Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

http://web.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/manh/m079scur.pdf

Something else that I find annoying with these SBS schedules... The lack of time points... No time points at any subway station is just stupid.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Something else that I find annoying with these SBS schedules... The lack of time points... No time points at any subway station is just stupid.

The schedules are headway based. Times are scheduled for terminals and the intermediate stops only see the headways posted on the Guide A Ride. The headway based scheduling allows flexibility for operators and dispatchers.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The schedules are headway based. Times are scheduled for terminals and the intermediate stops only see the headways posted on the Guide A Ride. The headway based scheduling allows flexibility for operators and dispatchers.

SBS service is supposed to be an improvement for passengers, not the B/O's. We should have more than three time points on such routes that do nothing for people in between. That's one reason the M34 has not been successful. The idea is that service is supposed to be frequent enough that riders don't have to reference the schedules as much but the reality is wait times can be long, especially when buses are delayed. More time points allow for easier planning of trips.

[checkmatechamp13]

SBS service is supposed to be an improvement for passengers, not the B/O's. We should have more than three time points on such routes that do nothing for people in between. That's one reason the M34 has not been successful. The idea is that service is supposed to be frequent enough that riders don't have to reference the schedules as much but the reality is wait times can be long, especially when buses are delayed. More time points allow for easier planning of trips.

 

Headway-based scheduling is supposed to be better for the passengers because the buses don't have to be held at timepoints just to remain on schedule. If traffic overall is a little bit light, then all the buses get to run a few minutes early, but the headways remain essentially the same (as opposed to now where they have to drive slowly or hold at a stop to avoid getting ahead of schedule).

 

I do agree there should be at least a third timepoint on each of the M34 branches (probably Herald Square, though the old local schedule had it at it at 9th Avenue), but I think a three is enough on the M79. Timepoints are generally supposed to be spaced out about 10 minutes apart anyway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Headway-based scheduling is supposed to be better for the passengers because the buses don't have to be held at timepoints just to remain on schedule. If traffic overall is a little bit light, then all the buses get to run a few minutes early, but the headways remain essentially the same (as opposed to now where they have to drive slowly or hold at a stop to avoid getting ahead of schedule).

 

I do agree there should be at least a third timepoint on each of the M34 branches (probably Herald Square, though the old local schedule had it at it at 9th Avenue), but I think a three is enough on the M79. Timepoints are generally supposed to be spaced out about 10 minutes apart anyway.

I get all of that, but as a passenger it sucks. Here's what usually happens... Passengers don't see a bus in the time it's supposed to arrive (happens quite frequently). You can't really check the schedule because of the lack of a checkpoint and people start to give up and just walk or take a taxi. That's precisely what I do and what happens on quite a few SBS lines. They need to find a way to add more checkpoints, particularly at key points. I think they lose a lot of ridership that way because buses are too delayed and thus that system they're trying to implement doesn't work. It also is stupid on a line like the M34 that has very limited service past a certain time.

[checkmatechamp13]

I get all of that, but as a passenger it sucks. Here's what usually happens... Passengers don't see a bus in the time it's supposed to arrive (happens quite frequently). You can't really check the schedule because of the lack of a checkpoint and people start to give up and just walk or take a taxi. That's precisely what I do and what happens on quite a few SBS lines. They need to find a way to add more checkpoints, particularly at key points. I think they lose a lot of ridership that way because buses are too delayed and thus that system they're trying to implement doesn't work. It also is stupid on a line like the M34 that has very limited service past a certain time.

 

Well, I do agree that on the schedules (meaning the physical Guide-A-Rides at the stop, not the PDF schedules online), they should put down an estimate of the times buses are supposed to arrive, and then put a note that buses may leave earlier depending on traffic conditions. At least it gives you an idea of when the bus is supposed to come and should be the case at all stops, not just checkpoints. Especially since the M34 isn't a frequent route, even during rush hours (and especially if you need a particular branch). I mean, 20 minute headways on Sunday, and you can't even get an idea of when during that 20 minute timeframe the bus is supposed to come?

