Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[checkmatechamp13]

What confused me is whether or not, Glenwood is 2-way when SBS is done for the night. I'm not to familiar with that part of Flatlands but the Ralph part looked messy.

 

It's westbound bus-only (not just SBS buses), which means that B82 local buses (and from what it sounds like, B6 buses) will still be able to use that lane even after SBS is done for the night.

 

All we have is what Outerbridge (X22) and Riis Park  (QM16) ? If someone has to move the car in the AM, and the options are spend a) 20-30 minutes looking for parking by the train/bus +commute time,  or b) spend that time in Deegan traffic, they're clearly driving to work).

 

There's also the ETC, SI Mall (Marsh Avenue side), Huguenot, Princes Bay, and Great Kills (plus Dongan Hills & Arthur Kill, but there's no express bus routes directly serving those stations).

 

4. How would you implement congestion pricing in the Bronx and Staten Island (2 places with no standard "CBD nucleus")? 

 

St. George is the hub for Staten Island.

 

4a. To my knowledge, the Gowanus has it both in the morning and evening.  You could use the same HOV lane and perhaps lower the amount of passengers required per vehicle, but having one person per car as I often see on the Deegan is absurd.... I've been contacting Senator Klein's office about it for quite some time, and his office makes up the same BS excuses about how they've talked about that but can't make it happen. I don't buy it.  The Deegan and Cross Bronx both need it desperately.  

 

It's morning-only on the Gowanus. I believe at one time years ago it was in effect in the afternoon, but as of now it's morning-only. 

 

The SIE HOV lane is in both directions, though.

 

3.  Personally I think if a line is turned into a SBS route, there shouldn't be a local version.  That Bx6 does not need a local variant.  It just doesn't.  Eliminate a few stops and have people walk a little further.  That's the other problem with the bus network.  Too many damn stops.  When routes get SBS, the entire line should be restructured to maximize usage of all buses instead of having this mish mosh of empty local buses and packed SBS buses.

 

That might work on the Manhattan crosstowns, but on an outer borough route like the B44 or B46, you'd have to either add a bunch of stops to the SBS to prevent people from having to walk too far, or you'd end up with a situation where seniors and the disabled are nowhere near a bus stop on the route.

 

4a. That might o my knowledge, the Gowanus has it both in the morning and evening.  You could use the same HOV lane and perhaps lower the amount of passengers required per vehicle, but having one person per car as I often see on the Deegan is absurd.... I've been contacting Senator Klein's office about it for quite some time, and his office makes up the same BS excuses about how they've talked about that but can't make it happen. I don't buy it.  The Deegan and Cross Bronx both need it desperately.  

 

[BreeddekalbL]

lol why do i see talk about congestion pricing? there will be no congestion pricing in nyc for the next few generations

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's morning-only on the Gowanus. I believe at one time years ago it was in effect in the afternoon, but as of now it's morning-only.

 

The SIE HOV lane is in both directions, though.

Yeah it was... When did they change that? That's stupid.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Not kind of. It does.  The other option would be to stop accepting cash entirely, but that would cause even more of an uproar.  I mean hell you soon won't be able to pay with cash anymore with the tolls so why not... 

 

So then it's useless in NYC... Not accepting exact fare is laughable because you would have to set up a means of adding to money to a tap and go card in every local community..

 

 

It's westbound bus-only (not just SBS buses), which means that B82 local buses (and from what it sounds like, B6 buses) will still be able to use that lane even after SBS is done for the night.

 

There's also the ETC, SI Mall (Marsh Avenue side), Huguenot, Princes Bay, and Great Kills (plus Dongan Hills & Arthur Kill, but there's no express bus routes directly serving those stations).

 

St. George is the hub for Staten Island.

 

Mm, would it kill them to use Flatlands at night? I forgot about ETC but right outside of SI these things are non-existent. Do people drive to St. George and take the ferry? or is MTA mainly collecting those fares.

[P3F]

(try paying for the SBS with change or half-free student metrocard)

There are SBS ticket machines that accept coins.

[B35 via Church]

So what'll be the next Manhattan crosstown route they'll convert to SBS

[danielhg121]

I believe M79 is converting next. They already got some machines installed at a few stops?

 

 

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[RailRunRob]

Isn't the M14 after the 79?

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

So then it's useless in NYC... Not accepting exact fare is laughable because you would have to set up a means of adding to money to a tap and go card in every local community..

