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Deucey

How many times they gotta tell you: “DON’T LEAN ON THE DOORS”?

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/nyregion/mta-pulls-subway-cars.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
 

300 New Subway Cars Pulled Over Fears That Doors Would Open

The removal of the cars, which were used on the A, C, J and Z lines, is a setback to efforts to modernize New York’s system.

By Christina Goldbaum

Jan. 8, 2020, 7:24 p.m. ET

An entire fleet of New York City’s newest subway cars was abruptly pulled out of service on Wednesday after two recent episodes raised concerns that doors could open while trains were moving, according to people involved in the transit system who were told about the defects. 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subway, did not provide details about the episodes that led it to sideline the 298 cars, but officials said that no riders had been injured. 

Authority officials also declined to comment on whether the problems would have allowed doors to open while trains were in motion until an investigation is complete. 

The removal of the cars, which were being used on trains on the A, C, J and Z lines, is a significant setback in the authority’s effort to modernize the subway system’s antiquated infrastructure. It is also the largest such equipment removal in recent years. 

The new cars were supposed to replace others that date to President Lyndon B. Johnson’s administration and are some of the oldest train cars in operation in the world. 

The new cars, known as R-179s, were bought as part of a problem-plagued, $600 million contract between the authority and the Canadian manufacturing giant Bombardier that has raised questions about the M.T.A.’s oversight of its vendors. 

Troubling signs emerged when the cars first started to roll after multiple delays. 

Transit workers complained that the R-179’s speedometer was hard to see, that the master controller used to drive the train was uncomfortable and that the space between cars was too narrow for some workers to maneuver in.

A more pressing concern for riders was that the new cars broke down more often than some older ones that had been in service since the 1980s, according to authority data.

“As documented, the M.T.A. has identified repeated issues with Bombardier’s performance and finds this latest development unacceptable,” Andy Byford, the president of the New York City Transit Authority, said in a statement on Wednesday. “We intend to hold the company fully accountable.”

The authority has hired an outside firm to inspect the faulty cars and has replaced them for now with others in its roughly 6,700-car fleet. The move has resulted in trains running less frequently on the J and Z lines, officials said. It was unclear how long the inspections would take. 

“There is nothing more terrifying than the idea of a door flying open when you’re leaning against it,” said Nick Sifuentes, the executive director of Tri-State Transportation Campaign, an advocacy group. “But from a safety perspective, it’s good that this is being flagged now and can be rectified immediately.”

A Bombardier spokeswoman said on Wednesday that the company’s own investigation of the cars, which prompted the authority’s action, showed that the doors had not been properly calibrated by a supplier, Nanjing Kangni Mechanical & Electrical of China.

She declined to elaborate. 

“We are now inspecting all of the R179 cars and, where necessary, making adjustments to ensure the safe and reliable performance of the doors for the entire fleet,” she said. 

Modernizing the subway-car fleet has been a priority since the system fell into crisis in 2017 and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the authority, declared a state of emergency.

The M.T.A.’s contract with Bombardier has been troubled with delays and design flaws since the first R-179s were delivered in 2016. Several cars were pulled from service last January because of software defects.

The extent of the problems was outlined in an audit by Scott M. Stringer, the city comptroller, in December. The audit faulted Bombardier for performance issues and found that the authority had not sufficiently held the company accountable. 

The audit determined that missed deadlines combined with problems in the car’s design had delayed the contract’s completion by three years, costing the authority $35 million to keep old cars in service.

“Bombardier sold us lemons,” Mr. Stringer said in a statement on Wednesday. “Straphangers need the M.T.A. to manage these contracts from the beginning.” 

Because of the delays in delivering the cars, Bombardier agreed to give the authority 18 extra cars at no cost. 

The authority has started to increase pressure on contractors like Bombardier that fail to comply with contract terms, including adopting rules that would disqualify them from doing business with the agency for five years under certain conditions.

Transit advocates have welcomed the M.T.A.’s push to hold contractors more accountable, but many say that those regulations are too harsh.

By automatically disqualifying a contractor, even when a project is delayed or goes over budget for reasons beyond the contractor’s control, the policy could make some companies reluctant to work with the authority.

