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Union Tpke

Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

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8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'd actually favor SBS just to stop the rampant fare beating, but in terms of speeding up service, I don't see it, particularly along most of Broadway since it runs right under the (1) train. There's just too much congestion and not enough space....

The MTA would have to drastically alter compromise the Bx9 routing for it to have any real shot at an SBS.... Bus routes that are indirect like that & run under el's (which tends to exacerbate the flow of traffic to begin with) on top of it, are virtually a no go.... Too hard a sell; It's bad enough they embellish just how much time the avg. passenger saves per trip on the things (SBS') as it is.....

7 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

...People from Yonkers used to just use the 1or 2 Beeline service just drop off southbound and pickup Northbound did they change the policy?

Nope, nothing's changed.... The BL-1/2/3 are all still closed door in The Bronx...

6 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

The B/36 should remain as is as there is no need for the route to be extended to Kings Plaza as the bulk of the ridership is going to the last stop for the B/44 and the B/44 SBS. As far as a market for a B/36 extension, you have to work with the presumption that the ridership will have to come from the Coney Island end of the line as anyone who lives in this area will most likely drive there.if they go there. As far as the loop at Avenue U, there is no parking on Gravesend Neck Road from Nostrand Avenue to East 29th Street on both sides of the street and buses take their layover on either side. As far as the turn into East 29th Street  and then onto Avenue  U, occasionally there are some slight delays due to deliveries to the store on the corner  (Kosher Palace) but for the most part, it depends on the time of day and the number of buses on layover.  I raised the issue of the Avenue U turnaround when the B/44 SBS was being proposed with the MTA as well as with the store and my observation  is that it seems that everyone there are doing their best to keep the buses moving on time through the intersection.

The demand is & has been for service up towards the Junction for the longest, not eastward towards the mall.... The general group of riders I'm inclined to believe that would greatly benefit from such an extension would really only be schoolkids..... Either way, the B36 has enough issues as it is, just with it running b/w Coney Island & Sheepshead....

Kings Plaza itself isn't "that" destination like it was (at least) 2 decades ago.... When that jank a**, rodent & disease infested movie theater finally closed down, so went Kings Plaza's popularity throughout this borough.... The new kid on the block (so to speak) was that  movie theater out in ENY (Linden Blvd) that so many couldn't shut up about.... Renovating Kings Plaza didn't do much of anything to bring back those that frequented the place often back in the day (of which did or didn't reside in that general pocket of the borough).... The place is a shell of its former self....

Way I see it, nothing further should be extended down there...

Edited by B35 via Church

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14 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

I read another article that said the start date would be on/around November 12th. Sounds like an accurate date.

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The MTA would have to drastically alter compromise the Bx9 routing for it to have any real shot at an SBS.... Bus routes that are indirect like that & run under el's (which tends to exacerbate the flow of traffic to begin with) on top of it, are virtually a no go.... Too hard a sell; It's bad enough they embellish just how much time the avg. passenger saves per trip on the things (SBS') as it is.....

Nope, nothing's changed.... The BL-1/2/3 are all still closed door in The Bronx...

The demand is & has been for service up towards the Junction for the longest, not eastward towards the mall.... The general group of riders I'm inclined to believe that would greatly benefit from such an extension would really only be schoolkids..... Either way, the B36 has enough issues as it is, just with it running b/w Coney Island & Sheepshead....

Kings Plaza itself isn't "that" destination like it was (at least) 2 decades ago.... When that jank a**, rodent & disease infested movie theater finally closed down, so went Kings Plaza's popularity throughout this borough.... The new kid on the block (so to speak) was that  movie theater out in ENY (Linden Blvd) that so many couldn't shut up about.... Renovating Kings Plaza didn't do much of anything to bring back those that frequented the place often back in the day (of which did or didn't reside in that general pocket of the borough).... The place is a shell of its former self....

Way I see it, nothing further should be extended down there...