 

The same was said when dollar bills weren't accepted.  People adjust.  That's the other thing about the buses in Florence... No coins... You buy what you need in advance and that's it.  It makes the entire process much faster. How many people hold up buses asking for change or getting their change out at the last minute.  The fact that the only has one coin machine at those SBS stops says enough.  The other thing I find interesting is that you have people that wait even at the SBS stops until the bus is almost in the stop before they get their receipt.  

 

Regarding the whole honor system, I think it works if you have the Eagle Team out in force checking daily.  You check enough and people get the message that they had better pay.  It's actually better here because you have two or three people checking.  In Italy it's usually just one person.

 

See why we don't need coin machines? :

 

http://nypost.com/video/hothead-commuter-loses-his-battle-with-an-mta-machine/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow&sr_share=facebook 

 

lol why do i see talk about congestion pricing? there will be no congestion pricing in nyc for the next few generations

Maybe not officially yet, but there are already measures in place that are indirectly discouraging people from driving.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RailRunRob]

So I guess the question is what is it about the SBS program people don't like the most? The fact that it isn't true BRT? Maybe the fact that politicians put too much on a pedestal? I guess the biggest thing for me even beyond the route and gaps in stops is off board fare payment. That in itself IMO is the biggest plus. Mean if MTA just rolled that out on its own with there Limited routes would you guys feel the same way? Just wondering.

 

 

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Edited May 12, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So I guess the question is what is it about the SBS program people don't like the most? The fact that it isn't true BRT? Maybe the fact that politicians put too much on a pedestal? I guess the biggest thing for me even beyond the route and gaps in stops is off board fare payment. That in itself IMO is the biggest plus. Mean if MTA just rolled that out on its own with there Limited routes would you guys feel the same way? Just wondering.

 

 

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I just don't think it's fast enough, and bus bunching is still a huge problem.  Take the M86 for example.  There are times that you can wait 20 minutes during rush hour for a bus when buses are supposed to be running roughly every 4 - 5 minutes, and then three or four of them will come all bunched up together, with the first one being slammed and the next three having uneven loads.  I've also witnessed weird gaps in service well past the rush that seemed very strange, which means that they haven't quite figured out what issues plague the route at times for such things to happen.  Since it isn't a really long route, those things shouldn't happen as often as they do.  The other issue is that bus lanes are either missing or not enforced.  86th street looks like war zone, especially east of Park Avenue.  I thought there was supposed to be funding for street repaving when this service rolled out?  As a result, getting across the street to even get the bus takes extra care, as you have to pay close attention to avoid craters and extremely uneven pavement. For those reasons, there are times that I avoid taking it and use other options to go from East to West and vice versa.

[RailRunRob]

I just don't think it's fast enough, and bus bunching is still a huge problem.  Take the M86 for example.  There are times that you can wait 20 minutes during rush hour for a bus when buses are supposed to be running roughly every 4 - 5 minutes, and then three or four of them will come all bunched up together, with the first one being slammed and the next three having uneven loads.  I've also witnessed weird gaps in service well past the rush that seemed very strange, which means that they haven't quite figured out what issues plague the route at times for such things to happen.  Since it isn't a really long route, those things shouldn't happen as often as they do.  The other issue is that bus lanes are either missing or not enforced.  86th street looks like war zone, especially east of Park Avenue.  I thought there was supposed to be funding for street repaving when this service rolled out?  As a result, getting across the street to even get the bus takes extra care, as you have to pay close attention to avoid craters and extremely uneven pavement. For those reasons, there are times that I avoid taking it and use other options to go from East to West and vice versa.

Okay so my next question was bunching not an issue on the M86 before SBS? I don't really see the Crosstown in the same vain there SBS in name only what your skipping maybe a stop or so the gain again is payment off board. If they just added off-board payment and didn't call it SBS would you have the same issues?

Edited May 12, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Fresh Pond]

 

 

Mm, would it kill them to use Flatlands at night? I forgot about ETC but right outside of SI these things are non-existent. Do people drive to St. George and take the ferry? or is MTA mainly collecting those fares.

Given the current setup of the WB B6/82 near Rockaway Pkwy, them using Glenwood in both directions would be a huge improvement. That backwards loop routing they take now is ridiculous, and it would stop the confusion at that stop on Flatlands/E. 96 St.