That could create hurdles for the M.T.A.’s effort to transform the subway because there is a relatively small pool of companies that can meet the vast system’s needs.

It is “a blunt and ineffective tool to hold contractors accountable because it discourages them from bidding on projects in the first place,” said Rachael Fauss, a senior research analyst at Reinvent Albany, a watchdog group. “As the M.T.A. seeks to lower its costs, it needs to revise its regulations to create a fair debarment process that does not limit competition.”

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Well… somehow some things all seem to come from China even if the company’s public face is Canadian.

  • LMAO! 3

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Well… somehow some things all seem to come from China even if the company’s public face is Canadian.

What a crying shame. The (MTA) got sold lemons ha. Hope the Kawasaki contract yields better results for the R-211’s.. 

Edited by Future ENY OP

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25 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

What a crying shame. The (MTA) got sold lemons ha. Hope the Kawasaki contract yields better results for the R-211’s.. 

Hence the stipulations in that contract...

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3 hours ago, CenSin said:

Well… somehow some things all seem to come from China even if the company’s public face is Canadian.

Does make me wonder what the experience will be like in Chicago and LA when CRRC’s cars start replacing the current fleets.

I could end up avoiding both systems like I avoid R46 trains here.

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

Does make me wonder what the experience will be like in Chicago and LA when CRRC’s cars start replacing the current fleets.

I could end up avoiding both systems like I avoid R46 trains here.

Here's hoping those will be better than the R179s (doubly so in relation to BYD's buses).

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4 hours ago, Deucey said:

Does make me wonder what the experience will be like in Chicago and LA when CRRC’s cars start replacing the current fleets.

I could end up avoiding both systems like I avoid R46 trains here.

Kawasaki worked with CRRC in Singapore and some of the cars had to be replaced three years in: https://qz.com/724156/the-chinese-company-making-boston-and-chicagos-new-subway-cars-has-big-problems-in-singapore/

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Posted (edited)
Quote

''The Chinese companies have been aggressively pursuing contracts in the US and other markets outside China, and winning huge deals in part because of low bids.''

Well, you get what you pay for.

Edited by Missabassie
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8 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What a crying shame. The (MTA) got sold lemons ha. Hope the Kawasaki contract yields better results for the R-211’s.. 

If the M9s are indicative of anything, get the lube ready and don't take the SMEEs off the rails.

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49 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

If the M9s are indicative of anything, get the lube ready and don't take the SMEEs off the rails.

Something happened with the M9’s?

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51 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

Something happened with the M9’s?

There's no conspicuous event, but the number of items that come off the line that need to be redone is a signal that there isn't a process that is so robust it will be a simple matter of simply hitting 'print train'. A lot of delays are the result of changes, but not all can be accounted as such.

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It's enough that riders have to be told to stand clear of the closing doors - Now we have to be told to stand clear of closed doors also?!

Anyway, after having been in a (packed) elevator where someone was leaning on the door that ended up becoming ajar, I don't lean on any doors of any kind anymore (nor do I bother getting on packed elevators)... Instead of trying to get first dibs on exiting the train, I now try to get that quick step around the person that's trying to get first dibs on exiting the train.... It's been more effective than I thought it would be....

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Just now, B35 via Church said:

Now we have to be told to stand clear of closed doors also?!

To be fair, there are stickers on the doors saying that. You just never see them because someone’s leaning on the doors.

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16 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

It's enough that riders have to be told to stand clear of the closing doors - Now we have to be told to stand clear of closed doors also?!

Anyway, after having been in a (packed) elevator where someone was leaning on the door that ended up becoming ajar, I don't lean on any doors of any kind anymore (nor do I bother getting on packed elevators)... Instead of trying to get first dibs on exiting the train, I now try to get that quick step around the person that's trying to get first dibs on exiting the train.... It's been more effective than I thought it would be....

 

16 hours ago, Deucey said:

To be fair, there are stickers on the doors saying that. You just never see them because someone’s leaning on the doors.

Those stickers also date from the 70s or 80s, back when the subway was in such bad shape that this was a fairly frequent occurrence.

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1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

Those stickers also date from the 70s or 80s, back when the subway was in such bad shape that this was a fairly frequent occurrence.

