April 2020 bus changes: B1 conversion to articulated buses

[Around the Horn]

36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

fixed that for ya....  Jeremiah99 or w/e the hell his name is, can tell you all about that....

After Brooklyn Bus says it first

[Q43 Floral Park]

11 hours ago, paulrivera said:

That Bx3 midday cut is gonna sting because that ridership data isn’t accounting for all the farebeaters and how unreliable the line is as a whole.

Then again, what line actually does?

it's great that they claimed the route needed no adjustments via the redesign, just to announce a cut service on the low where most riders won't read about it.

imo the bx3 unreliability is largely self-inflicted and is used to justify reducing its service. it's easier to say 'service is delayed because of 181 st traffic' nearly every day than to admit its because:

a) they've been randomly ending runs at kingsbridge rd for 5+ years and won't build them into the schedule, make them trackable or have them serve the VA Hospital

b) telling operators to battery run and skip stops instead of putting some type of limited service together

c) won't use any artics to address the crowds (i've seen more artics wind up on the Bx32 tbh)

d) won't put a dispatcher at 238 street to make sure buses don't arrive and leave together.

 

 

 

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

a) they've been randomly ending runs at kingsbridge rd for 5+ years and won't build them into the schedule, make them trackable or have them serve the VA Hospital

Oh but they do serve the VA Hospital. Well, the bus does anyway (you didn't say anything about the buses taking passengers into the hospital.) 

For those who don't know what Q43 is alluding to, on a Bx3 short turn the B/O dumps the passengers around the corner, runs empty into the hospital and lays over, driver uses the restroom inside the hospital, and pops right back out just as empty as it went in and goes back the way it came from.

2 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

d) won't put a dispatcher at 238 street to make sure buses don't arrive and leave together.

The dispatcher monitoring that location is typically in front of a computer screen inside the bus command center in East New York Brooklyn.

That alone should tell a lot of people what they need to know.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

as of today, 01/19/2020, the B2 & B31 (school open & school closed paddles) have 9 runs weekdays. (each)

B49 school open = 43 runs. school closed = 35 runs

B2 saturday/sunday = 4 runs. 

B31 saturdays = 8 runs. B31 sundays = 7 runs. 

B49 Saturday = 28 runs. B49 sunday = 23 runs. 

the point I'm making by highlighting these lines is that if/when the B1 is converted to artics, more than likely, it won't be necessary for the B2 & B31 to go to Ulmer Park with the B49. offhand, i don't know exactly how many runs are currently on the B1, but I'm almost certain that there aren't enough runs on the B1 for UP to take on 61 total runs from FB (43 runs on the B49 plus 18 total runs between the B2 & 31 = 61 total)

regardless, the B1 will experience runs cut & headway adjustment(s) due to artic conversion, so it'd be reasonable to speculate that the B1 will go entirely to Flatbush, without splitting it with JG. i personally don't like the idea of UP running the 49 at all, letalone pull ins/pull outs from KCC or Avenue U/Ocean Avenue, but what can you do?

as far as JG is concerned, i truly do not see that as a viable option. JG isn't parting ways with the B4, B8 or B68 anytime soon to accommodate any version of an articulated B1... i could very well be incorrect, however, the only thing left to do is wait & see. 

[Cait Sith]

9 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

as of today, 01/19/2020, the B2 & B31 (school open & school closed paddles) have 9 runs weekdays. (each)

B49 school open = 43 runs. school closed = 35 runs

B2 saturday/sunday = 4 runs. 

B31 saturdays = 8 runs. B31 sundays = 7 runs. 

B49 Saturday = 28 runs. B49 sunday = 23 runs. 

the point I'm making by highlighting these lines is that if/when the B1 is converted to artics, more than likely, it won't be necessary for the B2 & B31 to go to Ulmer Park with the B49. offhand, i don't know exactly how many runs are currently on the B1, but I'm almost certain that there aren't enough runs on the B1 for UP to take on 61 total runs from FB (43 runs on the B49 plus 18 total runs between the B2 & 31 = 61 total)

regardless, the B1 will experience runs cut & headway adjustment(s) due to artic conversion, so it'd be reasonable to speculate that the B1 will go entirely to Flatbush, without splitting it with JG. i personally don't like the idea of UP running the 49 at all, letalone pull ins/pull outs from KCC or Avenue U/Ocean Avenue, but what can you do?

as far as JG is concerned, i truly do not see that as a viable option. JG isn't parting ways with the B4, B8 or B68 anytime soon to accommodate any version of an articulated B1... i could very well be incorrect, however, the only thing left to do is wait & see. 