 

Maybe they're hoping people will just use BusTime to see how far the next bus is, but even then it would be nice to get an idea of when the bus is supposed to arrive, without having to rely on something like Google Transit to give you the exact schedule at every stop.

 

But as far as adding back timepoints to the SBS schedules, those timepoints are only there to stop buses from leaving early, not leaving late. So if a bus is scheduled to depart at 8:05 but departs at 8:02, you have something to hold against the driver, but if it's scheduled to depart at 8:05 but departs at 8:15, there's not much you can do to hold anybody accountable. If the dispatchers see a problem forming, they should address it accordingly (so if one bus is running way too early and is causing a gap behind it, they should hold it back for a few minutes to have more even service, or even if a bus is running on-time, but all the other buses are running late, it should probably be held back a little bit, assuming there's adequate recovery time at the terminal). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, I do agree that on the schedules (meaning the physical Guide-A-Rides at the stop, not the PDF schedules online), they should put down an estimate of the times buses are supposed to arrive, and then put a note that buses may leave earlier depending on traffic conditions. At least it gives you an idea of when the bus is supposed to come and should be the case at all stops, not just checkpoints. Especially since the M34 isn't a frequent route, even during rush hours (and especially if you need a particular branch). I mean, 20 minute headways on Sunday, and you can't even get an idea of when during that 20 minute timeframe the bus is supposed to come?

 

Maybe they're hoping people will just use BusTime to see how far the next bus is, but even then it would be nice to get an idea of when the bus is supposed to arrive, without having to rely on something like Google Transit to give you the exact schedule at every stop.

 

But as far as adding back timepoints to the SBS schedules, those timepoints are only there to stop buses from leaving early, not leaving late. So if a bus is scheduled to depart at 8:05 but departs at 8:02, you have something to hold against the driver, but if it's scheduled to depart at 8:05 but departs at 8:15, there's not much you can do to hold anybody accountable. If the dispatchers see a problem forming, they should address it accordingly (so if one bus is running way too early and is causing a gap behind it, they should hold it back for a few minutes to have more even service, or even if a bus is running on-time, but all the other buses are running late, it should probably be held back a little bit, assuming there's adequate recovery time at the terminal).

 

I don't think people really even think about when the bus arrives before in terms of being early or not, esp. crosstown routes. What I do is check BusTime. If I don't see anything and I can't figure out when a bus may be due, I'm not waiting, and that's what others do too. I will say that for that reason, I avoid using certain lines unless necessary, esp. the M34.

[B35 via Church]

A route like the BX12 is actually a great candidate for SBS, it's that it just need a dispatcher on each end to make sure that the buses are making the frequencies and are not bunching. M15 SBS has a 3min frequency during the AM rush which is better than most trains in the morning so it really seems as they wanna push the M15 as own Subway line. The Q44 can only work if there are 4 dispatchers (1 at each end and 2 at Flushing) with the removal of the stopover at Flushing for both the Q20 and Q44.

 

Also SBS would be better if you can pay of the bus as well as buy a ticket, the operator just prints a nullified transfer (Says Roue and direction but doesn't work on other buses) that acts as your ticket. that'll save the time B/O's have to wait for late passengers who are printing tickets from the machine.

The Bx12 should be a great candidate for real BRT..... You say that like it's as easy as pie.... As if dispatcher can control the traffic (and being real, the f***ery) that goes on along Fordham rd.... They can't control the adults acting like 15 year old kids all boisterous (or "ratchet"), jaywalking with their heads buried deep into they instagrams with wanton disregard for their own lives, crossing such a busy artery.... Or arguing with their boyfriends/girlfriends over the phone as they're crossing the street.... Then want to pin 101% blame on the driver when they get hit....

 

You may think nothing of it as a pedestrian, but things like that are detrimental to the flow of traffic.... It causes missed green lights... It causes having to hit the brakes to let that person cross, as you don't want to actually hit the person (or being real about it, having to avoid the drama that comes with almost hitting a person).... But far more common is the  sheer amount of bad driving taking place....

