Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Express Bus Operator]

17 minutes ago, Yankees4life said:

I actually board the 44SBS a few times and not one eagle team was present. You would think they would be around in the Junction but nope

Trust.. They be around.. Its a hit and miss, You may be lucky the bus you got on they are not around at the time you're on. The only time I can honestly say they do not board the bus and some of the fare beaters knows is after 8:00pm.  

[Yankees4life]

4 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

Trust.. They be around.. Its a hit and miss, You may be lucky the bus you got on they are not around at the time you're on. The only time I can honestly say they do not board the bus and some of the fare beaters knows is after 8:00pm.  

I don't know. I've only seen them during the day one time back in Nostrand/Clarkson. Must be eating at the Starbucks at Target or something

[paulrivera]

4 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

Trust.. They be around.. Its a hit and miss, You may be lucky the bus you got on they are not around at the time you're on.

Hit and miss indeed. One time I saw them at 5:30 AM on the 12.

I love it when the Eagle teams are out. Not just because it keeps farebeaters in check, but once the B/Os know they're out and about, even the slowest of drivers will haul ass because they don't want to get held up too long by the spot checks.

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Hit and miss indeed. One time I saw them at 5:30 AM on the 12.

I love it when the Eagle teams are out. Not just because it keeps farebeaters in check, but once the B/Os know they're out and about, even the slowest of drivers will haul ass because they don't want to get held up too long by the spot checks.

Just only wish they could spot check all the other lines along with the SBS. 

[IAlam]

I finally spotted them yester on the Q53 but they were too busy writing tickets to even check my bus. Funny enough I went from end to end during rush hour in 1h15min which is probably the best I've ever seen for that line.

[BrooklynBus]

17 hours ago, IAlam said:

I finally spotted them yester on the Q53 but they were too busy writing tickets to even check my bus. Funny enough I went from end to end during rush hour in 1h15min which is probably the best I've ever seen for that line.

So please explain to me how SBS is an improvement. Winter 2014 Limited schedule shows 7:31 AM bus leaving B116 Street and arriving in Woodside at 8:35. Current schedule shows 7:32 AM bus leaving B116 St and arriving at 8:46 AM at Woodside. Where is the promised 25 percent time savings? And what about the time lost by e everyone else? That just doesn't matter to you.

[MysteriousBtrain]

32 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

So please explain to me how SBS is an improvement. Winter 2014 Limited schedule shows 7:31 AM bus leaving B116 Street and arriving in Woodside at 8:35. Current schedule shows 7:32 AM bus leaving B116 St and arriving at 8:46 AM at Woodside. Where is the promised 25 percent time savings? And what about the time lost by e everyone else? That just doesn't matter to you.

It's summer now. You can't really compare the 2014 one with this as it is apples to oranges.

[RailRunRob]

On 6/26/2018 at 8:00 PM, lupojohn said:

M101 badly needs SBS.

Doesn't it parallel the Subway for the most part?

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's summer now. You can't really compare the 2014 one with this as it is apples to oranges.

I drove daily on Woodhaven Blvd for nine years and can tell you that traffic was the heaviest in November and December and the lightest during summer months. So if anything, speeds should be the quickest in the summer. You certainly can make a comparison. 

Its just amazing how SBS supporters will still support SBS no matter what the facts  say. 

Now the schedules supposed to reflect reality. That means in 2014 you should have been able in rush hours to take the Q53 Limited end to end in 104 minutes. DOT promised a 25 percent time savings in rush hour after SBS. That means you should now be able to name the same trip 16 minutes quicker in 88 minutes. 

And you are bragging how you did it in only 115 minutes with SBS. Meanwhile it's taking cars which represent 80 percent of the roads motorized users between 20 and 40 minutes extra to make the same trip. 

Sounds to me like a total failure. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I drove daily on Woodhaven Blvd for nine years and can tell you that traffic was the heaviest in November and December and the lightest during summer months. So if anything, speeds should be the quickest in the summer. You certainly can make a comparison. 

Its just amazing how SBS supporters will still support SBS no matter what the facts  say. 

Now the schedules supposed to reflect reality. That means in 2014 you should have been able in rush hours to take the Q53 Limited end to end in 104 minutes. DOT promised a 25 percent time savings in rush hour after SBS. That means you should now be able to name the same trip 16 minutes quicker in 88 minutes. 

