Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You see how it takes them to change or put in bus stops....

Why are lane markings replaced after three years of being worn out? Even after I complained about Shore Blvd, it took them nine months. I was on the BQE this weekend and the lane markings near Northern Blvd are completely worn out. It is downright dangerous even during the day. If you try to use the lines between the concrete as lane markings, you can easily be misled because sometimes they are smack dab in the middle of the lane. It's so easy to stray especially where the road width changes. 

And it never used to be that way with bus stops. When I headed Planning in 1981, when they posted the opening date of the new escalator on Brighton Beach Avenue (which incidentally Anthony Weiner requested) five days before it opened, I requested the bus stop be moved from Brighton 7 St to Coney Island Avenue. They did it in time for the opening! 

Shows it is possible for them to do things promptly if they want to. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

Why are lane markings replaced after three years of being worn out? Even after I complained about Shore Blvd, it took them nine months. I was on the BQE this weekend and the lane markings near Northern Blvd are completely worn out. It is downright dangerous even during the day. If you try to use the lines between the concrete as lane markings, you can easily be misled because sometimes they are smack dab in the middle of the lane. It's so easy to stray especially where the road width changes. 

And it never used to be that way with bus stops. When I headed Planning in 1981, when they posted the opening date of the new escalator on Brighton Beach Avenue (which incidentally Anthony Weiner requested) five days before it opened, I requested the bus stop be moved from Brighton 7 St to Coney Island Avenue. They did it in time for the opening! 

Shows it is possible for them to do things promptly if they want to. 

I've actually filed complaints to have bus stops replaced in my neighborhood, and they've been good about it, but their attention with everything bus related has primarily been SBS service.  Everything except the payment machines. I always say a Hail Mary to myself when I stick my Metrocard into the slot for fear of the machine stealing money off of my card or it getting stuck in there. So far I've been quite lucky.  I've "only" lost $6.50 that I can recall. At 86th and Amsterdam, I went to use a machine, and it deducted $2.75 which I didn't know at the time but  it didn't issue a receipt, so I stick my pay-per-ride into the machine next to it and this time I get one.  Low and behold, I go to get the BxM1 at 86th and 3rd after a stop off and instead of charging me $3.75 for the difference, it charged me TWO transfers @ $3.75, which meant that it had charged me $2.75 twice at the SBS machine. I was pretty annoyed to say the least.  

Speaking of those machines, I'd say the line with the worst SBS machines has to be the M15.  Sometimes I've gone two stops in a row where there was a problem, then you have to hustle to get a ticket once you find a stop with working machines and then run back onto the bus or be stuck waiting for the next one.  Worst of all is when you have bags or things with you that you don't feel like stepping off of the bus with them.    

[BrooklynBus]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I've actually filed complaints to have bus stops replaced in my neighborhood, and they've been good about it, but their attention with everything bus related has primarily been SBS service.  Everything except the payment machines. I always say a Hail Mary to myself when I stick my Metrocard into the slot for fear of the machine stealing money off of my card or it getting stuck in there. So far I've been quite lucky.  I've "only" lost $6.50 that I can recall. At 86th and Amsterdam, I went to use a machine, and it deducted $2.75 which I didn't know at the time but  it didn't issue a receipt, so I stick my pay-per-ride into the machine next to it and this time I get one.  Low and behold, I go to get the BxM1 at 86th and 3rd after a stop off and instead of charging me $3.75 for the difference, it charged me TWO transfers @ $3.75, which meant that it had charged me $2.75 twice at the SBS machine. I was pretty annoyed to say the least.  

Speaking of those machines, I'd say the line with the worst SBS machines has to be the M15.  Sometimes I've gone two stops in a row where there was a problem, then you have to hustle to get a ticket once you find a stop with working machines and then run back onto the bus or be stuck waiting for the next one.  Worst of all is when you have bags or things with you that you don't feel like stepping off of the bus with them.    

They changed their policy after numerous complaints. If all machines at a stop are out of order, you are not required to get off and pay. You are supposed to get a receipt after you get off. They say the Eagle Team knows which machines are not working and won't give you a summons if you tell them which machine it is. If they don't have the machine on their list, you should be able to fight the summons. I do not know if it can be done by mail, but that should be allowed. You should also be able to get your money back when double charged but it probably isn't worth the hassle. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBus said:

They changed their policy after numerous complaints. If all machines at a stop are out of order, you are not required to get off and pay. You are supposed to get a receipt after you get off. They say the Eagle Team knows which machines are not working and won't give you a summons if you tell them which machine it is. If they don't have the machine on their list, you should be able to fight the summons. I do not know if it can be done by mail, but that should be allowed. You should also be able to get your money back when double charged but it probably isn't worth the hassle. 