I believe the B1 School Open runs is somewhere around 45 runs, school closed runs around 32-33.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Cait Sith

[Lawrence St]

I saw a Q21 towards Elmhurst in the Rockaways last week around 3:30 PM, I thought the Q21 only ran to Howard Beach?

[P3F]

24 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I saw a Q21 towards Elmhurst in the Rockaways last week around 3:30 PM, I thought the Q21 only ran to Howard Beach?

Some school trips still go to the Rockaways.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

4 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I believe the B1 School Open runs is somewhere around 45 runs, school closed runs around 32-33.

thank you for that. as we all know, those runs will be "adjusted"/cut/"modified" due to artic conversion.

also to be noted: even if/when the B49 goes to UP, it's my belief that Flatbush will still retain the school trippers on the 49, as they did when the 47 went to Grand Avenue. just a reminder: pretty much any school trip done by a Flatbush Depot run is being performed by a B44 local (school open) paddle... in exception of the 44 & 46 sbs's. 

 

3 hours ago, P3F said:

Some school trips still go to the Rockaways.

if I'm not mistaken, there are 2 schools in/around Beach channel drive (one jhs which the name escapes me) that have Q21 school trippers (i believe there are 2) begin in the rockaways (the Q22 has school trips from there as well) i believe the q21 school trips skip the howard beach loop, run straight on cross bay & turn on 157 to serve lindenwood, if I remember correctly. feel free to correct me if you have knowledge of this. 

[B35 via Church]

This is something over the years I've wanted to compile for myself, but never got around to it..... Maybe some of you wondered about this very thing; not sure if this is somehow opening up pandora's box, but how many (or better yet, which) routes in the city even have school tripper(s) ?

[NBTA]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

This is something over the years I've wanted to compile for myself, but never got around to it..... Maybe some of you wondered about this very thing; not sure if this is somehow opening up pandora's box, but how many (or better yet, which) routes in the city even have school tripper(s) ?

I for sure know these routes have school trippers:

Bx1, Bx9, Bx10, Bx11, Bx12 Local, Bx16, Bx17, Bx20 (Basically a school tripper route), Bx26, Bx31, Bx39.

There's obviously more, but off my head, those are the lines I've seen school trippers on the most in the Bronx. 

[Future ENY OP]

5 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I believe the B1 School Open runs is somewhere around 45 runs, school closed runs around 32-33.

What are the short turns for the 1?  CIH? 13th Ave? Avenue U? 

26 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

thank you for that. as we all know, those runs will be "adjusted"/cut/"modified" due to artic conversion.

also to be noted: even if/when the B49 goes to UP, it's my belief that Flatbush will still retain the school trippers on the 49, as they did when the 47 went to Grand Avenue. just a reminder: pretty much any school trip done by a Flatbush Depot run is being performed by a B44 local (school open) paddle... in exception of the 44 & 46 sbs's. 

 

I know it is too early for this. However, the consensus is that the 49 could be out of FB and heading to Ulmer. This would be the first route for Ulmer heading outside Southern Brooklyn and heading towards Central Brooklyn for 1 and second, I would like to see how those pull-ins and pull outs factor at KCC.  

To @EastFlatbushLarry are there any interlines with the 49? I don’t think there is, but do you off hand 100%?  

Truthfully, I’d like to see a split FB/JG so that the 49 is not a loss to FB. But let’s see the outcome when official info comes out soon. 

[WestFarms36]

1 hour ago, NBTA said:

I for sure know these routes have school trippers:

Bx1, Bx9, Bx10, Bx11, Bx12 Local, Bx16, Bx17, Bx20 (Basically a school tripper route), Bx26, Bx31, Bx39.

There's obviously more, but off my head, those are the lines I've seen school trippers on the most in the Bronx. 