And you are bragging how you did it in only 115 minutes with SBS. Meanwhile it's taking cars which represent 80 percent of the roads motorized users between 20 and 40 minutes extra to make the same trip. 

Sounds to me like a total failure. 

These people are joy riding.  They're not trying to really get anywhere.  Who do you know that takes a bus from end to end regularly?  I can't think of anyone. It's hard for one to criticize when they aren't depending on that bus or train to get them to work.  That's just the reality of it.  

I did this nonsense when I was teen from time to time, where I'd ride with my uncle or whatever, but that was years ago. Now you couldn't pay me to do that. Between work, running errands and running my household, etc., I cherish the free time that I have, and I don't want to spend it stuck on some bus.  

Edited June 29, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

These people are joy riding.  They're not trying to really get anywhere.  Who do you know that takes a bus from end to end regularly?  I can't think of anyone. It's hard for one to criticize when they aren't depending on that bus or train to get them to work.  That's just the reality of it.  

I did this nonsense when I was teen from time to time, where I'd ride with my uncle or whatever, but that was years ago. Now you couldn't pay me to do that. Between work, running errands and running my household, etc., I cherish the free time that I have, and I don't want to spend it stuck on some bus.  

That's one thing I never did. Joyride on a bus. But that really isn't the point. Even if he was joy riding, he made a statement that one hour fifteen minutes was a great rush hour time and how it is a great improvement.

I was just explaining how it is no improvement whatsoever unless you claim that the old schedules could never be met. If so, the question then becomes why would you have unrealistic schedules that could never be met for years on end?

 And why wouldn't you just first fix the schedules first to see if that improves service before undertaking an expensive and time consuming SBS project? 

[RailBus63]

Schedules are a suggestion at best.  To prove whether SBS is an improvement or not, a meaningful data sample of actual trip times before and after is needed. 

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Doesn't it parallel the Subway for the most part?

Once it gets heads north/west from 125th & Lexington, it definitely has a completely different ridership base from the subway. Along 125th Street, it runs perpendicular to the subway lines, and Amsterdam is uphill from both Broadway & St. Nicholas Avenue (at least in West Harlem), so its ridership on that portion is a mixture of people using it for local trips along Amsterdam, combined with people using it to reach the subway connections along 125th.

I think splitting it/restructuring it would do more good than adding SBS, though you can still add SBS to some of the resultant routes.

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

These people are joy riding.  They're not trying to really get anywhere.  Who do you know that takes a bus from end to end regularly?  I can't think of anyone. It's hard for one to criticize when they aren't depending on that bus or train to get them to work.  That's just the reality of it.  

I did this nonsense when I was teen from time to time, where I'd ride with my uncle or whatever, but that was years ago. Now you couldn't pay me to do that. Between work, running errands and running my household, etc., I cherish the free time that I have, and I don't want to spend it stuck on some bus.  

 

People on the B42, B74, Q42, Bx29, etc....  

In all seriousness, a lot of The Bronx crosstown routes have a non-negligible amount of people that need to ride the routes from end to end to get to work, school, etc

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Once it gets heads north/west from 125th & Lexington, it definitely has a completely different ridership base from the subway. Along 125th Street, it runs perpendicular to the subway lines, and Amsterdam is uphill from both Broadway & St. Nicholas Avenue (at least in West Harlem), so its ridership on that portion is a mixture of people using it for local trips along Amsterdam, combined with people using it to reach the subway connections along 125th.

I think splitting it/restructuring it would do more good than adding SBS, though you can still add SBS to some of the resultant routes.

People on the B42, B74, Q42, Bx29, etc....  

In all seriousness, a lot of The Bronx crosstown routes have a non-negligible amount of people that need to ride the routes from end to end to get to work, school, etc

Those are essentially shuttle buses to and from subway stations.  Those are a given. We're talking about extremely long routes.  Most people are not sitting on local buses with trips of 60 - 120 minutes.  Just not happening like that.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[aemoreira81]

9 years ago this week, SBS began on the Bx12, using a dedicated fleet of 35 buses (5734-5768). How time flies.

