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Union Tpke

Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

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4 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

This B82 SBS is going to be rather interesting. Most of the changes will be most felt in Canarsie.

Just hope that East New York has enough buses to handle the SBS and Local. Something tells me that the B82 Local will return POSSIBLY back to Ulmer Park. I see some re-arraigning in the Brooklyn Division in 2018. 

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Can we get an SBS on the Bx9? Thing is to dam delayed during rush hour along Broadway and most of it's route.

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10 hours ago, bstar1 said:

B3 could also go to Flatbush.

The B3 is only blocks from Flatbush Depot.  The only issue I would have is the room. I'm not too sure of the runs that are required for the B3. But, I had a thoughtful discussion about the B4 also shifhting to the bush. But the way the schedule is designed for that route it's best for Gleason. I would say the same for the B3. Plus the B3's terminal is ULMER Park along with the B6 and B64 (if my memory serves me correct) 

12 hours ago, Vtrain said:

If that was to happen, then the B36 can go to Flatbush Depot to free up the room for the B82 local service.

The 36 is very interesting. I would consider only b/c it's a direct interline with the 44 local at Avenue U also at Sheepshead Bay Road for the B49.  Again, how the schedules are done they are based at UP. I do find the 36 a long deadhead from CI to Ulmer Park.  Flatbush is only 10-15 mins out. So.. B36 can possibly go to FB. It's all about room for Flatbush to take on. I forgot to add that B3/36 also have some type of interline. I'm not certain if it's on Avenue U or somewhere further out. 

Edited by Future ENY OP

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17 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

This B82 SBS is going to be rather interesting. Most of the changes will be most felt in Canarsie.

Just hope that East New York has enough buses to handle the SBS and Local. Something tells me that the B82 Local will return POSSIBLY back to Ulmer Park. I see some re-arraigning in the Brooklyn Division in 2018. 

The B82 Local and SBS can and will be handled at East New York. They'll have artics and the local fleet, which they'll probably cut trips on. There definitely won't be a need to move any part of the B82 elsewhere.

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23 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Can we get an SBS on the Bx9? Thing is to dam delayed during rush hour along Broadway and most of it's route.

Man I remember them days used to take the 9 almost Daily back in the 90's that and the 24 until they cut it.  Is it really that bad? I  would think the 15,19 or the 36 would get SBS before the 9.

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16 minutes ago, bstar1 said:

B3 already goes to Kings Plaza. Take B36 to Ave U and transfer.

I guess what this person is implying that 36 should provide coverage along with the 3 over to Kings Plaza.  1). There's no space to have the B36 terminate at Kings Plaza. It's already in capacity with the B2, B9, B41, B46, B47 and Q35.  I don't think there is an market for that backend of Sheepshead Bay to have direct service to Kings Plaza. 

 

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3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I guess what this person is implying that 36 should provide coverage along with the 3 over to Kings Plaza.  1). There's no space to have the B36 terminate at Kings Plaza. It's already in capacity with the B2, B9, B41, B46, B47 and Q35.  I don't think there is an market for that backend of Sheepshead Bay to have direct service to Kings Plaza. 

 

doesn't the (Q35) go out to the subway station?

Edited by BreeddekalbL

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2 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

doesn't the (Q35) go out to the subway station?

Yes it does. I was just only referring over to the stop on Avenue U and Flatbush. 

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13 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I guess what this person is implying that 36 should provide coverage along with the 3 over to Kings Plaza.  1). There's no space to have the B36 terminate at Kings Plaza. It's already in capacity with the B2, B9, B41, B46, B47 and Q35.  I don't think there is an market for that backend of Sheepshead Bay to have direct service to Kings Plaza. 

 

It could terminate on the west side of Kings Plaza without entering the bus area. Where there is a will, there is a way. 

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Now why does it have to take SBS' for the MTA to FINALLY consider eradicating those turns that entail utilizing Flatbush av to get to/from Flatlands av & Kings Hwy..... I don't know how many times I've brought up having buses go Kings Hwy. > Av. K > Flatlands av (and vice versa for the opposite direction).... One of my reasons has always been the lack of usage b/w Flatbush & Utica (not inclusive).... Another one - simply getting off Flatbush av at times can be a PITA - to only have (local) buses run virtually non-stop to Utica like the LTD's do :lol:

On 9/25/2017 at 1:05 AM, Future ENY OP said:

This B82 SBS is going to be rather interesting. Most of the changes will be most felt in Canarsie.