I’ve been on R142/A where the doors have moved an inch while I’ve leaned on them.

Oddly, I’ve never seen or been on a R62/A where the door moved.

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I remember a similar incident riding on the last car of an R38 (A) train (this was towards the end of their lives, around 2007-08). We were plodding along on the express run between 168 and 145, probably passing under 155, when one single door slowly drifted about halfway open on the left side of the car. No loss of the indication light, no loss of power, nothing. About 5-10 seconds later it engaged the door motor and closed. Luckily the car was almost empty and no one was even standing up, let alone leaning on the doors.

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This clip isn’t from the subway but it is from a fellow MTA agency, and a more extreme scenario:

The kicker here is everyone was just chillin’. If I were on here I’d be freaking out.

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On 1/9/2020 at 7:45 PM, B35 via Church said:

It's enough that riders have to be told to stand clear of the closing doors - Now we have to be told to stand clear of closed doors also?!

Anyway, after having been in a (packed) elevator where someone was leaning on the door that ended up becoming ajar, I don't lean on any doors of any kind anymore (nor do I bother getting on packed elevators)... Instead of trying to get first dibs on exiting the train, I now try to get that quick step around the person that's trying to get first dibs on exiting the train.... It's been more effective than I thought it would be....

Yes, I can relate.

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17 hours ago, paulrivera said:

This clip isn’t from the subway but it is from a fellow MTA agency, and a more extreme scenario:

The kicker here is everyone was just chillin’. If I were on here I’d be freaking out.

This was about 3 years ago or so, but I was on an LIRR train going to work one morning where this very thing took place (I used to take the [then] 5:33 Ronkonkoma train from Jamaica, so it was still dark out)..... (fine ass) Conductor passively/nonchalantly told us (myself & this other dude bopping away to w/e he was listening to on his headphones) that we couldn't stand in this area of the train..... I was leaning on the door directly opposite of the door that was open (couldn't see much of anything, but I felt all that air blowing at me....) & the other dude was leaning on the door adjacent to the one that was open.... I thought it was a pretty cool experience; never felt any sense of nervousness at all..... My attitude that day basically amounted to a "what else is new, smh"......

I ended up moving to another car, b/c I got tired of this one lady constantly complaining about how cold it was inside the train..... When I got off the train, the same dude on his headphones moved to where I was initially standing.... Lol.....

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On 1/11/2020 at 7:02 PM, B35 via Church said:

This was about 3 years ago or so, but I was on an LIRR train going to work one morning where this very thing took place (I used to take the [then] 5:33 Ronkonkoma train from Jamaica, so it was still dark out)..... (fine ass) Conductor passively/nonchalantly told us (myself & this other dude bopping away to w/e he was listening to on his headphones) that we couldn't stand in this area of the train..... I was leaning on the door directly opposite of the door that was open (couldn't see much of anything, but I felt all that air blowing at me....) & the other dude was leaning on the door adjacent to the one that was open.... I thought it was a pretty cool experience; never felt any sense of nervousness at all..... My attitude that day basically amounted to a "what else is new, smh"......

I ended up moving to another car, b/c I got tired of this one lady constantly complaining about how cold it was inside the train..... When I got off the train, the same dude on his headphones moved to where I was initially standing.... Lol.....

Obviously, most folks here haven’t lived in India where folks ride on the outside of locomotives like barnacle infestations on ship hulls.

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On 1/10/2020 at 3:33 PM, Amtrak706 said:

I remember a similar incident riding on the last car of an R38 (A) train (this was towards the end of their lives, around 2007-08). We were plodding along on the express run between 168 and 145, probably passing under 155, when one single door slowly drifted about halfway open on the left side of the car. No loss of the indication light, no loss of power, nothing. About 5-10 seconds later it engaged the door motor and closed. Luckily the car was almost empty and no one was even standing up, let alone leaning on the doors.

R46s tend to have same problem when in stations with door open. Door gravity slides closed 1.5 inches then door motor reyanks it open, it drifts closed, motor yanks it open again, until door officially closed and light off. Hearing it dift on a rolling SMEE is new to me.

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