Bx36 also has school trippers. One of them begins at West Farms Square and goes to Soundview. Run 4 used to do that specific one on the Bx36 during the Fall Pick, there's also a couple of more along the route.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

if I'm not mistaken, there are 2 schools in/around Beach channel drive (one jhs which the name escapes me) that have Q21 school trippers (i believe there are 2) begin in the rockaways (the Q22 has school trips from there as well) i believe the q21 school trips skip the howard beach loop, run straight on cross bay & turn on 157 to serve lindenwood, if I remember correctly. feel free to correct me if you have knowledge of this. 

There's a time interval where 2-3 Q21 buses depart within minutes of each other into mainland Queens around 2:55 PM. There's another tripper scheduled to depart around 3:45 PM.  Despite what the MTA schedules and the GTFS data says, these buses go on Beach Channel Drive to the bridge, then basically go non-stop to Howard Beach and Lindenwood, then making all stops to Elmhurst. They turn into Q11s at Elmhurst. These used to be Q52 trippers from the same location. 

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What are the short turns for the 1?  CIH? 13th Ave? Avenue U?

All over the place... I think Gleason has some B1 trippers that do the full route but most are from Ocean Parkway or Brighton Beach station to KCC

[Future ENY OP]

8 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

All over the place... I think Gleason has some B1 trippers that do the full route but most are from Ocean Parkway or Brighton Beach station to KCC

Copy @Around the Horn   
I’ve noticed more Gleason than Flatbush buses on the 1. Especially towards the Bay Ridge portion during AM rush during my past experiences 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Future ENY OP

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is something over the years I've wanted to compile for myself, but never got around to it..... Maybe some of you wondered about this very thing; not sure if this is somehow opening up pandora's box, but how many (or better yet, which) routes in the city even have school tripper(s) ?

On the weekday portion of the schedule (usually at the bottom of the second direction, before the Saturday schedule is shown), you'll see a note that says "Supplemental service is provided on school days between X:XX and X:XX". Those are the school trippers.

Off the top of my head, the only Staten Island local route that doesn't have any trippers is the S40/90. (The S42/52 count as one route in the MTA's eyes, and I know the S42 has trippers to/from I.S.61 at Castleton & Brighton, but I'm not sure if the S52 has any). 

[paulrivera]

5 hours ago, NBTA said:

I for sure know these routes have school trippers:

Bx1, Bx9, Bx10, Bx11, Bx12 Local, Bx16, Bx17, Bx20 (Basically a school tripper route), Bx26, Bx31, Bx39.

There's obviously more, but off my head, those are the lines I've seen school trippers on the most in the Bronx. 

The Bx23 also has a couple of trippers.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

41 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

On the weekday portion of the schedule (usually at the bottom of the second direction, before the Saturday schedule is shown), you'll see a note that says "Supplemental service is provided on school days between X:XX and X:XX". Those are the school trippers.

Off the top of my head, the only Staten Island local route that doesn't have any trippers is the S40/90. (The S42/52 count as one route in the MTA's eyes, and I know the S42 has trippers to/from I.S.61 at Castleton & Brighton, but I'm not sure if the S52 has any). 

For some, you wouldn't know from the schedule. Some of the MTA BC routes don't use the note (like the Q38). You wouldn't know unless you looked at the guide-a-ride schedules (which are now no longer a thing). 

BTW, there are some school trippers listed on the bus schedules that no longer exist (Q16- apparently the one tripper they had was discontinued years ago, Q58).

Edited January 20, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is something over the years I've wanted to compile for myself, but never got around to it..... Maybe some of you wondered about this very thing; not sure if this is somehow opening up pandora's box, but how many (or better yet, which) routes in the city even have school tripper(s) ?

