage - this is the general disposition I'm sensing from your posts & that is what I don't agree with....  This crap about a niche market.... The way I see it, the MTA's ultimate goal with SBS is to have everyone embark upon them so they wont have to provide local service.... That is where the lessening of overall bus service/BPH (local + SBS) will come into play, because there is no way in hell they're going to run the same number of BPH on some route currently with local service & SBS service, than if some route were to have all of its local service taken away to solely have SBS running along it.... That includes all four aforementioned routes in question - and then some.....

 

Lastly, that last statement is not remotely close to my position... The discrepancy/ratio of SBS to locals, to (then) LTD's to locals is not the same - and I refuse to believe otherwise with what's goin on out here.... The MTA is doing enough dictating of riders' commuting habits as it is & it is only getting worse with the injection of SBS into the bus system.... One more thing - this notion of local buses being less crowded is not exactly true, because again, there are people trying to cram onto less local buses... These are the people I strongly believe the MTA are trying to have give up on taking local service..... Or in a word, Convert.

 

Again, it doesn't have to be massive for it to be a problem....

 

The thing is you can't have it both ways.  You can't expect the to run all of these SBS buses AND run tons of local bus service too.  They're just not going to do that because it creates an unequal balance of service which is definitely happening around the city.  The SBS lines get all of the attention and the regular local lines, they barely want to provide service for them.

That creates an amount of service they don't want to (and won't) provide.... There is definitely more of a push to have more people taking SBS' over locals, than there ever were LTD's to locals when LTD's were the proverbial new kid on the block.....

Edited May 9, 2017 by B35 via Church

[DaTransitMan4608]

Okay I'll admit, I've been skimming through this whole Bx19 thing and not paying it too much attention on account of finals week, so I'm hoping someone can bring me up to speed.

 

I will drop my 2 cents in here though, whenever I'm waiting for the Bx19 in Harlem, which I've been taking very frequently lately, I've noticed that there are times when I've waited a good 20-25 minutes for an E/B bus at Convent/145th, while seeing at least 2-3 heading to Riverbank Park. Now idk if them being late coming from the Bronx has anything to do with it (I have a good feeling it does though), but whatever it is, its creating a cascade effect on that line. I don't propose making it an SBS line just yet though. I say for the time being, just make it Limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Q43 Floral Park]

Yeah I said he should go out and use it, and I still think that because there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that or are you saying that there's a problem with trying out a bus line? I didn't say he needed to ride the full route (you keep bringing that up as if someone needs to when anyone with common sense can get a good feel for what plagues a bus line by just riding a portion of it) so there's no hypocrisy.  I told him to consider doing something that I've done myself.  Who actually rides a bus route from to end to end anyway? Don't be ridiculous.  Very few people do, so that's just an absurd thing to keep mentioning, and no just because you've used the line from end to end that doesn't make one an expert, but you can keep believing that.

 

I thought that the SBS part of the Bx19 was already obvious. My opinion is that it won't solve the problem unless frequencies are bumped up further, or there is more restructuring of the route.  As it stands, the line supposedly has good frequencies on paper but runs like crap in reality.  The M1 was just an idea... Nothing more... My point is service as it stands along 145th sucks, and either something is needed to complement the Bx19 or it needs short turns or something to provide more reliable frequent service along that part of the corridor.  I rarely can get a bus along 145th and usually just schlepp up hill to the subway despite not really feeling that doing that because 9 times out of 10, I'll reach the subway faster walking than waiting for that bus.  It's not like traffic along 145th is that bad either, so there really isn't an excuse.

 

The thing about a thread is you can go back a couple pages and get receipts....

 

In his initial post he never said he only used the subway nor did he state that "we're "limiting" ourselves from a transit perspective"... you did. He said "[he] knows next to nothing about the bus system" and you can still use something without having a full comprehension of it. I never said ride the entire route at once as that would be time consuming (people ride routes [ex. the Q46] from end to end everyday for work). I said that before making a call on the 145 Street portion, it might be a good idea for both of you to familiarize yourselves with the other portions of the Bx19 so that you can see the big picture. I never stated I had an issue with you telling him to ride the Bx19, I stated I had an issue with your tirade and saying he should be ashamed of himself. Going off the facts presented, an ad hominem argument isn't a means of encouraging someone, its berating them and warrants an apology.