Just hope that East New York has enough buses to handle the SBS and Local. Something tells me that the B82 Local will return POSSIBLY back to Ulmer Park. I see some re-arraigning in the Brooklyn Division in 2018. 

I personally don't see any of this as an issue.... Can't fathom there being much of anymore trips on the B82 (SBS' + locals) in the future, compared to the amt. of trips currently being ran on the B82 (LTD's + locals).... If there's going to be any shifting around of routes from one depot to another next year, I'd say it'd be for unrelated reason....

As with any of these upcoming SBS routes w/ local counterparts, the concern I'll always have is regarding service type allocation (i.e.

ratio of SBS' to locals)......

On 9/25/2017 at 10:50 AM, Lawrence St said:

Can we get an SBS on the Bx9? Thing is to dam delayed during rush hour along Broadway and most of it's route.

Good luck with that one...

The route's too indirect from end to end; it'd take far too much (to try to "make it work", so to speak) & would be too difficult to have a Bx9 (supposedly) shave a 10-30% off riders' commutes!

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10 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

 

It could terminate on the west side of Kings Plaza without entering the bus area. Where there is a will, there is a way. 

You mean on the Q35 bus stop heading towards Riis Beach?  Also, is there an market for Sheepshead Bay and Coney Island to have direct service to Kings Plaza. I get all the other bus connections in the area. But if this were the case that's something that needs to be looked at. 

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9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Good luck with that one...

The route's too indirect from end to end; it'd take far too much (to try to "make it work", so to speak) & would be too difficult to have a Bx9 (supposedly) shave a 10-30% off riders' commutes!

I'd actually favor SBS just to stop the rampant fare beating, but in terms of speeding up service, I don't see it, particularly along most of Broadway since it runs right under the (1) train. There's just too much congestion and not enough space. Sometimes I take the BxM3 along Broadway near 246th since I'm very close to Fieldston and I observe the Bx9 as I'm waiting.  It seems to get good crowds north of 242nd, likely because of all of the people from Yonkers coming over the border now. This has been particularly exacerbated as rents have increased rapidly in the last few years and parents (increasingly from Yonkers) are are using other addresses to get their kids in schools in Riverdale, so travel patterns are definitely changing, and not necessarily for the better.  I only mention this because I believe there were complaints previously about the Bx9 not carrying that much north of 242nd.

 

---

Speaking of SBS though, I think I've been really impressed with the M79. I'm on the Upper West Side a lot now and while there are some that said that it didn't need it, it's done quite a few things.  For starters, it gives people an alternative to the M86SBS, which can be unreliable and takes a bit longer because of the stupid layout getting to and from the Transverse, not to mention the endless construction East of Park Avenue <_<.  The M79 is more direct in that regard, and gets through Central Park much quicker.  In the evenings, it's especially faster than the M86, and less crowded since there is no subway stop right at 79th street versus the express stop at 86th.  All in all I think it was a good move by the (MTA).  That doesn't mean that the line doesn't get stuck in traffic in the mornings because it does due to the mess along Lexington, but I have been using it several times a week now over the M86 and I prefer it a lot more. From say Madison and 79th you can get to Amsterdam Avenue in roughly 10 minutes, and I find that so far there isn't terribly long gaps in wait time.  When I'm walking along Madison, I always manage to catch one at the corner.  I've also done it from 3rd and 79th as well to Madison or to the West Side and found it quick.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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35 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'd actually favor SBS just to stop the rampant fare beating, but in terms of speeding up service, I don't see it, particularly along most of Broadway since it runs right under the (1) train. There's just too much congestion and not enough space. Sometimes I take the BxM3 along Broadway near 246th since I'm very close to Fieldston and I observe the Bx9 as I'm waiting.  It seems to get good crowds north of 242nd, likely because of all of the people from Yonkers coming over the border now. This has been particularly exacerbated as rents have increased rapidly in the last few years and parents (increasingly from Yonkers) are are using other addresses to get their kids in schools in Riverdale, so travel patterns are definitely changing, and not necessarily for the better.  I only mention this because I believe there were complaints previously about the Bx9 not carrying that much north of 242nd.

