Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Cait Sith]

1 minute ago, Union Tpke said:

It should have bus lanes though. You can't even say it is fake BRT without any bus lanes. 

Select Bus Service, with or without bus lanes, is a poor attempt at BRT as a whole. Out of the many routes that already have it, there's a small, small few that benefit from it the most, even if it wasn't implemented the right way.

Bus lanes wouldn't really be helpful on the Q10, especially when you look at areas like Liberty Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, 101st Avenue, Rockaway Blvd. There's a lot of turning traffic in those areas in particular and the blvd is already narrow enough.

I honestly do not see the need for SBS on the Q10. They've already removed stops from the limited a while back(before, it used to stop at 111th, Sutter and Linden, just to name a few stops). It's pretty fast for what it is, even with the dwell times.

The B15 on the other hand, I honestly think that line should be split somewhere.

[RailRunRob]

10 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Select Bus Service, with or without bus lanes, is a poor attempt at BRT as a whole. Out of the many routes that already have it, there's a small, small few that benefit from it the most, even if it wasn't implemented the right way.

Bus lanes wouldn't really be helpful on the Q10, especially when you look at areas like Liberty Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, 101st Avenue, Rockaway Blvd. There's a lot of turning traffic in those areas in particular and the blvd is already narrow enough.

I honestly do not see the need for SBS on the Q10. They've already removed stops from the limited a while back(before, it used to stop at 111th, Sutter and Linden, just to name a few stops). It's pretty fast for what it is, even with the dwell times.

The B15 on the other hand, I honestly think that line should be split somewhere.

This might be reaching but just throwing this out there. Could the B15 be cut back to Eastern Parkway Utica area? For the link with the (3)(4) and maybe reroute the B14 or B17 to Bedstuy? Or maybe even the SBS from Utica to JFK and the Local B15 from Bedstuy to the Postal facility? Just wondering on your idea's for the split.

[B35 via Church]

31 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

....The B15 on the other hand, I honestly think that line should be split somewhere.

I don't think the B15 needs to be split into separate routes, I think its operating pattern on the "ends" of the route should be shifted.... By that I mean, instead of all trips running from Woodhull to terminate at either (JFK or Spring Creek), all trips should run from JFK to terminate at either ([St. John's or Utica], or Woodhull).... There's way more demand from the JFK end of the route than there is from the Bed Stuy end of the route....

17 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

This might be reaching but just throwing this out there. Could the B15 be cut back to Eastern Parkway Utica area? For the link with the (3)(4) and maybe reroute the B14 or B17 to Bedstuy? Or maybe even the SBS from Utica to JFK and the Local B15 from Bedstuy to the Postal facility? Just wondering on your idea's for the split.

AEMoreira suggested something similar to that a while back...

I can't agree w/ running B15's to Eastern Pkwy/Utica period, but on top of it, to have the B14 or B17 run elsewhere? Nah...

Riders from off the B17 need that connection to the moreso than anything (B14 riders do too, but more of the B14 route is more proximate to the than the B17 is).... Tell Canarsie-ans that you plan on taking away their connection to the (3)(4) & ya might just could be met by an angry mob with molotov cocktails & pitchforks at bay... It doesn't help that there's no direct/feasible connection b/w the & the (L)... Basically, you don't want those problems.... Lol....

As for what I think about a B15 split, see reply above....

 

[Interested Rider]

i hate to say it but it is all about the money and the public be damned. if the pot of money that the Federal Government was offering to cities for services such as SBS did not exist, i wonder what the MTA would have done to improve service. Based on past history, most likely there would have been more "limited" routes without paying the fare outside the bus. Let's face it as many streets are too narrow and Lefferts Boulevard is no exception as well as the side  streets that the Q/10 operates. This is common throughout the city and is one of the reasons that buses that operate on these streets are always delayed but as long as federal money is available for SBS, the MTA will implement it even if other less costly alternatives do work.