I just got a BxM2 bus a little while ago, and was observing how long boarding took for one M79SBS bus. Part of the problem is these elderly/disabled people that really should be using Access-A-Ride. There was a lady with a huge hunch in her back that could not look up to see what was going on. Then there was a wheelchair that had to be unloaded, and she's trying to get on as the guy is trying to get off.  It would also help that the drivers know the damn route. I took the M79SBS earlier and the driver tried to pretend that there was too much traffic to turn onto 79th there at Columbus. Meanwhile she turns on a one-way street with cars double-parked.

Everyone on the bus didn't understand the logic in that at all. 79th is a two-way street that is MUCH wider. It basically cost us an extra 10 minutes by the time she got around parked cars and construction and then came and turned onto 79th from Amsterdam. 

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8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Part of the problem is these elderly/disabled people that really should be using Access-A-Ride.

They should, but the (MTA) has made it such a royal pain in the ass to apply for, much less use. Their eligibility requirements are very strict (this has become a more recent issue), and there are times where AAR riders are waiting 30 minutes or more past their scheduled pickup times (AAR has had reliability issues for what feels like its' entire existence.)

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The demand is & has been for service up towards the Junction for the longest, not eastward towards the mall.... The general group of riders I'm inclined to believe that would greatly benefit from such an extension would really only be schoolkids..... Either way, the B36 has enough issues as it is, just with it running b/w Coney Island & Sheepshead....

Kings Plaza itself isn't "that" destination like it was (at least) 2 decades ago.... When that jank a**, rodent & disease infested movie theater finally closed down, so went Kings Plaza's popularity throughout this borough.... The new kid on the block (so to speak) was that  movie theater out in ENY (Linden Blvd) that so many couldn't shut up about.... Renovating Kings Plaza didn't do much of anything to bring back those that frequented the place often back in the day (of which did or didn't reside in that general pocket of the borough).... The place is a shell of its former self....

Way I see it, nothing further should be extended down there...

B36 to Flatbush and Nostrand with connection to the (2)(5) train???  I'm not to inclined with that idea. Everyone's been saying for years to have the B36 run to the Junction. If that were the case give the B36 over to Flatbush since that's the best deadhead and not to Ulmer Park. But the way the B36 is made up it would belong to Ulmer Park  

The real question poses, where do you terminate at?  The Junction is already crowded.  

There are too many reliability issues with MOST Ulmer Park bus lines including the B36. 

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I just got a BxM2 bus a little while ago, and was observing how long boarding took for one M79SBS bus. Part of the problem is these elderly/disabled people that really should be using Access-A-Ride. There was a lady with a huge hunch in her back that could not look up to see what was going on. Then there was a wheelchair that had to be unloaded, and she's trying to get on as the guy is trying to get off.  It would also help that the drivers know the damn route. I took the M79SBS earlier and the driver tried to pretend that there was too much traffic to turn onto 79th there at Columbus. Meanwhile she turns on a one-way street with cars double-parked.

Everyone on the bus didn't understand the logic in that at all. 79th is a two-way street that is MUCH wider. It basically cost us an extra 10 minutes by the time she got around parked cars and construction and then came and turned onto 79th from Amsterdam. 

While I don't do much of any east-west traveling through Central Park, you're describing one of the main reasons I don't do much riding b/w the UWS/UES.... I don't fault the elderly for utilizing city buses, but at the same time, I'm not going to subject myself to taking buses where I know dwell times per stop are well above average (or, "normal")....

With what my father had to put up w/ Access a Ride (before he eventually passed), I'm sorry, but I'm no advocate of that shit.... We on these forums may talk about an increase of a lack of professionalism from city b/o's, but compared to a lot of Access a Ride drivers, city b/o's are saints! Instead of being a reliable, reputable service for the elderly, to me it resembles a hustle..... Drivers often blame passengers for not showing up (to cover their asses) - when THEY are the ones not showing up.... And I'm going to say it - some of them drive just as reckless as dollar vans do.... Pure safety risk if you ask me.... No thanks.