 

---

Speaking of SBS though, I think I've been really impressed with the M79. I'm on the Upper West Side a lot now and while there are some that said that it didn't need it, it's done quite a few things.  For starters, it gives people an alternative to the M86SBS, which can be unreliable and takes a bit longer because of the stupid layout getting to and from the Transverse, not to mention the endless construction East of Park Avenue <_<.  The M79 is more direct in that regard, and gets through Central Park much quicker.  In the evenings, it's especially faster than the M86, and less crowded since there is no subway stop right at 79th street versus the express stop at 86th.  All in all I think it was a good move by the (MTA).  That doesn't mean that the line doesn't get stuck in traffic in the mornings because it does due to the mess along Lexington, but I have been using it several times a week now over the M86 and I prefer it a lot more. From say Madison and 79th you can get to Amsterdam Avenue in roughly 10 minutes, and I find that so far there isn't terribly long gaps in wait time.  When I'm walking along Madison, I always manage to catch one at the corner.  I've also done it from 3rd and 79th as well to Madison or to the West Side and found it quick.

The 9 has always had decent ridership even back in the days. People from Yonkers used to just use the 1or 2 Beeline service just drop off southbound and pickup Northbound did they change the policy?

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20 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

The 9 has always had decent ridership even back in the days. People from Yonkers used to just use the 1or 2 Beeline service just drop off southbound and pickup Northbound did they change the policy?

I am not along Broadway that often, and I have never used the Bee Line buses.  I've only used the Bx9 once in the years I've been living in Riverdale, so I have no idea about any changes in policies, but I do know that more people from Yonkers are using the City buses. I don't think anyone questioned the Bx9's overall usage.  The comments from other people were specific to the area north of 242nd.    I think it makes sense.  As rents increase people move further out.  The area just north of the city line in Yonkers still offers commuters access to the Bx9 to the subway and that seems to be what people are doing.  I met a guy one night late who lives in Yonkers and said he was trying a different way to get home (his usual commute was the (1) train to the Bx9 bus) and I told him how surprised I was because he was using the BxM2, which is nowhere near Broadway (that far north).  Then he said he was getting picked up which made the commute more manageable. In any event, SBS or not, the line would have to get some sort of benefit from improvements along Broadway, particularly south of 242nd down to 225th which is where traffic is horrendous most of the day.  The only thing that could help is perhaps banning cars outright during parts of the day. I think there are too many cabs idling in the area which really impacts traffic flow, not to mention increased pollution unnecessarily, and it's something that I may consider discussing with the Community Board (CB8) because quite frankly this has become a problem in my immediate area in the last year or so as well with these cabs idling all around residential blocks.  I'm getting quite irritated with the situation.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I am not along Broadway that often, and I have never used the Bee Line buses.  I've only used the Bx9 once in the years I've been living in Riverdale, so I have no idea about any changes in policies, but I do know that more people from Yonkers are using the City buses. I don't think anyone questioned the Bx9's overall usage.  The comments from other people were specific to the area north of 242nd.    I think it makes sense.  As rents increase people move further out.  The area just north of the city line in Yonkers still offers commuters access to the Bx9 to the subway and that seems to be what people are doing.  I met a guy one night late who lives in Yonkers and said he was trying a different way to get home and I told him how surprised I was because he was using the BxM2, which is nowhere near Broadway that far north.  Then he said he was getting picked up which made the commute more manageable. In any event, SBS or not, the line would have to get some sort of benefit from improvements along Broadway, particularly south of 242nd down to 225th which is where traffic is horrendous most of the day.  The only thing that could help is perhaps banning cars outright during parts of the day. I think there are too many cabs idling in the area which really impacts traffic flow.

Yep I can see that especially the people that lived right over the border Valentine Lane etc.. that goes for the 7,9 and 10 at 262/263rd. I used the 9 often back in the days to the (1) in Highschool and the Pool during summers people used BL service. But these were the days of Tokens and MetroCard Blues. I'm sure that affected patterns and how people rode no transfer double fair. With everything being integrated nowadays you might have a point. Riverdale Av isn't that far from Broadway I used to walk it all the time. 6 blocks maybe. Broadway and Riverdale Ave almost intersect pass the border I could see the use of the BXM2 it's a westside route.  Broadway south of 242 refects the issue with post El's in the City . Jerome, Westchester Ave, Broadway (Bklyn) White Plains,  Don't know if banning cars would work.  Maybe a Bailey Ave reroute?