 

As for the B82 SBS, I expect it for fall. In Spring Creek Towers, the bus lane has been painted, and Flatlands Avenue has had street markings removed along much of it in anticipation for street paving (I expect street marking there and on Kings Highway to begin soon, even though I personally don't believe a bus lane is needed on those streets as it would create a nightmare for other traffic). The last area to get work will likely be Glenwood Road.

[Future ENY OP]

10 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

 

As for the B82 SBS, I expect it for fall. In Spring Creek Towers, the bus lane has been painted, and Flatlands Avenue has had street markings removed along much of it in anticipation for street paving (I expect street marking there and on Kings Highway to begin soon, even though I personally don't believe a bus lane is needed on those streets as it would create a nightmare for other traffic). The last area to get work will likely be Glenwood Road.

Unless the South Brooklyn delegation doesn’t go to the media and local papers in regards to this and the  quietly implement the SBS on the 82 in September. The high 76xx buses are coming in by the bunch. 

We will see. Stay tuned. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

If you got an SBS ticket today and kept it, you could get a additional person in the transit museum for free.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Those are essentially shuttle buses to and from subway stations.  Those are a given. We're talking about extremely long routes.  Most people are not sitting on local buses with trips of 60 - 120 minutes.  Just not happening like that.

True. So wouldn't you say the MTA has been disingenuous by touting bus time savings from the first stop to the last stop for every route when promoting SBS? 

I remember how they were bragging B44 passengers would save 15 minutes.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

True. So wouldn't you say the MTA has been disingenuous by touting bus time savings from the first stop to the last stop for every route when promoting SBS? 

I remember how they were bragging B44 passengers would save 15 minutes.

 

Let's be honest here.  The  gets federal dollars running SBS, which allows them to save serious money.  A few questions regarding this:

1.  When they originally rolled out SBS service, I believe they were given federal dollars for new buses.  Does that expire or does it continue indefinitely?  I'm not really a fan of them swapping out their SBS buses with new ones and putting their old hand-me-downs on the other lines, but this is something that they tout to riders; that they'll be able to ride their latest buses.  In that sense, I do agree with you that they are acting as if SBS service should get better treatment than their other lines.

2.  What other federal $ do they receive by running this service?  Do they get monies for the service itself? 

[IAlam]

11 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

So please explain to me how SBS is an improvement. Winter 2014 Limited schedule shows 7:31 AM bus leaving B116 Street and arriving in Woodside at 8:35. Current schedule shows 7:32 AM bus leaving B116 St and arriving at 8:46 AM at Woodside. Where is the promised 25 percent time savings? And what about the time lost by e everyone else? That just doesn't matter to you.

Scheduled run time and actual are 2 different things. Frankly, I remember doing the same trip before SBS and it almost took 2 hours. Also, 1 trip doesn't say anything about the whole line.

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

These people are joy riding.  They're not trying to really get anywhere.  Who do you know that takes a bus from end to end regularly?  I can't think of anyone. It's hard for one to criticize when they aren't depending on that bus or train to get them to work.  That's just the reality of it.   

 

Yep, I had a lot of time to kill, I mainly use the Q53 only when there are problems with Queens Blvd. 

But there are people who do ride end to end, buses like n20G come to mind when in Flushing, and Q5/85 in Jamaica but those are usually in rare circumstances.

38 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

True. So wouldn't you say the MTA has been disingenuous by touting bus time savings from the first stop to the last stop for every route when promoting SBS? 

I remember how they were bragging B44 passengers would save 15 minutes.

 

while I haven't seen crazy time saving, I've definitely seen short trips have an improvement, on the Q44 there has definitely been an improvement it trip times between the LIE and Main St Sta. Those dwell times during peak hours would sometimes keep a bus at the stop for almost 5 min if there's a handicapped passenger well you'd be better off waiting for the next bus. However nowadays at stops like Main and Kissena, the worst you see is roughly 2 min to board and go. From someone who uses Main St on the daily, I've definitely seen the Q44 save time.

[trainfan22]

In regards to the subthread about riders riding long routes from end to end, that was pretty common on the B8 when it terminated at the VA Hospital, well riding most of the route at least. IDK if people rode from VA to Rockaway Ave, but VA - East Flatbush was pretty common, that's at least an hour and 20 minutes, I lived near Flatbush Ave on the B8 and it took me an hour to get to the VA.