 

1 minute ago, Future ENY OP said:

B36 to Flatbush and Nostrand with connection to the (2)(5) train???  I'm not to inclined with that idea. Everyone's been saying for years to have the B36 run to the Junction. If that were the case give the B36 over to Flatbush since that's the best deadhead and not to Ulmer Park. But the way the B36 is made up it would belong to Ulmer Park  

The real question poses, where do you terminate at?  The Junction is already crowded.  

There are too many reliability issues with MOST Ulmer Park bus lines including the B36. 

Nah, negative...

While that demand does exist on the B36 (much more so than any demand for Kings Plaza, which was the only point I was making w/ that & nothing further), I didn't say I'd run buses to the Junction....

In that same quoted post of mine, I said that the B36 has enough issues as it is while operating along its current route... It wouldn't make any sense for me to then suggest running B36's to the Junction.... Both the B36 & the B44 don't need to be running along Nostrand b/w the Junction & Av. Z; it's overkill.... Those are the reasons I'd leave the B36 right where it is.... I don't have a problem w/ riders xferring b/w B36's & B44's....

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2 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Nah, negative...

While that demand does exist on the B36 (much more so than any demand for Kings Plaza, which was the only point I was making w/ that & nothing further), I didn't say I'd run buses to the Junction....

In that same quoted post of mine, I said that the B36 has enough issues as it is while operating along its current route... It wouldn't make any sense for me to then suggest running B36's to the Junction.... Both the B36 & the B44 don't need to be running along Nostrand b/w the Junction & Av. Z; it's overkill.... Those are the reasons I'd leave the B36 right where it is.... I don't have a problem w/ riders xferring b/w B36's & B44's....

Yes. In full agreement with not having the B36 running alongside B44SBS/LCL. However, I'm still trying to understand where is the market to even extend the portion of the B36. 

Back to topic: Glad there's progress being made with the Q52/53SBS. If that November 12 date is  valid this gives DOT more than a month to put up most of the signage and contractors putting up the fareboxes along Crossbay and Woodhaven Boulevards up to Woodside. I think we could have our first REAL Bus Rapid Transit. In Queens. 

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1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

....However, I'm still trying to understand where is the market to even extend the portion of the B36.

Outside of schoolkid usage (not that it should be ignored per se, but regardless), I'd say it emanates at Coney Island av... Pay close attention to those that aren't all disembarking for the Brighton.

You also have those that's been doing the B44-B36 thing to get to CIH....

3 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

So after the B82 what other line are being looked at for SBS? Q25/65?

I should pull a Yuki (FamousNYLover on this forum) & list every single route.... that doesn't have SBS :lol:

Anyway, Along w/ the Q25, & the M14, there's that Bushwick-Downtown one & that Northern Blvd - Manhattan one....

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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I should pull a Yuki (FamousNYLover on this forum) & list every single route.... that doesn't have SBS :lol:

Anyway, Along w/ the Q25, & the M14, there's that Bushwick-Downtown one & that Northern Blvd - Manhattan one....

I believe the B41 is also under the phase 2. If not phase 3 of the SBS bus program along with the forementioned lines you indicated. All between 2018 & 2019. 

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The Jamaica/Hillside corridor is also one that's been kicking around, and technically Merrick hasn't been dropped from the master plan.

 

I'd love to see a Union Tpke SBS use the former bus-subway loading area in the Kew Gardens Interchange but that would never happen.

Edited by bobtehpanda

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2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The Jamaica/Hillside corridor is also one that's been kicking around, and technically Merrick hasn't been dropped from the master plan

So your saying dopey devisionzero could force it in on merrick blvd?