Edited by RailRunRob

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The B/36 should remain as is as there is no need for the route to be extended to Kings Plaza as the bulk of the ridership is going to the last stop for the B/44 and the B/44 SBS. As far as a market for a B/36 extension, you have to work with the presumption that the ridership will have to come from the Coney Island end of the line as anyone who lives in this area will most likely drive there.if they go there. As far as the loop at Avenue U, there is no parking on Gravesend Neck Road from Nostrand Avenue to East 29th Street on both sides of the street and buses take their layover on either side. As far as the turn into East 29th Street  and then onto Avenue  U, occasionally there are some slight delays due to deliveries to the store on the corner  (Kosher Palace) but for the most part, it depends on the time of day and the number of buses on layover.  I raised the issue of the Avenue U turnaround when the B/44 SBS was being proposed with the MTA as well as with the store and my observation  is that it seems that everyone there are doing their best to keep the buses moving on time through the intersection.

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4 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Yep I can see that especially the people that lived right over the border Valentine Lane etc.. that goes for the 7,9 and 10 at 262/263rd. I used the 9 often back in the days to the (1) in Highschool and the Pool during summers people used BL service. But these were the days of Tokens and MetroCard Blues. I'm sure that affected patterns and how people rode no transfer double fair. With everything being integrated nowadays you might have a point. Riverdale Av isn't that far from Broadway I used to walk it all the time. 6 blocks maybe. Broadway and Riverdale Ave almost intersect pass the border I could see the use of the BXM2 it's a westside route.  Broadway south of 242 refects the issue with post El's in the City . Jerome, Westchester Ave, Broadway (Bklyn) White Plains,  Don't know if banning cars would work.  Maybe a Bailey Ave reroute?

This guy lived north of 262nd though.  I've walked from Broadway to Riverdale Avenue via 259th and it's a b* since it's all uphill and the streets can meander depending on where you go up at.  In any event, you can't widen Broadway at all and it's really just one lane of traffic each way, so at best you could give signal priority for the Bx9.  Unfortunately Broadway is just too narrow south of 242nd, and I have no idea why that is either because north of it's incredibly wide, so wide that there have been meetings with CB8 about making it safer to cross.  They actually put a light at 246th and Broadway now which never existed before and causes more traffic back-ups and they've narrowed the roadway with islands, so I can see the Bx9 becoming slower too north of 242nd.

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13 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

The B/36 should remain as is as there is no need for the route to be extended to Kings Plaza as the bulk of the ridership is going to the last stop for the B/44 and the B/44 SBS. As far as a market for a B/36 extension, you have to work with the presumption that the ridership will have to come from the Coney Island end of the line as anyone who lives in this area will most likely drive there.if they go there. As far as the loop at Avenue U, there is no parking on Gravesend Neck Road from Nostrand Avenue to East 29th Street on both sides of the street and buses take their layover on either side. As far as the turn into East 29th Street  and then onto Avenue  U, occasionally there are some slight delays due to deliveries to the store on the corner  (Kosher Palace) but for the most part, it depends on the time of day and the number of buses on layover.  I raised the issue of the Avenue U turnaround when the B/44 SBS was being proposed with the MTA as well as with the store and my observation  is that it seems that everyone there are doing their best to keep the buses moving on time through the intersection.

I've been hearing about this extension for the B36 forever to Kings Plaza and I think it's stupid. The B3 already has traffic issues running along Avenue U, and the B36 is already horrible in terms of reliability, so running it with the B3 would just make matters worse.  Additionally, I see no market for such an extension. When in the hell did Kings Plaza become such a destination anyway? I mean I used to go there many years ago when I lived in Midwood via the B9 or the B2, and even then it wasn't that great.  Malls have been on the decline anyway, and that one especially has become really rowdy and ghetto, so I'm not sure who is supposed to schlepping all the way from Coney Island to Kings Plaza.  Besides, Coney Island is going through its own transformation anyway.  That area may finally be improving a bit. I was down there a few weeks ago waiting for the X28 to get back to the City and it has definitely become safer and more ethnically diverse.  The Russians are moving down there now especially closer to the train station, and I don't see them going to Kings Plaza, nor the old-time residents.  It's too far west and south. Going past Coney Island, the people in Sea Gate would just drive if anything, and certainly not to Kings Plaza.