 

Something else that I find annoying with these SBS schedules... The lack of time points... No time points at any subway station is just stupid.

....More time points allow for easier planning of trips.

Sure, for the passenger - who bus service is supposed to be about & ultimately beneficial for... But who cares about the "small details" when you have an agenda to push with SBS.....

 

Headway based scheduling in NYC is nothing more than having buses travel rogue.... Buses aren't timely with timepoint based scheduling, so why in the world would I expect to believe that buses will arrive every 'x' amount of minutes.... Same shit, different toilet....

 

With the B46SBS in particular, who needs any sort of schedule when service is as front-loaded the way it is.... How in the world do you justify 4 buses on the same route leaving a terminal in unison? I've never even seen that happen with the subway shuttle buses.... I've never even seen that on this B35 here.... That is what I saw yesterday while passing Kings Plaza; on a weekend nonetheless.... I just can't be seeing the worst of the worst w/ bunching when it comes to SBS on this route all the time, so that leads me to believe that this type of shit is closer to the norm than that of an anomaly..... Quite frankly, the blatency of it all I find disgusting....

Edited May 21, 2017 by B35 via Church

[A Former New Yorker]

What Are Some Upcoming SBS Routes I Want To Ride The Original Before They Become SBS

[B35 via Church]

What Are Some Upcoming SBS Routes I Want To Ride The Original Before They Become SBS

What are you asking with this? Go ahead & ride whatever you want....

[East New York]

I get all of that, but as a passenger it sucks. Here's what usually happens... Passengers don't see a bus in the time it's supposed to arrive (happens quite frequently). You can't really check the schedule because of the lack of a checkpoint and people start to give up and just walk or take a taxi. That's precisely what I do and what happens on quite a few SBS lines. They need to find a way to add more checkpoints, particularly at key points. I think they lose a lot of ridership that way because buses are too delayed and thus that system they're trying to implement doesn't work. It also is stupid on a line like the M34 that has very limited service past a certain time.

My thing is this. It's 2017 now and if anyone chooses to wait for a bus that's on them. There are waaaay too many apps now that the actual GPS locations of the buses. I haven't waited on a bus in at least 2 years now. If you don't want the apps then Google Transit has all of them including live next time arrivals.

 

What Are Some Upcoming SBS Routes I Want To Ride The Original Before They Become SBS

Bx6, Q52/53, and B82 in that order.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My thing is this. It's 2017 now and if anyone chooses to wait for a bus that's on them. There are waaaay too many apps now that the actual GPS locations of the buses. I haven't waited on a bus in at least 2 years now. If you don't want the apps then Google Transit has all of them including live next time arrivals.

 

I agree, but I will say that when it's cold out or there is inclement weather, the last thing you want to do is pull off your warm gloves and pull out your cell phone to see where the bus is unless you absolutely have to.  I noticed this morning and over the weekend while on the express bus passing by various stops along 79th/81st street that they have countdown clocks at just about every stop. I think that's impressive, and clearly the local politicians representing that area was willing to put up funding for them because they aren't cheap. I think it's great because there are a lot of elderly people in that area and people that aren't necessarily tech savvy.  I often times will help out in my neighborhood when we're waiting for the bus.  Elderly people or otherwise will ask if I have that "device" to see where the bus is and I'll share what info I have with them.

 

Another thing I've noticed now is some drivers will purposely show their location when they are at the terminal so that you're sure that the bus will be leaving on time. In those cases, it allows me to get coffee or whatever, relax and then walk over to the stop just before the bus is due.  I think the needs to do more in this area than they have.  When they first debuted BusTime, they talked about this very thing, but it's very hit or miss.   

[Union Tpke]

My thing is this. It's 2017 now and if anyone chooses to wait for a bus that's on them. There are waaaay too many apps now that the actual GPS locations of the buses. I haven't waited on a bus in at least 2 years now. If you don't want the apps then Google Transit has all of them including live next time arrivals.