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On September 27, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Union Tpke said:

Staff Summary is typical MTA lies with tons of omissions. For one thing, the only alternative listed is to do nothing. For one thing, bus lanes on the service roads instead of the main roadway which would impact traffic less negatively is omitted. This option was preferred by the communities although many Boards voted against SBS in its entirety, another omission. 

Also, I doubt if the costs include DOT costs so we have no idea what this boondoggle is actually costing. According to the staff summary, the first years costs are about $12 million. The only mention of the capital project is that service roads will be constructed in Rego Park. So that alone will raise the cost from $12 million to the estimated $300 to $400 million? It's about time they start telling us the truth. 

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7 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

So your saying dopey devisionzero could force it in on merrick blvd?

The official plan it was never dropped from was created by Bloomberg.

I know you have a hard-on for pushing your angle, but that doesn't mean other people are trying to do it.

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As far as the B/36 going to the junction, that is another one of those ideas that should be put to bed. When the B/44 SBS was being proposed, it was bought up at the hearings about the problems between the junction and Kings Highway. What has been done about it since that time?  Nothing of course and in fact, I think that it has gotten worse especially north of Avenue L. The B/44 SBS and local handles the loads very well and will do better if there was some traffic enforcement being done on a regular basis but I feel that that will never happen for political reasons.

I think that problems of Access a Ride have made many of the elderly  ride the local buses instead  of waiting for a service that some may consider undependable, they opt for the local bus and this creates another problem in terms of time. Some routes have a large number of riders who board with either walkers or wheelchairs which results in longer boarding times at stops further delaying the bus. If we add the shopping carts to the mix, then it becomes highly probable that the route will not run on time and this despite the fact that almost all the buses being low floor with the exception of the remaining RTS'. If they would move to the center of the bus, it would help a lot as there is more room there for their walkers but for some reason they are afraid to do so.

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On 9/29/2017 at 12:31 PM, Interested Rider said:

...I think that problems of Access a Ride have made many of the elderly  ride the local buses instead  of waiting for a service that some may consider undependable, they opt for the local bus and this creates another problem in terms of time. Some routes have a large number of riders who board with either walkers or wheelchairs which results in longer boarding times at stops further delaying the bus. If we add the shopping carts to the mix, then it becomes highly probable that the route will not run on time and this despite the fact that almost all the buses being low floor with the exception of the remaining RTS'.

If they would move to the center of the bus, it would help a lot as there is more room there for their walkers but for some reason they are afraid to do so.

I don't fault the elderly one bit for wanting to utilize the fixed route services in the network; for whatever their reasons!

With that said, the only people that should be moving to(wards) the center of the bus are able-bodied people...
I would argue that those that embark w/ open shopping carts be refused access if the bus is to the point where standees are starting to form, let alone already packed to the brim...

Having the elderly & those with walkers or wheelchairs move to the center of the bus would only exacerbate dwell times & increase the probability of some bus not running on time.... So, such a suggestion would loom counterproductive... The real problem is everyone else being as close to the front door - for not much more of a reason than to quickly exit the bus out of sheer impatience....

Don't know if you've ever been on a bus where someone with a walker or a cane is attempting to exit the bus through the front whilst having been seated in the back of the bus, but it's highly annoying... It even pisses me off when I see someone far younger sitting in those seats in the front (practically designated for the elderly) when this is all ongoing...... So the way I see it, if there is any reluctancy (or being afraid, as you put it), it is with those that are up there in age opting to exit via the back doors.... Much more so than with any seniors I've seen (not) wanting to move to the middle or back of the bus anyway.... Been on too many B12's & B35's to have experienced this.....