Interesting. I saw them out and about last Saturday as I was on the BxM2.  They love waiting at Central Park West and West 81st to catch all of the people that get off there for the subway on the M79.  On the M86 it's usually 86th and Central Park West, 86th and Amsterdam, or 86th and Madison. I rarely see them at other stops.

[Lawrence St]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Interesting. I saw them out and about last Saturday as I was on the BxM2.  They love waiting at Central Park West and West 81st to catch all of the people that get off there for the subway on the M79.  On the M86 it's usually 86th and Central Park West, 86th and Amsterdam, or 86th and Madison. I rarely see them at other stops.

I've been on the Q52/Q53 SBS for the past 2 months or so from 74th St to the Rockaway's and I've seen an eagle team only once. I think I have the SBS charm lol, I've never been checked on the M79, M86 or M23 SBS for that matter even though I ride them almost every day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I've been on the Q52/Q53 SBS for the past 2 months or so from 74th St to the Rockaway's and I've seen an eagle team only once. I think I have the SBS charm lol, I've never been checked on the M79, M86 or M23 SBS for that matter even though I ride them almost every day.

It's so rare to see them that a few months ago on a Saturday or a Sunday, I was shocked to see them at Central Park West and 86th going towards Yorkville. They generally check during rush hour, which is annoying because it holds up the entire bus.

[Lil 57]

One question, On avarage how long do the egale team take to inspect POP on the bus?

[MysteriousBtrain]

10 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

One question, On avarage how long do the egale team take to inspect POP on the bus?

A bus with no standees takes at most 2 minutes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

One question, On avarage how long do the egale team take to inspect POP on the bus?

 

11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

A bus with no standees takes at most 2 minutes.

I've been on the M79SBS and it's taken much longer than two minutes because people have a reading problem.  You still have many tourists and others that simply don't read or don't speak English or people that are simply clueless (still) about paying before boarding, so then the Eagle Team comes on asking for the tickets, numerous people have earbuds on and completely zone out so even though they see the Eagle Team, it's like they don't know the routine, so you have to wait for them to take the earbuds off, come back into reality and then wait for them to give a million excuses about why they don't have a ticket, then wait for that whole discussion to end and for them to get off. Sometimes the driver will just sit there and the Eagle Team will "educate" a rider, make them get a ticket and then let them back on, so you could be sitting there for 5-10 minutes in some cases, which I find annoying since this usually happens during rush hour. I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to bunching either because I've been on buses where I've seen at least 4 - 5 people taken off of the bus for not having a ticket.

[B35 via Church]

Each & every single time there's been the instance where all the TVM's were OOS at a given SBS "station", I've taken the local...... Didn't know there was a policy & even if it is as such, I'm not going through with all that shit fighting this & that, and/or contacting this & that, and/or explaining anything to any of those Eagle Team personnel the situation I happened to be faced with.... I'm not going through with any of that nonsense - I'll just lose the 'x' amount of mins. by taking the local & calling it a day.....

As for average amount of time it takes Eagle Team to check everyone's ticket, it's easily more than 120 seconds tops (even if no standees).... Buses gotta have significantly less than a seated load & everybody has to be prepared/compliant (with their ticket out) for the whole process to be done in that amt. of time.... Almost robotic-like.... Think about it, the average SBS bus isn't that lowly utilized (again, even if there's nobody standing)....... So I'd say on avg., you're sitting at a "station" for at least 5 mins. & it definitely leads to bunched buses, as the MTA runs SBS' buses in abundance anyway.....

Edited May 15, 2018 by B35 via Church

[Around the Horn]

The Eagle Team is usually good with broken machines. The one time there was a broken machine at my stop, I barely said "The machine at 42nd" before the inspector cut me off and said they knew about it and to just get a receipt when I got off.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

28 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Each & every single time there's been the instance where all the TVM's were OOS at a given SBS "station", I've taken the local...... Didn't know there was a policy & even if it is as such, I'm not going through with all that shit fighting this & that, and/or contacting this & that, and/or explaining anything to any of those Eagle Team personnel the situation I happened to be faced with.... I'm not going through with any of that nonsense - I'll just lose the 'x' amount of mins. by taking the local & calling it a day.....