 

My only gripe with this SBS routing is that all the time it saved abandoning the backwards loop routing would all be negated sitting in Rockaway Pkwy traffic

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay so my next question was bunching not an issue on the M86 before SBS? I don't really see the Crosstown in the same vain there SBS in name only what your skipping maybe a stop or so the gain again is payment off board. If they just added off-board payment and didn't call it SBS would you have the same issues?

The M86 was much worse previously because of the amount of dwelling involved at each stop for people to dip their Metrocard.  Most crosstown routes involve people transferring from other bus lines or the subways, which is one reason why Bloomberg wanted to make them free and cut out the whole payment process entirely, but the balked at the idea, saying it would lose revenue.  The M86 also appears to use signal priority (another SBS feature that doesn't appear to be implemented completely), and I say that because the light at Park Avenue always seems to stay green longer, but none of the others do.  

 

I think the M86 has also benefited from the low floor buses with the three doors, which has sped up boarding and de-boarding.  What they need to do though is have bus lanes throughout the entire route because the bus gets stuck in traffic far too often, especially along the Transverse where you can sit for several lights before crossing.  In short, it has improved, but it still could be much better.   It's basically a half-@**ed version of SBS.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RailRunRob]

The M86 was much worse previously because of the amount of dwelling involved at each stop for people to dip their Metrocard.  Most crosstown routes involve people transferring from other bus lines or the subways, which is one reason why Bloomberg wanted to make them free and cut out the whole payment process entirely, but the balked at the idea, saying it would lose revenue.  The M86 also appears to use signal priority (another SBS feature that doesn't appear to be implemented completely), and I say that because the light at Park Avenue always seems to stay green longer, but none of the others do.  

 

I think the M86 has also benefited from the low floor buses with the three doors, which has sped up boarding and de-boarding.  What they need to do though is have bus lanes throughout the entire route because the bus gets stuck in traffic far too often, especially along the Transverse where you can sit for several lights before crossing.  In short, it has improved, but it still could be much better.   It's basically a half-@**ed version of SBS.

But ultimately were going back to our conversation from yesterday with the Bus system being at the mercy of the road grid correct? What can the MTA do about traffic? So SBS is a step up overall? It's basically Pre Pay + Limited stop service.  There are a few routes I feel the service works better than others. BX12, S79 and M60 top of the list IMO but even with those successes depend on the traffic flow of the route all 3 have Interstate's runs on large bandwidth thoroughfare so with that established what do you do to speed things up? You can't really compare to a LAMTA Sliver or MBTA S1or S2 route without dedicated routes or lanes. Do you feel your putting to much on the MTA? SBS isn't true BRT after all.

Edited May 12, 2017 by RailRunRob

[checkmatechamp13]

The same was said when dollar bills weren't accepted.  People adjust.  That's the other thing about the buses in Florence... No coins... You buy what you need in advance and that's it.  It makes the entire process much faster. How many people hold up buses asking for change or getting their change out at the last minute.  The fact that the only has one coin machine at those SBS stops says enough.  The other thing I find interesting is that you have people that wait even at the SBS stops until the bus is almost in the stop before they get their receipt. 

 

If they were planning on taking the local if it came first, then it's understandable why they would wait to get the receipt (the MTA's policy is that you can take the local bus if it comes first, but they haven't done a good job of advertising that).

 

So I guess the question is what is it about the SBS program people don't like the most? The fact that it isn't true BRT? Maybe the fact that politicians put too much on a pedestal? I guess the biggest thing for me even beyond the route and gaps in stops is off board fare payment. That in itself IMO is the biggest plus. Mean if MTA just rolled that out on its own with there Limited routes would you guys feel the same way? Just wondering.

 

The thing with off-board fare payment is that if you miss the bus while fumbling for your ticket, there go your time savings. If there was some way to tap your farecard on the bus (and then let's say the system is disabled if/when fare inspectors come, so you can't wait until the last minute), then I would be more in favor of it. 

 

I also don't understand why SBS would be "overkill"?  The only difference between SBS and LTD service mainly is the off-board payment and quite frankly, in 2017, you should be able to board all buses and pay in advance. How you think it's a good idea to go backwards is beyond me, but then again I'm not surprised at such thinking. 

 

See above.

 

Mm, would it kill them to use Flatlands at night? I forgot about ETC but right outside of SI these things are non-existent. Do people drive to St. George and take the ferry? or is MTA mainly collecting those fares.