I thought I replied to this, but I don't know what happen to it:

Unfortunately, some of the bus schedules can be misleading, and have trippers listed that were discontinued years ago. Also, some of the MTA Bus company routes have school trippers but do not have the supplemental service advisory. You actually have to do a little more research into that

For Queens specifically, here's should be all of them:

Off Route Tripper:

Q1 (Needs Verification), Q4, Q7, Q8, Q11, Q17, Q21, Q22, Q25, Q27, Q30, Q31, Q36, Q41, Q43, Q46, Q58, Q76, Q77, Q83, Q85, Q88, 

Along parts or all of their regular route:

Q2, Q3, Q20, Q28, Q34, Q38, Q44, Q47, Q54, Q65, Q66, Q111, Q112

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[EastFlatbushLarry]

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

To @EastFlatbushLarry are there any interlines with the 49? I don’t think there is, but do you off hand 100%?

yes. the B41, B44 local & B49 all interline... and have done so for YEARS. there are early trips on the B41 that run to empire, deadhead to empire & bedford and become 49's. also there are 49's that get relieved at flatbush & rogers, then do reliefs at the junction on the 44 local, and vice versa. there are the school trips on the 44 local, as i stated earlier, that appear on the B46 local, B47, B12, B49, B41, etc. the school open 44 local is basically flatbush's wildcat. technically, in my opinion, the B2, B31, B41, B44, B46 local & B49 should be considered true interlines with different header numbers, based solely on the fact that in some way shape or fashion, all the runs mesh together. before I forget, there are at least 2 trips on the B2 & 31 that technically interline with the 41. they come to kings plaza as b2's, leave as 41's with empire destination codes (i believe) but the operator doesn't complete the trip. the operator is relieved at avenue p and goes home. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by EastFlatbushLarry

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

For some, you wouldn't know from the schedule. Some of the MTA BC routes don't use the note (like the Q38). You wouldn't know unless you looked at the guide-a-ride schedules (which are now no longer a thing). 

BTW, there are some school trippers listed on the bus schedules that no longer exist (Q16- apparently the one tripper they had was discontinued years ago, Q58).

Yep... Both of these reasons is exactly why I'm unsure of which routes even have 'em anymore....

[S78 via Hylan]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Off the top of my head, the only Staten Island local route that doesn't have any trippers is the S40/90. (The S42/52 count as one route in the MTA's eyes, and I know the S42 has trippers to/from I.S.61 at Castleton & Brighton, but I'm not sure if the S52 has any). 

The S52 used to have a school tripper in Stapleton. I don’t remember the school..... (it’s not I.S.49, but it’s at some school near the stop right before that Post Office on Tompkins Av).

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is something over the years I've wanted to compile for myself, but never got around to it..... Maybe some of you wondered about this very thing; not sure if this is somehow opening up pandora's box, but how many (or better yet, which) routes in the city even have school tripper(s) ?

For SI I know the S42, 44, 46, 54, 55, 56, 57, 59, 61, 76, 78, and 79 all have school pieces. I'll have to check up to confirm if the 51, 52, and 62 have. 

13 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What are the short turns for the 1?  CIH? 13th Ave? Avenue U? 

 

Starting from KB, Ocean Pkwy is the shortest, then you have 25th Ave, and then 13th Ave. Some buses put Stillwell Ave too but thats one stop away from 25th so technically the same. 

[Ultimategamer12c]

Question  is the B7,B83 still a Tripper at FB because  I remember  seeing them routes use buses from FB but they dont do it any more which I'm sure they got discontinued and on the other websites it still list them being trippers from FB I can kinda say the same for the B47 it's like on and off with FB putting buses on that route as well. Same with the Q54 being a tripper at ENY I remember  they use to now from that time period  they dont do it anymore. I feel like in my opinion  the B7 should go back to being a tripper at ENY like they use too in addition  just add the B20 as a tripper for ENY same with the B60. Now For FP just add the B57 and B60  also the Q39 as trippers.And For SC give them the current routes that run past the depo like the B13 you can also add the B82 ,B83 ,B84 and Q8 as trippers too. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Ultimategamer12c

[NBTA]

8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

For some, you wouldn't know from the schedule. Some of the MTA BC routes don't use the note (like the Q38). You wouldn't know unless you looked at the guide-a-ride schedules (which are now no longer a thing). 

BTW, there are some school trippers listed on the bus schedules that no longer exist (Q16- apparently the one tripper they had was discontinued years ago, Q58).

Exactly, even some of the NYCT Lines don't have the note, the only reason that I knew about the Bx10 school tripper, is because I went to school right in front of the tripper.