As for average amount of time it takes Eagle Team to check everyone's ticket, it's easily more than 120 seconds tops (even if no standees).... Buses gotta have significantly less than a seated load & everybody has to be prepared/compliant (with their ticket out) for the whole process to be done in that amt. of time.... Almost robotic-like.... Think about it, the average SBS bus isn't that lowly utilized (again, even if there's nobody standing)....... So I'd say on avg., you're sitting at a "station" for at least 5 mins. & it definitely leads to bunched buses, as the MTA runs SBS' buses in abundance anyway.....

That could be one reason why they check at the stops that they do because those generally will have the bulk of the riders getting off, thus leaving just a seated load, but yeah even in those cases, it still takes at least five minutes because they'll check all of the people getting off of the bus, then check all of the people remaining, etc.

[Express Bus Operator]

9 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That could be one reason why they check at the stops that they do because those generally will have the bulk of the riders getting off, thus leaving just a seated load, but yeah even in those cases, it still takes at least five minutes because they'll check all of the people getting off of the bus, then check all of the people remaining, etc.

5 minutes?.... usually less than 3 or 2

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, DueceDrives said:

5 minutes?.... usually less than 3 or 2

You do SBS outside of Manhattan that's why.  The M79 (and M86 for that matter) have lots of tourists that ride that have no clue about how the process works, which can slow things down dramatically. You still have people that will get on in the back, then proceed to go all the way to the front of the bus to show the driver their receipt which as you know isn't necessary, but plenty of people still do it on those two routes.

[BrooklynBus]

10 minutes ago, DueceDrives said:

5 minutes?.... usually less than 3 or 2

 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

I've been on the M79SBS and it's taken much longer than two minutes because people have a reading problem.  You still have many tourists and others that simply don't read or don't speak English or people that are simply clueless (still) about paying before boarding, so then the Eagle Team comes on asking for the tickets, numerous people have earbuds on and completely zone out so even though they see the Eagle Team, it's like they don't know the routine, so you have to wait for them to take the earbuds off, come back into reality and then wait for them to give a million excuses about why they don't have a ticket, then wait for that whole discussion to end and for them to get off. Sometimes the driver will just sit there and the Eagle Team will "educate" a rider, make them get a ticket and then let them back on, so you could be sitting there for 5-10 minutes in some cases, which I find annoying since this usually happens during rush hour. I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to bunching either because I've been on buses where I've seen at least 4 - 5 people taken off of the bus for not having a ticket.

Five to ten minutes? Just ridiculous. There goes your entire SBS time savings and maybe then some. They really need to evaluate this entire program before converting additional routes to SBS. 

[Around the Horn]

What they need to do is have the Eagle Team inspect tickets while the bus is motion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

 

Five to ten minutes? Just ridiculous. There goes your entire SBS time savings and maybe then some. They really need to evaluate this entire program before converting additional routes to SBS. 

Yeah well you can't fault the Eagle Team. They come on very organized.  Unfortunately when you have passengers that aren't educated on how things work, that causes delays.  Most of the time the passengers don't just get off. If they're seated, they remain seated and basically protest as they don't understand why they're being pulled off.  I've witnessed a few cases where the passenger will say well I'm from such and such place and they didn't know the procedure and then there's a whole conversation about why they need to get off, then once they're finally off of the bus, what I've been seeing is the Eagle Team essentially warning people who actually have Metrocards about what they need to do, taking them to a machine and showing them the process. I mean I get it.  Perhaps people complained about the Eagle Team being too harsh, but it eats up too much time. These people should know the program and it's up to the  to continue to educate people about how payment works.  

Just now, Around the Horn said:

What they need to do is have the Eagle Team inspect tickets while the bus is motion.

Good luck with that.  I've never seen that happen. The bus is always essentially parked and remains parked in the bus stop until the Eagle Team signals that they're done and that takes whatever it takes.  I think in one instance I was so irritated that I just got off a stop early to go where I was going and walked the long block. It was Columbus and 86th, going West, again during rush hour and we sat while they came around. They were not nearly as nice as some of the ones I've seen on the M79.  

Edited May 15, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lil 57]

32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What they need to do is have the Eagle Team inspect tickets while the bus is motion.