Let me ask one question of my fellow posters; How long is too long for a bus route? If a route takes one hour to go from terminal to terminal is that too long? Or is one and half hours too long for a one way trip? The M/5 to South Ferry, was a prime example of a route being far too long and the posters on this forum stated this from when it started until it was cut back recently. The B/82 is too long and the SBS designation will not help the route nor will help the B/15.  The B/82 has something in common with the B/15 (formerly the B/10)? Both of these routes were created through mergers (B/50 and B/5), (New Lots trolley and Sumner/Sackett Trolley lines which were replaced by bus service) and the end result was what we have now along with the problems that came with the mergers. Both of these routes are prime examples of what looks good on paper, is in reality, a nightmare. My suggestion for the B/15 is to restore the original B/10 which had terminals at Woodhull Hospital and  Elderts Lane and have a separate  B/15 route from Kennedy Airport to possibly Utica Avenue- Eastern Parkway. As far as the B/82  is concerned, bring back the B/5 and terminate the B/82 at Coney Island Avenue as the B/5 can handle Kings Highway and Bay Parkway. 

One last comment about the bench sitters that frequent the bus shelters. I see them all the time and what could you say to people who consider the shelter as their private bench. We are fortunate over here as there are always people waiting for the bus so the bus driver has to stop anyway.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 9/26/2017 at 2:34 AM, SubBus said:

 SBS Vending machines are going up in the Rockaways....

I believe those are for a SBS candidate, the Q52/53. They're also doing road rehabilitation, widening sidewalks and paint jobs near the Woodhaven Blvd station on the .

 

[B35 via Church]

29 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

Let me ask one question of my fellow posters; How long is too long for a bus route? If a route takes one hour to go from terminal to terminal is that too long? Or is one and half hours too long for a one way trip? The M/5 to South Ferry, was a prime example of a route being far too long and the posters on this forum stated this from when it started until it was cut back recently. The B/82 is too long and the SBS designation will not help the route nor will help the B/15.  The B/82 has something in common with the B/15 (formerly the B/10)? Both of these routes were created through mergers (B/50 and B/5), (New Lots trolley and Sumner/Sackett Trolley lines which were replaced by bus service) and the end result was what we have now along with the problems that came with the mergers. Both of these routes are prime examples of what looks good on paper, is in reality, a nightmare. My suggestion for the B/15 is to restore the original B/10 which had terminals at Woodhull Hospital and  Elderts Lane and have a separate  B/15 route from Kennedy Airport to possibly Utica Avenue- Eastern Parkway. As far as the B/82  is concerned, bring back the B/5 and terminate the B/82 at Coney Island Avenue as the B/5 can handle Kings Highway and Bay Parkway. 

One last comment about the bench sitters that frequent the bus shelters. I see them all the time and what could you say to people who consider the shelter as their private bench. We are fortunate over here as there are always people waiting for the bus so the bus driver has to stop anyway.

- Generally speaking, bus routes with 90+ min. runtimes in NYC is too long.... 1 hour (posted) runtimes is a practiced standard across the board (not just for NYC, but other regions as well)

- As for those that use bus shelters as their private shelter, there's no real repercussion that can be threatened and/or carried out on them.... It's no different than sitting on a park bench when some park is open.... I would suggest more citywide public benches (separate from those at bus stops), but that would open up a whole 'nother can of worms... You could even argue that it would be a safety hazard (they're talking about wanting to remove the benches inside the subway (platform level) & replacing them with benches (if you can even call em that) that people can lean on instead - as a means of thwarting the homeless sleeping on em)...

Sure, there are always people waiting for the bus, but at the same time, every stop doesn't always have multiple people waiting at them (not even close to being as such) - which is a huge difference....

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't think the B15 needs to be split into separate routes, I think its operating pattern on the "ends" of the route should be shifted.... By that I mean, instead of all trips running from Woodhull to terminate at either (JFK or Spring Creek), all trips should run from JFK to terminate at either ([St. John's or Utica], or Woodhull).... There's way more demand from the JFK end of the route than there is from the Bed Stuy end of the route....

AEMoreira suggested something similar to that a while back...

I can't agree w/ running B15's to Eastern Pkwy/Utica period, but on top of it, to have the B14 or B17 run elsewhere? Nah...

Riders from off the B17 need that connection to the moreso than anything (B14 riders do too, but more of the B14 route is more proximate to the than the B17 is).... Tell Canarsie-ans that you plan on taking away their connection to the (3)(4) & ya might just could be met by an angry mob with molotov cocktails & pitchforks at bay... It doesn't help that there's no direct/feasible connection b/w the & the (L)... Basically, you don't want those problems.... Lol....