 

 

Bx6, Q52/53, and B82 in that order.

 

I have a cell phone, not a smart phone. It doesn't have internet, but I can text for some info. Not everyone has a smartphone.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have a cell phone, not a smart phone. It doesn't have internet, but I can text for some info. Not everyone has a smartphone.

I saw a lady standing near me yesterday with a flip phone. It took all the energy in me not to do a double take since I've never had a flip phone as my primary phone.  It's shocking that they even still exist.

[BreeddekalbL]

I saw a lady standing near me yesterday with a flip phone. It took all the energy in me not to do a double take since I've never had a flip phone as my primary phone.  It's shocking that they even still exist.

 

probably still exist since it still has a business in the burner market

[East New York]

You know I do forget that not everyone has a smart phone theses days. I guess since my 77 year old grandma does I assumed somewhere along the way that everyone does! Lol. I haven't had a flip phone since my Nextel in the late 90's and early '00's.

 

That being said I do understand and it's something I frequently forget about. I've has smart phones since 2008.

 

But yeah I do see the significance of the posted schedules, it's just that there is a 90% chance the bus won't be there at the posted time. Example, Flatbush and many Bronx routes seem to run hot (early) on overnight hours. So if get to a stop after an early bus has come you have no way of knowing there won't be one anytime soon.

Edited May 22, 2017 by East New York

[Union Tpke]

You know I do forget that not everyone has a smart phone theses days. I guess since my 77 year old grandma does I assumed somewhere along the way that everyone does! Lol. I haven't had a flip phone since my Nextel in the late 90's and early '00's.

 

That being said I do understand and it's something I frequently forget about. I've has smart phones since 2008.

 

But yeah I do see the significance of the posted schedules, it's just that there is a 90% chance the bus won't be there at the posted time. Example, Flatbush and many Bronx routes seem to run hot (early) on overnight hours. So if get to a stop after an early bus has come you have no way of knowing there won't be one anytime soon.

 

I didn't get a phone until after 8th grade, and I still have the phone. I am finishing 11th grade.

[Future ENY OP]

But yeah I do see the significance of the posted schedules, it's just that there is a 90% chance the bus won't be there at the posted time. Example, Flatbush and many Bronx routes seem to run hot (early) on overnight hours. So if get to a stop after an early bus has come you have no way of knowing there won't be one anytime soon.

Most of Brooklyn and Bronx Division buses run HOT during overnight hours. I could name you Brooklyn routes for days. However, the big brother could be spying on these pages as we speak.

[paulrivera]

I have a cell phone, not a smart phone. It doesn't have internet, but I can text for some info. Not everyone has a smartphone.

Yep. Text the bus stop code on the Guide-A-Ride to 511-123 and it gives you the next 3 buses.

[Union Tpke]

I have done that. They are not as accurate though.

 

Yep. Text the bus stop code on the Guide-A-Ride to 511-123 and it gives you the next 3 buses.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

Too soon to ask those questions, give it a year or two and we'll find out...

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

Too soon to ask those questions, give it a year or two and we'll find out...

If you're referring to the question above your post, then its not too soon to ask the question placed as the Q52/53 SBS is supposed to start later this year.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

I'm well aware Woodhaven SBS is planned to start later this year; However,given how things can change asking exactly  when it would start and how many artics would be on each route? are questions no one can answer at this point. They might have suggestions but nothing definite, besides the XD60 for the Bus Co aren't official ordered yet let alone here for us to see...so too soon is too soon nothing is set in stone.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

Is there a date for the Bx6 SBS yet?

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

SBS fleet updates:

 

B82 has been pushed back from this year to next summer to allow for brand new buses to be implemented on the line.

Bx6 will start this summer with XN40's, and will be converted to artic in 2018.

Q52/53 will start this fall with an expedited order of XD60's. MTA is now moving to award the contract to New Flyer in short order and have the buses run off the current order.

 

Pending assignment for LaGuardia Depot will likely be 6126-6178.

Is there a date for the Bx6 SBS yet?

No?but sometime during the Summer...