 

 

 

Riders riding the B82 most of its route seems to be common as well, I once got an B82 at the Bay Parkway station and some girls was already on this bus, when I got off in Canarsie they was STILL on the bus...

Edited June 30, 2018 by trainfan22

[BrooklynBus]

23 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Scheduled run time and actual are 2 different things. Frankly, I remember doing the same trip before SBS and it almost took 2 hours. Also, 1 trip doesn't say anything about the whole line.

But that's not the way I think supposed to be. They are supposed to be the same thing. The only times there should be deviations is when there is an unusual occurrence, like a road blockage, fire, parade, accident, unusual traffic,  etc. Or if there is some unusual activity that occurs only one or two days a week. Otherwise, bus running time and and scheduled time should be the same thing. 

But what happens is no time is allotted special circumstances like wheelchairs so one wheelchair passenger automatically puts the bus between 5 and ten minutes behind schedule. Then that snowballs until the bus is completely off schedule. 

For a bus to routinely take twice the allotted schedule is indicative of gross mismanagement. 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Let's be honest here.  The  gets federal dollars running SBS, which allows them to save serious money.  A few questions regarding this:

1.  When they originally rolled out SBS service, I believe they were given federal dollars for new buses.  Does that expire or does it continue indefinitely?  I'm not really a fan of them swapping out their SBS buses with new ones and putting their old hand-me-downs on the other lines, but this is something that they tout to riders; that they'll be able to ride their latest buses.  In that sense, I do agree with you that they are acting as if SBS service should get better treatment than their other lines.

2.  What other federal $ do they receive by running this service?  Do they get monies for the service itself? 

I wish I had the answers to your questions. The MTA has been very secretive about this. I remember trying to find out a cost for the B44 SBS and different sources quoted $15 million, $40 million and $55 million. What was happening was that each number included different things. When DOT was selling it they used the $15 million figure omitting what they were receiving for new buses claiming they would have needed them anyway without SBS. The Feds, on the other hand were including the dollars for the buses. 

I don't think they get monies for the service because every staff summary asked the board for about $3 milllion per year in additional funding to run SBS. If the Feds were paying something to run the service, that should have been reflected in the staff summaries saying the $3 million was the net amount needed after the federal subsidy. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

But that's not the way I think supposed to be. They are supposed to be the same thing. The only times there should be deviations is when there is an unusual occurrence, like a road blockage, fire, parade, accident, unusual traffic,  etc. Or if there is some unusual activity that occurs only one or two days a week. Otherwise, bus running time and and scheduled time should be the same thing. 

But what happens is no time is allotted special circumstances like wheelchairs so one wheelchair passenger automatically puts the bus between 5 and ten minutes behind schedule. Then that snowballs until the bus is completely off schedule. 

For a bus to routinely take twice the allotted schedule is indicative of gross mismanagement. 

I wish I had the answers to your questions. The MTA has been very secretive about this. I remember trying to find out a cost for the B44 SBS and different sources quoted $15 million, $40 million and $55 million. What was happening was that each number included different things. When DOT was selling it they used the $15 million figure omitting what they were receiving for new buses claiming they would have needed them anyway without SBS. The Feds, on the other hand were including the dollars for the buses. 

I don't think they get monies for the service because every staff summary asked the board for about $3 milllion per year in additional funding to run SBS. If the Feds were paying something to run the service, that should have been reflected in the staff summaries saying the $3 million was the net amount needed after the federal subsidy. 

But even if they're only getting federal funding for the buses, that may explain why they're happy to replace them (they aren't paying for them so why not?) and then put the older buses on other lines. I get that feeling that it's highly the case.  

Edited June 30, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RailBus63]

The MTA is not the only source of information regarding Federal funding - there are various websites including FTA and New York state which show what projects are funded, how much, etc.  Sometimes all you get is a project title so it may take some sleuthing to find out what exactly the project funding paid for.  

[BrooklynBus]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But even if they're only getting federal funding for the buses, that may explain why they're happy to replace them (they aren't paying for them so why not?) and then put the older buses on other lines. I get that feeling that it's highly the case.  

Yes. A friend of mine who used to work for MTA Bus once told me the only  reason the MTA even supports SBS is because of the free buses. It is really a DOT project