Makes sense, like a conductor on a train. They could also sell tickets to people that didn't get their ticket at a bus stop on the bus, but with a penalty fee.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lil 57 said:

Makes sense, like a conductor on a train. They could also sell tickets to people that didn't get their ticket at a bus stop on the bus, but with a penalty fee.

In Italy when we had inspectors check tickets, they'd do so often with the bus in motion and with it being crowded too, and it was only one inspector at that time. With SBS though there's usually a team around four or more on the busier lines. I think outside of Manhattan, usually you'll have two at a stop from what I've experienced.  It all depends on where they're checking. On the Q44 I've always rode usually within Whitestone or from Union Turnpike to Whitestone and I've never been checked.

[Express Bus Operator]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You do SBS outside of Manhattan that's why.  The M79 (and M86 for that matter) have lots of tourists that ride that have no clue about how the process works, which can slow things down dramatically. You still have people that will get on in the back, then proceed to go all the way to the front of the bus to show the driver their receipt which as you know isn't necessary, but plenty of people still do it on those two routes.

Lol @ passenger load from the back and walk up to the front to show the operator the receipt... Yes you’re absolutely right about that. It happens to me almost everyday its to the point I nod my head and reply back “very good, hold onto it tight” 

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

What they need to do is have the Eagle Team inspect tickets while the bus is motion.

It would work if they were to ride the route the entire way.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, DueceDrives said:

Lol @ passenger load from the back and walk up to the front to show the operator the receipt... Yes you’re absolutely right about that. It happens to me almost everyday its to the point I nod my head and reply back “very good, hold onto it tight” 

I had a guy do it on a crowded M86 and I wanted to punch him because he wasn't holding on and he was banging into everybody and not saying excuse me just to show the driver that stupid receipt.  I gave him a pass because he didn't speak much English and clearly wasn't from here, but I definitely said something. He looked confused as if he didn't understand why I was upset about his rude behavior.  I told him something like the word is excuse me or something to the effect, and even though he wanted to respond he couldn't in English so I dropped it.  On a good day I've had no problems shoving a person or worse that was downright rude.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

19 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

It would work if they were to ride the route the entire way.

Why would they have to ride the route the entire way? The bus driver could just not open the doors again until they are finished. 

[Cait Sith]

10 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Why would they have to ride the route the entire way? The bus driver could just not open the doors again until they are finished. 

Taking a page out of Seattle's playbook with their RapidRide service(which is structured pretty much the same as Select Bus Service except with the addition of a tap card system), some trips, they have the fare inspectors ride along a portion of the route and check at each stop to make sure people have paid in some fashion, then they have some that ride the entire way to check and see if people are paying. I feel that its a far better tactic than having to check at only one stop. 

The issue is that Eagle Teams are largely nonexistent for the most part, I can't remember the last time I've seen any in Manhattan, or in Queens(except for the debut of the Q52/Q53 SBS).

Edited May 15, 2018 by Cait Sith

[checkmatechamp13]

On 5/14/2018 at 2:52 PM, BrooklynBus said:

Sounds like they could use more than one route over the Whitestone.

It depends. Is there overnight demand for Co-Op City-Flushing service? (Serious question) I would say coverage-wise, it's worth it since the Bx5 doesn't even run overnight, and transfer-wise, the Q44 doesn't connect with any Co-Op City routes, so it makes sense in that regard. But the existing overcrowded buses are on the Q44, so additional service on the Q50 wouldn't do any good for those traveling south of Flushing or (especially) north of the Bruckner Interchange.

On 5/14/2018 at 10:27 AM, BrooklynBus said:

Yes too much high level management that does little other than to delve out assignments to subordinates adding little to the process. Need more middle level managers and supervision. Why aren't the bus managers responsible for a half dozen routes? The few they do have can't possibly watch all the routes. 

And don't forget that although artics carry more passengers they may not be more cost efficient since operators receive premium pay as of the last contract and the buses use more fuel. Whenever they carry less than 60 passengers they are less efficient. Why don't they switch to 40 foot buses overnight instead of running artics nearly empty? I wonder how much money that would save? Reassigning buses to different depots by allowing MTA Buses and NYCT buses in each other's depots would also save money. Why should the B100 come all the way from Spring Creek when it passes directly in front of Flatbush Depot? 

There are many ways to save money without negatively affecting service. 

 

The premium pay is $1/hour on a $34-$36/hour salary. That's a joke. For fuel, a gallon of gas costs like $3, so even if a bus gets 10 mpg, you're still talking about doing a whole B44 trip for $3 worth of gas.