Kings Plaza itself will continue to get people from outside of the immediate area.  Anyone in Mill Basin, Bergen Beach, Marine Park, Midwood, Sheepshead Bay and so on stopped going there years ago because of how rowdy and ghetto its become.  If anything those people now go to Staten Island, New Jersey or Westchester for mall shopping (that includes myself).  That mall would have to become more upscale and have better security before it becomes a destination again (if ever), and even so, as I said before mall shopping is on the decline.  I haven't been to a mall in a few years.  Why should I? I can easily get what I need online.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This guy lived north of 262nd though.  I've walked from Broadway to Riverdale Avenue via 259th and it's a b* since it's all uphill and the streets can meander depending on where you go up at.  In any event, you can't widen Broadway at all and it's really just one lane of traffic each way, so at best you could give signal priority for the Bx9.  Unfortunately Broadway is just too narrow south of 242nd, and I have no idea why that is either because north of it's incredibly wide, so wide that there have been meetings with CB8 about making it safer to cross.  They actually put a light at 246th and Broadway now which never existed before and causes more traffic back-ups and they've narrowed the roadway with islands, so I can see the Bx9 becoming slower too north of 242nd.

Yeah your right about that hill I used to take the 24 up Mosholu whenever possible hated walking to Riverdale Ave for the Bus. Used to walk to Movies and Supermaket via 259th all the time so I understand your pain don't know I could do it now a bit older on this side haha. Yeah I just think having the Park on one side allowed for them to widen much easier the IRT set the tone for the street Grid pretty early on. Used to be a speed way from 251 to 242 on Broadway. 246th? it go's from 242 to 251..did they add a walkway from Horace Mann or something?

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13 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Yeah your right about that hill I used to take the 24 up Mosholu whenever possible hated walking to Riverdale Ave for the Bus. Used to walk to Movies and Supermaket via 259th all the time so I understand your pain don't know I could do it now a bit older on this side haha. Yeah I just think having the Park on one side allowed for them to widen much easier the IRT set the tone for the street Grid pretty early on. Used to be a speed way from 251 to 242 on Broadway. 246th? it go's from 242 to 251..did they add a walkway from Horace Mann or something?

When I say 246th and Broadway, I'm talking about right where the BxM3 bus stop to Manhattan is southbound.  That's considered 246th and Broadway believe it or not (remember there's no street grid west of Broadway in that area) and that's where the new traffic light was added.  In addition to that, they basically made Broadway narrower, which I think is stupid.  The traffic light was actually needed, though I'm sure it should've been placed at 246th and Broadway because very few people cross there, but crossing elsewhere closer to Horace Mann (by Broadway and Manhattan College Parkway), you were putting your life on the line, so they have islands now which do help, but the trade-off is more traffic back-ups and certainly slower Bx9 service, especially for people trying to get to the subway. There's hardly anyone that gets on the bus there, yet it spends more time now idling at that light and trying to navigate through the new congestion that was created.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

When I say 246th and Broadway, I'm talking about right where the BxM3 bus stop to Manhattan is southbound.  That's considered 246th and Broadway believe it or not (remember there's no street grid west of Broadway in that area) and that's where the new traffic light was added.  In addition to that, they basically made Broadway narrower, which I think is stupid.  The traffic light was actually needed, though I'm sure it should've been placed at 246th and Broadway because very few people cross there, but crossing elsewhere closer to Horace Mann, by Broadway and Manhattan College Parkway, you were putting your life on the line, so they have islands now which do help, but the trade-off is more traffic back-ups and certainly slower Bx9 service, especially for people trying to get to the subway. There's hardly anyone that gets on the bus there, yet it spends more time now idling at that light and trying to navigate through the new congestion that was created.

Right! Gotcha I think I know what you're talking about that pathway into the Park. I know there's a stop there. I had a classmate that lived over there 6344 or something like that. 246 ends at Post Road used to play baseball in that parking lot on the side of the building. So a light there? Yeah I agree with you what's the point. SMH.

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