As for what I think about a B15 split, see reply above....

 

Point's taken with the B14/17 there are crowds out there for both routes been awhile since I've passed that way on Utica. I Definitely don't want those problems.. lol.. Saint John's could work with the loop around with the 45/65. Didn't think about that guess I was thinking about the Subway connection.

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

This might be reaching but just throwing this out there. Could the B15 be cut back to Eastern Parkway Utica area? For the link with the (3)(4) and maybe reroute the B14 or B17 to Bedstuy? Or maybe even the SBS from Utica to JFK and the Local B15 from Bedstuy to the Postal facility? Just wondering on your idea's for the split.

I don't really have any ideas pertaining to the B15 since my knowledge of it mostly stems from New Lots to JFK, but the way the line is managed needs to change, and I think B35's idea is one of the better ones I've heard.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 10/22/2017 at 3:57 PM, B35 via Church said:

It doesn't help that there's no direct/feasible connection b/w the & the (L)... Basically, you don't want those problems.... Lol....

As for what I think about a B15 split, see reply above....

 

I've always wondered why that isn't the case. Can't a pedestrian bridge or layover similar to the 62nd Street station be made, but for Livonia Avenue and Junius Street ? The tracks come so close there could be a staircase or even an elevator connecting the two.

 

The 62nd Street complex is one of the dozens of stations slated for [♿] access , alongside the 77th St and Astoria Blvd station.

[bobtehpanda]

On 10/22/2017 at 1:54 PM, B35 via Church said:

- As for those that use bus shelters as their private shelter, there's no real repercussion that can be threatened and/or carried out on them.... It's no different than sitting on a park bench when some park is open.... I would suggest more citywide public benches (separate from those at bus stops), but that would open up a whole 'nother can of worms... You could even argue that it would be a safety hazard (they're talking about wanting to remove the benches inside the subway (platform level) & replacing them with benches (if you can even call em that) that people can lean on instead - as a means of thwarting the homeless sleeping on em)...

Agreed. People sleeping on the benches and whatnot is a symptom of a problem (namely, our poor handling of the homeless situation), not an actual solvable problem. When you make benches uncomfortable to use for those people, you also make them uncomfortable to use for regular people.

At least they're not wood anymore? I never understood why we would use such a germ- and bedbug- friendly material.

[Interested Rider]

I just mentioned Utica Avenue - Eastern Parkway as a possible terminal for the B/15 as a point of discussion. The issue here is how do you improve the service without coming to the conclusion that the B/15 should be divided into two routes which I think that there is agreement. The question becomes what will be the terminals of the two routes? Where are the riders from the airport off the bus and the local riders take over which can help determine where the routes should be split with a possible small extension to a major transit center which will improve the service. 

i believe that the route along with some other routes are too long and while it is a standard in many other cities ( Baltimore for example) have it, it does not help us in New York City. This is why sometimes that five years down the line or less depending upon the amount of delays, the route change has to looked at to see if it is working or does it have to be tweaked to improve the service. This is what has to be done with the B/15 and why I think the B/82 select bus will be a failure.

[Future ENY OP]

16 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

I just mentioned Utica Avenue - Eastern Parkway as a possible terminal for the B/15 as a point of discussion. The issue here is how do you improve the service without coming to the conclusion that the B/15 should be divided into two routes which I think that there is agreement. The question becomes what will be the terminals of the two routes? Where are the riders from the airport off the bus and the local riders take over which can help determine where the routes should be split with a possible small extension to a major transit center which will improve the service. 

i believe that the route along with some other routes are too long and while it is a standard in many other cities ( Baltimore for example) have it, it does not help us in New York City. This is why sometimes that five years down the line or less depending upon the amount of delays, the route change has to looked at to see if it is working or does it have to be tweaked to improve the service. This is what has to be done with the B/15 and why I think the B/82 select bus will be a failure.

Okay. I'm having a serious problem with the B15 ending at Eastern Parkway/Utica Avenue. First off, with the amount of congestion in that area. Why choose Eastern Parkway and Utica of all places?  If you want a decent terminal I would choose Rutland Road/Sutter Avenue vs Eastern Parkway. 