I'll leave this thread for now with a direct quote I never really forgot..... "I don't want to sit in those seats. That's for the OLD people"
(the word "old" was stressed... yes, this was a woman &  yes, she was quite old)

Edited by B35 via Church
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On 9/29/2017 at 12:31 PM, Interested Rider said:

I think that problems of Access a Ride have made many of the elderly  ride the local buses instead  of waiting for a service that some may consider undependable, they opt for the local bus and this creates another problem in terms of time. Some routes have a large number of riders who board with either walkers or wheelchairs which results in longer boarding times at stops further delaying the bus. If we add the shopping carts to the mix, then it becomes highly probable that the route will not run on time and this despite the fact that almost all the buses being low floor with the exception of the remaining RTS'. If they would move to the center of the bus, it would help a lot as there is more room there for their walkers but for some reason they are afraid to do so.

This is one reason why I prefer the artic buses.  Those new buses are just too damn narrow and there is really nowhere to stand.  It drives me nuts because no matter where you stand, you are in the way. On the artics though you have that spot in the middle where people can stand, and that's where I go, plus there's more aisle room since there's no seats there, so you don't have people constantly banging into you. The boarding time is another reason why the (MTA) needs to expedite the low floor buses because the boarding times on some lines is just ridiculous.  One thing that definitely needs to happen is more bus lanes.  I don't know when they started this but Madison Avenue now has two bus lanes and God does it make traveling up Madison SO much faster.  The cars stay in the far left lanes and the bus lanes are wide open for the most part. I now opt for that over the subway because if you catch a bus, you don't have to backtrack to reach the subway and I feel like I have so much more energy when I reach my destination since I don't have to climb up several flights of stairs and walk for 10 - 20 minutes, plus the wait for the train. They need to do that along 5th and other arteries.  5th has one bus lane that I know of, but I don't see why it can't get another one.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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48 minutes ago, Vtrain said:

Has there been any talk about the Q46 getting SBS anytime soon.

Not in phase 2 or phase 3 of the SBS program. Only other Queens corridor that's being focused on is Jamaica/Hilliside/Floral Park. 

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I should have clarified as to what I mean by the center of the bus. What I was referring to is a reference to the wider aisle space  where the seats are facing the front of the bus. I do not like to sit in the first seats in the front and even though I can sit there, I prefer the parallel seats or the back where there is usually some room (Yes! I too feel the same way as the "old" person as long I can walk to the center or the back, I will not sit in the front )or exit through the front. There are exceptions and it is usually when there is a delay in service so there are more riders on that particular bus. Last Monday was one of those days and the bus had  almost no seats when I boarded (I am three stops from the end) so I sat in the assigned seats. It got worse as the shopping carts  and the walkers came on board at the next two stops. I offered a person with a walker a seat but the person decided to further to the center. What drove me up a wall was when a young lady boarded the bus with a baby attached to her chest and when I tried to get an immovable object out of the way (a person, no less), I had to push it after asking for it to move to move for the lady to be given my seat. After I gave her my seat  as I was getting off the next stop, I had to push my way out the front  of the bus even though I asked these "people to let me and the others get off the bus". If I just happened to be in the front of the bus and there is a large number of people boarding, I step off the bus and get back on after the exiting passengers have left the bus. Maybe I and many others who write on this forum believe in and show courtesy when entering and exiting a bus as that is how we were raised by our parents properly I  even hold the back door for those exiting the bus if I am leaving the bus. The problem .is that when we ride the bus, we run into these fools who don't care and will test our patience with them.

I know about the ones .with the walkers and the big shopping carts that are in the center and always want to go out the front door as I see them all   the time  as the B/36 has more than its share. Under my breath, I am asking the same question as to why? and honestly I have not been able to come up with an answer even though I know that they have heard the announcement to do so hundreds of times.  The problem we have is too many people who are under the mistaken impression that rules don't apply to them even though it is in their best interest to follow them. We will never be able to change these people and no matter how many rules are announced or broadcast on buses these fools will never follow them.

 

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9 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

IMO the SBS buses should really be all bench seating like the trains, except in the raised back sections.

Indeed I agree with that call. Increases flow I remember riding fishbowls configured like that in the 80's. So it can be done.

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