 

The thing is that it's easier to just have one routing in place at all hours, so people know where to wait for the bus (unless they plan on not having any westbound stops along Glenwood, which to be fair, I don't see any on that plan). To run nonstop on the local from East 103rd to the station is a bit far (eastbound has an intermediate stop at East 100th Street), but I guess if it stops locals from blocking SBS buses, riders can just take the B60 on Flatlands if they can't walk those few blocks.

 

The vast majority of ferry-bound riders use the local buses or SIR. I think the SI Ferry Riders Committee (or some other group) surveyed people and found that it was 88% or something like that. (Some people live nearby and walk, and some get dropped off or pay $8 to park near there, but most take mass transit).

 

For people going to St. George itself, a lot of the courthouses and other buildings are up on steep hills, so the percentage of people taking transit is probably slightly lower, but is still high overall.

 

My only gripe with this SBS routing is that all the time it saved abandoning the backwards loop routing would all be negated sitting in Rockaway Pkwy traffic

 

Which is no worse than it is now since they have to use it anyway. At least people coming from Starrett City can get to the train quickly (and all riders save those few minutes that they would've had to backtrack on East 96th).

 

If anything, B6 riders benefit even more, since they don't have to loop down to Flatlands, go across to East 96th, backtrack to the , and come back down to Flatlands.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But ultimately were going back to our conversation from yesterday with the Bus system being at the mercy of the road grid correct? What can the MTA do about traffic? So SBS is a step up overall? It's basically Pre Pay + Limited stop service.  There are a few routes I feel the service works better than others. BX12, S79 and M60 top of the list IMO but even with those successes depend on the traffic flow of the route all 3 have Interstate's runs on large bandwidth thoroughfare so with that established what do you do to speed things up? You never give you will compare to LAMTA Sliver or MBTA S1or S2 route without dedicated routes or lanes. Do you feel your putting to much on the MTA? SBS isn't true BRT after all.

SBS is supposed to have dedicated bus lanes so that buses aren't sitting in traffic.  If they don't then that isn't an issue of the being at the "mercy of the road grid", but rather them being passive about not getting on the DOT to do their job.  Their attitude has been "we're actively doing more to speed up bus service".  Well how?  They've championed the very things that some of these SBS lines don't have as being factors in speeding up bus service.  At the very least they could be more outspoken about those things being implemented.  You're giving them way too little credit about how much leverage they have.  When fare evasions spiked, they found a way to address the problem even though they don't have direct control over it.  They communicated effectively with the NYPD and made sure the issue was addressed (at least short-term anyway).  The same should be done with the DOT and it's not.  They've been very passive about bus service in general, trying to excuse themselves from the abysmal performance rates overall by saying "Hey our hands are tied because we can't do much about traffic congestion".  

Edited May 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If they were planning on taking the local if it came first, then it's understandable why they would wait to get the receipt (the MTA's policy is that you can take the local bus if it comes first, but they haven't done a good job of advertising that).

 

 

The thing with off-board fare payment is that if you miss the bus while fumbling for your ticket, there go your time savings. If there was some way to tap your farecard on the bus (and then let's say the system is disabled if/when fare inspectors come, so you can't wait until the last minute), then I would be more in favor of it. 

 

 

See above.

That whole set up is so overblown.  Seriously, I've missed some M86 buses a handful of times because of that and even then in most cases, there's another bus a few minutes away. The only time that it really sucks as if there's a large gap in service. Often times if it isn't rush hour, the driver will wait and let you get your ticket. You can't weigh the service by just one thing.  Looking at the big picture, off-fare payment speeds up service overall substantially.  People like yourself who have their commute timed to the minute can't really assess such a benefit fairly.  I rarely run for a bus because I put on BusTime as I am walking to whatever stop I'm using.  Makes things a lot easier and takes some of the stress out of commuting.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RailRunRob]

SBS is supposed to have dedicated bus lanes so that buses aren't sitting in traffic. If they don't then that isn't an issue of the being at the "mercy of the road grid", but rather them being passive about not getting on the DOT to do their job. Their attitude has been "we're actively doing more to speed up bus service". Well how? They've championed the very things that some of these SBS lines don't have as being factors in speeding up bus service. At the very least they could be more outspoken about those things being implemented. You're giving them way too little credit about how much leverage they have. When fare evasions spiked, they found a way to address the problem even though they don't have direct control over it. They communicated effectively with the NYPD and made sure the issue was addressed (at least short-term anyway). The same should be done with the DOT and it's not. They've been very passive about bus service in general, trying to excuse themselves from the abysmal performance. rates overall by saying "Hey our hands are tied because we can't do much about traffic congestion".