Its been discussed that the B15 definitely needs to be split up. Honestly, to its former B10 and have that go from Rutland Road-Sutter Avenue to WoodHull and have the southern part of the route from Rutland Road to Spring Creek/JFK and have alternating B10's travel to Spring Creek to supplement the current service. 

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

How common is it on SBS routes for riders to crowd in the bus through one of the doors to the point said door can't close when there is room to board the bus through the other doors? When I'm on the bus it occurs on far too many occasions and it annoys me when 20-30 dwells become 50-60 second dwells on buses that are not fully loaded. 

[GojiMet86]

Definitely happens on the M60, and I am pretty sure it happens on the other ones. I  have observed many times that when people in the door way hear the "Step away from the door" message, they just move an inch. You're going to have to move a lot more than that, or if not, someone has to get off.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

Does anyone know the specific date the Q52/Q53 sbs will start running, it must be soon. I saw some of the new XD90's I think on the 53. I also saw some at the Far Rockaway yard when I was riding on the A which must be for the 52.

While other posts here about this question exist, im pretty sure the dates aren't exact.

Edited October 26, 2017 by NoHacksJustKhaks

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 10/25/2017 at 9:19 PM, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

How common is it on SBS routes for riders to crowd in the bus through one of the doors to the point said door can't close when there is room to board the bus through the other doors? When I'm on the bus it occurs on far too many occasions and it annoys me when 20-30 dwells become 50-60 second dwells on buses that are not fully loaded. 

It happens all of the time. Usually the front door is used the least for boarding and exiting partially because the drivers tend to pull into the stop and then all the way up, leaving the last two back doors to take the brunt of the passengers, but it seems like a lot of people ignore the middle door and go for the back door to get off, but getting on, the like the middle and some will go to the front door since the bus has likely been knelt.  

[Around the Horn]

On 10/26/2017 at 5:11 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Does anyone know the specific date the Q52/Q53 sbs will start running, it must be soon. I saw some of the new XD90's I think on the 53. I also saw some at the Far Rockaway yard when I was riding on the A which must be for the 52.

While other posts here about this question exist, im pretty sure the dates aren't exact.

November 12th

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

The new GTFS feed for the Q53 SBS is available. Frequency has been cut across the board with the introduction of artics. 

There are about 2 runs cut every hour during the AM and PM rush, middays and Saturdays go from 10 min headways to about 12. 

[limitednyc]

25 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

The new GTFS feed for the Q53 SBS is available. Frequency has been cut across the board with the introduction of artics. 

There are about 2 runs cut every hour during the AM and PM rush, middays and Saturdays go from 10 min headways to about 12. 

what is gtfs, is there a link?

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

29 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

The new GTFS feed for the Q53 SBS is available. Frequency has been cut across the board with the introduction of artics. 

There are about 2 runs cut every hour during the AM and PM rush, middays and Saturdays go from 10 min headways to about 12. 

That is why the MTA likes articulated buses my friend.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

what is gtfs, is there a link?

GTFS is how agencies provide transit data to providers like Google Maps. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Transit_Feed_Specification

MTA data can be found here. It requires a bit of manipulation. 

1 hour ago, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

That is why the MTA likes articulated buses my friend.

Let's see how service will hold up with the new schedule, especially with how buses bunch now. 

 

On another note, there was an XD60 on the Q52 today

Edited October 31, 2017 by RestrictOnTheHanger

[limitednyc]

28 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

GTFS is how agencies provide transit data to providers like Google Maps. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Transit_Feed_Specification

MTA data can be found here. It requires a bit of manipulation. 

Let's see how service will hold up with the new schedule, especially with how buses bunch now. 

 

On another note, there was an XD60 on the Q52 today

cant find mta bus

[IAlam]

11 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

GTFS is how agencies provide transit data to providers like Google Maps. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Transit_Feed_Specification

MTA data can be found here. It requires a bit of manipulation. 

Let's see how service will hold up with the new schedule, especially with how buses bunch now. 

 

On another note, there was an XD60 on the Q52 today

That's probably from JFK so that operators can gain experience. 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

11 hours ago, limitednyc said:

cant find mta bus

It's called NYC Bus Company on the page

[MysteriousBtrain]

DOT is s replacing the old MTA bus signs on the Q52/53 and replacing them with lollipop signs with the new SBS logos. Literally list replaced the Rockaway bound stop at Myrtle Av just now.