 

 There's no standard on a "good feel for a route" as every individual has a different sense of direction and amount of time it takes to process, assess, analyze and formulate thoughts from new information. You're implying someone can comprehend the entire list of issues with a 6.8 mile route by riding 1.2 miles of it (17.6%). That's like me telling someone, go ride the Glen Oaks Q46 from Kew Gardens to Parsons and tell me if it needs SBS. They would have to assume that the conditions (time of day, weather, vehicle type, passenger load etc.) on the ridden section fit the norm for the entire route and that's illogical without supporting data (something the average NYer doesn't have/know). The Bx19 is serving 2 boroughs + areas with different geographical features, uses 40/60fts and hits most of its points of interest in the Bronx. I'm not saying riders can't gauge the issues from experience. I'm saying it wouldn't be rational to draw a specific conclusion from the Lenox-Riverbank section alone, apply it generally to the entire route and say you comprehend/know how to rectify it's issues.

 

I already stated I'm not an expert on the Bx19, but if you were confident in your previously obtained expertise on the Bx19 and already set on it needing SBS, when Rail asked about it, you wouldn't have said "I don't know about it having SBS, or not" originally or followed up with "You think so? Why is that?" when B35 stated it was a matter of time....

 

To put this is in terms you might understand, The Bx7 and express rush hour experiments are exactly why you can't look at a portion of a route (in this case the Bx19s unreliability on 145), slap a quick Rush hour fix on it to somewhat pacify people (sending the M1 across 145), and expect things to improve. If the main demographics aren't benefiting, it's destined to fail. This one of those rare times when SBSing a route has few drawbacks (again as B35 said as long as they don't botch it).

 

 

2. The Bx33 runs crosstown on 135th, the Bx6 runs crosstown on 155th, and the Bx12 runs crosstown on 207th. I'll give you the Bx12 & Bx33 as being relatively flat, but the Bx6 has hills on its Manhattan portion of the route.

 

Well if you're only riding it in Manhattan, then you're missing out on the Lenox Avenue short-turns, which take out some of the frequency on the Manhattan end (the only scheduled short-turns are a few ones in the morning coming from the depot. That, and maybe if you want to count the overnight terminal at Broadway as a short-turn since it's a block short of Riverside Drive).

 

If it's a crosstown, it's the worst one because there is nothing stopping it from getting to Riverside Dr while serving CC. They seem intent on SBSing every crosstown though but I wonder how that one would go...The last block of the Bx12 is a hill and all hills between the bridge and University also. 

 

As far as I know none of the Bx-Manhattan routes have short runs that mainly serve the Manhattan side. All of the Bx12 SBS runs go to Pelham Bay at least and I don't expect to see Bx6 SBS runs dropping anywhere West of HP .

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I don't get the whole 'sky is falling' mentality regarding local service on corridors where the ridership is so high you're not going to even consider purging local service. Even if there is some ulterior motive on the part of the MTA it's not working to change commute patterns at all.

 

- Q44 SBS is not pulling loads of riders away from the Q20 

- Bx41 local and SBS buses are utilized almost exactly in lockstep with the way the Bx41 local and LTD were 

- More people took the B44 local than did the B44 SBS in the first year of SBS operation. Even based on the 2015 numbers SBS and local usage is nearly equal. 

- A bunch of other SBS branded routes are Manhattan crosstowns (there's some weird emphasis on attaching the SBS brand to those routes) and thus aren't relevant to this discussion. 

 

Even if the MTA wants SBS to be the star of the show as far as buses are concerned, riders are ultimately saying NO in nearly every case. Thus I am further stand in my lack of concern with local service on these corridors. 

[checkmatechamp13]

If it's a crosstown, it's the worst one because there is nothing stopping it from getting to Riverside Dr while serving CC. They seem intent on SBSing every crosstown though but I wonder how that one would go...The last block of the Bx12 is a hill and all hills between the bridge and University also. 

 

As far as I know none of the Bx-Manhattan routes have short runs that mainly serve the Manhattan side. All of the Bx12 SBS runs go to Pelham Bay at least and I don't expect to see Bx6 SBS runs dropping anywhere West of HP .

 

The thing with +SBS+ is that it only works if you have frequent service. If you miss the bus because you're fumbling at the ticket machine and you have to wait another 20 minutes for the next crosstown Bx33, you might as well just walk.

 

But yeah, I do agree it should be extended further west. At least to the train, so you give CCNY students (and Hamilton Heights residents in general) a quicker way to reach the Lexington Avenue Line (especially for Bronx-bound service) instead of having to take the M100/101, and give Mott Haven an easier connection to the train. 

[B35 via Church]

I don't get the whole 'sky is falling' mentality regarding local service on corridors where the ridership is so high you're not going to even consider purging local service. Even if there is some ulterior motive on the part of the MTA it's not working to change commute patterns at all.