. There's a big difference between this is mine to control and and I'm working with somebody to control. That's what your telling me. The minute you have to communicate with somebody else especially another large entity your effectiveness plummets. Fare Beaters okay yeah easy the MTA can say it's mine and this is what I want do about it let's get it done!! With the traffic enforcement not mine I have to play sheriff to the State and City DOT Energy I can be putting into my own agency.. then wait for responses on their time. Penn station is a perfect example of this. I mean man if you've done any type business this is what you see signing a deal getting an invoice it's universal why i'm kind of surprised you don't see it that way specially saying your in leadership position.

 

 

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Edited May 12, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

. There's a big difference between this is mine to control and and I'm working with somebody to control. That's what your telling me. The minute you have to communicate with somebody else especially another large entity your effectiveness plummets. Fare Beaters okay yeah easy the MTA can say it's mine and this is what I want do about it let's get it done!! With the traffic enforcement not mine I have to play sheriff to the State and City DOT Energy I can be putting into my own agency.. then wait for responses on their time. Penn station is a perfect example of this. I mean man if you've done any type business this is what you see signing a deal getting an invoice it's universal why i'm kind of surprised you don't see it that way specially saying your in leadership position.

 

 

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I've had to work with tons people to get things done for years, which is why I completely understand their position and am being so critical.  Quite frankly I don't see the difference that you're attempting to paint with them and the NYPD vs the DOT.  It's almost as if you're saying that they've actually made an effort to address the issue with the DOT and the DOT is blowing them off.  I don't get that impression at all.  If they had made an actual effort to work with the DOT the way that they did with the NYPD, then I would agree with you. Signal light priority is something else that they've been very passive on.  No excuse for that either.  Even BrooklynBus has noted what I've noted.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

That whole set up is so overblown.  Seriously, I've missed some M86 buses a handful of times because of that and even then in most cases, there's another bus a few minutes away. The only time that it really sucks as if there's a large gap in service. Often times if it isn't rush hour, the driver will wait and let you get your ticket. You can't weigh the service by just one thing.  Looking at the big picture, off-fare payment speeds up service overall substantially.  People like yourself who have their commute timed to the minute can't really assess such a benefit fairly.  I rarely run for a bus because I put on BusTime as I am walking to whatever stop I'm using.  Makes things a lot easier and takes some of the stress out of commuting.

 

Sure, it works fine when you have fairly frequent and reliable service. Missing an SBS bus that runs every 4-5 minutes is no different from missing a frequent subway train because you were fumbling with your MetroCard. But if you're dealing with a less frequent route, it's a different story. (For example, on a frequent crosstown route like the M79, sure. On a crosstown like the M8, M21, or M50, not so fine).

 

The other issue is the way they do inspections. Instead of holding up the bus at the stop, they should do their inspections as the bus is moving, and pull people off at the next stop, so they keep the buses moving.

 

. There's a big difference between this is mine to control and and I'm working with somebody to control. That's what your telling me. The minute you have to communicate with somebody else especially another large entity your effectiveness plummets. Fare Beaters okay yeah easy the MTA can say it's mine and this is what I want do about it let's get it done!! With the traffic enforcement not mine I have to play sheriff to the State and City DOT Energy I can be putting into my own agency.. then wait for responses on their time. Penn station is a perfect example of this. I mean man if you've done any type business this is what you see signing a deal getting an invoice it's universal why i'm kind of surprised you don't see it that way specially saying your in leadership position.

 

The thing is that with bus lanes, those delays have an actual cost. If you can save 10 minutes of runtime on each trip, you might be able to cover a whole route with say, 10 buses (and operators) instead of 12. And bus lanes reduce the variability in runtime as well, so you can reduce the amount of situations where a B/O is stuck in traffic beyond the already-increased runtime, and you have to pay them overtime. And then of course, there's the cost of reduced ridership where that's money that the MTA could be getting from passengers if the service was more reliable. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Sure, it works fine when you have fairly frequent and reliable service. Missing an SBS bus that runs every 4-5 minutes is no different from missing a frequent subway train because you were fumbling with your MetroCard. But if you're dealing with a less frequent route, it's a different story. (For example, on a frequent crosstown route like the M79, sure. On a crosstown like the M8, M21, or M50, not so fine).