 

- Q44 SBS is not pulling loads of riders away from the Q20 

- Bx41 local and SBS buses are utilized almost exactly in lockstep with the way the Bx41 local and LTD were 

- More people took the B44 local than did the B44 SBS in the first year of SBS operation. Even based on the 2015 numbers SBS and local usage is nearly equal. 

- A bunch of other SBS branded routes are Manhattan crosstowns (there's some weird emphasis on attaching the SBS brand to those routes) and thus aren't relevant to this discussion.

 

Even if the MTA wants SBS to be the star of the show as far as buses are concerned, riders are ultimately saying NO in nearly every case. Thus I am further stand in my lack of concern with local service on these corridors.

I don't get how in one breath you're talking about a consideration of local service being purged due to high ridership along corridors & in another, wanting to convey how well local service is still used on routes that have SBS & local service.... I don't wanna hear anything about any purging of local service when you are the very person talking about "sardine bus service"..... It's like you want to defend SBS & shit on it  at the same time.... I'm not being bothered with the former - especially when there was nothing wrong with the LTD service/concept for this agency to resort to washing its hands with it....

 

As far as those bullet points, all it tells me is that the MTA's efforts (so far) in getting people to take SBS' over locals isn't all too successful....

 

- Q44 SBS is not pulling loads of riders away from the Q20  - GOOD!

- Bx41 local and SBS buses are utilized almost exactly in lockstep with the way the Bx41 local and LTD were - GOOD!

- More people took the B44 local than did the B44 SBS in the first year of SBS operation. Even based on the 2015 numbers SBS and local usage is nearly equal. - GOOD!

 

To sum it up, that reply should be aimed at the MTA... You can continue your lack of concern or whatever....

What I am, is glad people are still taking locals in the numbers that they are - despite the blatant forcing of SBS service onto commuters.... I want their efforts with this shit to be one big FAIL!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing about a thread is you can go back a couple pages and get receipts....

 

In his initial post he never said he only used the subway nor did he state that "we're "limiting" ourselves from a transit perspective"... you did. He said "[he] knows next to nothing about the bus system" and you can still use something without having a full comprehension of it. I never said ride the entire route at once as that would be time consuming (people ride routes [ex. the Q46] from end to end everyday for work). I said that before making a call on the 145 Street portion, it might be a good idea for both of you to familiarize yourselves with the other portions of the Bx19 so that you can see the big picture. I never stated I had an issue with you telling him to ride the Bx19, I stated I had an issue with your tirade and saying he should be ashamed of himself. Going off the facts presented, an ad hominem argument isn't a means of encouraging someone, its berating them and warrants an apology.

 

 There's no standard on a "good feel for a route" as every individual has a different sense of direction and amount of time it takes to process, assess, analyze and formulate thoughts from new information. You're implying someone can comprehend the entire list of issues with a 6.8 mile route by riding 1.2 miles of it (17.6%). That's like me telling someone, go ride the Glen Oaks Q46 from Kew Gardens to Parsons and tell me if it needs SBS. They would have to assume that the conditions (time of day, weather, vehicle type, passenger load etc.) on the ridden section fit the norm for the entire route and that's illogical without supporting data (something the average NYer doesn't have/know). The Bx19 is serving 2 boroughs + areas with different geographical features, uses 40/60fts and hits most of its points of interest in the Bronx. I'm not saying riders can't gauge the issues from experience. I'm saying it wouldn't be rational to draw a specific conclusion from the Lenox-Riverbank section alone, apply it generally to the entire route and say you comprehend/know how to rectify it's issues.

 

I already stated I'm not an expert on the Bx19, but if you were confident in your previously obtained expertise on the Bx19 and already set on it needing SBS, when Rail asked about it, you wouldn't have said "I don't know about it having SBS, or not" originally or followed up with "You think so? Why is that?" when B35 stated it was a matter of time....

 

To put this is in terms you might understand, The Bx7 and express rush hour experiments are exactly why you can't look at a portion of a route (in this case the Bx19s unreliability on 145), slap a quick Rush hour fix on it to somewhat pacify people (sending the M1 across 145), and expect things to improve. If the main demographics aren't benefiting, it's destined to fail. This one of those rare times when SBSing a route has few drawbacks (again as B35 said as long as they don't botch it). 

He's always talked about making the system more connected, so I was talking about that in a general context, not in terms of what he said in this actual thread.  I don't necessarily agree with him on that either (for example, I don't care for the idea of using commuter rails to improve subway service, but he does) and if you look at other posts between the two of us in other threads, you'll see that, and that was the main reason I called him out for saying that he didn't know the interworkings of the bus system.  My take on it is if you're going to make such statements about making our system work more as "one", then to me it's hypocritical to then not have the sort of knowledge that one should have about the system as a whole, so again, I stand by what I said and I am not apologizing.  If he feels as strongly as he claims he does about how our system should be more unified, then he should go out and learn the interworkings of it, be it the bus or the rail system.  

 

As for it needing SBS, no I wasn't confident on it, but since folks like yourself proposed it, I said sure why not?  I was speaking hypothetically.  Quite frankly what else can you do to make that line more reliable aside from giving it SBS?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay I'll admit, I've been skimming through this whole Bx19 thing and not paying it too much attention on account of finals week, so I'm hoping someone can bring me up to speed.

 

I will drop my 2 cents in here though, whenever I'm waiting for the Bx19 in Harlem, which I've been taking very frequently lately, I've noticed that there are times when I've waited a good 20-25 minutes for an E/B bus at Convent/145th, while seeing at least 2-3 heading to Riverbank Park. Now idk if them being late coming from the Bronx has anything to do with it (I have a good feeling it does though), but whatever it is, its creating a cascade effect on that line. I don't propose making it an SBS line just yet though. I say for the time being, just make it Limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

This is what I don't understand either.  I don't get the large gaps in service (in either direction) considering the headways that they have, so something doesn't add up.

Okay I'll admit, I've been skimming through this whole Bx19 thing and not paying it too much attention on account of finals week, so I'm hoping someone can bring me up to speed.

 

I will drop my 2 cents in here though, whenever I'm waiting for the Bx19 in Harlem, which I've been taking very frequently lately, I've noticed that there are times when I've waited a good 20-25 minutes for an E/B bus at Convent/145th, while seeing at least 2-3 heading to Riverbank Park. Now idk if them being late coming from the Bronx has anything to do with it (I have a good feeling it does though), but whatever it is, its creating a cascade effect on that line. I don't propose making it an SBS line just yet though. I say for the time being, just make it Limited.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

This is what I don't understand either.  I don't get the large gaps in service (in either direction) considering the headways that they have, so something doesn't add up.

[BrooklynBus]

- More people took the B44 local than did the B44 SBS in the first year of SBS operation. Even based on the 2015 numbers SBS and local usage is nearly equal. 

 

And the SBS uses artics while the local uses 40 footers. So what does that tell you about crowding?

 

Also NY Avenue service which serves two major hospitals was cut by over 50 percent.

 

Also waits on the local were frequently being reported at 45 minutes. That was due to overloading, not to a lack of reliability from increased traffic.

 

Complaints were so widespread, the MTA was forced to increase local service. There is a big incentive to use the SBS but people still prefer the local even though the SBS is stealing some riders from the B49 northbound increasing SBS numbers. So what does all this tell you about the success of the B44 SBS. Not to mention that the SBS carries only about six passengers per bus south of Avenue X in both directions at all times are except when shifts are changing at the Emmons Avenue nursing homes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And the SBS uses artics while the local uses 40 footers. So what does that tell you about crowding?

 

Also NY Avenue service which serves two major hospitals was cut by over 50 percent.

 

Also waits on the local were frequently being reported at 45 minutes. That was due to overloading, not to a lack of reliability from increased traffic.

 

Complaints were so widespread, the MTA was forced to increase local service. There is a big incentive to use the SBS but people still prefer the local even though the SBS is stealing some riders from the B49 northbound increasing SBS numbers. So what does all this tell you about the success of the B44 SBS. Not to mention that the SBS carries only about six passengers per bus south of Avenue X in both directions at all times are except when shifts are changing at the Emmons Avenue nursing homes.

Something I forgot to add earlier when I posted this morning was that part of this so-called "fascination" with SBS service is federal funding.  The can obtain such funding by converting routes to SBS, so this is yet another ploy by them to reduce their financial costs.  Federal funding means they have to cough up less dollars for things like new buses.  

 

The B44 is a great example of that:

 

 

 

he first Select Bus Service route in Brooklyn is on track to start speeding bus trips next year, after Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and NYC Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan announced yesterday afternoon that the project has secured a $28 million federal grant.

Source: http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2012/11/14/city-receives-federal-funding-for-full-nostrand-avenue-select-bus-route/

 

$28 million dollars in a federal grant is a nice chunk of change, and that's just for one route.  This is why the city loves it so much despite all of the hot air they spew about how it will speed up service, etc.

 

Question for Brooklyn Bus or anyone who may know... Is there a limit to the federal funding that the can receive for SBS service? I'm also curious as to how much money it has received since the debut of the service, and how much they've received annually? It would be interesting to do an analysis on that.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8