 

The other issue is the way they do inspections. Instead of holding up the bus at the stop, they should do their inspections as the bus is moving, and pull people off at the next stop, so they keep the buses moving.

That's why I think a new system is needed anyway where folks can just either pre-pay before boarding and or when they get on with some sort of verification process, but do so without having to necessarily board at the front.  The drivers should no longer have to be involved in the whole fare payment thing.  That's the other thing about the buses elsewhere that I've used. The drivers get to focus on driving and not being information booths for a thousand of other irrelevant questions. With SBS I notice that there is much less interaction with annoying passengers and that's a good thing. 

 

I agree about the inspections.  I think it's absurd that they hold buses up during rush hour no less to check tickets and then use it as a scare tactic. There is no need to have an entire Eagle Team take over the bus and block up all of the doors like that, and then they become aggressive if people don't have their tickets ready in a certain amount of time.  

[bobtehpanda]

I've had to work with tons people to get things done for years, which is why I completely understand their position and am being so critical.  Quite frankly I don't see the difference that you're attempting to paint with them and the NYPD vs the DOT.  It's almost as if you're saying that they've actually made an effort to address the issue with the DOT and the DOT is blowing them off.  I don't get that impression at all.  If they had made an actual effort to work with the DOT the way that they did with the NYPD, then I would agree with you. Signal light priority is something else that they've been very passive on.  No excuse for that either.  Even BrooklynBus has noted what I've noted.

 

I agree. DOT has, in the past, revised redesigns in response to pressure from both grassroots organizations and community boards (I'm not saying they do this all the time, but they have), so for someone to say the MTA, an actual organization with actual funding that owns at least $1T in physical assets and is integral to the city economy, has no clout with DOT, is quite absurd.

That's why I think a new system is needed anyway where folks can just either pre-pay before boarding and or when they get on with some sort of verification process, but do so without having to necessarily board at the front.  The drivers should no longer have to be involved in the whole fare payment thing.  That's the other thing about the buses elsewhere that I've used. The drivers get to focus on driving and not being information booths for a thousand of other irrelevant questions. With SBS I notice that there is much less interaction with annoying passengers and that's a good thing. 

 

I agree about the inspections.  I think it's absurd that they hold buses up during rush hour no less to check tickets and then use it as a scare tactic. There is no need to have an entire Eagle Team take over the bus and block up all of the doors like that, and then they become aggressive if people don't have their tickets ready in a certain amount of time.  

 

Ideally, smartcards are the answer to this, since the readers for them are so small that they can be handheld, and smartcards that exist today can be read through something as thick as a handbag so you don't even need to take em out.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ideally, smartcards are the answer to this, since the readers for them are so small that they can be handheld, and smartcards that exist today can be read through something as thick as a handbag so you don't even need to take em out.

I'm hoping that they come out with something that allows for payment to be made via app too.  I tried out that experiment payment system years ago that they had and it was just ok.  Nothing amazing.  

[RailRunRob]

I've had to work with tons people to get things done for years, which is why I completely understand their position and am being so critical. Quite frankly I don't see the difference that you're attempting to paint with them and the NYPD vs the DOT. It's almost as if you're saying that they've actually made an effort to address the issue with the DOT and the DOT is blowing them off. I don't get that impression at all. If they had made an actual effort to work with the DOT the way that they did with the NYPD, then I would agree with you. Signal light priority is something else that they've been very passive on. No excuse for that either. Even BrooklynBus has noted what I've noted.

I don't know for sure if they've reached or to what degree i'd argue the fact that you don't know as well we don't work for either of these agencies. The picture I'm simply painting is getting two agencies maybe even three or four in this case with the City and State DOTs and NYPD to work together with totally different priorities, structures funding and even motives. You're at a disadvantage to start with that said can you get it done sure!! Hard to get four different agencies to focus on the goal and except accountability. I'm fully aware of Signal priority especially from a technical or the backend standpoint. Okay fair. Who are you saying has the lead for the deploying technology it's all RF and yeah the MTA I can cover the buses The DOT would still need add the street hardware that still requires inter-agency cooperation. Just don't know any government Agency or business to operate in this way especially if it's not a joint incentive to get things done. Be a lot further in everything if this were the case! Again my POV.

 

 

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Edited May 12, 2017 by RailRunRob